AIPA want to increase standards

[neville_nobody]

And a common seniority list!




http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/05/17/1178995304732.html?sssdmh=dm16.260458

[slice]

Common seniority list - I am interested to see how that would be possible with all of the various factions so entrenched - and different Unions and Pilot groups to deal with.

Really is it realistic ? If unity gives the pilot group strength then I am all for it but it would seem a logistical improbability. When they talk of a common list, is this just with Jetstar or are NJS, Eastern, Sunstate, and Jetconnect included in the grand scheme of things?

[permFO]

Experienced Qantas co-pilots can already become Captains with Jetstar so what is the problem for AIPA? Some of the co-pilots in Jetstar have more hours than some of the Captains in Qantas so another AIPA example of the bubble in which they live or; is this another quote taken out of context?

[Keg]

Geez, people keep talking about how we need unity and one pilot group actively starts pushing for it and all of a sudden we're talking about how it can't be done, and it's self interest, etc, etc.

PermFO, I've been an F/O with QF for 9 years and I can NOT go to J*. Further, QF drivers are restricted to 7:20 new commands at J*- that is, commands below the MoU date. I'm not sure what 'bubble' that you're referring to. This isn't about slagging off J* crew. I think you'll find that this is about ensuring that J* and QFLink drivers and QF drivers can pick and choose who they want to go and work for. If you're a J* driver and want to know more then why don't you give them a call on Monday? Alternatively, PM me your details and I'll give you a call and talk you through the five point plan in more depth.

This is what the AIPA release said:

Pilots call on Qantas Board to Commit to Standards
The Australian and International Pilots Association today launched its ‘Professional Standards for Pilots’ campaign with a call on the Qantas Board to ensure Qantas refocuses on the airline’s key asset - its global standing as a world class airline.
The first step towards rebuilding Qantas from the private equity debacle is for the airline’s board to commit to maintaining a world class airline and ensuring that its low cost operation – Jetstar – does not threaten the Qantas Group’s international reputation.
“Pilots have watched with increasing concern as Qantas Management has attempted to shift from world best standards to global minimum standards,” AIPA president Captain Ian Woods said.
“This has seen the move into low cost airlines, attempts to drive down wages and conditions and, now, the push for team-breaking Australian Workplace Agreements.
“It’s time to put an end to the cost-cutting road to growth and join Qantas pilots in building a better airline.”
“We have set out a five point plan for the future of the Australian aviation industry.
This plan involves:
- common conditions across the group
- group opportunity list
- greater commitment to pilot training
- pilot input into safety regulation, and
- allowing pilots an economic stake in the airline’s future.
“AIPA members will commence a political, community and – if necessary – industrial campaign to entrench these standards across Qantas.
“It’s crucial that we immediately commence a constructive dialogue with the Qantas Board and Management in order that we can start to rebuild the airline,” Capt Woods said.

[busdriver007]

PermFO,
AIPA has at least stood their ground. Virgin, Qantas and Jetstar management have shown a complete disdain for career progression for the Aussie pilot and are using it to threaten pilots who want to stay in the industry within Australia. Pilots are simple creatures, they would be fairly satisfied if they see a reasonable scope for progress to the left-hand seat and maybe a chance at some new metal. Take that away and you get their back up. AWA's give more impetus for unity, there is a lot of common ground for AIPA,AFAP,JPC,EPA and VIPA or what every you want to call yourself this week. Let's get together.:)

[permFO]

Keg- Why can't you go to Jetstar under the MOU? You would have to go as an F/O and like a lot of us if you weren't A320 rated ,you would have to fund the endorsement yourself ,but I didn't think there was a barrier. Early on when the MOU was first put together there was an instance where an applicant from QF was not granted LWOP to go to Jetstar so he resigned anyway.

The article that was on the ABC website quoted the AIPA as saying that "there were experienced co-pilots [sic] who could become Captains in Jetstar". Thats the bubble I was referring to, there are experienced people in Jetstar also looking to the LHS.

"Pilots are simple creatures, they would be fairly satisfied if they see a reasonable scope for progress to the left-hand seat and maybe a chance at some new metal."

The above quote from busdriver007 sums up nicely the aspirations of most airline pilots. It also sums up why there will be continuing friction between AIPA and Jetstar pilots. This is not necessarily the fault of AIPA as they have a constituency to look after but they would have no qualms about displacing Jetstar pilots if they could put mainline pilots in the LHS of Jetstar aircraft.

[UTW]

"Geez, people keep talking about how we need unity and one pilot group actively starts pushing for it and all of a sudden we're talking about how it can't be done, and it's self interest, etc, etc."
and
"The first step towards rebuilding Qantas from the private equity debacle is for the airline’s board to commit to maintaining a world class airline and ensuring that its low cost operation – Jetstar – does not threaten the Qantas Group’s international reputation.
“Pilots have watched with increasing concern as Qantas Management has attempted to shift from world best standards to global minimum standards,” AIPA president Captain Ian Woods said.
How does this attitude demonstrate AIPA's genuine desire for unity?

[Angle of Attack]

Left Hand seat? Right Hand Seat? For me I guess Im simpler than simple, mate whatever, the most important thing for me is home life, flying is my job, pure and simple, And my personal life is flat out! and great! The lure of promotion is great in so many ways! :cool: I'm working to oust this damn government out of office! ^^:

And Unity is possible, its hard but no pain no gain! Its time a gradual process is intoroduced to include all group pilots.

Edited because just before I hit reply I deleted a whole paragrah by accident :O

[Keg]

PermFO, thanks for the PM. Expect a call in the next few days.

As for going to J*, despite the fact that I'm eligible in all but seniority in QF for a command, I'm not able to bid for a command in J* if I wanted to throw my hat in the ring- even one of the 7:20 slots which have come up and will continue to come up. I don't 'meet the requirements' that J* have put on them. I meet the requirements for QF but somehow not good enough for J*. I know of many others who are in the same boat.

The same applies for a number of our S/Os who may be interested in F/O slots. They are OK to start F/O training with QF when it comes up but not good enough for J* apparently.

That says a lot to me. Someone in J* doesn't like a particular group of QF pilots; someone in J* isn't confident in upgrading QF drivers to command; or, someone in J* is making it as difficult as possible for any QF driver to come across.

Personally, I'm (mostly) happy on the 744 for the time being and my missus wouldn't dream of me taking a pay cut at the moment for a J* command- A320 or A330- but it doesn't stop me being bitter for those that would like to have the slot.

This is why the common seniority is needed. J* crew can bid to fly the 744, the A330, whatever. QF crew can do likewise. Many benefits in operating the 787 when both airlines have it. I don't see that 'J* Wet Lease' in QF colours is workable in the long term because I don't think they'll find the drivers- particularly if the QF drivers 'hold the line' (perhaps wishful thinking on my part) and don't offer to crew the J*WL when they can't find another 600 drivers to expand.

Just my thoughts and it's late so they're probably a bit muddled.

Talk soon.