Breaking into this sector

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

You´ve all read this kind of post before and I know its hard to give a sensible answer but (drumroll) would someone with say 2000hrs TT (500 multi) all light piston and with a CPL/IR ATPL stand a chance of getting a job. Lets imagine this young fellow to be mid 20´s British and coming from a very respectable flying school...

Speculation comments and thoughts all welcome.

WWW

[Loc-out]

WWWHis chances are as good as anyones. It's not what you know, it's who you know.He should start applying to one or two of the Fractional ownership operators.

[This message has been edited by Loc-out (edited 01 April 2000).]

[Mirage]

I do agree with loc-out, job is mainly only luck, the short way to said that is to be at the good place on the good time.
You never know.

Mirage.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Fractional ownership operators eh? And where would this mythical chap start looking for such things...

WWW

[Robbo2Alpha]

Not Prestwick anyway, they are all N-reg aircraft based there, not even Brits get a chance to fy them they bring in septics to do the flying, that and the frieght operators 5th freedom rights, this country is a bl**dy disgrace.

BTW, many celebs have an interest in these fractional ownerships, so much for buying British.

[Loc-out]

WWW, There are at least two Fractional ownership operators operating in europe.1) Flexjet Europe A/S, Neils Juels Gade 5, DK-1059 Copenhagen K, Denmark.2) Netjets, AV. Descobertas, Galerias Alto da Barra, piso 4 - Oeiras 2780-053-Portugal.Flexjet would be your best bet as their pay higher and have the resources of a large A/C manufacturer behind them. Don't really know what's going on at Netjets, as I know of two highly experienced pilots who applied to them and were deemed unfit for interview. However I believe those two are now on line at Flexjet, on better pay.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Cheers for that.

WWW

[ComJam]

WWW, got into the bizjet side of the industry with just over 2000 total and only 40 odd multi.

Right place right time!

CJ

[HungryPilot]

So which corporates are hiring?

I've sent cv's to Fleyjet, Falcon Europe and Jetclub?

I've 2000tt and 500me. What are they looking for as far as experience?

Flexjet said they'd get back to me. That sounds like a pretty attractive company to work for.

Falcon said they don't have any a/c on the UK register yet and would probably call me for interview in 6 weeks when they do.

And Jetclub said they need drivers with jet time.

Any info????

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It's all fun and games 'til someone gets poked in the eye.

[Daifly]

"Right Place, right time"

(With apologies to Fat Boy Slim)

"Not what you know..."

(I could go on!)

They definately apply in the Exec Charter Side - fractionals? Not 100% sure, but it's the same people hiring in those companies as in charter so it must be roughly the same insofar as the above statements go.

I hope some of that made sense!

[gregory gomez]

so if this mythical person had a twin and had decided on the shotgun approach because he didn't know anyone in the corporate world how would he/she go about grabbing some contact numbers, names, and post info! is that the longest run-on setence you have ever read!

[LAVDUMPER]

WWW,

If I were this chap to whom you are referring, I would consider NetJets (i.e., Executive Jet Aviation) first and Flexjet second. Note that NetJets is ramping up its operation in Europe and adding Falcon 2000s (they have a total of 60 on order for its operations in the US, Europe and Middle East) and Hawker 800XPs. I believe the total Falcons on order for Europe is expected to be 24 (not certain) with a few already operating. I think Netjets already operates Citation VIIs and IIs in the European region with plans to upgrade very soon.

Also, NetJets is extremely successful in the US and is owned by the second richest American - Warren Buffet - he's worth $20 billion. He is very committed to making the operation work in Europe. It is also conceivable that BBJs might join the European fleet eventually - 24 are on order for the US fleet.

Flexjet would also be a great choice. I believe it is ramping up on Challenger 604s and Lear 60s - both very nice.

You win in either case. Best of luck to you!

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In the land of the blind, the one-eyed pilot is king!

[Mach Tuck]

To return to the original question, as well as being in the right place at the right time, pilots' experience requirements throughout aviation are governed by the Laws of Supply and Demand.

When the pilot supply is plentiful requirements may be for several thousands of hours total time, a couple of thousand P1 and a similar amount on an appropriate type. When pilots are scarce however, a freshly printed dog licence will secure you a half decent job.

For what it's worth, I am of the opinion that we're slowly gravitating to the lower end of that spectrum. Good luck!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Guys, Thanks for the replies. I know this is a tedious kind of thread that often appears. I will take your comments on board. It seems to me that you could have a far more interesting career in this sector than by, for example, flying charter 737 around Europe.

I keep seeing (here at Jerez) loads of smart F1 related bizjets and they look mighty fine in my opinion (particularly when viewed from a PA28 RHS!).

Safe flying,

WWW

[bizjet pilot]

I've been working for Executive Jet Aviation (USA) for 6 years. SHort of the ideal airline job at one of the top 7 airlines worldwide, it's one of the best jobs I've heard of.

Send curriculum vitae to:

Miss or Mrs. Lina Vila
Pilot Recruitment
Netjets Europe, Ltd.
Piso 4
Galerias Alto da Berra
Avenida dos Descobertas
2780-053 Oeiras
Portugal

Email: lvila@netjets. com (Mrs. Lina Vila, title not known.)

sgeddes@netjets. com (Capt. Skip Geddes, title: Director of European Operations)

Operations Voice 351 21 446 8484
Operations Fax 351 21 446 0715

Regarding use of Operations Voice line
Use your judgement as this is an operational phone line. Don't stay on long and be willing to get off the phone in a hurry if you are asked.

Flight International dated 26 October 99
NetJets looking for First Officers

Licence EU ATPL
1,500 Pilot Hours Total Time
250 Pilot Hours Multiengine Fixed Wing

I understand there will be pilot interviews in January 2000 to take place at le Bourget airport near Paris, France, at the Flight Safety International simulator and training center there. Interview decisions will be made on the basis of CV and application forms received at NJ Europe headquarters just outside Lisbon (in the town of Oeiras listed above.)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Thanks for that and for all those that have emailed me with helpfull info - you know who you are.

WWW

[Dirtyharry]

in the last 6 months, i've sent netjets 3 c.v's and even followed up with calls on numerous occasions. got almost 2000 hrs, 650 multi, 550 turbine (P1). and i haven't even had a letter back from them!!! anyone else out there with the same sucess rate??? does anyone have a "clue" what they r looking for in f/o's??? and is jet experience a must??

[Dirtyharry]

p.s. Mrs lina vila , in charge of recruitment, but not at all helpfull....
capt skip geddes, "always" in meetings and very difficult to get a hold of.........

[linecheck]

Something worth mentioning about this type of work is the lack of any sort of rostering pattern. You mostly can't plan any sort of home life or make a date to do anything else. Horses for courses. Generally its day flying and to nice places usually. You get to sit around fbo's for ages waiting for the pax who may decide to go somewhere else at a moments notice. The machines are generally whizzy and smart, you make the client feel comfortable and he/she won't want to fly with anyone else and you've got a job for life or until they sell the aeroplane and you find yourself on the market again!
Its a good life but with no security and often no pension etc. But then we don't do it for those things do we!!!!!!!!!

[Mirage]

I have interview with Netjets at le bourget thursday 13 april, I will inform on Pprune of what going on.

Mirage

[Dirtyharry]

Mirage - GOOD LUCk with your interview, hope you get the job.
just out of curiousity, can i enquire about your experience level, i.e., total time/turbine/jet??????

[StressFree]

WWW,
Mail me.

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'Keep the stress down'

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Wilco. Exciting.

WWW

[Sean Dell]

WWW - surely the grass isn't greener already! Is Jerez not living up to expectation?!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hey I am a happy bunny at the moment, sun, sea, cheap vodka/martinis, good flying, lovely Chakitas. However, you´ve got to be going forward all the time in the game, the next recession could be right around the corner...

WWW

[bizjet pilot]

Linecheck, you're quite right in general about air taxi flying but bear in mind that Flexjets and my company Netjets as well as FLight Options and Raytheon Travel Air put together employ about 2,000 pilots at present.

Every last one of them has a published duty schedule. In the case of NetJets and Flexjets, it's published between 30 days and minimum 15 days in advance of the first of the month. Right now I'm on a week on week off schedule, so I can tell you what days I'll be working over 90 days from now.

If they make a mistake and get you home after midnight on your last day they pay you as if you worked the whole next day--which is four hundred usd min, about 800 max depending on salary rate.

Rostering here is as good as at a good airline. The problem is the pay's not as good as the top 8 names. We're working on it.

[KERDUNKER]

WWW ALTHOUGH MANY OPERATORS ARE LOOKING FOR PILOTS I BELIEVE THAT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED ARE DUE TO to JAR OPS AS OPERATORS WHO BEFORE JAN 2000 CARRIED OUT THEIR OWN TYPE RATINGS NOW HAVE TO BE A TRTO(TYPE RATING TRAINING ORGANISATION). SO UNTILL LOTS OF MONEY AND PAPER WORK HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO THE CAA FOLLOWED BY INSPECTIONS AND APPROVAL ONLY RATED PILOTS ARE GETTING A LOOK IN(F.S.I ARE ABLE TO TYPE RATE FOR U.K. CREWS BUT THEY HAVE AT LEAST A SIX MONTH BACK LOG) ON A BETTER NOTE MY COMPANY HAS EMPLOYED A CHAP DIRECT FROM OATS WITH @250 HOURS FOLLOWED BY ANOTHER WITH 14000 HOURS AND GUESS WHICH ONE IS BETTER AT C.R.M. GOOD LUCK IT REALLY IS THE BEST PART OF THE INDUSTRY.

[This message has been edited by KERDUNKER (edited 17 April 2000).]

[StressFree]

Bizjet Pilot,
Are you with Exec Jet that has G4s in the US. If so I've just done a G4 course at SAV with a couple of your guys, Prescott Bond and Charles Miner, great chaps, if you are in touch please pass on my regards.
They will remember us as the English geezers.
Cheers.

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'Keep the stress down'

[linecheck]

BIZJET PILOT, yes I suppose if you look at the big picture that's correct. Over here in little old England most corporate pilots do not enjoy that sort of life. Netjets is a relatively new concept overhere and I have to say a most welcome one.
I guess you suffer from the 5-10 yearly recessions where times are hard. Things in Europe have got better over the last 5 years with a consequent improvement in conditions for most pilots. Even some airtaxi pilots get days off now!
I've moved on a bit from those days myself and now enjoy a small bizjet, but I have to say the roster and conditions at Netjets are sounding very attractive.......
thanks for the input, best wishes.

[Dirtyharry]

hey, howz it going ppl,

just a quick thanks to those to you out there ((you know who U R)) who mailed me regarding the situation with netjets europe. i wont be givvin' up that easily!!! cheeers.......

[bizjet pilot]

Stressfree, Linecheck & Dir-ee 'Arry, aloha.

Nice to now why Net Jets Europe may be slow and disorganized in hiring. RE G4s the Net Jets US operation is one big and one small: the small one is the G4 and G5, based Savanna, the big one is everything else, Citation straight wings to Hawkers to Falcon 2000 to Boeing Biz Jets starting this Fall--that's in Columbus, Ohio (about half way between INdianapolis and Pittsburgh in case that helps?)

Don't know many of the line pilots doing G4 work here, but glad to hear they're good training mates.

It may well be that NJE is badly run. But as long as your office is at the pointy end of a moving airplane, it won't matter much, and they'll get around to fixing things, via firings or "promotion" up. NJ US is much improved, managerially speaking, now vs 6 years ago. ANd the pilot pay just about doubled.

[Dirtyharry]

just hope it doesnt take that long to solve and organise the problems with netjets europe!

[Dirtyharry]

Did anyone recently attend the interviews in paris with netjets, ((april 12,13,14)).
curious to know what it was like, what they r looking for and what they're offering????
greatly appreciate any info....
cheers

[JJflyer]

WWW... (http://WWW...)

You could check the Middle-Eastern operators, Private individuals as well as companies.
Now that you are in Spain Malaga is a good place to start looking as there are some planes based there and it is also a frequent stop for the Saudis.
The equipment used is varied and ranges from piston singles to 747´s with everything in between being on the fleets.

It is not just the hours and experience that matters but being in the right place at the right time and talking to the right person.
Also keep networking as who you know does make a big difference.

JJ

[jsa]

I wonder if anyone has any info on where I can find lists/names of biz jet firms in Asia? Just a directory/list of firms in the biz would be great.

I'm a recent OATS qualified UK ATPL based in HK with 200 odd ME time.

Need a job soon 'cos the bank manager's a comin' a knockin'!!

Thanks guys

[This message has been edited by jsa (edited 30 April 2000).]