Citation 2 vs. KA 350

[Elk McPherson]

The company I work for is getting a serious cash implant this year and part of the program will be the upgrading of the current aircraft (Navajo) to a more speedy & comfortable airframe such as the King Air 350 or even a Citation2/Bravo.

Everybody tells me the K350 is better for bush and rough strip work, except the Cessna fans who say the Citation can do anything the Kingair can and get there 70 knots faster.

I have never flown anything bigger than a Baron but I would be curious to know if any of you learned colleagues can shed a little more light on the subject? Thank You.


[This message has been edited by Elk McPherson (edited 24 March 2000).]

[wondering]

Depends what you are looking for. The 350 has certainly a lot of cabin space and speed for a turboprop.

As far as a jet is concerned, lower end Citations are a thing of the past. Just have your boss sit in a Premier 1 or Beechjet and compare this to a Slowtation. They will never look at a Citation again.

My company was trying a Citation, Lear 31A and Beechjet 400A. Once my bosses sit into all of them they were 100% Beechjet. The passenger comfort is just so much better. The Citation felt like a bottle neck and so does the cockpit. Of course the Lear looks hot and was initially the preferred choice, but then again it´s no competition to the much roomier Beechjet.

Besides, the speed increase on shorter legs doesn´t justify a Citation over a turbo prop at all. Typically, we do Mach 0.76 in our Beechjet just 7-8 kt slower than a Lear 31, but a lot faster than a Citation II.

And no I am not a sale representative for Raytheon. Just compare all planes on the market. It´s my humble opinion that the Premier 1 is by far the best entry level jet on the market. The disadvantage is the long waiting list.

If you are really looking for a fast turbo prop have you ever considered the Piaggio Avanti. I know it´s an exotic but nevertheless exellent plane.

Sorry that I coudn´t be of much help concerning the 350. But then again, it all depends what other performance and cost considerations you are looking for.

[Strider]

Wondering

Your comments about the Citation compared with other jets in its class may be correct, but what about the price!! The Citation is a lot cheaper than most other jets and represents extremely good value for money. A lear for example would cost you way more than a C550.

[Blue Hauler]

“Wondering” needs to do a market analysis as his statements concerning Citations are misleading. We have operated King Airs for the past twenty years and Citations for thirteen years. One type complements the other. If your operation calls for predominantly short sectors, say less than 180 nautical miles, then a turbo-prop will probably provide optimum efficiency. If on the other hand the majority of your sectors are in excess of 150 – 200 nautical miles, then opt for a jet.

Gravel strip operations pose another problem. The BE-350 has four bladed props. Unlike the BE-200 there is no mod for high flotation landing gear. Hence the BE-350 sits somewhat lower and is prone to blade damage. The Citation requires a gravel kit with nose-wheel-spin-up to eliminate ingestion damage. I wouldn’t be happy about regular operation of either type on ‘rough’ gravel unless you owned an instrument/gyro overhaul facility. The equipment on both is highly sophisticated by comparison with piston twins and doesn’t deserve to be shaken to bits.

A new BE-350 is slightly more expensive than a CE-550/Bravo. By comparison the BE-400A is 30% or $US1.5 million dearer. On the used market the Citation will outperform any of them at resale. On the topic of cabin size, the following figures are quoted from Business & Commercial Aviation Planning and Purchasing Handbook:
CE-550B Length – 16.0; Height – 4.8; Width – 4.9.
BE-400A Length – 15.6; Height – 4.8; Width – 4.9.
Obviously the Citation has a larger cabin!

To do a comprehensive assessment would require an evaluation of the operation as well as the aircraft to be applied. We recently upgraded a Citation II to a Citation V. Our assessment included Lear 45 and Beech 400A. It was conducted by pilots from an operational viewpoint as well as cost effectiveness – not by some executive sitting in the cabin. The Citation V has met all our expectations and is just 7% slower than the Beech 400A. Both are approximately the same price. The Citation V reaches cruise level faster, flies further, uses 620 feet less runway and has an internal cabin length of 17.4 feet.

BCA make the following comparison of the King Air and the Citation Bravo:
BE-350: Max p/load – 3210 lb; TAS – 311 kts; Range – 1561 nm: TODR 3300 ft.
CE-550B: Max p/load – 2220 lb; TAS 392 kts; Range – 1538 nm; TODR 3400 ft.

We find the BE-350 an excellent aircraft as we did the CE-550, and do the Citation V. I am not suggesting that the Lear 45 or Beechjet are lesser aircraft – they just didn’t meet our criteria. Besides, the later crop of Citation 500/550/560’s are much improved performers over their counterparts of 25 years ago, a point that seems to have been missed by ‘wondering’.


[This message has been edited by Blue Hauler (edited 25 March 2000).]

[Mirage]

For myself, I flew both for corporate, and I think that it is two very close aircraft but not in the same category.
For the King, it's a costy ( buy ), very reliable, and very cheap to use ( operation ), it's not the perfect airplane for rough trip operation as e^xplain by Blue Hauler, but I don't think the citation will do better, specially due to low wing, and low height above the ground.
About the speed, over Europe it's so congestioned, that if you stay below FL250, you gain time, for a flight of 1 to 2 hours, and at this level there is not many difference.
So we come to the point, what is going to be the use of your aircraft, if it is the fly one or two person, fast and well, don't hesitate buy the C500B, but if it's business and you need to carry some people, take the king air.
Don't forget to tell to your boss, that airplane bost business, so in this case the king may be better.

Let us konw your choice.

Mirage

[wondering]

The price is obviously a factor since Raytheon prices its products somewhat higher than Cessna. I might add that my company got an exceptional deal which was probably a deciding factor.

As far as quality is concerned, I wouldn´t want to trash Citations, but my impression from looking at them is that they are rather ´thin´ aircraft (Could that be a reason for the cheaper price?). Not sure if this still holds true for newer models. Just compare the paint jobs done on both of them. One particlular (hangared) Citation I have seen is less than three years old and the paint is already peeling off. And thanks to the original Japanese design Beechjets are quite sturdy and capable of taking a lot of damage if this should ever be necessary.

As far as speed is concerned, my company upgraded from a King Air 90 to the Beechjet since they figured that the speed advantage of a Citation over a King Air would not warrent the investment. They rather were willing to invest a bit more in a faster jet and pay more for operating costs than purchase a slower plane. And on average our trips are now slightly less than one hour long. But then again how much more speed one wants is a debatable point.

I reckon the ability to fly a Citation single crew and flying in and out of dirt strips is probably a big marketing plus. Another plus is the larger choice of maintenance facilities if one is not living in the States or Europe and the availability of pilots with Citation ratings. However, I wouldn´t bet that entry level Citations (and Beechjets) will be able to hold there current retail value once enough Premier 1s are on the market. From what I hear Raytheon has a real winner there.