Use of Autopilot for CPL Skills Test

[BlueRobin]

Can anyone point me please to the relevant CAA CAP/Standards Doc or TrainingComm that advises on the use of an autopilot for the CPL?

[edymonster]

Yea dont think your allowed to use it, however i was told by someone they may ask you how to use it to make sure you know how to operate it. If you get my drift.

[TurboJ]

Any pieces of equipment that are on an aircraft you will be expected to be able to demonstrate its use.

I know this from first hand experience as I was criticised by a CPL examiner as I hadn't taught the student how to use the autopilot even though he wasn't allowed to use it in the test.

Furthermore, I understand that already, if not very soon, the use of the autopilot in the cruise on the UK IRT will soon be allowed.

[SFI145]

Interesting thread - it is strange that for the first real test that a professional pilot undergoes the A/P is not allowed.
In his or her subsequent career, decision making with the A/P engaged and used to the maximum effect will be the norm.

[matt_hooks]

SFI I agree, if the equipment is there then why should you not be able to use it?

To my knowledge actual use of the AP is not allowed for yout CPL skills test. It is however allowed for certain segments of the IR skills test.

[BlueRobin]

What are the stipulations for the IRT? I think I recall seeing a letter pinned up months ago from the Chief Examiner (TrainingComm?) about this but now cannot remember the details.

[Deano777]

You can only use the autopilot on the IRT during the airways section, but that's cheating, mine was broke during my test, so if I had to fly without it, so should you ;)

[mrx111]

For me it was prohibited to use autopilot for CPL and IR skill test. I asked examiner at the end of exam what should I use and he told me no autopilot, no GPS (except RNAV for IR), but for navigation in CPL skill test I was able to use all basic equipment, like NDB, VOR, ILS, etc...

[TurboJ]

Who needs the autopilot if its trimmed out correctly ?

[Deano777]

You can definitely use it in the airways section of the IR Test, I think this is a rather new introduction? :)

[BlueRobin]

You can only utilise navaids in the diversionary stages of the navex iirc.

[BigGrecian]

The Standards document you are looking for is Standards Document 3 for the Commercial:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_03_A.PDF
and Standards Document 1 for the Instrument initial test
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_01.PDF
This document SHOULD be given to all students as it is for their reference and if your instructor doesn't know what this document is - you should be very worried.
To answer the questions regarding the commerical (Version 7 is valid as listed on the CAA website)
As determined by the Flight Examiner - any relevant items of the class/type rating skill test to include, if applicable:
i. Aeroplane systems including handling of autopilot
During the diversion leg the applicant may supplement visual navigation techniques with the use of VDF, VOR, NDB, DME and/or GPS information. Only GPS raw data (latitude and longitude or range and bearing from a waypoint) may be used. GPS map displays or “GOTO” facilities will not be permitted. The examiner will deny the use of any aid that would allow the applicant to track directly to the diversion destination. If navigation aids are used, the applicant will be assessed on their correct use.
To answer the questions regarding the Instrument (Version 6 from 2004 is the version listed as valid on the CAA website)
Autopilot and flight director systems may not be used during the test. However, if the aircraft is fitted with this equipment, the applicant may choose to carry out the necessary pre-flight checks to establish the serviceability of the system, it must then be disengaged. The electric trim system however may be used as prescribed by the aircraft flight manual and must be tested. Altitude alerting systems and speed bugs are permitted.

Remember, all documents in the UK are guidance only, and the source document should always be referred to - but these docs were current according to the CAA on posting.

[Deano777]

Well that's worrying then because I was even told we could use it in the airway by my IRE

[Keygrip]

You're all going back to the theory of expecting consistency from the CAA.

They SAY one thing, they WRITE another, they actually MEAN something completely different.

[Vee One...Rotate]

AP for CPL/IR tests? Behave yourselves - where's the pride in your handling and multitasking prowess? ;)

V1R

[dwshimoda]

Since January 1st this year you are allowed to use the AP in the cruise section of the IR test. However, I've been told that the examiner will not allow it to be engaged until he has seen you hold height and heading, and very possibly make the first turn.

DW.

[FlyingForFun]

It is true that autopilot is allowed to be used for the cruise portion of the IR. I have seen this, in writing, from the CAA.

The relevant document is somewhere at work, and I'll try to dig it out tomorrow so that I can quote it word-for-word. Apologies in advance if I can't find it, though, because we've just moved office, and a lot of stuff is still in boxes.

In the mean time, this post will bring the thread back to the top of the page!

FFF
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[DownloadDog]

I was TOLD to use the AP whilst in the airways phase of my IR by Exam 01! This happened in March 07.

[Ropey Pilot]

Interesting thread - it is strange that for the first real test that a professional pilot undergoes the A/P is not allowed.
Not that strange - the autopilot fails on my Airbus sim every 6 months :} (the engines seem to as well mind you-both of them last time:eek: )

I took my driving test in a manual - if I took it in an automatic that is all I could drive unless I retook my test.

Why stop at the autopilot - GPS has been mentioned. You could even get an Aircraft with flight directors and program the whole flight with a Cat 3 autoland:uhoh:

Additional aids will come to you eventually - but we need to make sure that we can fly without them. If they were guarenteed to never fail we would be out of a job and ATC would control aviation from the ground - but that is a different thread.

[FlyingForFun]

I have in front of me copies of two letters from Pat Lander, Chief Flight Examiner. Although they are not in the public domain, there is no indication that they are private, and I think they were sent to all schools, so I hope Pat won't mind me quoting small parts of them which are relevant.

On 15th Aughust 2006, Pat wrote about some proposed changes to the IR skills test. On the subject of GPS, he says:
Applicants intending to suppliment "conventional" navigation information with GPS derived information will be expected to check the validity of the GPS aviation database and the integrity of the received GPS signal prior to flight.

Whenever it is intended to use GPS derived navigation information, it must either be crosschecked against another source of navigation information prior to use or used with discretion.
As for autopilot, he says:
CAA IR examiner will permit the (limited) use of an autopilot on test..... The autopilot may only be used during the en-route phase and as indicated by the examiner, after the applican has demonstrated manual flying skills..... For practicable purposes, this will generally be after the applicant has established en-route, at the planned cruising level, on a drift corrected heading to maintain the planned track to the next turning point/destination.
There is lots more information in this letter, and I'm sure your IR school will have a copy which they can show you.

On 11th December 2006, he wrote again to say that the proposals of his previous letter would be implemented on January 1st 2007. The Notes to Candidates document has not been updated since these changes were made.
I hope I haven't broken any rules (either PPRuNe, or more likely, CAA) by posting these quotes, but I don't think I have, and I hope that quotes from written documents will close the question of whether these tools are allowed or not - but I won't hold my breath!

FFF
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[BlueRobin]

Thanks for digging through your boxes, FFF :cool: