Citation Rating

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Not wanting to go too much into the pro's and con's of paying for a type rating (which gets a frequent airing on the pages of Pprune), where would be a good place to get a rating for a Citation (to go onto a UK licence).

Having seen a few Citation positions come up over the past few weeks, is the BizJet world likely to take on type rated, but not commercial experienced pilots?

[Daifly]

I think you'll find the problem is that there isn't a UK TRTO (Type Rating Training Org) around yet - not that I know of anyway.

Unfortunately cos the CAA took so long to introduce JAR-OPS, they never got as far as deciding the TRTO procedures until later on... As a result everyone's behind sked trying to set up TRTO status.

Dai.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

That's what I understand it to be, so hopefully having a type rating will put you ahead of the game when it comes to getting a job. I don't suppose that it's as easy as going to the US to get one, is it?

[PURPLE PITOT]

I uderstand that one of the citation operators at Glocester is now, or in the process of becoming approved. Not sure which one though. Sorry i can't be more help.

[Chilliwilli]

Hi there, call Pete Turner of Executive Aviation Services, Gloucestershire Airport. 01452 857006.
You could go to Flight Safety in Witchita and do an initial course and put it on an american licence then you could in theory fly an cayman or n reg citation.There are quite a few about. Depends what you would like to do. Obviously if you would like to work for a uk aoc operation then you need to put the type on your uk licence. Talk to PT.
Also I believe Atlantic at Coventry can do it, or are about to.
Good luck its a jungle out there, there are no short cuts. The work is great fun but don't expect to be able to plan a life!!! Just fly,fly ,fly---wait wait wait.If you get a suntan in the process, great!! I love it.

[This message has been edited by Chilliwilli (edited 05 July 2000).]

[StressFree]

Flight Safety are now an approved TRTO and can therefore provide courses for ratings on a CAA licence. The only extra item required by the CAA to complete the course and get the ticket are 4 take-offs and landings in the actual aircraft, not a sim.
I've recently done a G4 course at Flt.safety
and the CAA gave me a rating, so the system does work. Try calling Mark Chapman at Flt.Safety in Wilmington, he deals with JAA (CAA) approved courses. It will probably be cheaper than doing the rating here in the UK.


------------------
'Keep the stress down'

[Capt Ted Striker]

Assuming you can get a type rating in a bizjet, I assume you still have to get an MCC certificate to put it on your UK license?

[Chilliwilli]

Yes thats true - if the CAA have finally decided that the Citation is a multicrew aircraft. I think they have, as they gave me an MCC exemption letter on the strength of having a multi crew aircraft already on my licence ( CE500 series ) but I believe on the American and Cayman register the 500 and 550 can be flown single crew if one was crazy enough to do it.
keep it in the chill box.

[Shanwick Shanwick]

Chilliwilli,

The C500/501 were always single crew aircraft when operated privately on the UK register as they're below 5700kgs.

I operated both varieties single crew and although it got a little busy into the major european cities at times you got used to it and I rarely had any problems.

It got a bit tricky when the autopilot went u/s though.

Brgds

[dk-DP]

I thought 500/550 were two-pilot certified, and 501/551 single pilot certified ? Then, the 500 and 501 would be almost similar, and the 550/551 the same. And the difference between these pairs would be the engines.

But this is really funny business:

1) You can have a "co-pilot only" rating on a single pilot airplane. You cannot fly it alone (a plane with no captain ?), yet it is not regarded as multi-pilot experience, as you could have flown the plane alone. Sorry, CAA/JAA, syntax error in line 2, contradiction, endless loop, itererative error, infinite loop. Program halted.

2) Many of these 500/501 and 550/551 cases are funny - often, the difference between single and multi pilot aircraft can be a switch changed from the left side to the right - or vice versa. Same aircraft in the end anyway. To my knowledge a 500 can be changed to a 501, and back again, same for 550/551. By installing a kit and reregistering.

3) Aircraft that are single pilot certified, but must be operated commercially as multi-pilot (mainly FAR/JAR 23 commuter aircraft - 10 to 19 pax seat *certification*) - these still count as single pilot aircraft.

4) MCC course is now - according to rumour control - not needed if you have minimum 500 hours on approved AOC in two pilot ops - as in 3) above.

[StressFree]

Evening Shanwick,
Hows it going? Nostalgia about the old days in a C500? Honest answer required - Would you rather be back in the Citation or doing what youre now doing ?????? You have 5 seconds to think about it.
All the best.


------------------
'Keep the stress down'

[KERDUNKER]

Chauffair at EGLF have had TRTO status for around 3 months now on Citations,Lears and the HS125

[A Very Civil Pilot]

And the follow-up queastion is, if I get a rating, what are the prospects like for employment?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

I just thought that I'd resurrect this to see if anyone can add anything more. It looks as if £14,000 is the going rate in the UK. How does this equate with earnings?

[This message has been edited by A Very Civil Pilot (edited 06 October 2000).]

[Century]

In the case of SP operations, the SP designation does not really count for much, most countries accept the Citation 500, Citation1 and Citation 2 and Citation 5, as SP aircraft regardless of the designation.

The best dollar deals at present are in Australia where the dollar is trading at Pacific Peseo level, try Australasion Jet at Essendon Airport or General Flying service at Moorabbin Airport.

[spooky]

Stress Free is quite correct about Flight Safety.
The benefits of doing the course in a sim are quite apparent after you've actually experienced some emergencies. There are things that you just don't want to happen in the real aeroplane but can be graphically demonstrated in the sim, and thats the place to learn how to deal with them.
I would suggest you would be far more useful if your rating is obtained in a simulator and finished off with a few landings in the real thing.
Good luck.

[JJflyer]

Just finished my CE500 Type in US. Indeed it is certified under FAR/JAR25 and requires 2 pilots for operation, not by regulations but by type-certificate.
Cost me about 5500 USD with hotels rentalcars food and tickets.

JJ

[mutt]

Where did u do it JJ?

I did one in Van Nuys in August.

Mutt

[JJflyer]

Mutt old boy... seems that we come close to meet but not quite close enough...
I have been know to do some flying with a "mad Greek" in the LA basin... hahahaha

JJ