My Plan

[Newbe]

Firstly Hi all!!

Been lurking too long, thought it was time to pipe upo and ask some questions!

I'm 20 years old after after 5 long years and countless rubbish jobs I've finally managed to relieve the bank manager of enough cash to go flying-GREAT!!

So heres the thing, I have enough to pay for the full course at OATS,which is my preferred option, but It will mean spending every single penny I have ( and some that I don't!!!) and even then I can only just afford it.

So I thought about doing it this way:
150hrs PPL & IMC at PanAm
Full Time ATPL Groundschool, CPL/IR & MCC at OATS then a FI Rating.

If i go the modular way I will have alot more peace of mind, because I won't be putting all my eggs in one basket I'll still have reserve cash in case I need it. Also I think that instructing would be a great way to start off and would probobly teach me morein one day than the full time course would in a year!! I would very much like to do it.

But everyone I ask seems to say the same thing which is that if you can go to OATS Full Time do it, but I'm just not sure that their reputation alone is worth all the extra cash


SO whaddaya think?

[Flypuppy]

If you can afford it do an integrated course go for it, but why just look at only OATS? have you checked what the other Ab-Initio schools can offer?
They may offer something similar for less and at the end of the day I really don't think which school you went counts for a huge amount, despite what the marketing departments may want you to believe. As long as you have the requisite bits of paper and ticks in the boxes, from what I can gather talking those in the know, with the right personality and a huge amount of good luck you should be on the right track.

[JT8]

Hi there folks,

I'm currently playing around around with a few ideas in my head how to spend the next year or so. I graduated in aero eng in july, and was hoping to apply to every sponsorship available. If unsuccesful, I was hoping to go through the modular route starting mid 2002.

Nearly all graduate jobs are now commencing NEXT september, so I missed the boat whilst holding out for sponsorships :( . I currently have a PPL and 70ish hrs, and am looking for work.

Is the following a reasonable plan?

1) Apply for graduate jobs now, intending to start Sept 2002.
2) Spend the time between now and then completing IMC and ATPL's.
3) Once started on the graduate job fly regularly to build hours.
4) Look out for any sponsorships that DO appear (I realise having done the IMC and ATPL's I'd be over qualified for most)
5) As things pick up in the aviation industry (1-2years time?)complete CPL/IR/MCC in a one block.

Doing it that way, I get to make a start towards my licence ASAP :) and earn the money to pay for the latter stages (no loan needed). However, I realise from start to finish I may have taken 3-4 years to complete the licence. Also there will be a gap between finishing the ATPL's and starting the CPL/IR/MCC.

Does the plan seem sensible? Or should I go back to the drawing board? I recall a thread where www said do things in one block - did you mean the entire licence or just CPL/IR/MCC?

Any help appreciated!
A confused JT8 :confused:

[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: JT8 ]

[JT8]

Anyone?!? Or was it that bad a plan!? :confused:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Yeah thats a reasonable plan for now. As good as any other I can think of...

Good luck,

WWW

[Crowe]

JT8

go for it mate - sounds similar to what I'm doing. Just watch out for the 3 year time limit on doing the ATPL theory exams until finishing your CPL/IR/MCC. If I understand the regs correctly, you would have to redo them if you couldn't finish by then.

Sounds like you should be able to finance it all in 3 years though (always good advice to have a degree), by which time (we all hope) someone will be hiring again.

Good luck

[InFinRetirement]

I agree with WWW JT. Not much to say in addition to your own thoughts really. Just don't give up.

Good luck,

IFR

[spitfire2002]

This is my plan at present (subject to change at any given moment!)

I am currently working towards my PPL (A) in the UK (part time). I intend to complete this here then go on to study for the ATPL theory exams (distance learning, as I am working full time to pay for all this, and intend to right to the end). After completing these (I make it sound so easy! I did say plan?) I am hoping to go off abroad (which ever FTO fits the bill, cross that bridge when I come to it) to complete my CPL/IR and QFI rating. I then hope like so many of us to get a job as a flying instructor, but I would at this stage be snatching off arms for any aviation job that comes my way (crop dusting, tugging, cargo, nutters that jump from aircraft, ect).

So what is my question, well I was wondering does anyone out their know off any FTO’s abroad that will give you a FI job after you complete their CPL/IR and QFI courses? I know this may be a stupid question but I am sure I did see such a thing a while ago in one of the mags.

Also what is stopping me once I have a (f)ATPL (low hours) from going off and buying a used aircraft with some friends and starting my own charter business (work permitting of course) ?

I know that I will get the answers from you guys; thanks in advance all feedback is appreciated.

[scroggs]

I don't know about FTOs that will give their graduates instructing jobs; if I were a potential customer I would want the FIs to have somewhat more experience! However, they may be out there.

Your charter idea will prove to be a lot more complex than you imagine. I recommend you contact the CAA and ask them about setting up an airline - as that is what you are proposing. You will find that the requirements for an AOC, insurance, engineering, etc. are extremely rigorous, and likely to be well beyond the means and abilities of a newly-graduated fATPL! But you could try it in one of the less-regulated parts of the world. Others have, and some have succeeded, but it'll be bloody hard work!

[spitfire2002]

Scroggs,

Many thanks for your feedback. I did not realise that it would be that complex to start up with one aircraft and do pleasure flights. I guess I will have to look at some other area. Seemed like a nice way to earn a living, flying holiday makers around say the Caribbean islands.

Thanks for the pointers
:)

[Send Clowns]

The way to start one-aircraft pleasure flights is to gain a flight instructor rating. Then you sell introductory lessons. Since you don't require an AOC for flight instruction all you will require is insurance and maintenance suitable for aircraft hire, and good publicity in a crowded market. For the latter a draw such as unusual/classic aircraft type may help.

[spitfire2002]

Thanks for the info Send Clowns, looks like there is hope for my idea after all, but could I still sell them as "pleasure flights" to hotels ect but officially they would be “introductory lessons”?

Nice idea about the unusual type, hadn’t thought about that at all. I am looking at this obviously for the future but I am very interested in getting some info now as this is ultimately what I want to do with my CPL/IR when I get it. It’s as much a lifestyle choice as a lifelong ambition to fly.

Many Thanks.
:)

[FRIDAY]

In response to your question regarding FI position with FTO, I believe EFT in fort pierce offer you a job if you train with them.
To what degree you can trust this I don't know but it seems genuine enough, give them a call and see.

[spitfire2002]

Many thanks Friday, I will check it out now. Any idears about my last post re "introductory lessons" sold as "pleasure flights" to the hotels abroad ?

Cheers

:)

[Whirlybird]

PiperPilot,

Yesterday I was going to post and suggest something very similar to your new plan, but I decided you probably wouldn't listen. I'm glad I was wrong.

Changing a life plan and admitting you were wrong to thousands of people takes guts, and maturity too I might add. And I sympathise with the addiction to aviation taking over your life - been there, still am, and spent a fortune on helicopter flying, but I'm a lot older than you and it was my money to spend (or waste, as some might say :D ). And you have age on your side; I don't. Different situations need different solutions.

Anyway, lots of luck! Bristol Ground School is good - if I managed to pass the ground exams, they must be. :eek:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

If you are looking for a FI job locally i.e. Leeds then it would be a huge advantage if you had done your training at that FTO. Be nice, make the tea, smile a lot and that is your foot in the door post FI rating....

Good luck,

Looks like a viable plan to me.

WWW

[foghorn]

Sounds like an much better plan to me.

Your chances of success just increased many fold.

Best of luck, mate, and hopefully see you in the crew room in a few years time...

cheers!
foggy.

[The Boy Lard]

As someone who was quite harsh regarding your "previous" attitude I have to say credit where credits due (no pun intended).

Much respect for changing your plans.

Good luck

TBL:D

[monkeyboy]

That's more like the piperpilot I remember from various postings a few weeks back!

Good luck to you PP. A contingency plan like yours shows maturity and forward thinking - vital when you're hurtling along at 250kts and it all goes t*ts up! [:)]


MB - Fellow Tyke but "down sarf" at present enjoying their Shandy!

[bumpfich]

I really do applaude you, as Whirly has already said "guts and maturity". Remember this time, because in a few years there will be another 17 year old with the same ambition as you, who could do to accept some of your new found "experiance".

I wish you the very best of luck - lets hope we both make it to the crew room in the not too distant future! Keep us all up to date with your progress on Pprune, I feel we might have another "This is how I did it..." in a couple of years time.

Oh, one more thing - I am sure you already have this in your "experiance" bag (putting this one in the bag "cost" you quite a bit!) - keep your password to yourself :D

[VFE]

Sorry folks.
Mate logged on to the site via my pooter last night. His idea of a joke. Have to say I can see the funny side but he was rather sneaky with his use of my log-on name. Just asked him why he didn't call everyone a bunch of so and so's but he said he wanted to be more cunning. i.e; get me into bother!

Thanx for the understanding. Sorry to Piper, guess you must've thought I was a real moody/ loony git!

VFE.

PS: Cannot seriously go through every forum so if anyone see's a spurious post in my name could they please let me know? Thank you.

PPS: One thing though: who is Dash-8? Mate reckons it's this Piper dude. Any views folks?

[Lucifer]

Just search for your own username VFE.

[steamchicken]

On the other thread, there must be so many responses to possible dodgy posts that perhaps WWW ought to take a peek at it?

[D McQuire]

Well it all just goes to show one of the many values of the PPRune wannabee forum.

I think PP can and probably has taken a great deal from these postings.

[Just another student]

Good luck Ben. After reading your original plan, I was kind of shocked at the level of risk(no reflection on your ability-PPL at 17 well done!), that you and your family were about to undertake! Take your time, earn some money (the hard way) as it shows that you have dedication and determination, do not lose sight of your goal (you'll know what I mean when you start studying Aviation Law for your ATPL!):D

[G-SPOT is Back]

All the best Ben - can heartily recommend LFS for the IR did mine their struggled with it but they got me through.

Dont think everybody was getting at you, just your initial post created a lot of feeling

Once again best of luck, modular is the way

[scroggs]

I hope it goes well for you, Ben. Keep us up to date on your progress.

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

OK. Here we go. My attempt to try to obtain all of the information required to get from PPL to a frozen ATPL in one topic.

At the minute, most of the information seems to be from various different posts and its all getting a bit hazy.

I have begun (thanks god, at last) my training for the PPL at Newcastle Aero Club). I hope to apply for a scholarship to help towards the hours from the Air League soon and then complete my PPL ASAP.

Then i am a bit confused as to what to do next.

Can i begin the theoretical training for the CPL or do i need the flight time first?

Say i can do the CPL exams and then the hours, i can get my CPL and then hopefully do the distanct learning ATPL scheme.

Does the same apply to this as it does to the CPL. By this i mean can i do the ATPL exams and then work towards the flight hours or do i need the hours first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[GonvilleBromhead]

PWP,

If you search for this it's generally been well covered, but as you say, it may read clearer all in one thread.

There's a few convoluted points in your post, hopefully this may clear it up a bit, and I'm sure others will help too.

Basically your (modular) route to fATPL (in chronological order) is:-

1. PPL

2. You can either a) hour build to 150 hours which will be needed to start your CPL flight training later on or b) do the theory by either full time study or distance learning. The order you do the hour building or the study is your choice.

Be careful as to which theory papers you want to study. You mention CPL theory at some point. This is NOT sufficient for the airlines. If you want to be an airline pilot, you need to study for the ATPL theory (14 papers). You need your theory papers passed BEFORE you can commence CPL flight training, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

3. If you now have the PPL, 150 hours and your ATPL theory passed, you can now undertake the flying training to obtain your CPL.

4. Now in possession of ATPL theory and your CPL, you can now do your IR. Having passed the IR you are now in possession of your fATPL. Bingo !

Not forgetting your MCC for the airlines.

Hope that makes sense.


:)

[Gin Slinger]

If you still feel you need to consult an expert, ask Piperpilot, I'm sure he'll have some words of wisdom for you ;) ;) ;)

[IanBowden]

You do your PPL at Newcastle?? WOW, me too.

Cant help you with your question mind, I dont have a clue how I am going to do the next step either, as always money comes into play :)

Regards

Ian
Co. Durham

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

If you dont mind me asking, how old are you Ian?

[GonvilleBromhead]

Hmm, know what you mean Gin..without wanting to sound harsh, there is a bit of a trait forming throughout various threads.

I'd never discourage anyone from posting any (constructive) advice, however individuals may want to think about their 'target audience' before dispensing the advice, somewhat in a cocky manner, given experience.

Food for thought eh, PP ???

Good luck to you PP, but please think.

:)

(spelling edit)

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

Im 16 and im thinking of joining the RAF as a flight operations assistant. I was thikning of a career plan. Would this work:

Join RAF as flight ops assistant, work way up to air traffic controller. Gain money to pay for licences and then once i have all of my licences apply to an airline.

Would this work or do i need a levels in order to become a pilot.

Any helpm appreciated

[scroggs]

You do not, currently, need A-levels to become a commercial pilot, though you do if you want to become a military one.

Your plan has a couple of snags. Firstly, the RAF doesn't like being used as a stepping-stone to other employers, and will reject you if it suspects that might be the case. Secondly, the progression from assistant to controller is long and difficult. The time scale for reaching controller (you must be at least a Senior NCO for this), then saving for and doing your licences is going to be in the order of 10 years or more - and you will have done many exams on the way! You may also have found your way into a war or two - I'm not joking, and you do need to think about that possibility. However, as long as you are aware of these issues and are prepared for them, then go for it. The RAF offers a great life and I'm sure you would enjoy it whatever the eventual outcome.

Best of luck!

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

Is it possible to gain A levels and a degree while in the RAF?

[James Telfer]

Hi, I'm a little more 'senior' than the original poster here - I'm 32, former army officer with an interest in becoming a commercial pilot. I have a few hours flying experience but basically would need to start from scratch. I have found some training providers that run these courses but wondered if there was a good source of lists of differing schools anywhere? The section in Pilot magazine online is currently down...

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

anyone got any info qabout the a levels and degree in service or any other info about the career plan?

[MJR]

Yes you can do A levels in the RAF as well as BTEC and OU. But why not just go to college and do them full time and then apply for some of the sponsorships?

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

I dont want to stay at my local college. Its really bad. The teachers expect you to know everything. I dropped maths because they expected me to know the stuff and the same goes for physics. In the RAF i can gain great experience, and im fascinated with the job.

If i wanted i could do a levels etc.. later on in the RAF

Could i go in the RAF, and get a levels etc... and gain great experience and then join airlines in the future or even become an RAF pilot in the future.

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

decisions, decisions

[NickFinch]

Hi there PWP,

I'm slightly worried by your post. I do not mean to sound patronising (not my intention at all) but I feel you need to think hard about your career choices before you decide upon anything.

Do you really want to be in the RAF? You are effectively putting your life on the line. If this does not put you off - great. IMHO the RAF is one of the most fantastic organisations in the world and presents its employees with great career opportunities. But be realistic about why you are there - to fight and protect, and you will potentially be putting your life in danger.

My real point is that you should not go into the RAF in order to gain qualifications. This is missing the point. You should go into the RAF because you believe your country is worth protecting, and because you want to be part of a team. Job satisfaction and academic qualifications are all there down the line - but they are secondary to your job.

Enough of my polemic. Moving on to more mundane matters. Do you really want to leave school/college with no A-levels? It may not seem like much fun now, but having those little pieces of paper opens a whole new world of opportunity. You could go on to university from there, or after A-levels you may have already definitely found your vocation.

It may be worth thinking of going into higher education. Think about what a degree could do for your job prospects. Furthermore university is a great place in which to develop and mature in a 'safe' environment, and it need not be expensive. Just think about it - but you will need those A-levels to get there!

Here's what I did, and maybe it'll help you decide what you want to do, which is the most important factor at the end of the day:

Did A-levels (hard work because I wasn't that motivated, and I'm not academic!)

Was persuaded by a RAF careers liaison officer that I should not go directly into the RAF, but should go to uni and apply for sponsorship (now there's a thought!)

Went to university (had a great time. Met loads of people, got a good degree, more importantly met my fiancee. And also got a University Bursary to go into the RAF Regiment. Got paid to go to uni and drink beer - wasn't too good at the latter, but I tried!)

******ed my knees playing football. Ouch. Got discharged from the RAF. S**t!

But with a shiny new degree got a job in London! (Herein lie two extra morals: 1) Academic qualifications - most notably A-levels and/or a degree - make life a lot easier when certain avenues are closed to you. 2) Don't rush into a job because it sounds good (in my case consultancy - it sucks! Hence my late-night surfing on pprune!).

Hope this helps, and good luck! :D

[whisperbrick]

piperpilot,

get some a levels, it cannot help and also proves you can study and absorb knowledge at a higher level;also gives you a shot at the BA sponsorship and many others,and it will give you some thinking time.

i went into the airforce (briefly) as i was offered a non flying officer role when they decided my eyesight wasn't up to fast jets.I would advise against this:if your heart is set on being a pilot you will always be frustrated looking at the aircraft:a bit like being at a wedding and always being the best man, never the groom......!

And the airforce demands 110%, if your heart really isn't in it you will get found out fast.

If i was you I would A)get A levels, preferably in science then B)have a go at all sponsorship options or B1)try and join the air force to fly (bearing in mind you have a chance of dying there)
then C)if neither works look to get a reasonably well paid job and sponsor yourself.


Just my opinion of course.....

[BlueRobin]

The Plan!
=======

Why?

Right, I have an ambition to be go semi-pro, i.e. weekend instructing. This will improve my piloting, improve chances and fun and I like to teach. However, if after a few thousand hours, this leads indirectly to a rhs seat on a 73, then so much the better!

Money?

Well, what with the lack of flying, christmas bonus and not-so-good pay increase, I am saving money at a heck of a rate.


So, here's my plan. In the interests of peer review, I'd be interested in your thoughts and ideas.


Medical
======

Number one priority is a Class One medical. I hold a Class Two btw.

budget - £200?

ATPL Ground school
==============

Full-time or distance learning? I'm lucky to live a 10 minute drive from Coventry Airport. This gives me a choice in either camp. Namely full-time at ATA, or a DL course at Atlantic Flight Training.

The DL/FT debate boils down to this. Can I afford to take six months off work? On the other hand, will I have enough study time if I keep working (I hold a job that utilises very little time). Yet, a FT course will ultimately offers better tuition, support and understanding hence a better chance of passing.

Gut feeling is that DL is better. Course is cheaper. Continued employment saves more money. Here I would be interested to know the quality of the course material for Atlantic, say compared to Oxford AT or Bristol.

Typically for a DL ATPL, how may hours a week of study is required?

One purely political point is with my employer. DL school requires 4 weeks off. I get 3 weeks leave entitlement. For the extra week, I would have to be honest and admit why. They will give it to me but will twig this. When I proceed onto the practical courses, I shall have to leave the company. I'm worried how they will take this*.

*personally speaking, if I didn't work for two months, they wouldn't really be over-stretched - perhaps a bargaining chip to use? :D

Budget - £2000

Time - 6 months


Build Hours
=========

Need 50. I know two owners who will let me fly for £50pcm, £50/hr.

Budget - £2600, plus (problem!) 1-2 weeks off :eek: or do as-and-when.


Practical courses
============

Here, I should at around forthcoming Nov-Jan period. A Florida course doesn't necessarily save you an awful lot of cash, but offers plenty of good wx.

I see European FT in FL offer discounted courses (approx prices).

#1. CPL (A), MEP, FI(R) - £7,350
#2. CPL (A), MEP, FI(R), IR(A) - £15,385

Now, IR is not a requirement is my book, but nice to have, esp. with cash in el pockey. Also overcomes ATPL expiry problem.

I'm adding a good min. 30% for costs and retests.

Case 1
Budget - £10,000/ 6 weeks

Case 2
£20000 / 10 weeks

*I may also take the 2-week conversions to FAA.


After
====

Find new IT job. Save. Let funds recover. Instruct weekends. Worry about currency :)


So whaddya think?

[FlyingForFun]

Not a bad plan. A few comments though.

Initial class 1 medicals cost £400 when I did mine - so a little more than you budgeted.

Ground school - you are quite right in all your assumptions. The only thing you've got wrong, I think, is to concentrate on Conventry for distance learning. If you are forced to go the distance learning route, then one of the advantages of this route is that it doesn't matter where the school is located - it's distance learning!

Most distance learning courses will require 6 weeks off work - two weeks for the brush-up, one week for the exams, all multiplied by two because you have to do that for each module. If time off work is a real problem, look at LGU - you can get away with 3 weeks off with their course (one week brush-up and two days for the exams, for each module). Consider why no one else does the brush-up in this space of time if you look into this option though. Another option is to do module 1 this year, and module 2 next year, thus spreading your time off across two holiday years.

As for which ground school is best (it's not just the quality of the course material which counts, there are other factors - but that's being discussed on a couple of other threads at the moment so I won't go into details here), only you can decide that, because only you know what suits you best. Look at all of the schools, and make up your own mind.

You asked how long to spend on a distance learning course each week. How long is a piece of string? If you work full-time on your studies, you'll be able to pass the exams in a similar length of time to the residential course. If you can only spare a couple of hours a week, it'll take much longer. I usually spend around 15 hours a week, and it will have taken me exactly 12 months assuming I pass all my Mod 2 exams in Feb.

Have you got an IMC rating? I'd imagine that would be useful for flight instructing if you don't have an IR - it'll let you teach above a cloud layer, and you can even do some real IMC work for the instrument appreciation part of the course. Plus you'll be able to teach the IMC course later on, with more training.

Hour-building... if you only need 50 hours, then why not just fly at weekends? Since you say it will take you the best part of a year before you're ready to do the CPL, if you fly 2 hours a week you should make the minimums easilly, even allowing for the British weather.

Good luck!

FFF
---------------

[Bodie]

Class One costs £400. Budget £450 - you need to travel there.

ATPL ground school. £2000 budget accurate. Time factor should be more like 12 months.

In terms of your leave requirements - you say you get a total of 21 days. Bristol have 2x2 week brush ups and say 3 days for exams after each brush up. I plan to take brush up & exams one from this years holiday entitlement. Then brush up & exams two from next years - this leaves plenty of holiday left to take a break from it all - rest is important. Plus you don't have to admit to work that you intend to leave in 12-18months hence miss out on a pay rise!

Remember the CAA charge £700 to sit the ATPL exams. Also budget for the brush up course & exam time.

Hour building - looks good providing you only need an extra 50hrs to take you to 150 total time.

For the CPL/IR, I believe that if your going to fly in the UK, train in the UK. Others may disagree. Therefore budget a CPL/IR/FI of £20-£22k for UK training.

If you don't want an IR then less 10k off that figure. It might be worthwhile taking an IMC as the last post mentioned, or a Single Engine IR to save some cash. South africa is pretty cheap as another alternative - there are some JAA approved schools down there.
Add a good contingency on top of this.

Bodie

[FlyingForFun]

Bodie,

You say that Bristol "say 3 days for exams after each brush up." Where did you get this from? The exams are spread over 4 days - Monday to Thursday. You could possibly get away with taking just 3 days off work if you take 1/2 days on those days when you've only got a morning exam, for example... but I wouldn't recommend it. And you'll probably need the Friday off work to recover from the anxiety, too! :D (LGU do all the Monday/Tuesday exams in Mod 1, and all the Wednesday/Thursday exams in Mod 2, I think, which is why you need less time off for the exams with them than with anyone else.)

I think BlueRobin already has quite a few hours, which is why he only needs 50 more to meet the requirements???

Apart from that, I agree with everything you say - apart from the training in the UK bit, which is open for debate.

FFF
---------------

[Bodie]

Hi FlyingForFun

I reconed that it was about 3 days for exams, but if youre telling me its more then I'll happiliy agree- reduces some stress for me!

As for the hour building thing, I've reconsidered & updated my post since.

As for the UK training - if he's only planning on instructing then going abroad is probably fine - hence I suggested Sth Africa.

Cheers
Bodie

[BlueRobin]

Thanks D & B.

Hmm, Sud Afrika. Which schools do JAA CPL/IR/FIs?

[Bodie]

try http://www.ftc-sa.com/

You could have a CPL/IMC/Multi/FI(R) for just under £10k.

No JAA IR listed tho

[FlyingForFun]

I don't believe there's anyone in SA who can do JAR CPL training any more, unfortunately. The last school (I think it was FTC) had their approval removed not too long ago.

I'm still hoping to find an excuse to get out there and do some flying myself, though.

FFF
--------------

[buzzc152]

I reckon this is the best piece of advice I can offer (and I think most will agree this is true) : What ever your final budget is add 15-20 %.

Don't plan everything on minimums i.e passing IR in 50 hours, or PPL in 45 hours etc. Add 10% or somthing to the minimums.

Remember schools, FBO's etc will usually quote price for the mins.... or not include VAT, or not include skill test fees or something !! Remember also too that US prices are always quoted pre-tax.

[Speedbird744]

I am currently 17 and finishing my "A" Levels. I intend on enrolling with European Flight Training in Florida on their Professional Pilot Course. (I'll be 18 before I start). Before enrolling I would have earned my PPL which would reduce the final cost down of this integrated course.
I will take out an unsecured student loan from HSBC of roughly £24000. The rest of the course my parents have agreed to pay!
As you might know, upon graduation one becomes a flight instructor earning up to 1500hrs.
This will take me up to 20 years old. When I will return to the UK and take the Cranfield College of Aeronautics "preliminary year" and then Postgraduate MSc Air Transport Management degree, (ONLy lasts a year!). And to keep current in flying I could perhaps instruct FREelance??
I should be done by 21 years old with a large debt, however with more parental support and a job in the industry, I could overcome the large sum over some years. Throughout this time, I will of course try my luck with many different types of flying jobs available.
I really would appreciate any replies PLEASE!
Thankyou very much
John

[Bodie]

Hello Speedbird744/John

Your plan seems solid enough and your research is somewhat better than many people of your age. Also, may I say that you are very fortunate to have such supporting patents.

I would research more in to the unsecured loan, perhaps by talking to the HSBC and seeing if they would actually be willing to provide one - they will want some idea of how you intend to pay this back etc, and may have entrance requirements for age.

Remember that with aviation training you should add at least 25% on top of estimated costs to account for overruns (This is no joke - ask many wannabes on pprune). Also, to be an instructor requires an instructor rating, costing approx £5k. I would like to be brutally realistic here and say that you need £35k minimum to get where you want to go, with your reserves pushes this up to £45k minimum. However, this figure is subjective and other replies will bound around this figure.

Cranfield College of Aeronautics "preliminary year"

Not quite sure what this is but I suspect it might be some kind of quick degree simply by the comments you made about gaining an MSc.

An MSc is a Master of Science course. Think of it as an 'add on pack' to a standard BSc Bachelors degree. You cannot have an MSc unless you have a BSc, which lasts approx. 3yrs. This is unless things have changed since I left uni 2 years ago.

If the course I have quoted is a degree, then this will not apply.

(At the risk of repeating myself from other posts) At the moment there are no job about so I'd seriously "go modular". Go to uni, have a great time getting laid and drunk for 3 years, then get a job and fly modular style. It might take you a few more years but your debt will be less and its great fun.

I have the satisfaction of a job I am enjoying, I have a share in my own plane for hour building so can go flying with my mates, I study with Bristol ground school during the evening and weekends and can just about afford to enjoy a night out or two. My dream of flying for a living will be a reality one day, just not this week.

Best of luck
Bodie

{Edited for spelling}

[Speedbird744]

Well the Instructor Rating is included within this unique program at European Flight Training, it is similiar to Comair Aviation Academy in Florida.

[Airborne16]

Check with HSBC about the unsecured loan. I think you will find it very difficult to get it without any job guarantee. Somebody that I know managed to get the amount that you are looking for, but only 10K was unsecured and that was only because he had a contract with him which guaranteed him employment at the end of training.
The Professional Studies Loan is pretty good, but it is very unlikely you will get that amount unsecured.

One word of advice too. If one branch of HSBC refuse you, then try as many as it takes. Each manager is different and they have no set policy on this!!!

Good luck.

[GlueBall]

Your "student visa" may include a provision for you to accept a job while enrolled in school. Even a part-time job would help with your finances. Ask the U.S. Embassy about including that provision with your student visa application.

[GeorgeJ]

I have been thinking a lot of about becoming a pilot, and it's my dream job. I currently reside in Windsor, Canada.

This is my last year in high school, my plan for next September is to get a decent paying full time job somewhere, and go to flying school at the same time. I would stay in that job until I would pay off my flying school. I may pay it off before I finish it though. I am not sure how long this would all take, but I understand the private licence could be gotten in as little as 6 weeks if you want to do it rather quickly. But anyways, I think it might take 3-4 years to finish it ALL.

Once I pay off my flying school, I would go back to my current part time job(Pizza Hut lol), work less and try and finish flying school. Once I finish flying school, I would become an instructor at that flying school to build up some hours, quit my part time job and sign up for college and get a back up.

So while I am at college, I could be an instructor after school and building up my hours. After some 3 years of college, I could have enough hours to get a job somewhere as a commercial pilot, hopefully a smaller airline.

Any opinions? Suggestions? Any other ways I should do this besides possibly military?

[Farrell]

I would stay in that job until I would pay off my flying school.



Ummm...what kind of job are we talking about here? Stock broker, bank robber?

My advice is to check out the MILLIONS of threads on this subject here and then see about getting a loan. It would be the fastest way around it and you will have fairly good prospects of getting a job - if you are willing to travel because at the moment I think that the job opprotunities in Canada are scarce!

Lots of good flight schools in Canada. Check out www.harvsair.com and send an email to a very nice guy called Adam.

Take care and best of luck to you.

[The African Dude]

George

If you check out the subject on here by doing a search then you'll see that getting a loan can put you in a positon of terminal deadlock with no room to move! So by all means think about it, just don't go running off to the bank too soon ...because the repayments will probably double your training cost in real terms if you include the stress of knowing you have a $300 repayment every month for the next ten years (and no house afterwards!!)

Your plan sounds good. Make sure you're flexible and take up ANY (any!!!!!) opportunity that is offered to you in these early days, however.

Regarding instructing - Airlines look for experience of t/prop, multi engine minimum normally (but it's definitely not impossible to get a job with single engine piston instructing - ask one of the many who have) but that's more the motivation to take any t/prop / night frieght / ferry whatever work that will make you stand out at the end of the day. If it is an airline you're after, that is, and not instructing (which can be much more rewarding for those that do it!)

Keep your head screwed on and your ears and eyes open - and never give up.

:ok:
Andy

[GeorgeJ]

I've thought about loans but I dont like loans and I think it would be the bet to get any sort of full time job and go to flying school at the same time. I know it will be time consuming and such, but heyyy I'll party when I get hired by an airline.

Anyways, I am thinking next september find a job in a factory, possibly my mom's where they pay like $25/h. Work there full time for 2 years, I can probably easily squeeze out $90 000(taxes included) in those two years, which will be MORE than enough to pay off all the flying school plus even college(I will be living at home :P, hell I aint moving out). Not to mention, if I become an instructor theres more money in that.

This is the flying school in my city
http://www.windsorflyingclub.com/training.htm

my plans to get are:
-private
-commercial
-multi-engine
-night rating
-multi engine instrument rating
-class iv instructor to get a job as an instructor there.
=38 000 plus maybe few extra thousand and approx 40-42k

Currently, the hardest part will be getting a good paying job. I really hope I can get into my mom's place.

[scameron77]

Mate,

From reading other threads I distinctly get the impresison that North American carriers tend to always go for college degrees. It woudl make sense to get that under your belt first (always gives you an extra option).

[GeorgeJ]

Yahh, thats my plan, get a college degree after I finish flying school. I think I might get a 3 year degree in something like International Business, or anything. It will also be my backup at the same time. I dont think University is a good option, it's a lot harder, longer, more expensive and besides, College can give me the same chance of being hired in an airliner as a university would probably.

But first, I want to get flying school so I can do intructing and college at the same time and build up hours.

[Farrell]

25 dollars an hour!!!

Ummmm.....you couldn't get me one of those jobs could you? :}

[GeorgeJ]

I dunno exactly about it, but I will settle for any job that will give me any decent pay. I could settle for $30 000/year and it will be enough that I work for two years to pay it off.

[Pilotpaul787]

Hello everyone :) I've been reading from Pprune for a year or two now but thought it was time to make my first post. Basically I've wanted to be a pilot since I was 10 and have been working towards it ever since. I was just hoping I could post my training plan on here and if anyone has any suggestions or comments regarding it, I would really appreciate it. Firstly, I have passed first time the Oxford Aviation 2 day aptitude assessment in Feb 2006. Although I have decided not to carry out my training with them for financial reasons I wanted to take the assessment to give me a good indication of my abilities.
As of now, I have just started my PPL a few weeks ago with Ravenair at Liverpool John Lennon and in September will be starting an Airline & Airport Operations BTEC. This being three days a week so I can carry on with my training while I undertake this course (this BTEC also gives me the opportunity to work part time in positions such as dispatch at Liverpool or Manchester airport). Upon completion of my PPL my training plan is as follows:


1) Night Rating – I will use Ravenair for this upon completion of my PPL
2) Hour building – Either I will join a Cessna group a friend of my family is in, which is fairly cheap or I will go out to the US where I have family & hour build over there.
3) ATPL Ground School – From all my research and asking around as well as their reputation I am thinking of using Bristol.
4) Regarding my flight training after my ATPL exams (CPL,IMC,MEP,IR), I am considering using Atlantic Flight Training, I know someone training with them who have given them a good report, their fleet is impressive, price, reputation and facilities are also impressive. I have also heard that it is preferable to carry out your flight training in one school rather than shopping around at different schools for different modules.
5) MCC/JOC using Oxford Aviation or one of the Ryanair approved MCC courses

So basically that is my plan as it stands now, obviously things could change between now and then, but if anybody has any views and suggestions on the way I have decided to proceed please let me know. I look forward to your replies.

Thanks,
Paul.

P.S My initial class one medical has just expired, am I right in thinking I can now exercise class two privileges with it?

Thanks again.

[dfspilot]

yes class 2 priviledges for 2 years from date of issue of class 1 initial/renewal date. you dont need to do the imc unless you have money to throw away or you just want he experience as you will do all that in the multi IR. all seems a good plan though particularly the part time work as it will help you build contacts ( which is very important ) . good luck with your training.

[TAP]

Good to know you are being pretty keen and going down the hard route. If you show that sort of commitment, you will end up places thats for sure. Be aware that you may find it harder to get into some airlines with the self improver course.

What I dont understand is that you mentioned that you may end up going to Ryanair at the end.. I believe the years of studying and flying (so i guess a lack of income) and then paying for a MCC course with Ryan (i'm guessing so you can go on to do a TR with them) and then a TR will cost more than an Integarated course.

However, what I can say is no matter what training you have done, no matter what you have flown, no matter how many hours in your log book, no matter on colour, creed or race your no.1 challenge is bagging that contact in the industry who will pop your CV on someone's desk!

[Pilotpaul787]

Thanks for the replies. :) Regarding the Ryanair approved MCC I doubt I would take that option even if funds permitted. I'd only come across that option just the other day so I was just thinking it over in my head really. Regarding contacts in the industry, hopefully any work experience from this BTEC course I am on will help make some contacts, I've also got a friend of the family who is starting with BMI soon. Any more replies will be appreciated. Thanks a lot,
Paul.

[bri1980]

A sound looking plan. Stick at it because it is very easy to get bogged down due to any number of reasons (usually lack of funds-tell me about it!)

I really hope you have more success than I'm currently having!

B

[Pilotpaul787]

I have another quick question; I've tried a quick search but couldn't find anything. When I mentioned earlier about me being told airlines prefer all a students flight training done at one FTO rather than "shopping around", does anybody know if this view includes doing my ATPL ground school at the same place as my flying, or is it generally just advisable to do all my flight training after my exams at the same school, with if possible little or no gaps between modules, i.e. full time training. Thanks for the past and future replies.

Paul.

[scroggs]

It does not matter where you do your ground school. It doesn't really matter where you do your flying training either, unless you want to work for a specific airline that has a tie-up with a specific school. Most airlines will never even ask where you trained once you have a licence and a few hours under your belt.

Scroggs

[Pilotpaul787]

Ok thanks Scroggs :)

[antic81]

One piece of advice I was given though Re flight training was, try to keep it in the UK, it may be tempting to go overseas, i.e cheaper, but try to get all your training and ratings done here, by which I mean, PPL, Night rating, Multi engine IR, and Com, just heard that airlines look more favorably at it, i dont mean the hour building though, for that go as cheap as you can find!

PS, i believe that the class 1 medical, if expired, can still be used with class 2 privileges for five years after the date of issue, actually it was recently explained to me by my AME, and the new certificates are much clearer on this!

Good luck mate, all the best!

Ant

[Felix Saddler]

I have decided that after i finish my upcoming A-levels i will go straight into flight training instead of uni. I came to this decision for a few reasons:

1) A lack of interest in further education.
2) A degree is not essential.
3) The option of open university is always available if needs be.
4) Student debt.

After much deliberation i have decided to go modular:

1) Integrated is far too expensive and i cant afford it.
2) Modular training can be done at your own pace and can be done a lot cheaper.
3) More flying hours.
4) Able to work full time to pay for training
5) Less debt!

How much it will roughly cost me:
(I have rounded up a little as renewal costs and transport costs i have no idea about)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Module 1
Orlando flight training (http://www.flyoft.com/pilot_course.php)


PPL & NR


• JAA Pa28 45 hour PPL course - £4194
• Class II Medical - £150
• Flights to USA - £350 + Air miles
• PPL issue - £170
• NR Issue - £80
• Study pack - £199
Total for PPL & NR & Medical - £5200

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Module 2

Bristol Ground School (http://www.bristol.gs/prices.php)

• ATPL Theory module 1 & 2 - £2100
• Exam fees - £900
• Class I Medical - £400
(Probably do some hour building between modules)
(Also prices are Dependant on 1st time passes, £62 per exam)

Hour Building

• Block rates Pa28 $99hr with OFT.
• 100hours Pa28 - £5015
• 2 months Accommodation with OFT - £1000
• 2 x Return Flights to USA - £600 + Air miles!
• 7 hours UK flying - £735 (£105hr wet)

Total for Ground school & Hour Building - £11000


(I would do 1 months hour building then go back later in the year, hence the 2 x flights)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Module 3

Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training (http://www.bcft.org.uk/pdf/BCFTBrochure.pdf)

• MEPL/CPL (incl. all course material & test fees) - £7300
• CPL Issue - £220
• Instrument Rating (incl. all course material & test fees) - £11000
• IR Issue - £110
• MCC at OAT - £2900

(excl. living costs as i have no idea!)

Total for Commercial Training - £22000

-------------------------------------------------------------------

•Total hours flown - 250 hours

•Total cost of training - £39000






-------------------------------------------------------------------





Once again i am aware that this is only rough and there are many hidden costs to consider, however i rounded up significantly to try counter act these.

Kind Regards,

Felix Saddler.

[AlphaMale]

Think you'll be short of 100hrs before starting Module 2?

I thought you needed 150hrs and a PPL to be able to start / sit ATPL exams?

You might be better off in doing a PPL + Night + MEP + 100hrs All in one go while your out there. Think OFT were charging £9,995 for it but it may have been another Florida based JAA FTO :confused:

Good luck

Edited to add:

FlyOBA ATPL Prep (http://flyoba.com/JAAATPL.php?expmnujsclick=45331-1-6)

[Whirlygig]

You need a PPL in order to start the ATPL ground school and 150 hours plus exams passes before you start the commercial training.

Cheers

Whirls

[AlphaMale]

I knew you needed it for CPL onward but wasn't sure for the ATPL exams. :\ ... Ooops.

[tornado617]

I am able to save the £3000 course fee in a couple of months and I will then be ready to go to the USA to do my JAA PPL. If i save to the end of the year,however, i will have just over £7000. Would it be better to get my PPL now and save for my hourbuilding and ATPL groundschool after, or save £7000 and have it all ready? I know it sounds obvious, but i really want to get on with it. Thank you.

[Felix Saddler]

Tornado, im planning on doing the same thing as you. I have saved 5K to go do my JAA ppl in the summer and will continue to save after that for the rest.

[TurboJ]

Don't forget that you are likey to have better job prospects doing an integrated course than a modular.

Its not intended to start the age old debate but as a generalisation you are likely to appeal to more employers with 200hrs having done an integrated than a modular course; even having been to the same flight school.

[Felix Saddler]

A pilots license is a pilots license.

[rob152]

Hi guys,

Right, how does this for a plan sound?

Class 1 medical, important 1st step for obvious reasons.
Finish PPL, currently 50hrs but inconsistently.
Bristol groundschool for the year of home study.
Hour building at Stapleford in spare time for the duration of the groundschool year, this will include night qualification.
CPL at Stapleford after groundschool and hour building.
ME/IR at Stapleford after CPL.
MCC, not decided where to complete this course yet!

Total estimate is approx. 32k. Obviously have a contingency for more as required. Haven't calculated yet the estimated total number of hours on completion, would imagine 200-250hrs.

This plan is clearly unique to me due to having to maintain full-time employment in order to convince my Dad of helping me but, forgetting the integrated vs modular dispute, does this sound realistic with the potential for success? As far as I can tell my accumulated licences will be the same as an integrated route which are just as valuable, I just believe that this way is more realistic for me and I only hope that gaining all of the above I would at least be in a position to start applying for work and would finally have achieved the qualifications. Next hurdle, getting that job lol!

Cheers for any responses,

Rob152

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Sounds like a plan sir. It would be an idea to have a 15-20% contingency budget throughout your training, there is always something that will come up, like an engagement ring or something :eek:. This advice was given to me when I was in your situation and worked a treat, but I am not even married ;).

Good luck with your training.

All the best.

[Cavallier]

"Apparently Dave has a plan"

:)The Cav

[Snowiey]

After many years of dreaming of commercial aviation as a career I have finally decided to go for it at 28. However , the first hurdle I have came across is modular or integrated. I am planning to use the equity in my home to fund my final choice.
After many hours of reading this forum I am yet to find the perfect answer, and have come to the conclusion that the perfect answer does not exist. Financially, if I used everything I have, I could (just) manage to afford an integrated course with one of the big names.
I am also considering the modular route through my local training school - Cleveland ( based at Durham / Tees Valley ) as well as Bristol ground school. My query is the distance learning, I hear that Bristol is very good, but can you achieve what you could in a more intense classroom environment? With the added bonus of being able to ask questions there and then?
Another factor in going modular is that after achieving qualifications the saving made could be used to 'buy' my way into a officer training scheme - such as Ryanair cadet scheme ( if I did not do well with the 'posting CV's method ).
If I went Integrated and got no job at the end I would be financially wrecked in terms of being able to invest in 'a further step'. I am still unconvinced by the schools 'help' to find you employment, certainly not convinced enough to spend the extra £20K or more.
Even if it offends the morals of some that I am willing to 'buy' my way in to a cadet scheme, I have to be realistic. For me personally this is a huge sum of money. I need to aim to achieve the best possible outcome first time as this level of investment won't be possible again! Any comments?

Regards Jon

[justjoshing]

go to sixth form and get some A levels, then bee a pst man for 2-3 years while doing tons of overtime which would get me about £23k a year.
Then do the modular route with money i have saved and help from my parents and a small loan.

I dont know if this sounds ok or not, i would like the opinion of some pilots and what the employment statstics are like.

Is cabair a good place to do the modular route.

Thanks Josh

[preduk]

I wish I could have done a £23k a year job when i left school lol, is there such a thing for an 17/18 year old?

I may be wrong, I left school a long time ago :rolleyes:

[GrahamK123]

You seem to post the same stuff day after day on here and on the OAT forums- do you listen to what people say??

[future captain]

I had a friend work at the post office, and im sure they had different brackets for pay..But maybe 18 + is the last bracket, which you should be in after exams. I know the post office has alot of overtime available though :E

[skytrax]

Hi guys,
I need a piece of advice please.
Im planning to start all this way of becoming a pilot. Im currently in UAE, working in Dubai so Im gonna do the PPL here at Emirates Flying School. It cost around 9000 euro. They say the license is international so I can do the CPL anywhere else afterwards. If it's not like this pls let me know if you have more information.
After this I was told to get a JAR license in Spain or UK. Probably Spain 'cos it might be cheaper. Innitially I wanted to go to Australia for CPL.
Im from a country part of UE and I know it's something that it matters in this industry in order to choose where to do my training and get a job later on.
Please don't laugh if I said something stupid and try to help me!
Thank you

[iamanaussiemavrick]

What license is it?? JAR???

If not i think you will have to convert at the end if you need to fly in europe(i am not sure about it, if i am wrong someone cud correct me)

[Hookerbot 5000]

The UAE license given is in accordance with ICAO requirements and is recognized internationally.

http://www.emiratesaviationservices.com/main_courses.htm


You will have to convert to JAA. :ugh:

[Batfink58]

Well….here I am another 30 something contemplating a career change:ugh: (from IT) to fulfil my desire for a flying career. I’ve been contemplating taking this step over the last 3 -4 years and have now concluded it’s now or never. I currently hold a PPL with just over 100hrs TT and also have my class 1 medical.
I’ve thought through a plan of action and would be most grateful for any positive or negative comments.
So, my plan is as follows:
I request my employer to let me take a career break for 6 months starting early 08. I get myself on a full time ATPL theory course and get my 14 exams done in the 6 months. Reason for full-time and not distance learning is that it’s been sometime since I’ve had to do the whole exam thing:\ and I feel that I really could do with classroom influence. Also, with a wife and young baby, the D.L route will realistically take me 18months – 2 years to complete. During the 6 months away from work I will live off our savings and also cash raised from equity in the house.
After completing ATPL theory I return to work and start on CPL/ME/IR/MCC etc This will obviously need to be completed on a part-time basis (weekends and as many evenings as I can squeeze in), I can not afford to be off work for more then 6 months. I’d like to complete the flight training section in 6 months – do you guys think this is achievable?
What do you reckon, is this a realistic plan of action? There is a big IF and that is my employer granting me a 6month career break.
I need some guidance as to how long the flight training part will take me to complete on a part-time basis. Any inputs positive or negative will be well received and much appreciated.
I estimate this will all cost me approx £25K (excluding loss of earning during 6 month break). Does this figure appear realistic to you guys?
Thanks in advance for your inputs.

[boogie-nicey]

You could also opt for the distance learning but study it away from home on a full time basis and get it done quicker than 6 months. Thus the time saved will allow you to pick off the CPL at least and leave fewer modules to contemplate once you've returned to work. You might also wish to consider a flexible flight school that will allow the majority of the training to be conducted at weekends thus saving more valuable work time. In other words Go for half day Tuesday and Thursday = 1 annual leave day from work coupled with Saturday and/or Sunday perhaps..... I know one small school at Cranfield that understand the time constraints of students. You might wish to consider some US based schools that offer Multi rating and CPL training.....

As long as you have an effective gameplan then crack on with it now and don't hang around you never know what's around the corner. Also be realistic during training and don't push yourself to the extent that you end up being your own worst enemy, learning to fly is only part technical the remainder is the maturity of the knowledge in your head and the motor-sensory skills you've been taught, allow yourself to develop into the mould of things.

Best of luck my friend :ok:

[potkettleblack]

I have a mate that is doing his CPL and IR part time whilst working. It really is a struggle for him. Thing is on paper it looks like a great idea. BUT what happens in practice is that on the days/weekends off you have planned to fly things like weather, instructor availability, aircraft serviceability, airfield closures etc etc all come into play. Then depending on your own ability you might find that with a bit of a break between lessons that you have to go over old ground which will amongst other things add to the costs. I can tell you from experience at a PPL level that the longer it takes you the more chance you have of your instructor going AWOL which means you start again and are going over old ground with someone new.

Whereas if you are sitting around a school day in and day out then generally they will try their darnedest to get you up in the air after any protracted delays. Sometimes maybe flying twice a day if they have an aircraft available.

Other thing to consider is the great British weather. What month you start your training (more so for CPL but CB's, howling winds and turbulence aren't what you want for the IR) can have a big influence. I started my CPL/IR back in September of last year. I got through the CPL in about 4-5 weeks. Some guys starting after me weren't so lucky and were grounded for a couple of weeks which didn't help matters. The IR can race along at the start as depending on where you go part of the course can be done in an FNTP2 so no weather issues to take account of.

In summary my advice would be to try and do at least the CPL full time and get some more holidays. Then have a break and go back to work if necessary and then do the same for the IR. Failing that if you must go part time then make sure that you find a school that buys into what you are trying to achieve. More than likely it will be a smaller school I am guessing who might have an instructor that is willing to work weekends.

[wiggy]

Just to add my twopence worth (ex military, ex-QFI, did ATPL academics by distance learning many years ago) I think both the previous posters have given you good advice.
If you have a limited ration of time off/leave or whatever I would save it for the flying, because that is where you need the continuity.
I would have thought that as you currently work in IT you have probably developed some fairly sound studying skills and methods and so I would have thought you could cope with the academics by part time and/or distance learning.

[camel toe]

How about doing the ground school, then go back to work for 6-12 months, and then take another break (or quit) and do CPL/Multi/IR full time? There are plenty of decent schools in the UK so you don't need to go to the US, therefore get maximum bambino time on non-flying days.

Good luck

Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[Batfink58]

Thanks for your inputs – some very useful advise. It’s amazing how much it helps to just hear other opinions.
Wiggy – I see what you mean about achieving continuity during the flying stage – good point. If I’m honest, one of the other reasons I want to get the theory done is that I’m absolutely dreading it and just want to get the exams done fast as possible with as much help I can get.
Ok…. another question - what would you recommend if I could secure a 12 month career break and manage to get the cash somehow (don’t know how yet though!!!) to support myself for 12 months – would you go modular or integrated?
I know there is a large difference in cost between the two routes, but to be honest I’ve never understood why since in the end the same modules are completed. Let me know if I’m completely barking up the wrong tree here…….

Camel-toe – Thanks for your advise – another great suggestion. What I’m worried about here is that I’m now 32 and not getting any younger, therefore I feel age is not on my side so it’s prudent that if I’m going to do this then I should try for the fastest possible route. Hope you can see where I’m coming from.

[coodem]

I am in the same boat as you, thought about distance learning, started distance learning, but with a full time job in IT, working weekends, nights, I was not getting anywhere.

I decided to take redundancy, I am lucky in that respect, I am due to start with CATS on the 8 Oct full time, One of the biggest reasons for going full time is due to wanting to have a good understanding of all the subjects, Its one thing to pass them, but when you are given a chance of an interview, you want to make the most of it. The ATPL theory will always come back at the interviews

Beeing in the company of other wannabes will also help keep motivated, as you won't get the feeling of being alone. I'm sure 6 months will go by very fast

[camel toe]

Yeah I understand with the age thing (although personally I wouldn't worry just yet). If you consider that if you were to do the CPL/Multi/IR part time in the UK as others have said you may end up:

a) spending more money as you have to repeat bits which have become a bit rusty
b) taking a frustratingly long time to complete due to only being able to fly 2 or 3 times a week

Therefore if you were to hammer work for 6 months and then go and do the above bits full time, the net effect of completion might be quite similar and you would have possibly spent a bit less due to continuity of training and it would have felt like less of a ball ache as you wont be constantly juggling work with flying with family, if you catch my drift.

With regard to the ground school, I have a friend who went the Bristol route, took a few months off work and just went into our local library every weekday and treated it like his job. Got the course completed with good grades in less than 6 months, can't remember the exact time scale but I believe it was about 4 and a bit months. He got to live at home and spend time with friends and family. It depends on how disciplined you are, if you feel like you don’t have that ability then go and get immersed in a residential course. Only you know deep down though what sort of a studier you are :ok:

Keep us informed though as these sorts of discussions help lots of people when deciding what to do.

Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[Batfink58]

From the very helpful advise received here, I am now tempted to try for maybe a longer career break, if not 12 months then maybe 8 months. This will at least allow me to get the CPL under my belt before returning to work.
If say I managed to get 12 months off work, then what would you do - integrated or modular? Seems to be a big difference in the costs involved.
I thank you all again for your advise.:ok:
I have to say though; posts like this one below do really worry me.:eek:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=288618

[camel toe]

Batfink you will never get the "definitive" answer regarding going integrated or modular, and I'm not even going to cast an opinion here as it really is discussed to death around these areas.

It has to be what is best for you. If you do plenty of research, visit schools, plan your finances, chat to people face to face who work in the industry then you "may" come up with a lean toward one or the other, at the end of the very very long day discussing integrated v modular if you have researched it properly you should be happy with your choice. Some don't have the choice between integrated or modular but even if you find yourself in those shoes you still have to decide which school and why etc.


There is no "holy grail" so don't go looking for it, just check out what is available and the answer should materialise once you've slept on what you have learnt from the background leg work.

With regard to that link you posted, I think some sound advice to throw you before you get too blinkered with training is that it can be tough to find that first job. Many in these neck of the woods have spent "a lorra lorra money" and have been looking for that first job for what probably seems like an expensive eternity. There are of course others who have happily got something straight outta school. Don't listen to who shouts loudest, as posts like that show that those who aren't getting jobs shout pretty loudly, just make sure the fact you may end up with no job is factored into your thinking - up to you whether you mention that to the missus :E

As always best of luck and keep asking here, it's a fookin useful tool.

Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[Pick me Flybe!]

What does your wife and family think about the whole idea? did you swing her round to the idea with the whole "as soon as i finish with 220 hours i will start with an airline for a while then go to ba and earn mega bucks"?

If you did thats a pipe dream and you have been somewhat selfish to your family. Have you thought what will happen in 1 - 2 years when you have a mountain of debt, or youve spend all of your familys savings and childs inheritance and you dont have a job. I cant imagine your wife will be best pleased! There will be lots of :mad: :mad: :mad: flying round the house that night!

When you do qualify, you will have 220ish hours. There are 9 million other guys out there with that many hours all fighting for remarkably few jobs.

I would take a step back and really look what you are up against, if you do go ahead :) you will have great time!!!! and i hope you make it to where you want to go.

But now you have responsibilites and a mortgage a career in aviation might be water under the bridge if you weigh up the pros and cons. :(

On the brighter side, i wouldnt worry about the groundschool, i did it distance learning and passed all 14 exams with little difficulty. Not because im clever :8,but because the amount of feedback out there makes the exams a memory test. When you sit the exams you will have seen nearly every question beforehand.

That does lead me to another point. I am the first to admit that, that kind of exam prep does leave gaps in knowledge which could become exposed at any interview. But still i would save any career breaks for the flight training as previosly suggested.

[woottsbj25]

Hey everyone,
After doing extensive research around these forums, flight schools, talking to people etc, I've got a pretty good idea of what's going to happen to me in the next few years.
However, I've decided to be another one of "them" and put my situation across to all of you guys to see what you think.
So, here goes. I'm 17, I live in Preston, Lancashire. I'm just going into second year A-Level and I'm taking maths, physics, geography and computing (and I took the same for A/S level). After 18 months of training (I'm sure you all know the woes of British weather!) I finally managed to gain my PPL at Blackpool just after Easter this year. Since then I've just been keeping my hand in, flying approx. once every 3 or 4 weeks, and I currently have around 65 hours, 20 of which are logged as P1.
So, my future then. Naturally, I want to be a commercial pilot (how romantic!), and have done for many many years. I love (almost) everything to do with aviation, and frankly can't get enough of it, as, I'm sure, is the case with you guys. I've looked at all the different routes, and I'm pretty much set on a modular route (though I'm always open for discussion!). Apart from the fact that it seems a far more cost-effective way of doing it (while, for various reasons, cost isn't a massive deciding factor, of course it plays a large part in training, and I want to do it with as little incurred as possible), it seems far more "me" than going on an integrated course with CTC or the likes.
I have a friend who lives in Canada, and I went to visit last year. He's also got his PPL and wants to do the same thing as me. The plan is that next summer (once I'm done with college) I'm going to hop over the pond for a couple of months to do some "hour-building" with him. I'll need to get almost up to my compulsory 150 hours, with (I believe) 70 hours of that being P1 time for the MEP rating.
After that, things get a bit more blurry. I'm very interested in doing a distance-learning ATPL course after that, to allow me to live at home (hence not incurring accommodation costs), so the plan is so far that I'd complete that, either through BGS or by signing up for the OAT Waypoint scheme. Once done there, I'd either progress with OAT, most likely through their Arizona base (especially if I'd done the ATPL ground exams with them) or, if I'd gone through BGS, perhaps finding a different commercial school to complete my ATPL (f) and quite possibly my MCC too.
Of course, the question is "Then what?" to get an airline job, but I think from what I've read and heard so far that the best thing to do is to concentrate on actually getting through flight school first, before worrying about trying to get a job with the biggies.
What does that sound like as a plan to you guys? Of course, I'm open to any of that plan changing if we figure there's a better way of going about it. Any comments, suggestions or otherwise would be very much appreciated indeed.
Thanks a lot in advance!

[gs_bhoday]

Hey, I'm in a similar position to yourself. I'm 18 now, in college, currently doing my A2's and like you I am doing Maths, Physics and ICT. I have also got a PPL/IMC and have 170 hours with 102:15 PIC.

That is pretty much the route I am taking. (we're thinking on the same wavelength here :cool:), although just having read the forums today it seems like flight instruction is a good way to start out.

Hope we keep in touch, its great to speak to people my age that fly. There's quite a few of us now actually.

Keep In Touch
Gurcharan Bhoday