QF Longhaul Cabin Crew Promotions

[qcc2]

there must be a lot of csm's/css's put there hand up for the package as it just has been announced that Qf Lh is offering FINALLY some upgrades. how many? will see.:ok:

[lowerlobe]

I was surprised that the company managed to do without any more CSS's and CSM's after last years VR package.

What we need is someone from the office who posts here as crew to tell us the reason.

[GalleyHag]

Details now on the CC Website. They dont make it easy to become a CSM in the long haul division.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-
"They dont make it easy to become a CSM in the long haul division."

--------------

Or a Business First flight attendant for that matter.
The results however do speak for themselves........

[GalleyHag]

Im not going down that road. It was just an observation of the requirements. From memory LHR CSM's didnt have to go through all the requirements that are listed on the CC Website and nor do short haul CSM's and the only difference between long and short being an aircraft type and 4 desitantions and another small class.

[speedbirdhouse]

Longhaul CSM's have for at least 15 years had to jump through various hoops similar [but no less involved] to those described on the CC website.

Hasn't stopped the occasional fruit loop from slipping under the net though.

You would know better than most what the requirements are for Shorthaul Pursers......

[lowerlobe]

The requirements laid out by the company for L/H CSM's etc....do I believe lead to a better quality however as Speedbirdhouse said a few suss characters have made it.

The process though does enable the company to slip a few of their candidates in though....

[Don Esson]

The process though does enable the company to slip a few of their candidates in though....

So what if it does? Has not an employer have any rights in your ever so small and irrelevant world?

[speedbirdhouse]

Oh my god, he's back........
NURSE !............. NURSE !!............. NURSE !!!

[Don Esson]

There's no need to be screaming but I'm sure that you, and a lot of your colleagues, are in need of more help than any nurse is able to offer. ;)

[stubby jumbo]

Come off it Donny......you're going to have to come up with something a bit better than that to get us going.

Don't forget ....many of the "colleagues" ( that you refer to) that work in the "irrelevant world" have been dealing with your "type" for years in the J/C cabin. !!!!!

So we'll treat you the same way as we treat them.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) !!!(insert the letters that fit)

[speedbirdhouse]

What'll be facinating about watching the next round of recruitment is how the impact of the dysfunctional and fractured relationship between Longhaul crew and cabin crew [cough] management pans out.

You would be lucking to find ANYBODY with anything positive to say about the present regime given the abuse, harassment, bullying, lies and intimidation indiscriminately dished out to us over the last few years.

The contrast in management style between the Greg Bee, Lyn Stanbridge era couldn't be more stark.

Lyn understood, respected and nurtured our culture, developed individuals and appeared to understand that a healthy community needs diversity in it's managers.

The trouble that this lot of thugs have created for themselves through their treatment of us is that just about everyone with a backbone has told them, in one way or another, just what they think of them.

So. Who are this lot of fools going to promote?

The "ideologically sound" but operationally useless, brown noser?

I would think so given that it even took Lyn a while to work out that that doesn't often work.

This lot of thugs CERTAINLY don't have the skills or courage to do otherwise.

OR

They'll give give all the jobs to the MEL based [ex S/H] Longhaulers returning from LHR??????

[ozskipper]

GalleyHag says:

From memory LHR CSM's didnt have to go through all the requirements that are listed on the CC Website

They do actually. Both CSS and CSM processes are the same in the UK as they are in Australia. Also, before a CSM can be appointed in the UK it also needs to be reviewed by LG in Sydney.

[lowerlobe]

Hey Donny....

"Has not an employer have any rights in your ever so small and irrelevant world?"

Two points.

1:We are talking about the dysfunctional group that supported the takeover.To be honest I don't think they should be running a chook raffle.

2:I have no problem with the company promoting the people they want BUT only if they are capable of doing the job.There have been too many examples of cronyism to ignore and they are the ones that end up running the show with the ineviteable results.

Stubby..I don't think Don would know what P/C or J/C looks like and you are not allowed to wear a blue singlet in those cabins.

[stubby jumbo]

This whole APA-farce has distracted us from the main game.

Agree Speedbird, this round of CSM selection will make the APA bid process look fantastic.

The "brown nosing" has already begun on QCC/1......don't worry.

My question is:

HOW CAN A GROUP OF MANAGER'S (sneeze) WHO HAVE NO FLYING EXPERIENCE AT ALL (except for the terminator....but that doesn't count!:rolleyes: )SELECT A GROUP OF OPERATIONAL CSM'S ??

Me thinks there may be some biased subjectivity creeping in to the process.

[roamingwolf]

Stubby mate
Isnt that the same way that most of our managers get their jobs?
have you ever flown?
have you ever worked on an aircraft?
have you any idea of our procedures on an aircraft?
have you ever managed people before?
do you know where we fly to?
do you know where the airport is?
have you seen a picture of an aircraft?
do you know what kpi's are?
do you dislike most cabin crew?
"NO"
thats geat pal your hired
i reckon the crew going for the jacket should be asking them the questiuons

[roamingwolf]

ozyskipper mate i like your post

before a CSM can be appointed in the UK it also needs to be reviewed by LG in Sydney

they found out the hard way and its called damage control.

[YesTAM]

Roamingwolf is actually correct, I've seen it happen:

Isnt that the same way that most of our managers get their jobs?
have you ever flown?
have you ever worked on an aircraft?
have you any idea of our procedures on an aircraft?
have you ever managed people before?
do you know where we fly to?
do you know where the airport is?
have you seen a picture of an aircraft?
do you know what kpi's are?
do you dislike most cabin crew?
"NO"
thats great pal your hiredOnce upon a time, I had the same "type" of questions asked of me and was offered the job of Group General Manager ****** ********** in a certain company, at a six figure salary.

When I politely pointed out that while the offer was gratifying, my experience and qualifications were at considerable variance to their current technology and projects, and I was therefore puzzled as to why they chose me.

Their response was as follows: "We want you precisely because you have NO experience of the divisions culture and are not "infected" (their words) with (a certain technology background) bias. You will provide a breath of fresh air to the Division and see things through fresh and unbiased eyes, and make a clean break with the past."

To my sorrow, I believed their malarkey and there followed eighteen months of mental anguish before I gave it away - things like chairing a meeting to discuss a technology approach to a problem where I had no understanding whatsoever what people were talking about.

No marks for guessing which industry either.

[speedbirdhouse]

ozskipper,

were there not a number of CSMs appointed in LHR straight out of the flight attendant rank???

Longhaulers in Australia will have had to have worked as a supervisor in order to obtain the certificate level 4 that is required of the CSM position.

Certainly not the case in the cheaper, overseas bases. Eh?

[mrpaxing]

every applicant has to have his/her application form signed by their respective manager. i love the options. as manager they can support or achnowledge the promotion. talk about ego boosting. i anticipate the builders start working today to widen the doors at qcc1 to accomandate the fast growing ego's of the visitors:ouch: :eek:

[Kiwiconehead]

every applicant has to have his/her application form signed by their respective manager.

You will find that is a standard step of any internal job application anywhere in the Qantas Group.

[roamingwolf]

yeah but it's new to L/H cabin crew.I dunno what the fuss is about because the managers should know who goes for the jacket by the time the interviews are held.

Mate i reckon it's just to justify their jobs because what are they going to do when you tell them?

Lusley should be asking the managers at their little talk fests whether the person is good enough or not.all it does mate is to add another layer of BS to the process and make them feel good about themselves.

[stubby jumbo]

The whole sense of URGENCY around this process again smacks of the "usual" coming up,ie:


Whats the big rush?,......one week to express interest then its bang assessment centre , Womp....interview.
Who are doing the assessments?.......Cabin Crew Managers, CSM's, Trainers?
What do the training courses look like after 5 years. ? Has anyone bothered to dust off the manuals to see whats inside. Just another rehash of same old same old.......again no time for any changes to bring us up to speed with "dynamic" training methods.
Just Wham Bam ....Thankyou Mam........"Now get out and fix those IFE's--------and don't forget to remind BFA's to carry Waiters Cloths"!!!!.........oh pleeeeaseeeeee.Here we go again:hmm:

I love working for a Company with a Strategic Plan.:bored:

[lowerlobe]

Some here would say I am too negative but this incompetence just never fails to amaze me.Then again I am crew and not in the office.

What happens if you have been waiting for this for years and you happen to be away on LSL or annual holidays at the moment and come home and find out that you've missed it.

Stubby they do have a strategic plan it's just that no one knows what it is.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

"Stubby they do have a strategic plan it's just that no one knows what it is."

:) :) :)

----------


Maybe it's a ploy in case there might be someone left, still "engaged".

This lot really do redefine the word, "incompetence".

[roamingwolf]

Boys and Girls
i reckon the company wants to give us as little time as possible to apply so they can put their own mates in.

I mean out of all the crew who are the most likely to be on Long Service and not know about the job?Thats right the senior crew and they are the last ones they want in the job.

[speedbirdhouse]

At least you know about it mn63 and can get your application in......

[twiggs]

I mean out of all the crew who are the most likely to be on Long Service and not know about the job?Thats right the senior crew and they are the last ones they want in the job.

Considering a majority of crew now have greater than 10 years service, your theory really is pathetic.

There is nothing new about short notice for such things in our company.
Some people were given 2 days notice to decide if they wanted the job in the first place.

Anyway, perhaps the company prefers to promote people that keep their fingers on the pulse even when they are away on leave?
How hard is it to check your email wherever on the planet you may be taking your leave?

[roamingwolf]

Midnight-63 and Twigs the office rep who will not answer questions

Mate i think you have been over in the land of the long white cloud munching on too much fush and chups with tata source.

Pals if you read my post you would see I said but i'll break it up and make it simple so i reckon even both of you can understand it.

"out of all the crew"....

"who are the most likely to be on Long Service"...

"and not know about the job"...

Thats right ....."THE SENIOR CREW"

Mate maybe you should go to the lhr base and take twiggs with you to.

I gotta laugh at your bias twiggs so if you are on a cruise ship somewhere or somewhere in south america you think there are internet cafes just over the next hill or wherever and you should check everyday just in case some incompetent like you decides to spring something like this.even then you expect people to come down from trecking in the andes or wherever cancel all their plans lose money and race back to oz just because you and the rest in the office are panicking because you have just worked out you are short of csms and you want to save your own bacon

girly you really have no idea do you.the only thing pathetic around here is you and your posts

it is people like you in the office who cannot think ahead more than a few days at a time and expect everyone else to come rushing because you are not capable of doing your job.

[speedbirdhouse]

twiggs,

the quality of, and logic in your posts, suggest to me that you must be fat boy slim.

[roamingwolf]

cmon twix
tell us how you expect people backpacking in europe or on a yacht some place enjoying being away from the office and people like you who expect everyone to come running to know about this and be able to get home.

maybe you should give all crew on holidays a sat phone so they can call in everyday just in case you have screwed up AGAIN

or are you going to disapear for another 3 days and just make another ridiculous post as usual

speedbirdhouse..nah twix has to be female but your right and fat boy slim is a bit of a girl.maybe twix first name starts with "A" an wears glasses

[roamingwolf]

mate you can't even read a post and as i said what if your on a yacht some place on holidays or back packing in south america.
yeah right mate

[twiggs]

I don't even know who fat boy slim is.
But the office crawlers on here sure do.

[roamingwolf]

Twix
i still reckon your a girl but maybe if you look in a mirror youll see fat boy slim
i can see wht lowerlobe means when he says you never answer a question.:uhoh:

[twiggs]

as i said what if your on a yacht some place on holidays or back packing in south america

I thought the answer to this one was given adequately by Midnight-63, but in the case you have highlighted, which I might add is so likely to be the case for so many crew (sarcasm) , bad luck!

[roamingwolf]

yep as ll said no doubt about it girly works in the office .must be morning tea time

when they cant or wont answer your question all you get is bs and sarcasm and only because they can't do their job

[twiggs]

With a response like that it should be obvious now why I don't bother answering any of yours or your sister's moronic questions.

[roamingwolf]

waste of time here girly will never admit she is not crew so time to have a beer..make yourself useful and get back to work girly twix i'm sure you have a clause 11 to give to someone or kpis to justify

crew reading this might notice how twix never talks about anything important like the takeover but only has a shot at crew who are critical of the company.;) ;) ;)

[twiggs]

crew reading this might notice how twix never talks about anything important like the takeover but only has a shot at crew who are critical of the company

I prefer to comment on subjects that I have some knowledge of.
I have a shot at anyone who talks rubbish about anything or anyone, not just the company.

[mrpaxing]

guys. more importantly does anyone know how many crew put their hand up for VR?:rolleyes:

[lowerlobe]

RW don’t waste your breath with twiggsy as she is nothing more than a company plant. She attempts to pass herself off as crew but as you pointed out:

Never criticises the company and always takes their side in an argument
Only posts when someone is harsh or unhappy with the company and openly criticises them for doing so

Never comments on any topical subject such as the takeover mainly because she can’t.

She is only here to distract and discredit anyone who opposes the company and since the company endorsed the takeover she was hardly in a position to talk about it.

When stretched for a comment comes up with classics that George Bush would be proud of.

A prime example of her thoughts is the well known “I think everyone has lost sight of what this job is about, and it aint money.It's about the destinations”……

Ohh yes…..nice one twiggsy..So we can live on air and use it to pay our bills and mortgages. We really don’t need money just the glamour of flying around the world.

However she really blew it when she commented on a delayed flight out of Mel for Nrt.A comment about it was made by a S/H CSM and it was this

“The flight was delayed out of Melbourne to Narita a few weeks ago - an A330-300.
The LH crew weren't going to achieve their required rest break (just short) in NRT.
They try and negotiate with the LH crew. They say nope.
Phone calls are made to SH crew on home reserve. Paxed up to NRT, day rest and bring back the aircraft. 2 things here -
1. you have to be flexible sometimes to help yourselves in the long term
2. Before you bag the SH crew - The SH crew had no choice.”

Then Twiggsy put her foot in it by saying…

”In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.
The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD.”

Now,Twiggsy is supposed to be a L/H F/A based in Australia.
How then did she know?

1:That there was a delay. In fact she refers to the issue as “In the delay in question” as if she has first hand knowledge of it.

2:What was offered to the L/H crew and that it was an offer not a request.

3:That it was declined.

4:A probable reason for that refusal.

5:That S/H were called out.

6:What the pattern for the S/H crew was.

When you read her post it sounds as though you are listening to someone in the office giving a briefing of the delay for the committee who deals with aircraft delays.

When asked for an explanation of her knowledge of the minute details of the delay she prevaricated for more than 2 months before finally telling us that she found out about it by knowing where to read.

Where exctly is that Twiggsy?

Now with the company giving minimal notice of promotional prospects after years of waiting twiggsy tells us that we should be in constant and daily contact with the company at all times even when on holidays.

With the basic purpose of holidays being to get away from the work enviroment Twiggs and the rest of the office tells us that we still need to keep in touch.

RW is right perhaps the company should give us all satellite phones so that they can call us at every opportunity:yuk:

[cartexchange]

twigg and Midnight, your lack of understanding crew logistics is incredible.
Yes people are able to keep in contact with QF via a myriad of electronic ways.
But what is the point if you are on annual leave or forced LSL in may/June (there are a lot of crew on forced leave) and you are overseas!
What do you fly back for those hideous assessment days and then wait for a panel interview and then start training in your holidays.
Also QF have now stated that if you happen to be on a trip on one of the assessment days they will not allow you to drop it and take annual leave.

Anyway who cares, they have already selected their people! and they happen to be the EX LHR CSM/CSS and the Brown nosers that man the BOS desk and other areas of QCC
Its a done deal.

[stubby jumbo]

.........just spoke to my Cabin Crew Team Manager ( burp!)......he advised that the CSM Training course will be TWO WEEKS in length.


I can remember when it was SIX !!!!!

Talk about "cut backs"!!!!:ugh:

Guess who the facilitators are going to be......


wait for it




....take a deep breath !!!!!!

THE CABIN CREW MANAGERS .

This course has credibility written all over it.

Good Luck to those who get the gig.

You're gonna need it. It will be yet another QF debacle.

[speedbirdhouse]

WHAT !!!!

Two weeks ????? AND facilitated by people who have NEVER worked on an aircraft.

PRICELESS !!!!

[stubby jumbo]

..............'the other bit that I forgot to mention is that the new CSM's will be put on SIX MONTHS PROBATION ......post the 2 weeks training.

`What tha???/

Can some one please tell me some other job in the "outside/real" world whereby you are selected on merit as a Manager ......only to be put on probation as a "......just in case they are duds".

ie ......only criminals get put on probation in my books.:hmm:

Imagine how many of the current ground managers ( EXCO included) would be still around if they were on probation.........don't go there.

Come back Line Contollers, bring back the old regime.

All is forgiven.

Spare us these incompetent Clowns any longer.:oh:

[cartexchange]

heh Heh ehehhhhhh:)
this is going to be gooooooooooood
Anyway the brown nosers and ex LHR will only need 2 weeks.
Cant wait to see the list.
My spy tells me they have been inundated with lick lick phone calls.
My spy tells me that soon the dobbing and recriminations will begin.
Watch your backs for a while boys as there will be a few out there that will do anything to score some points.:O

[speedbirdhouse]

So these new appointees will be thrown out online after just 2 weeks training
[historically it's been 6], with the expectation that if they stuff up within the first 6 months they have to hand back the coat???

It's just getting better.

Can't wait to hear how the ground dwelling [non operational] managers are going to appraise the onboard performance of these new CSM's.

How are they going install a BOS desk onboard for them to run to when issues "operational" arise??????

Bring back the line managers indeed.

Except the one who the, "snack on Q's" are now named after......

[lowerlobe]

A two week training course...brilliant..where's our company spokesperson for a comment?

sorry I forgot..she won't make any adverse comments about the company and she can't possibly condone a 2 week training course .

This is another example of cost cutting by the company.I can imagine the discussion between JB and LG about the need for more CSM's.

LG...John ..we need more CSM's...90% have taken VR !!!!
JB..But Lusley..we don't have any money..
LG...Hang on what about in the papers and all that talk about a billion in cash we have....
JB..but Lusley..... Darth won't let us use it.....
LG....Well how about if we cut training back from 6 weeks to 2 weeks.
JB..They need training..?
LG..Well , we've got to at least try to make it look as though we care about the role..
JB ..Can you do it in 1 week..how about a morning tea when we give them the uniform????
LG..No it takes at least 2 weeks to brain wash them into liking Darth...
JB..OK you'e got 2 weeks but put your own people in so we keep interviewing costs to a minimum.
LG..How about they pay for their own ties...

This is going to be good...hang on I know what has happened.When AO was shut down we probably got the village idiot back and he is doing the training.
He is that bad that he is only allowed 2 weeks because the recruits would probably have him fitted for cement shoes if they had to put up with him for 6 weeks........

[OCCR]

:ok: Speedbird and Lowerlobe.
As you know I agree with 99% of what you have to say.
However the 2 weeks training is more than sufficient for the new CSM"s.
The new CSM's have been CSS's for years and most of them have operated as a CSM.
REally ! what is the problem!
The only ones that need training is if a F/A is going to be made up as a CSM and that" aint gonna happen"
Actually it would be insulting to think that the CSM's need more than 2 weeks.
Apart from learning all the J/C procedures what else do you want them to learn.
So come on lets get real here!
Anyway as stated most of the CSM's will be from LHR and all those BOSS people.

[speedbirdhouse]

Point taken OCCR.

However is only the "merit appointed" supervisors employed within the last 7 or so years that received the 4 week training component.

Ad the two weeks training to this lot and I guess you have your 6 week total.

It'll be different for those supervisors who were originally employed as "seniors" as their training was less than comprehensive but as you say the arguement is at the end of the day pointless.

We know too well who will ge the positions.

Credibility amongst your peer group counts for a lot in our flying community and can massively influence job satisafaction.

Being "one out" on a crew of 15 can be a lonely experience on a nine day trip.

QF at the end of the day has a "duty of care" to ensure that it's newly appointed managers are FULLY trained and equipped to deal with what can be, on occasion a very demanding role.

They can hardly hold them accountable for the decisions thay make otherwise.................

[cartexchange]

true speed bird but those "seniors" have been in the job for over 10 years now, I think that they have the needed experience.
Anyway most of the so called "merit" based CSS's have been disastrous.

the 2 week training for the CSM's is sufficient provided they have been a supervisor for at least 2 years.

On Board experience counts for everything,and I agree with you that being a good manager means that you don't isolate all your crew!

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote- "Anyway most of the so called "merit" based CSS's have been disastrous."

I'd have to respectfully disagree and acknowledge that perhaps we are seeing things from a different perspective.

I can't honestly think of too many [if any] current "merit based CSS's" that are ordinary.

The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role.

Plenty of shockers come to mind there, don't you think??

Two years minimum as a CSS makes sense to me too. The role provides an almost perfect learning curve and certainly sorts out the wheat from the chaff.

My comments re isolation relates to what the crew may do to someone who
they perceive to be underserving of the position through sheer incompetance or "otherwise". Be that political appointee, company stooge/brown noser or queue jumper.

[cartexchange]

The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role.

you're 100% correct on that one!

[mrpaxing]

lets say some the ex lhr based managers get a look in. then you have the ex domestic csm who came accross lh as bfa then css. then you have the recently transfered sh csm into lh as csm's with only minimum training. pandoras box is well and truly open. 2 weeks training is far too much, why not hand them a cd that will do. it certainly is better then having the visitors doing the training.:rolleyes:

[lowerlobe]

OCCR....Agreed that you raise a fair point.

However there are two issues I think are relevant.

1:Why Now?

After having a 6 week course since I can remember and having more courses for us to do than you can poke a stick at ,why do they drop it to 2 weeks now.

2:The issue such as those returning from the London Monopoly game and will skip 2 or 3 places and go straight to the cashier with out looking back.

The other point is that it is almost as though someone in the office has just woken up and realised that they do not have enough CSM's and need them by yesterday.....Then again why does that not surprise me.

"The ordinary ones from my perspective are those that effectively bypassed the CSS role and went almost straight away into the CSM role"........Exactly right but then again they have managers that have never flown so at least they are being consistent.

[DEFCON4]

350 crew have kicked the tyres for VR.
Dont be surprised if the company doesnt get enough applicants for both the CSS and/or CSM positions.
The culling process begins with the application....your manager must tick a box indicating that they support your application.
Many hopefuls are not getting the tick.
They are looking for "business champions"
Gee...I wonder who qualifies?
A brown spot on the tip of your nose may help

[RedTBar]

I had always thought that the title of "Base Champion" was indicative of the mindset in the office and now that they want "business champions" only reinforces that concept.

[stubby jumbo]

'Just spoke to a mate who rocked up for the CSM assessment day in BNE today.

He said .....it was "quote" .....a frigg'n joke!!!

"No one knew what was going on ( Cabin Crew Managers , that is) They bumbled and fumbled their way through a totally flawed process-a debacle."

Again, why the big rush ???.. There are heaps of people who are unable to apply due to Leave etc. A window of 1 week to apply for people who are on rotational shifts is a joke. How can any one assess operational crew who do not fly OR have flown.? There's only one who has --- A.S. who was a F/A in PER.:D

Apparently they are going to buddy up the new CSM's with "Mentor CSM's" ( what tha????) How does one qualify for this gig? Word is that the Mentor CSM will fly with the CSM on "training wheels" for a period of time as a Supernumerary. Yes please.....I'll have a JFK trip with a 3 day slip ( reminds me of Gilroy daze )

Anyway, 10 days in the Mushroom farm will probably be enough.

Gotta love this place. Its all happening:cool:

[mrpaxing]

any ideas how many take the package or how many new csm/css they make up?

[stubby jumbo]

3 classes of L/H CSM's, .....approx 14 per class.
Training..... starts on the 4th June for Course #1, 6th June Course #2 8th June Course #3.

New CSS numbers are rumoured to be around 45.

Obviously these numbers will cover all bases.

The current CSM ..."Mentor" group that haven't been selected yet ???!!!! will start their training mmmmmmmm.......soon!!!!
These are the ones's that will fly with the new CSM bunnies on their first trips.
A good idea:D

[twiggs]

Currently there are 14 CSS's and 17 CSM's waiting to transfer to SYD and 13 CSM's waiting for BNE and 6 CSS's waiting for BNE.

After those have been actioned there still should be a few slots in SYD for the lucky ones, the rest will be down in MEL.

[roamingwolf]

and who wants to move to mexico

and yeah but don't forget the technology champions the company wants too.

boys and girls
jobs everywhere

[mrpaxing]

to see who got it this time. :p

[DEFCON4]

The Usual Suspects....those flying less then 10 years and have a bed on the Ist floor.
Watch out for a whole new batch of by the book nazis..fart in the wrong place with this lot and you will be clause elevened.
Double jeopardy.... a brand new CSM flying with a brand new CSS.
A crew's worst night mare

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote- "A crew's worst night mare"

------------

And the passengers ..........

[DEFCON4]

No sleep..due to no flexibility.
they will get overkill....and no sleep on a 13 hr sector.
.....and the crew will get no sleep and provide declining quality of service.
Absolutely fab?.....absolutely not.
These guys will learn the hard way...they will be lied to...bent over and then offered no support whatsoever.
I can see a few mutinies in the next twelve months.
Not to mention.... superglued suitcase locks...biscuits in pockets and banana scraped on the bottom of shoes.
Oh Dear .. lotsa tears

[PattyStacker]

But at least the pretty little Ad's on TV will make you feel proud that work for a great Australian Icon..:}.....

[Mr Seatback 2]

"Not to mention.... superglued suitcase locks...biscuits in pockets and banana scraped on the bottom of shoes."

At the risk of sounding naive, does that sort of thing go on in reality??

[speedbirdhouse]

Ah......not that I'm aware of and I've been around a while.

Having said that, one of our more notorious CSMs "lost" a shoe while he was in crew rest resulting in a rather lopsided shuffle through customs.

Rumour has it that it "found it's way" into the onboard trash compactor, never to be seen again.

[DEFCON4]

In the old days Bombe Alasks were put in attache cases.
Locks super glued.
Biscuits put in Uniform pockets
Ice cream in shoes
Breakfast ordered,charged and delivered to rooms at 3am.
The list goes on......
Moral of the story...dont upset the crew

[Mr Seatback 2]

Understand this sort of thing went on in the old days - and probably to a lesser extent these days too...

But...I wonder, as a curious observer, what makes a CSM good vs. bad over at Long Haul?

Is following the rules and procedures seen as being that bad? Or is it a case of being inflexible??

From my own experience, I like onboard managers who do follow the rules, but who also demonstrate flexibility when faced with different situations.

[DEFCON4]

Trust
You can trust them to get the "balance"right
Personally I dont trust anyone in management on the ground.
But....I trust a number of "managers"who fly because they will not shaft you when it all hits the fan...they take responsibility for what goes on without blaming someone else..that takes courage and earns enormous respect and trust.
There comes a time in every CSM's career when they need the support of their crew.....those that arent trusted get crucified....I have seen it happen and it aint pretty.

[stubby jumbo]

....apparently the list is out on Thursday /Friday ( more like it )

Training starts on 4 th June for 2 weeks then off with a "mentor CSM" ( they have picked them yet ??) .....ahhhhh whats the rush.!!!!!

Talk about our pollies doing "policy on the run" .
This is Development on the Gallop.

" Do you want fries with that ???!":ouch:

[lowerlobe]

This will be interesting..especially the briefings that crews will have to endure.This will give you an indication of how the trip is going to be.

[mrpaxing]

received a phone call yet?:rolleyes:

[jetjockey7]

If you havent had a phone call today.....you wont get one tomorrow

[lowerlobe]

Those successful in getting the jacket probably did not need to get a phone call ,they knew already!!!!

[surfside6]

Start date after 1992
Time on the BOS desk
Never say no to or contradict ground management
No free thought enters your head
Memorize the procedures/runway guide
The Company comes before your family
The Company comes before your religion
In fact it IS your religion
Be PRO Company,ANTI crew
Have an upclose and personal relationship with a visitor
Be able to sing"I Still Call Australia Home"in your sleep
What is good for the "Group"is good for everyone
Above all...believe that you are the chosen one
You have in fact been CHOSEN not PROMOTED

[Shlonghaul]

Just spoke to a mate who applied for VR and he has received letter confirming redundancy effective 30 June. Good luck to all those lucky enough to be leaving. :ok:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Any idea how many are jumping ship?

[qcc2]

surfside6 made my day:D:D:D

[lowerlobe]

I am really glad to be taking VR as after 30 years the company still has not changed one iota.

[sydney s/h]

Some of you guys are unbelieveable. Some of you have bitched and complained about lack of promotion etc and now they put out the ad's for CSM/CSS's you start to bitch about the people who may get the jobs!!

Wow...is it actually possible that some of these CSS's may actually be good CSM's? Or that some F/A maybe a good CSS?

No....apparently the only ones who will get the job will be the suckholes, the ones who crawl up to the CCM's. Imagine if some of these guys and girls get the gig because they could be good at the role! Shocking to think..i know.

For god's sake... give these guys a chance. Some of you have already decided they will be no good before they have even announced who got it. What chance do some of these new guys stand!

[lowerlobe]

Sydney s/h I think you have misinterpreted my post.I'm sure there will be SOME good applicants however a number of supervisors I know have had their applications not supported.

Without exception these have been guys flying more than 20 years.The ones I know would make great CSM's but it looks like the company are using other demographics if you know what I mean.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to defend the company when it is obvious that they are not too interested in returning the loyalty shown to them.

[sydney s/h]

So perhaps you perceive me to "support the company" i will now be labelled management on some level of QCC.

Actually, Lowerlobe, it seems you have also misinterpreted my post. I am not supporting the company, rather, feeling sorry for a bunch of people who will get the promotions and have to put up with a pre-determined idea of how well they do the job.

[lowerlobe]

sydney s/h..If the company had an unbiased,transparent and ability based promotion program then those who get the job would have no problems with crew.They would have the respect of other crew.

However with the selection process the way it is then crew will know who got the job through ability and who got it through appointment.Those crew who were not supported by the company for promotion after years of loyal service have my sympathy.

Who knows if you really are crew or not but in less than a month it's not my problem anymore.

To those here who have flown for many years and are taking VR thanks for your company and work.They can never take away our memories .

To those who feel it is OK to work as a casual or in a base and for less pay and conditions than we did then it's all yours....

[sydney s/h]

So Lowerlobe,

For those of us staying does it mean we all support the company and its goals?

Or.... does it mean that we still have 20years of working ahead of us and don't have another job to go to??

Just hurry up and leave. Roll on 30 June.

[lowerlobe]

Ahh Yes 30th June..

Still a few NRT's to go then then the memories of Tahiti,Fiji,Athens in Summer and the Greek Islands.Skiing in Vancouver,Bahrain,Paris,Rome and even Belgrade was good especially in summer.Slips of more than 2 nights in LHR,long slips in Man and going up to the lakes district in summer...

Now to pick up the new boat ..Mmmmmm

But best of all is no more E.P's and standby's.....

Best of luck everyone...

[Butterfield8]

Open time has just lit up like Christmas Tree...all those trips from those departing and those being promoted.....Yippee!

[stubby jumbo]

Just got my phone call from one of the "Managers" ( cough !) to say that the VR numbers have been reduced by at least 50%.............

TOO BAD SO SAD !!!!!!

What tha???????

I thought I was over the line.:{:{

Therefore there are less CSM's who got the gig...."ttrickle down effect":rolleyes:

The LIST is out......only 8 spots for SYD ..the rest for MEL.
Rumour is that a few of the successful SYD guys were offered MEL and told them to "jam- it".

The "disappointees " have been called.

Training starts Monday........

The brother of "Hasim" got the gig.:mad::mad:

.................run away / run away

[lowerlobe]

Stubby..Did you get a letter first confirming you had VR then the phone call telling you the opposite?

[speedbirdhouse]

Is the brother of Hassim the one who speaks with forked tongue?. :eek:

[DEFCON4]

Hassims brother will go to MEL.....maybe someone should warn them?

[packrat]

Sounds like another monumental coque up.....no wonder no one in middle management stays longer than 5 years..
It is mildly entertaining though...if you work for another Airline.
QF management make other airline management look positively brilliant

[And5678]

Hey DEFCON...

Consider us warned!

Any distinguishing features we should be aware of?

:sad:

[stubby jumbo]

....his surname has an "EL-" in it.

Don't worry it won't take long for the "newies" to revert back to "type".

Even Rick W. ( after 36 yrs loyal service) went to MEL with a view of "doing it my ( QF) way" and was punted by management ( sneeze).

Gradually, week by week, fixing IFE's, apologising apologising, apologising, putting up with "some" over inflated ego's from the Left Hand drivers seat,KPI reviews, being pinged for 1 min delays, apologising, Kiwi crew, dodging "dobs", being junior-getting no choice-crap flying, no recognition,the B-safe journey, trying to juggle being a F/A on board + a manager etc etc...........day by day it will wear them down until finally they fit into the CSM current mould. ie:

DO THE BEST YOU CAN WITH WHAT YOU'VE GOT AND TRY YOUR HARDEST TO AVOID ANY CONTACT WITH THE CLOWNS ON QCC-1.

Welcome to Club... boys & girls.

[lowerlobe]

Stubby...You would hope so but remember that the thought police that are CSM's in Sydney are still anal after years of flying.I'm referring to Compactor man ,CE and SM just to mention a few.

You would think after having his shoe dissapear he would think again but no he is still the same.Thankfully I have not had to fly with them as CSM's but most crew do.

The last thing the company wants is a CSM that the crew like and respect...you can't have good morale now can we......

[stubby jumbo]

You're on the money there 'Lobe.

By the way to answer your last post.

Yes, I did receive the first letter of confirmation re: VR.

I'm not the only one :yuk: about this. I have already spoken to 3 others in the same boat.


Appparently the BOS guys are getting hammered this weekend !!!!

Meanwhile the Goons are off sipping their Chardies down at the Wooloomoloo Wharf.:hmm:

[DEFCON4]

1.There were around 30 individuals promoted to the position of CSM
2.Approximately 16 of these individuals were chosen not promoted...the interview process did not apply to them
3.17 are female
4.18 of these people are married to the business...they dont have families or a significant other.
5.10 will be fantastic..they were promoted not chosen
6.10 will try hard but just dont have the skills necessary
7.10 will be absolutely hopeless..they were chosen not promoted.
8.At least 6 people who were thought to be a shoe in missed out.
Opinion:
When you have a weak CSM and an experienced CSS the CSS will call the shots anyway.
The CSS position has evolved into a key position in the team.
Sometimes he/she has to stand up to an incompetent CSM.When the crew complain to the supervisor about the manager the supervisor must act.
Thie scenario is about to become more frequent.
Really the two positions should be combined creating one large more efficient pool of Onboard Managers(OMs).
Who operates at L2 or L1 should be decided by the individuals on the day.
Recency should also be take into account..4 trips not operating at L1 or L2 means that on the 5th you do.
The newly created pool should be monitored for a year.
Those that dont cut the mustard should be managed out of the position.
As the business grows over the coming years there will be more opportunities for promotion.
Lets hope that Ali,Alison,Lesley and Sam learn by the mistakes that they have made.
If they dont..... morale and service levels will plummet even further.
Promoting fools to positions of responsibilty is only setting them up to fail.

[twiggs]

Gee DEFCON4, you sure have your finger on the pulse!
Please enlighten us as to what you base your stats on?

And lowerlobe reckons I work in the office! Ha!

[DEFCON4]

Mouth Shut
Ears Open
Eyes Open
Try it some time

[Zeus Ex Machina]

"Promoting fools to positions of responsibility is only setting them up to fail"

[twiggs]

Mouth Shut
Ears Open
Eyes Open
Try it some time

That's funny, I told lowerlobe that's how I get my info.

[surfside6]

Three friends,all supervisors were not going to apply for promotion.
It was suggested to them by management that they should.
None did any preparation
All three were successful
All three are amazed
They have been offered MEL
All three have said no thanks
Something stinks

[outandabout]

Has anyone heard that no one who is a BFA were successful in their application for VR. Did this only apply to BFA's all other categories

[lowerlobe]

From Twiggsy girl....

"Mouth Shut
Ears Open
Eyes Open"

"That's funny, I told lowerlobe that's how I get my info"

The reason I know you work in the office Twiggsy is..

(1) You never criticise the company or management decisions...

(2) You only criticise those who are critical of the company

(3) You never or rarely comment on issues that are important to the industry such as the takeover etc....Yes I know you will say you don't know about these things so you don't comment.Maybe it is because you are in the office and won't comment

(4) You are always supportive of the company actions such as hiring MAM casuals which effectively reduces our flying and promotional prospects.

(5) The kicker was though when you posted information about a delayed MEL/NRT trip.

How did you know about the delay?
How did you know the details of what was offered to the L/H crew and what the reaction from the crew was?
How did you know that a S/H crew was called out?
How did you know the details of the pattern the S/H crew had..such as paxing to NRT and when that was?

Also remember about the pearls of wisdom such as..

"It is the destinations that are important and it aint the money!!!!

Then there was the comment about J* international not wanting or having to fit crew rest seats because there were perfectly good jump seats for the crew to use.

Defcon's post was one of supposition whereas your post especially the one about the NRT delay was one of specifics.

Oh yeah your crew and Kevin Rudd votes Liberal as well......

[Tropicalchief]

The system has been corrupted since it's inception. Anyone who thinks that they are selected on merit is deluding themselves. More often than not they are selected on the basis that they will do managements bidding, irrespective of whether it is right or wrong. The majority of FSD's/CSM's selected have been hopeless and created more problems than they resolved, particularly on board an aircraft, and that is precisely what management wanted. The strategy continues today, aided and abetted by greed and self-interest.

[lowerlobe]

Here is an invitation Twiggsy girl....

Tell us what you think about the CSM selection process.

[twiggs]

If you really want my opinion, which I doubt, then start by paying me the respect of using my correct username without the sexist additions.

[radiation junkie]

Well TWIGGS, are you going to give us your thought's or an excuse not to ?

[And5678]

Morning Everyone....

Who cares about the CSM/CSS promotions. It's all water under the bridge now. When the hell are they going to advertise for B First and action the transfer lists?

:rolleyes:

[Zeus Ex Machina]

The new management team had an opportunity to gain some credibility with the promotion process......instead we get more of the same.
The process was tainted and we get more dills promoted who eventually have to be counselled.
A prerequisite to be a CSM should be trust.Crew need to trust on board managers not ridicule them because they are inadequate.
50% of those promoted were useless as supervisors.
I feel sorry for junior crews who have to fly with them.

[lowerlobe]

Twiggsy girl,
I have respect for those who are what they say and not pretenders.

I have not asked who you are.
I have not suggested who you are.
I have only pointed out that you are not crew.

You STILL do not answer questions yet you do your best to criticise crew. At every turn you are willing to damage the position of crew.

You have mentioned crew who were alleged to have committed acts of theft. By the way the crew member who you said had no defence won his case. Will you people in the office ever win a clause 11 or dismissal?

I have asked how you know the complete details of the NRT delay yet you continually evade the question.

I have asked you a perfectly sensible and topical question regarding the CSM selection process and once again you prevaricate.

Once again I will reprint a post from Twiggsy girl and see if it sounds like cabin crew speaking or someone from the office…..

“The cabin/IFE log was outlined in a recent Cabin Standing Order.
When you sign on you are verifying that you have read these.
There are many copies of these in QCC1 and there is one in the blue folder for when you are on board.
There is also a paragraph in the technical section of the latest cabin crew news which basically says what Bolty has just mentioned.
You can access this from the cabin crew web site if you are not going to be in the office soon”

QED

[twiggs]

By the way the crew member who you said had no defence won his case

Has he really?
Please give specifics how you know this to be true.

[lowerlobe]

Well Twiggsy girl as you are in the office you should know!

As usual you office dwellers messed it up again as you have with every other case and will probably have to pay him out.

I think you said something like he doesn't stand a chance of winning, so again you are consistent(ly)wrong.You would not want him to come back to work and tell all the crew how he won now would you.

Don't let me change the subject for you though...as radiation junkie said are you going to answer any questions or are you going to prevaricate as usual.

Just to refresh our memories about Twiggsy's post here it is ....

In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.

It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.

The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD.

Does this sound like..

1: A F/A talking...or

2: Someone in the office...Mmmmmm I'm sure Twiggsy girl overheard all of these details when she picked up her uniform from her local dry cleaner....

[And5678]

Hello....

B First recruitment...

Transfers....

WHEN?

Oh and Twiggs, what's your view on the process and results of the latest CSS and CSM process?

[twiggs]

radiation junkie and And5678,
I don't know who got promoted and who applied and missed out so I can't comment on that.
I reckon though that the company would rather promote experienced people provided they are willing to "play the game".
If you really want the job, you have to, whether it's in your heart or not.
That is how we survive in this job, or any job, from day 1.
That includes taking the job no matter what base it is offered in.
So many incompetents were promoted in the past just because they were willing to take Perth or Melbourne.
In fact when BFirst was introduced, one comment made by someone in management was that when promoting for BFirst, they were not going to "lower the bar" like they had to when choosing CSM's for MEL and PER.

[radiation junkie]

Take it easy Lowerlobe, we don't want scare twiggs off, do we ? These office dwellers are easily spooked. Even if twiggs is CC, there are plenty of CC that spend every spare moment of their lives shimmying around the office for godknowswhat reason to ingratiate themselves to the "visitors" and other so called management wannabe's. It's a game of self worth or selfdom which usually ends in tears and disillusionment when even the most trusted of our office management shaft you to get their KPI indicators up to minimum Management Bonus levels. Our twiggs is acting like a WW2 double agent mixing with the enemy and living on the edge for the glory of god and country (read Qantas). It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it ! With the latest CSM induction, at least 50%+ of the successful applicants will fit this category. Galley gossip will become a reportable offence.

[radiation junkie]

Quote from twiggs.....In fact when BFirst was introduced, one comment made by someone in management was that when promoting for BFirst, they were not going to "lower the bar" like they had to when choosing CSM's for MEL and PER.....

What a laugh ! This logic must of course apply to all the new Bfirst being "promoted" in "Jitconnict World" and other LCC bases. Just shows how hypocritical and two faced Q management is.

[lowerlobe]

"These office dwellers are easily spooked"....

Your right Radiation Junkie, it certainly looks that way so I guess that confirms she is indeed a pencil pusher.She's probably upset about the guy winning his case against the company as well

Quote from twiggs.....

In fact when BFirst was introduced, one comment made by someone in management was that when promoting for BFirst, they were not going to "lower the bar" like they had to when choosing CSM's for MEL and PER.....

Thats right because Twiggsy would know if someone in the office said that....

Still no reply as usual from twiggsy girl but remember ...

"it's the destinations that are important and it aint the money"

[lowerlobe]

And5678...

"Who cares about the CSM/CSS promotions"...Well,you should seeing you have to fly with them.

Our point is that they may as well do away with the interview process and save the money and just have allocations give out the positions.

[And5678]

Hey Lowerlobe!

I share your frustration in the lack of transperancey with the CSM/CSS promotion/selection, however I find it hard to care for a process that from my perspective is flawed at times.

You're correct in saying that soon I will have to fly with the 'newbies'. Hopefully, a majority of them will be competent and enjoyable to fly with. With the one's that aren't, well, we are all well versed in dealing with 'village idiots'. Have done so in the past and will continue to in the future.

Now, anyone heard about B First recruitment and any possible movement in the transfer lists?

[twiggs]

For someone who doesn't think our destinations are what makes our job, you sure like to brag about them (and not the money) when reminiscing your career.
Still a few NRT's to go then then the memories of Tahiti,Fiji,Athens in Summer and the Greek Islands.Skiing in Vancouver,Bahrain,Paris,Rome and even Belgrade was good especially in summer.Slips of more than 2 nights in LHR,long slips in Man and going up to the lakes district in summer...

[lowerlobe]

Twiggsy Girl,it took you more than 4 hours to come up with that lame retort.

As usual you have not answered my question and then just like the spin department twisted and omitted the facts.

Yes you are right that I mentioned some of the wonderful slip ports we used to fly to.However,it was your quote that these ports are the only things of importance.

In particular you said that the "money ain't important"

Well,not only did we fly to those places but we did it with a 75% standown and the money....something which as usual you failed to mention.

By the way,are you going to answer any questions or are you going to confirm everyones suspicions that you work in the office...

[roamingwolf]

don't stress lobey
mate most of us know that twix is not crew and could be anything from a checkout chick at woolies to one of the visitors at qcc1.so who cares what she says.

she will never answer your questions just like the clowns in the office and ducks for cover when put on the spot.

[twiggs]

I hope the chocky bandit wins his case, but it serves him no justice to announce he has won when there has been no judgement passed yet.

[lowerlobe]

Twiggsy Girly..

First, I did not mention his name nor the case !!

Secondly,Since he has not been convicted of anything,only someone in the office would call him the chocky bandit.You are playing judge,jury and executioner.

You seemed to have no qualms about raising the issue on pprune some months ago.

Still waiting for the answer as to how you knew ALL the details about the NRT delay

[twiggs]

All pieced together from conversations at "the Barge"

[lowerlobe]

Twiggsy …You overheard all of this between drinks at the Barge Inn….

“In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.

The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD”…….

Yeah that’s entirely believable…

Here are some other pearls of wisdom from Twiggsy..


“The cabin/IFE log was outlined in a recent Cabin Standing Order.
When you sign on you are verifying that you have read these.
There are many copies of these in QCC1 and there is one in the blue folder for when you are on board.

There is also a paragraph in the technical section of the latest cabin crew news which basically says what Bolty has just mentioned.
You can access this from the cabin crew web site if you are not going to be in the office soon”

“The slipping formula, as it stands, will be very hard to retain”

“the minimum length of it being 46hrs is probably difficult to justify”

“By the way, the slipping formula dictates 46 hrs minimum, not 2 local nights”…..

This was a good one. Does anyone know of anywhere except the polar regions that does not experience 2 local nights in 46 hours?????

Anyone heard about the 2 Aust based guys stood down for providing their own specialised service to a 17 year old girl in the cabin crew rest seats on a LHR flight?.....

Even Emirates have no crew rest seats on their 777's.
Jet* Asia definitely do not have them and I can't imagine Jet* international would waste valuable pax seats to put crew in when they have perfectly good jump seats to sit in….

The only question is what office you work in!!!

[stubby jumbo]

'lobe.........time to give Twiggs the flick -she's getting to you AND believe me she ain't worth it !!!!!!:ouch:

Now back to the thread title.

My source reliably informed me that the first 2 days have been -FULL ON !!!.

Apparently it has been the usual passing parade of Talking Heads rabbiting on about Goals, Future strategy and Cost of capital:confused:.
Anyway Defcon's prediction re: certain individuals appears to be on the money.
I have to be careful here and not say too much, 'cause as the Goons trawl thru Pprune every morning -they may just id the CSM in the group ( my informer) and nail him/her for Treason.

Stay tuned for the next installment.

[speedbirdhouse]

Don't tell me QF have given the job to someone capable of independant thought.......:{

If discovered they'll be "keel hauled" for sure.

Be careful not to give them up Stubby Jumbo. As far as managers go they are a dying breed.

[lowerlobe]

I'd like to know how they are condensing the previous CSM course into 2 weeks.Maybe they have accepted that most of what the training section does is BS.

The hard part in these courses is that you are either trying to stop throwing up or taking No Doz to stop falling asleep depending on who is droning on at the front of the class.

Must admit I'm jealous at the thought that these guys only have to put up with it for 2 weeks though.Then again if they have "picked" the candidates no amount of training will change them....and if most of the visitors have had no experience of flying then why should expect them to pick suitable candidates.

[roamingwolf]

Boys and Girls it's going to be fun watching the new 'candidates' up the track.

any truth in the rumour that CB's (compactor boy) missus is or has come over from domestics.

hey lobey i might hang out more at the barge and see what i can hear.mate it sounds incredible what you can overhear while having a cold one.i reckon i might hear next weeks lotto numbers.what a joke

FOT

[DEFCON4]

In the next three years a large number of aircraft will arrive.
The mainline network will grow and frequencies to destinations will increase.
This will lead to an increase in crew numbers and the and promotions
Admittedly the increase in numbers will largely be casuals and off shore bases.
I wold hope that in order to maintain the product's integrity most of the promotions will come from experienced Australian based crew.
So hang in there...If you missed promotion this time there should be plenty of ooportunity in the future.
Hopefully the current crew management will realise that they have blundered with some of the recent "chosen ones"and the promotion process will become more honest and transparent.
"Promoting fools to positions of responsibility is setting them up to fail"
It also discredits the promotion process.

[twiggs]

Lowerlobe you had better admit that the chocky bandit has not yet won or lost his case, as I am sure you are misleading many people by this claim.

[lowerlobe]

Information coming in is that BFirst crew have had their VR applications cancelled .....

Whether this is all BFirst crew or just some is of course hard to find out unless you work in the office...:E:E:E:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[surfside6]

The only category to have all VR approved was CSMs
No BFirst FA received VR.
Some people ready to leave now need to stay.
Gee wont they be happy?

[lowerlobe]

I know of some senior bluecoats that have VR ...so far that is.

Do you know any numbers ?

We need to talk to crew who have been to the Barge Inn lately :rolleyes:

FOT

[sydney s/h]

Roaming,

not only is she in longhaul now, she has been there for about 2years.

All yours! Enjoy her...of course i will miss her broken english PA's, her poor management skills, her whinging........etc........

[roamingwolf]

sydney s/h
hah sounds just like cb himself
thanks for the goss.does she use the same name as compactor boy?
mate i'm lucky not to bump into her.with my luck she'll be on my next trip.
is she a f/a or nah don't tell me she's a csm or css:yuk:
has anyone flown with cb's missus.is she a pain like cb.she'd better keep her shoes in the bunk when sh'e having a kip
hey lobey what do you reckon she might go tothe barge for info and post here lol
FOT

[sydney s/h]

I dont know if i'm allowed to post peoples names on here. She uses a different name though - not ending in B. She is asian and has a very asian name.

She is an economy worker (i use the term worker very loosely). Quite senior with around 30years.

Goodluck! If you want me to PM you her name then let me know.

[roamingwolf]

thanks for the offer and i've sent you a pm.

FOT

[surfside6]

The QF Cabin Crew department is now being run by ex check out chicks and shelf stackers.
The promotion process which is now almost complete is a complete mess.
Just look at those promoted and those who were promoted and knocked it back
Not one crew member was involved in the process
Not one crew member is training these people.
Who trains a pilot?.....another pilot
Who trains a bricklayer?......another bricklayer
Who trains a QF CSM?........an ex shelf stacker.
Their success is guaranteed.......to fail.
The quality of decision making and problem solving is going to be....you guessed it...abysmal.
Dont the check out chicks trust any of the incumbent CSMs to do a great
job training these poor devils?
Perhaps they are concerned that they may teach them how to be strong independent leaders.
This is what you need in an extremely competitive environment.
A CSM comes into contact with the captains of industry in this and other countries.
The graduates of Check Out Chick College will be ill eqipped to deal with CEOs and Chairman of companies like BHP,IBM and the major investment banks.
The fall out will be of cataclysmic proportions.
This is about to become a most interesting spectator sport.
Which CSM made a monumental stuff up this week ?
They will not receive any support from the Check Out Chicks.
Poor Sods (the Pax).
Wake Up Geoff!!....intervene before QF becomes a bigger laughing stock than it already is.

[twiggs]

You lot can't even wait and see how it all pans out before you bag it can you?
You think that when you used to bid up to FSD you got a higher quality of candidate?
Morons slip through the net with any procedure, you lot are good examples of that.

[speedbirdhouse]

Rumour has it the the ex DJ hostie is "cock a hoot" over the whole process and firmly of the belief [read delusion] that these are the best candidates ever selected.

The inherent problem with the whole process is that cabin crew management have [cough] overwhelmingly "anointed" mirror images of themselves.

A handfull of them will cope and cope well.

As for the others............"price check on aisle 11!"

Perhaps the selection process was carried out with the view to establishing the relevence of the current crop of CCTMs and CCMs???

They ARE after all, going to be busy.:{

[roamingwolf]

boys and girls
if they are using visitors instead of real crew maybe that is why they shortened the csm training to 2 weeks from 5 because they don't know that much themselves.
even then i reckon they would be hard put to fill a 2 weeks course with what they know.

FOT

[DEFCON4]

1.(a)This is the ONLY promotional process these people have ever been involved in for QF.
(b)they are the best group to be promoted this year...the only group
2.This new group are the "baseline".
3.Give them 12 months and see where they are at
4.The new CSSs should be announced soon
5.These are potential CSMs and could be promoted within 12 months if aircraft arrive on time
6.We could have a situation of the blind being led by the nearsighted.
7.There is no substitute for experience...never has been never will be.
8.Promoting the inexperienced without adequate training is a recipe for disaster
9.There are already rumblings in this first group of "I think I have made a mistake"...2 or 3 are already considering their positions.
10.The gloss has worn off pretty bloody quickly...it usually takes 6 weeks on line before it happens.

[surfside6]

The CSS position promotion process has been reopened.
This could mean:
not enough candidates applied
no one wants to go anywhere but Sydney
the earlier process was tainted
not enough brown spots applied.
Who in their right mind would want to be a CSS?
80% of the pax,50% of the crew 90% of the problems.
Ouch!!

[roamingwolf]

you just gotta laugh.they never tell you how many people applied or got vr.
they never tell you how many applied for css or csm.
they work out a plan that no actual crew train new csm's
they decide to do this with only a few weeks to apply then if you get it you have to move to mel.
they decide after telling us all about 150 spots for vr that they can't let that many go.
1 csm i know actually wanted to cancel his application for vr and they told him he can't get out of it now.even though there maybe other crew who still want to go.
now they reopen the css process again.i reckon since this is being worked out by a ex VB hostie they are probably giving the crew face painting exercises in the interview and none passed it.
it really is a mushroom factory
surfside i'll tell you who would go for the jacket down the back and thats the onesd who crave power and think there is some at left 2or 4

FOT

[And5678]

Why delay announcing who was successful for CSS promotion? You either have the quality to make the grade or not. If sufficient numbers were not attained, promote and train those who were successful and address the issue at a later time. How on earth is reopening the process going to make any difference to those that have just jumped through the hoops?

Me smells a rat!

[surfside6]

Just trust us.
We know whats best for you..heh heh heh !!
We particularly know whats best for us.
The two are mutually exclusive.
Oops! Did we say that?
AW LG ST

[stubby jumbo]

................this is all starting to look like "Comedy Capers".

I was really hoping that this could be the new Management (wheeze) groups -"time to shine" !.

But no-its a lame ,slap dash attempt at being different .....just for the sake of it.

As expected the 2 programs going thru are turning farcical.

The Trainers ( as has being stated ) have zero experience as operating crew. They have been caught out on numerous occasions having NO IDEA what a CSM is supposed to be doing.................its all big picture stuff.

Apparently there is an EX-CSM/Line Controller coming in to do some bit of the training next week. ME THINK THIS AMAZING.
Its probably going to be Rick -he always saw himself as a Line Controller:rolleyes:
GO THE SAINTS.

The CSS selection is a total debacle.

No matter what we say on here ................I think we are stuck with the shelf packers.

If there is one good thing in all of this................its the script writers for the Cabin Crew Revue are going to have HEAPS of material......it will be a hoot !!!!


Any suggestions for names ?????????:E:E

[And5678]

All we need is 'Yakety Sax' (Benny Hill Theme) to be piped through on QCC1 and the scene would be complete!

[Shlonghaul]

Quote: All we need is 'Yakety Sax' (Benny Hill Theme) to be piped through on QCC1 and the scene would be complete!

And5678 :D :D :D Could'nt agree more!! :ok:

[lowerlobe]

It's a pity then that the usual Benny Hill girls are nowhere to be seen in the office although the comedy routine is everywhere....

[stubby jumbo]

........latest word from Stalag 4 is that one of the captives have fled the group of 28.

Reason ???????:suspect::suspect:???????????:mad:

Apparently one of the groups ( with trainer-Colonel Klink ) have been subjected to all sorts "treatment" this week. The result is that tensions are running very very high......... almost to breaking-"out" point.

The ex-DJ hostie has been like a cat on a hot tin roof this week darting in and out unleashing the latest according to Il Duce.

Hang in there guys ...............only a week or so go then you will be over the fence into.......... the never never:uhoh:

[roamingwolf]

i reckon that the mushroom factory is a bit like Benny Hill and Hogans Heroes.with crew having it all over the office guards and getting the job done the right way as soon as the dunlops are up.

i reckon fat boy slim would have to be in with a chance to be schultz.
it's a shame that we don't pick the important stuff we use like ife instead of klinks second hand home stereo.the punters would be better off for sure

FOT

[DEFCON4]

One has had the courage of their convictions and left the pool
Two more are considering it .
Well done Uber Mismanagement(aka Checkout Chicks +Shelf Stackers)
Which pretty much makes it official...the CSM position has no credibility
The rot has set in...after week one
There is a 6 month probationary period
Any one care to start a book on how many make it?

[lowerlobe]

I wonder if the person who voluntarily left the CSM promotional course will be given a clause 11.He is obviously a dissident and will need some form of discipline.

They will also want to recoup the money spent on face painting,group excercises and so on....

[cokecropduster]

:} NRT's are going back to LH crew from next month. Very interesting! Wonder why?

[roamingwolf]

cropduster
your leading with your chin on this one mate.i reckon it's because they were getting too many complaints when s/h did them..who knows pal,carmen does a lot of wierd stuff.

[surfside6]

Crew Management have no skill set to run anything.
They are pen pushing administrators ruled by KPIs
They are all recent employees who,apart from an ex DJ domestic hostie,have no "in the air" airline experience.
No one has an MBA which is minima for any management position.
At least Winnie was hands on and apart from being a little naive was a damn fine manager.
What you have now are individuals that should be sharpening pencils in the Woolies stationery counter.
They do have ambition though...not much else

[DEFCON4]

The "Nighties of the Round Table"
Thats the problem in a nutshell
Whenever there is an imbalance of male/females in a management situation you will always have problems.
Too much touchy feely and not enough practical objective perspective.
The hell with political correctness.
This lot want androgeny.
Just look at this "pool" of prospective CSMs..androgeny is safe...ineffective...but safe.
In an environment of constant change you dont want safe..you need energy motivation inspiration charisma and leadership.
There are none of these qualities at the round table.
Just remember "Pantyhose is the closest thing to a Dixon"
There is a lot of pantyhose at the round table

[outandabout]

If the managers at LH were in the real word they would not survive. They have no idea of how to "manage" any one let alone the unique situation of managing cabin crew. Cabin crew are different from, say the check out chick, cabin crew need someone as a manager who have the experience of at least working on a Qantas aircraft as cabin crew member (or any airline that does a full service not the "no frills" type of service). Do they no realise that cabin crew are the "front line" if passengers get good service they come back. This happens in every line of business not just the airline business.

[lowerlobe]

Under the freedom of information act here is a transcript of a recent job interview somewhere in Mascot.

Interviewer: Good morning ,take a seat and here is your uniform,manuals etc….
Applicant: Good Morning,…. err…,don’t I have to pass this interview first?

Interviewer:Sorry..err yes..This is a first for us as well…
Applicant:OK well I’m ready to go

Interviewer:What questions would you like me to ask you?
Applicant:This has got to be the best interview I’ve ever had.Ok ask me about the job.

Interviewer: Yes,well why do we want to give you the job?
Applicant:Don’t you mean why do I want the job?

Interviewer:Ohh..Ok ..sorry.I forgot my role..sorry .I’ll go along with this then.. so why do you want this job?
Applicant:I think I will be an asset to the company and look good in the tie and jacket.

Interviewer:Excellent…..price check on aisle four…sorry I miss the supermarket…How long did you work on the BOS desk?
Applicant:….errr we worked there together for 4 years….

Interviewer:How would you motivate and discipline a crew member?
Applicant:That’s easy they are both the same…clause 11’s for both.

Interviewer:OK…That’s right.What do you think are the benefits of being a CSM?
Applicant:Well,I have first shot at any food from up the front and a beaut little seat I can read the telegraph and eat at the same time.The phone is right next to me and I can have my paper work so it looks like I’m doing my job.

Interviewer:Very droll…Your serious aren’t you? Do we really have a seat for the CSM?
Applicant:Yes,it’s at the CSM station….you know under the stairs…

Interviewer:Oh now I know your joking…we don’t have stairs…..Do we?????
Applicant:Yeah,that’s how you get to the upper deck…..

Interviewer:We have an upper deck????
Applicant:Well,on a 747 we do

Interviewer:Ok well lets move on to a hypothetical situation.What would you do if the aircraft was delayed and you were short first class catering by 3.
Applicant:Errr…. I’m not sure..what do you think I should do?

Interviewer:Well,we don’t know either that’s why we are asking you.We had this situation the other day and none of us knew what to do.This sort of thing never happens when you are stocking shelves.
Applicant:I suppose we could give out free car wash vouchers…

Interviewer:Well, we have no idea either so if you can think of anything give us a call.Have you any questions for us?
Applicant:Yes …Is there any face painting in the training course?

Interviewer:Yes,in fact we have a number of group exercises planned.Face painting is on day 2 and obviously before the uniforms are issued.We have group hugs on day 3 and we play twister on day 4.We really are having trouble filling in the 2 weeks so if you can think of anything we can do let me know.
Applicant:Well,there is always the tours of the terminal and the jetbase.

Interviewer:Hang on that’s a great idea,that will take a day easily.
Applicant:What about a few pre departures and a famil trip to AKL?

Interviewer:Sorry,our budget is only $12.57 per day.
Applicant:When will I know if I have been successful in my application?

Interviewer:OH that’s easy .That was decided about 2 weeks ago….let’s go over to uniforms and we can get your measurements…MMmmmm

[stubby jumbo]

.....'could not agree more with the sentiments discussed thus far.

These Clowns are really doing my head in.

Last week I asked one of them ( Lurch) if it was possible to sign off for a new jacket as mine was almost in tatters ( after being Dry Cleaned to death !!! ).
Anyway she said:
"its not too bad .......come back in 1-2 months for a re evaluation".:hmm:

OK, fine then. If you want me to front pax with a uniform jacket that looks like some bum would wear in Belmore Park.....fine by me . BUT, please make sure you brief the new CSM's coming off the "LOST" island that this is the new standard , 'cause as sure as hell I'll be the bunny who'll get pinged on their first trip as a sign that they are achieveing their KPI's.

I'm really hoping that we have a massive RESTRUCTURE soon in cabin crew and we have a total flush out to purge us of this Management ( weeze ) team:8

[captainrats]

To add to the interesting mix: 2 LHR returnees have also been promoted to the CSM role.
Didnt think that was possible.

[RedTBar]

The rules were that you came home and were re-instated to the same rank or position that you were prior to taking LWOP and moving to LHR.They could very well have been back and operating in their previous category and then applied for the CSM position.

The question is how long have they been back?

[radiation junkie]

....To add to the interesting mix: 2 LHR returnees have also been promoted to the CSM role. .....
Anything's possible if you have clocked up enough brownnose points, especially on the LHR basing which is a financial fiasco, but a management success story ! But then again, they could have been qualified individuals with the right experience and qualifications for the CSM position. Just like the other special Qantas management chosen ones. CAVE CANUM !

[roamingwolf]

all i know is that they only have promotions every 10,000 years then when they do they offer it to their mates and even if you get lucky you have to move to mel.fanbloodytastic

[DEFCON4]

Since dixon has been CEO there has been an agenda to destroy the Cabin Crew Culture.
By destroying the culture he has also overseen a decline in the quality of service provided.
Essentially crew needed to trust each other and their manager(FSD/CSM call it what you will)
There also needed to be cohesion.
Trust has evaporated as the domestic culture of "dobbing" has infiltrated into Longhaul.
Cohesion is also long gone with casuals, AKL and BKK based crew being indignant at being paid less for doing the same job.
The "Us and Them" mentality does not augur well for service excellence.
Now we have the jobs for the chosen ones.
Having seen the list 5 are trustworthy and one of those has just withdrawn from training(with more to follow).
It has dawned on some that they are merely stooges for the ground based hedgehogs.
It peeves current management that they have little contol over service delivery.
The more they try the more service levels deteriorate.
There is no trust anywhere.
CYA(cover your ass) is now de rigeur.
The environment is toxic.
It will become worse with arrival of the "elite fleet"(A380)
The crew operating on these aircraft will be "chosen".
If you want to continue to fly to LAX start getting cosy with a visitor now.
Everything comes around... all the toadies eventually lose their shine and reality dawns.
Remember folks ...you are a necessary evil.
If they could get away with it QF would employ Kalahari Bushmen at $10 a month.
You are just a number..not a person. Not a trusted employee.
As the Chairman of Mac Bank so quaintly put it ...you are a "unit of work"
Welcome to the brave/ new toxic world of Qantas.

[mrpaxing]

:{:{:{so true

[mach2male]

The application deadline for the CSS postion has been extended.
Why?
The quality of candidate has been rubbish.
It would appear that most contenders have no idea of just exactly what a CSS does.
It is from this pool that CSMs are drawn.
The future availability of quality CSMS looks pretty grim.
There is going to be lot of promotion over the next few years.
If the quality of candidates is so poor locally perhaps the off shore bases may offer up a few aspirants.
This is a great spectator sport.
Perhaps some of the visitors may have to go out online and show how its done.
There would be many who would love to submit a behavioural review of an online visitor.
Perhaps then they may understand why so many are totally disengaged.
C'Mon Tarantella..get out that old DJ frock and show how the professionals do it .

[stubby jumbo]

......the reason why they are scratching for "quality CSS's" and they can't find them is there has been ABSOLUTELY NO DEVELOPMENT/TRAINING for any aspiring person in the interim/past 5 year period.
If these Clowns were serious about "quality" they would be doing what most large corporations do and that is......INVEST $$$$$$ IN THEIR PEOPLE.

Its called succession planning you dopes.

Tech crew have it, jnr managers have it...............but alas for the Tea & Coffee professionals.................'just give 'em crap programs like EXCEPTIONAL ( what a cock up that was??!!)

Anyway, let this be (another) lesson for our incompetent fools ( read Managers -hiccup). If you want quality.............:

Have a Plan
Spend $$$$
Give us some meaningful development programs-not some half baked slop that is wacked together on a Friday 'arvo @ Biggles.
End of lecture.

[Zeus Ex Machina]

During the recent CSM interview process your manager was asked to "support" or "acknowledge" your application.
Many of those who were successful were not supported.
Also during your annual review you are rated from one to five,with 3 being average and 2 as underperformer.
A number of those successful wre rated as 2.
Therefore "ceterus paribus" your manager's opinion counts for......ZIP!
Managers credibility now......minus zero...an imaginary number.
Time for some introspection visitors...not ours....yours.
"A few were promoted but many were chosen"

[stubby jumbo]

..............'word just in from Stalag 4 is that Colonel Klink is really doing EVERYONE's heads in!!!

His "exhortations from high" apparently rival Moses on the Mount. Only problem is...... ........he hasn't a clue of what the actual 10 commandments are?:ugh:

Apparently not satisfied with the "usual" role plays.......they are using innovative methods of training.............wait for it !!!!???

Trained professional actors as F/A's:D:D to help the aspiring CSM's practice "kicking ass".

I would of thought that it would of been a cheaper option to call a REAL F/A from standby............no acting required and damn cheaper to boot.

I might just call Actors Equity to see if they approve one of their own dressing up in QF uniform.
Maybe the FAAA should sign them up.......we need all the members we can get

[lowerlobe]

Stubby....Who are you referring to as Klink?...

Is it Action Jackson by chance?

You don't have to mention the full name just pm me with the initials..

[mrpaxing]

i would like to know as well who klink might be.............pm thanks

[cartexchange]

yes who is Klink

[stubby jumbo]

.............and so it has come to an end.

The prisoners of Stalag 4 have all fled the compound.

Not before the "Black Widow" came in to give them one last "warning",
ie.. she said.."quote" :


Seniority......."I am determined to rid this curse from Cabin Crew"
A-380..........." A dedicated group of crew will staff this fleet"
EBA..............." We are still not competitive with SQ or EK.....hence things will need to change. We will not be issuing AWA's, however, we will need to get more efficiencies".Enjoy your flying boys and girls whilst you can. There is a brave new world ahead.

Special Thanks to my double -agent on the "inside" for this intelligence.

[lowerlobe]

We have always known that the company or rather the one who is running CC at whatever time would like to rid themselves of seniority.There has always been an incentive for them to win this.Rumor has it that Winnie was promised a BMW if she managed to achieve certain "goals".

Whether or not they succeed is another matter.Personally I feel that the only way for CC to survive is for not only the amalgamation of both FAAA divisions but also L/H and S/H.While ever there are two bodies of CC the company will play one against the other.

They are doing this with the threat of a dedicated A-380 crew.You would think that the cost of a seperate crew would be counter productive but by having another group they will continue to play divide and conquer.

I feel sorry for all the crew that are not taking VR and have to deal with an antagonistic and belligerent employer.

I wish you all the best.

[mrpaxing]

a number of operational problems if QF decides to have a dedicated crew on the A380;
small base like mel doing initially 2 week to lax- sin sit around in lax/sin for days.
if someone goes sick where are the replacements, holidays,
there are only 4/A 380 in the first year
as far as i am concerned its all smoke screen, a little pressure for the upcoming eba:ugh:
but i totally agree with ll, it is imperative to get both unions together for the greater good of all. if onlyh thepersonal egos did not get in the way mhmmhm;)

[DEFCON4]

The only curse that affects CC is the current management and their self characterized"divine right to to (mis)manage"

[twiggs]

a number of operational problems if QF decides to have a dedicated crew on the A380;
small base like mel doing initially 2 week to lax- sin sit around in lax/sin for days.
Dedicated crew does not mean they would operate the A380 exclusively.
I'm sure CARMEN could work out a pattern whereby they operate one way on the 380 and back on something else.
It will probably work the other way too as I reckon we will all be EP trained on the 380, for the case of operating out of category.

[mrpaxing]

a point twiggs. however given the current stuff ups with the roster system ( by 3q08 they want to introduce a different bidsystem, subject to eba negotiated outcomes)it may not be that easy. as i said before consider standby's, upline sickness,etc, should give operations an interesting time. ;)
as far as i am concerned i am not rushing to apply for it. given the history of new aircraft introductions into QF, one can expect a few minor(giggle:O) stuffups.:eek:

[mamslave]

I know this is not related to long haul, but new mam contract c crew will be bonded from 1 July! for 2 years

seems that qantas/mam are losing too many crew. 20 resignations in the last month network wide

good luck!

[lowerlobe]

Quote from twiggsy

“Dedicated crew does not mean they would operate the A380 exclusively”

dedicated: • (of a thing) exclusively allocated to or intended for a particular service or purpose

Well, if the company calls the crew dedicated then that would generally mean that they only operate that aircraft type.Then again how many times have the company said one thing and done the exact opposite.

I still believe that it would cost too much money to have separate crews from both an operational sense and from the efficiency perspective at least until there are enough 380’s to justify a dedicated crew.

However,with over 30 years of watching the company in action you usually pick the most sensible,logical and pragmatic solution to a problem and then they will pick the opposite.

[mrpaxing]

red in my hand i applaude that comment:D

[speedbirdhouse]

:D:D:D:D:D

[Shlonghaul]

Encore! :D :D :D :D :D ........ Another bottle of red chaps?

[surfside6]

So what alternative to seniority do these turkeys propose?
You can bet it wont be beneficial...for us

[stubby jumbo]

How often have we seen this slogan get trotted out by this management( belch) "team".?

My bet is we'll go back to the future and go back to a allocated roster system .....a la pre-1988......similar to what our esteemed comrades have up in Club UK ltd.

Nothing surprises me any more with this lot.

It was only last week when one of them came into our briefing to present a LSL badge ......and during the "spiel" got the persons name wrong not once , not twice, but THREE F----'N TIMES.
And you know what.........no one laughed.
We all just folded our arms,grimaced and waited for the buffoon to exit.
The CSM then said,"don't worry, we'll celebrate ------- 15 yrs service with drinks in my room tonight."
Nice recovery:D

Can SYD-L/H be a "self directed/managed" base?

We don't NEED these people.:*

[mrpaxing]

more layers then a danish pastry. that is LG strategie. every year or so there will be an official restructure (looks good to the public/shareholder) and surprise surprise 6 month after the restructure there a similar amounts of managers "visiting". titles change not the numbers.:oh:

[roamingwolf]

Dedicated crew does not mean they would operate the A380 exclusively.

twix

can you make up your mind .the crew are either dedicated or they are not

FOT

[Shlonghaul]

Hi Guys,
Time for some light relief.......err I mean a laugh. :E


HOW TO SAVE THE AIRLINES

Dump the male flight attendants. No one wanted them in the first place. Replace all the female flight attendants with good-looking strippers! What the heck...... They don't even serve food anymore, so what's the loss?

The strippers would at least triple the alcohol sales and get a "party atmosphere" going in the cabin. And, of course, every businessman in this country would start flying again, hoping to see naked women. Which then means more bosses out of the office!!!

Because of the tips, female flight attendants wouldn't need a salary, thus saving even more money. I suspect tips would be so good that we could charge the women for working the plane and have them kick back 20% of the tips, including lap dances and "special services."

Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes for fear of seeing n@ked women. Hijackings would come to a screeching halt, and the airline industry would see record revenues.

This is definitely a win-win situation if we handle it right --- a golden opportunity to turn a liability into an asset. Why didn't Bush think of this? Why do I still have to do everything myself?

Sincerely,

Bill Clinton

[lowerlobe]

I always thought Bill would be someone I would like to have a beer or two with.

Can you imagine though if the airlines agreed to this.

Can you just see the type of women that "our " company would hire?????

[Shlonghaul]

LL
Perhaps those with the initials LR?? Ohhh they've already done that twice! :E

[lowerlobe]

The line about couldn't organise a chook raffle comes to mind......:hmm:

[prunezeuss]

The Newbies are emerging from the Stalag and are venturing out online with a
"Mentor".
Upward feedback anybody ?
The more I see the names the more I cringe.
A few years one of the "chosen ones" had to be taken aside and told not to bag Qantas to the customers.
If you arent a member of the "Magic Circle Club"your chances of promotion are zilch.
The team managers have also realized that their support for a candidate means absolutely nothing.
So much for their relevance in the promotional process.
Lewis Carroll couldnt have written a better story.
If AW wears a hat to work it will the......?

[capt.cynical]

Is that anything like a "DAISY CHAIN" ?:rolleyes::yuk::ooh:

[prunezeuss]

I believe it works like this.....a ride there for a ride back

[lowerlobe]

Would that ride be up in the queens castle on the fourth floor?

[H_Girl]

Does any one know if the new CSS's have been told if they have the job yet?

[lowerlobe]

They probably are going to try and make the appointment...sorry the selection process look fair and reasonable.

[mrpaxing]

the girls/ guys who have been successful in getting the postion been told to keep their traps shut until the end of the training.:E

[DEFCON4]

We wouldnt want any honesty or transparency would we?
The truth will always out...QCC leaks like a sieve

[lowerlobe]

Your right DEFCON4 the clowns in the office could not organise a chook raffle.

However,the real issue here is WHY do they want the appointees to keep mum about the process?

If there were no irregularities in the appointee ....sorry I mean the promotional process then there would not be any need for secrets.

As it stands the office is a mix of Fawlty Towers,Hogan's Heroes and the Benny Hill show.

If this wasn't real life it would be funny....

ps Has anyone else noticed how little we hear from LG these days?

[speedbirdhouse]

Surely QF management [cough] are proud of their new managers and would want the kudos for selecting such excellence ???

Wouldn't they?

[mach2male]

Only those who are relatively junior would be interested in a promotion.
There is no benefit in becoming a CSM.
You get no support whatsoever from management{sic}.
But you WILL get a phone call in your room while you are asleep to explain the 60 sec delay in departure from your last port..
The fall from "chosen one" to "shafted one" will be swift.
Most of thes poor devils already have little resect or credibility due to the promotional process and its lack of transparency.
The CSM position is not the position it once was.
You are now nothing more than a clerk/punching bag/flight attendant.
The flight deck are going to receive a lot more phone calls from these guys because the newbies are poorly trained and indecisive.
They have been set up to fail.

[DEFCON4]

QF is on the brink of some enormous growth over the next few years.
The opportunity for promotion will be significant.
Unfortunately there has been no people developement for years.
The quality of candidate for both onboard mangement positions will accordingly be very poor.
Twelve months as a CSS and you are a contender for promotion to the red tie/scarf.
Time for team flying methinks...pick a half dozen mates and fly together

[lowerlobe]

OR.....

If you did not take VR this time,the rumor is of another package before the end of the year.

[mrpaxing]

the package will be tied to the EBA. since QF had another profit upgrade i wonder how much longer they carry on about how difficult times are and how expensive crews are. dont believe all the BS.:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

........"dont believe all the BS"

After 1981 I never have.....

[DEFCON4]

A barrister once told me that "secrecy was the shroud of incompetence"
Most appropriate to QF management

[lowerlobe]

There has just been an excellent 2 part program on the 6 day war between Israel and most of it's neighbours.

If you look at how the Arabs managed the conflict and the way the Israeli's did it gives you some idea of secrecy.

The Israeli intelligence always has a cloak of secrecy but then so did the Arabs.

The difference though was that the Israeli's knew what they were doing.As they say it if wasn't for the crew doing the job and fixing the problems up the track the company would have gone bust years ago.If we did the job the way the office wanted it .......nothing would work.

I noticed the other day that VB was advertising for someone to run their cabin crew department.Maybe one of us should balance the equation seeing that an ex hostie from VB is running us....

[radiation junkie]

What! And make VB crew as disengaged as Qantas crew. Would not wish that on anyone !!

[outandabout]

It is really amazing how a VB flight attendant can now be the Manager of QF Longhaul, not only for SYD but for AKL, BKG etc with what qualification? I would like to know how to get that job. What qualification has a VB flight attendant got above a QF flight attendant?

[prunezeuss]

Essentially this individual is where she is for two reasons:
1.She is an outsider. Albeit with no qualifications
2.She is there by default.The individual who was originally chosen was unable to accept the position for personal reasons.
The original choice would have performed infinitely better.
The incumbent will not be in this position by the middle of 2008.
By the middle or end of 2008 there will yet an other reshuffle of QF CC management.
They are not performing
Customer surveys indicate that there is a major problem with QF service(Choice is but one)
LG is on thin ice.
When Dixon leaves in 2009 the domino effect will be initiated company wide.
The deck chairs on the Titanic will be reorganized but you will have less ice in your glass.

[lowerlobe]

The company has a history of filling vacancies with candidates without qualifications or ability.

They do this for a number of reasons..

1:They do not want anyone with imagination or ability
2:They want someone who is a 'YES' person and will rubber stamp orders from above
3:They do not want to pay the required or expected salary for someone with a track record and qualifications.

ST is an ex hostie
Winnie was an ex hostie etc.......

[sydney s/h]

Hey Lowerlobe,
now 30 June has been and gone are you now out of the flying kangaroo?

[lowerlobe]

"now 30 June has been and gone are you now out of the flying kangaroo"

Is the Pope a catholic?

That's a big YES......As of midnight on Saturday....;)

[And5678]

Quite simply we haven't had enough amusement come from Level 4 at QCC with both the CSM and CSS recruitment. What are the chances that the comedy will continue with a BFA selection occuring anytime soon?

It would seem logical considering there is no flexibility within the category (eg. no BFA was successful in gaining VR nor tempoary part time). If this does occur, do you think they would action the base transfer lists as they have done with the CSM & CSS positions?

Any thoughts....

[lowerlobe]

Were Bfirst crew told that they were not able to apply for VR from the start or was it a late thought from the Benny Hill gang in the office?

[sydney s/h]

So Lower,

without giving exact details of your years of service, roughly how many did you chalk up?
15, 20, 25 etc.....

[lowerlobe]

ahh This sounds like Deal or No Deal.....

I'll take case number 25...hang on no...case number 30..or wait....maybe case number 32...

[Shlonghaul]

lowerlobe........take the case with the two hundred thousand in it!! Ohh wait maybe Darth has already given that to you this week??!! ;) :ok:

Good luck for the future to all those lucky enough to be in a position to take VR. :D Those of us left behind will keep defending the fort......Battle Stations!!.....must go now as the Geoffstar approaches...... :E :E

[qfcabin]

Lowerlobe..nothing as ex as an ex cop or an ex steward..time to hang up the keyboard, cos u become instantly out of touch and irrelevant ..don't hang round, cos u will sound very quickly to be an 'good old days' crew member.......some nice work over the last year or so.. thx but time to hang it up.

[lowerlobe]

qfcabin....Thanks for the advice buddy

Are you currently employed as crew?

There are a number of people who post on pprune that are no longer crew.......nothing irrelevant at all.........maybe irreverent at times though....

[capt.cynical]

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
We may be retired,but we have probably forgotten more than the Gen. Xer's will ever know or learn.;):ok::p

[gigs]

good luck n best wishes lowerlobe.......lov your posts and hope to read many more....cheers gigs

[speedbirdhouse]

Good luck and all the best to you Lowerlobe and all the others who took the package.

I've no problems with "has beens" hanging around :ok::ok::ok:

[mrpaxing]

no problem with ex crew"hanging five". enjoy a cold one or two whilst we still "fight it out" in the aluminium can.:{

[qcc2]

July 2002 332 CSM's - all bases
July 2007 240 Csm's - all bases
a 50% decline in positions

what the............:{

[packrat]

MY friend,not only have numbers declined due to a shrinking network and the domestics taking more work,but the quality of CSMs has also declined

[sydney s/h]

by "domestics" i presume your refering to shorthaul.

Use the correct terms please. After all, we do fly to more international locations than yourselves. :p

[cartexchange]

call yourselves whatever you want!
you will be always be knows as "domestics" both in attitude and location!:ugh:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Out of idle curiousity, what is the difference between short and long haul, in terms of attitude?

This should be good...

[radiation junkie]

Yes, it's all good.
Interestingly I was called out on a 767 AKL return this week. Wonder what happened to the Domestic Crew that was supposed to operate these flights?
Being LH Bfirst Crew, it was quite a novelty and brought back memories of all the 747 AKL day trips we did !
The frequent AKL-SYD & return pax did notice we were not the regular "crowd" on board.
Friendly, relaxed, less rushed, more gracious and attentive service were some of the comments.

Vive La Difference !

[call button]

Radiation junkie, the reason you got called out on the AKL return is because short haul have an excess of flying in open time this bid period. By agreement with the union, some of our flying is being transferred to long haul.

I agree, regular travelers can often tell the difference between long haul and short haul crews. The distinguishing feature being the age of the flight attendants!! :eek:

[sydney s/h]

Lets see, maybe i'm wrong with the amount of overseas ports we fly to compared to LH (going off current bid period)
1. Auckland
2. Christchurch
3. Noumea
4. Jakarta
5. Singapore
6. Hong Kong
7. Shanghai
8. Beijing
9. Mumbai
10. Japan
11. Denpassar

and of course approx 15 Australian locations.

[sydney s/h]

Well there you go.... You beat us by 2 places (nice jump from number 10 to 12) - but remember, we are "domestics".
But then again, you barely get to LHR because you have a base up there, Jetstar are taking just about all your HNL's, we do nearly all the NRT's, you do a shuttle to JFK and Vancouver, and you have a nice slip in Joberg - which i understand crew hate going to and constantly go sick on.
Goodluck getting to SFO unless you have been flying for 45years and when you go to AKL it's usually just the CSM & CSS as the rest of the crew are kiwi's.
Of course, the domestic locations are places like PER where you do the return on that fantastic aircraft called the 743. Hey - isn't that "our flying". See how stupid it sounds?!

[speedbirdhouse]

Syd/shorthaul,
perhaps you would be kind enough to advise us all of the reasons WHY so much international flying has been leached to the, "domestics"...........?

[PattyStacker]

ahhhhh Unity,,,,,, Maybe if you all stopped having a bitch slapping contest to see who has the bigger list of international destinations, you might find that if you actually support each, you might all be happier people and maybe be able to fight against the management that demean you all. Be thankful you have a job. It could all be gone tommorrow then you will be all alone:{

Some people fight for years to get positions with Qantas but to no avail. You have a great job, great benefits, but you want more, more, more , more more.

Don't let the role you perform define you as an individual.

Look at BA at Gatwick... They were all Euro Gatwick/ LGW Worldwide separation fighting and carry on, but now they are all one fleet...

Could happen to QF SH/LH already happened to AO.

Start supporting each other. You are all you have to rely on in this day and age of flying

[sydney s/h]

Well Speedbird i certainly didnt vote for the last EBA to do all the regional flying and personally i dont do it.

The reason is that shorthaul is cheaper. End of story. And you know this is the reason why. Are you happy to have it typed up the screen? Make you feel better?

Oh, and also, it appears the the LH FAAA is hopeless at getting and keeping your traditional flying.

The LH FAAA has watched bases being built around the world - NZ, LHR, BKK...its watched no promotion for years (until just recently), its let the JFK slips disappear and now you guys do a duty that the yanks dont even do, you have moved into crap accomm in LA (or atleast thats what you guys bitch about), they have let Jetstar run all over you, they have let QF SH take loads of work off you, LH'ers have been forced to use up all their leave... SO... what does your union do for you?? Zip. And your about to shafted again at christmas when the EBA comes up.

Getting back to your original question... yes, the reason is that we are cheaper to operate on these international routes. Now, the way i see it you have 2 options.
1. Sit back and complain about losing more routes
2. Realise the good old days are over and accept that you may have to change to retain and possibly win back any of the flying you have lost. If that means working more hours/bid period - so be it. Accepting DTA at the SH rates? Maybe. You still get paid a handsome rate of pay.

SH is a growing division, LH is shrinking. Thats the facts.

[speedbirdhouse]

Whilst not disagreeing in anyway with the "thrust" of your post can you please explain what you mean by, "but you want more, more, more , more more"

[gigs]

why cant s/haul join the faaa l/haul?????????????????????????????????? cheers gigs

[sydney s/h]

I am personally happy for QF LH to take all the international stuff back. As i said, im not interested in it.

Leave us to do the 9am-5pm rock returns and you can do the all nighters from SIN.

[radiation junkie]

Yep, you have hit the nail on the head, Domestic's don't want to do LH trips. It's not about who wants to do what. While I don't defend the LH FAAA, it is not LH that let this happen, it is whoever sold out to our "bonus driven" management, and that was SH FAAA !! ? If Domestic crew were consulted by their union and had any say in the deal, I am sure they would not have let this happen. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[regionalguy]

Isn't voting on the EBA having a say ?

[sydney s/h]

Hang on a sec Radiation junkie... there are a whole bunch of crew who actually do want the regional flying.

There are two main groups. The VERY senior old TAA girls who are about to take the package (number 3 from MEL is in SYD at the moment to do some international flights) and believe it or not the ex LH'ers do them all the time.

They all complain about how they miss getting their little envelopes when they turn up to the hotel. Go figure.

There has been several opportunites to go LH for all crew. If they want to do the flying then head on over.