View Full Version : Messerschmitt Me-262 flight

7th May 2007, 01:44

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b7_1176294962 video

7th May 2007, 06:24
Thanks for that link. I am amazed that anyone has got a 262 airworthy, mainly because of the reported short life and low reliability of the original engines. I wonder if more reliable ones have been retro-fitted?

7th May 2007, 06:55
See http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html

A series of 5 precision replica Me262 aircraft is planned; 2 are already flying and the aircraft made its international debut at ILA, Berlin, in 2006.

All will be powered by the Williams J85 - the original Jumo 004s only had a life of around 12 hours in wartime service. However, the original nacelle contours are retianed.

Pontius Navigator
7th May 2007, 07:16
Is that some sort of wartime titanium alloy or a new invention?
retianed :)

PS, met someone who had been transfered to submarines at the end of the war. His job was to ferry the Russian quota of U-boats to Russia. For some odd reason the German Navy crews flatly refused. The German boats used mild steel for various valves etc as the was a comlete shortage of brass. The RN boats used brass for all the valves etc. The German valves and hand wheels had to be exercised daily to stop them seizing up.

Coiple of years ago we salvaged a sea mine, its brass work was corrosion free and could be turned by hand. Last week we got a 25lb shell and fuse. Its brass VT fuse was also corrosion free.

7th May 2007, 07:26
Since the Kroll process for producing titanium in commercial quantity wasn't invented until 1946, I think you can safely assume that it was a speling miksate.......

Pontius Navigator
7th May 2007, 07:43
yeah butt, no butt it coul da bean a knew alloy for the original profile. LOL

Flame Out
7th May 2007, 09:55
Without meaning to be nerdie, the FW 190 is also back in limited production.



8th May 2007, 09:05
I did read somewhere that the original 262 was a taildragger, and that Galland was alarmed that the take off tecnique was to hurtle down the runway, then to apply the brakes to get the tail up, then continue, :}

8th May 2007, 12:43
I must have one!!!!

9th May 2007, 08:20
Good article here: http://www.vectorsite.net/avme262.html

10th May 2007, 04:54
"Williams J85"

Isnt the J85 a GE engine? As found in the G91Y, A-37, T-2, T-38 and F-5?


Brian Abraham
10th May 2007, 10:06

12th May 2007, 04:14
Prettier than a Meatbox.....

13th May 2007, 20:50
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have heard the engines are CJ610's ex-LearJet or early Jet Commander. Essential same as the military J85, sans reheat, but with probably better documentation re parts life etc. :8

Flying Lawyer
13th May 2007, 23:20
This year's Guild of Air Pilots Cobham Lecture was given by Eric 'Winkle' Brown who, as CO of the Enemy Aircraft Flight at Farnborough at the end of WWII, was heavily involved in flight testing and assessment of German, Italian and Japanese aircraft - 55 different types, including the Me 262.

In his view, if the Me 262 had become fully operational, the outcome of the war in the air would have been very different. It had almost 100 kt advantage over the Mark XIV Spitfire - which he regards as the finest fighter of WWII.

Insufficient production capacity, fuel shortages, a lack of trained pilots and suitable airfields meant relatively few went into combat.


BTW, if you get the opportunity to hear Captain Brown give a lecture, don't miss it. He kept the capacity audience of about 240 enthralled for what turned out to be 1 hours - but I doubt if anyone noticed time passing.
Fluent in German, he was involved in the interrogation of people such as Willy Messerschmitt, Kurt Tank, Ernst Heinkel, Hermann Goering and Hanna Reitsch. He asked Goering about the Battle of Britain. Goering considered it was a draw - the Luftwaffe weren't beaten; they were withdrawn by Hitler because they were needed elsewhere.
As one of a small advance party led by Brigadier Glyn-Hughes, Captain Brown was one of the first British servicemen to enter the Nazi death camps. The horror of what he saw that day has remained with him, and will forever.

One of the most interesting lectures I've ever heard. Only later did it sink in that the elderly gentleman describing events was relating things he'd seen and done by the age of 26!


14th May 2007, 04:14
Wonder if the new FW will suffer the same aileron reversal at high speed as the original "butcher bird"? For the new owners' sake I hope not.

22nd May 2007, 09:04

26th May 2007, 22:24
FL, just saw him on the tele over here and he said after hostilities had ceased he tested an Arado (?) and that before he took off, on of the engines exploded and took the wing off :eek:

27th May 2007, 08:42
The Arado 234 was a twin engined jet bomber and a squadron was based at Achmer, Germany in 1945.


When I was stationed at Osnabruck (lovingly known as Osnatraz!) in the 80's we used Achmer Training Area for exercises and one day whilst rummaging through the mud (as you do!) I found a rusty German military belt buckle, not in the greatest of conditions but you could clearly make out the eagle, swastika and Gott Mit Uns. It's still in the house somewhere.

sunday driver
30th May 2007, 15:40
According to his autobiography, Eric Brown (along with a Luftwaffe PoW pilot) flew 9 Arado 234Bs back to the UK.
Where are they all now, I wonder?


John Farley
30th May 2007, 19:09
Yes the protype Me262 (designated V1) did have a tailwheel. Indeed it also had a 730HP Jumo 210G piston engine in the nose. Which saved it one day when the two jets quit. Later it looked like pic 2 and 3. I talked to Galland about it circa 1972 but he did not mention stamping on the brakes to get the tail up - but then he may not have thought it worth mentioning. He did say that if they had enough of them earlier on it might have allowed them to win in the air - but Hitler was hell bent on bombers not fighters.

Dr Jekyll
31st May 2007, 08:28
I recall reading somewhere that with a tailwheel undercarriage the wings tended to block the airflow to the elevators during the takeoff roll. Which would correspond with the story about using the brakes to lift the tail.

31st May 2007, 12:57
I supposed that's a possibility - but I can think of other low-wing taildraggers with a high-set stab, and don't know of them having a similar problem. :ooh:

henry crun
31st May 2007, 22:04
barit1: I think the suggestion is that a taildragging jet aircraft does not have a prop slipstream to act on the tail surfaces.

The Supermarine Attacker is the only other jet taildragger that comes to mind, but I do not recall any stories about it having problems on takeoff.

31st May 2007, 23:07
The Supermarine Attacker is the only other jet taildragger that comes to mind, but I do not recall any stories about it having problems on takeoff.

There were a couple of others. The initial production YAK 15 was a taildragger as was the Ambrosini Sagittario.

31st May 2007, 23:24
G'day Chaps

Other tail dragging fire breathers include:

Heinke HE 178

Caproni-Campini N.I

D.A.P. (A93) Pika

Handley Page H.P.88

Miles Sparrowjet

Leduc 021


1st Jun 2007, 00:04
And an early design for an airliner with 4 Nene engines in pairs- I give you the Avro Tudor 8:


1st Jun 2007, 00:28
Galland made reference to stamping on the brakes to lift the tail when writing about his first flight in the Me 262 in "The First and the Last".

Cajus Bekker (probably taking it from Galland's book) also refers to the practice in "The Luftwaffe War Diaries".