SAS

[Flip Flop Flyer]

from politiken.dk (sorry, only in danish)

Following 2 recent, and illegal, strikes by SAS Denmark cabin crew, the CEO has announced the company will address these issues in an upcoming strategic review, due in June.

One possible outcome will be to transfer the highly lucrative shuttles between CPH and OSL, ARN to either SAS Sweden or SAS Norway. This will result in substantial reductions in the number of cabin and cockpit crews for SAS Denmark.

The latest 2-day strike resulted ın upwards of 700 cancelled flights, disruption of around 50000 customers and a loss of around DKK 100M (roughly EUR 13.5M). The CEO made comments to the effect of 'SAS is here to serve our customers, not the other way around' - a fact seemingly lost by a number of SAS DK cabin crew.

For your informatıion, a 3-year agreement between SAS DK and ıt's Danish cabin crew was signed earlier this year. The compromise agreements (and are not all agreements compromises?) was apparently not good enough for some SAS DK cabin crew.

[Ancient Mariner]

From a long time SAS frequent flier, and at the risk of being scalded by SAS' Danish cabin crew.:ouch:
I wish.
Per

[pee]

Amazingly, this thread has been idle since 2007.

Two reasons to revive it.

First issue: IntegrationStarting 1 November, 2012, the commercial responsibility of SAS Group in Finland will move from Blue1 to SAS. In practice, this means that Blue1 will become a production company whose main role will be to produce operational flight services to SAS's route network. In this new role as a production company Blue1 will continue to operate current routes on behalf of SAS.

As part of the commercial integration process, Blue1 flight numbers will change into SAS flight numbers. As an example, flight “KF 123” will become “SK 456”. The change does not require any action by customers. Corporate deals will not be affected. Passengers will be able to check in normally with the original booking reference and the new SK flight number will be printed on the boarding card.

As from November, the marketing and sales of flights will also be transferred to the SAS brand, hereby further strengthening the Finnish market within SAS Group's total route network. Source: blue1.com (http://www.blue1.com/en/fi/About-us/News/SAS-strengthens-its-position-on-the-Finnish-market/)

Second issue: SAS need cash again!
Scandinavian airline SAS has moved to quash rumours that it is facing bankruptcy and that banks are considering not extending loans to the troubled carrier.

"There has been speculation all autumn, there are new things almost everyday, but nothing is decided," said SAS communications head Knut Morten Johansen to the Norwegian website E24.no.

The media has been awash with reports that SAS is facing insolvency, that its banks were losing patience and that the company is set to be sold.

Johansen rejected the sale rumours, explaining that the speculation was "frustrating".

According to a report in the Dagens Industri business daily this week, the airline and its three major shareholders - the Swedish, Norwegian and Danish states - held meetings with its creditors to discuss the airline's future.

The Swedish state has invested some 2.4 billion kronor ($360 million) in the loss-making airline in the past three years, money which has long since been exhausted.

The airline posted losses of 1.69 billion kronor in 2011 and CEO Rickard Gustafsson pledged to accelerate the firm's cost-cutting programme, seeking five billion kronor in savings and new revenue in 2012.

According to the Dagens Industri report, the company's loan facilities expire in March 2013 and rumours that the banks were disinclined to extend the loans have persisted.
Cited from: thelocal.se (http://www.thelocal.se/44094/20121028/)

[j636]

Shares in loss-making airline SAS halted as rumours swirl | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/10/30/uk-sas-shares-idUKBRE89T0IK20121030)

[LN-KGL]

SAS was forced today to release the Q3 results ten days earlier than planned to try to stop the speculation flood the last days. The EBT for Q3 was +568 MSEK and with that the EBT for the nine first months this year will have an EBT of -193 MSEK.
Source: http://feed.ne.cision.com/wpyfs/00/00/00/00/00/1C/14/7C/wkr0006.pdf

[pee]

This really is our "final call" if we want SAS to survive, said the airline's CEO Rickard Gustafson, announcing the job loss of 800. I know we ask a lot of our employees, but there is no other way, the Swedish government will not give more money, he said. The airline has agreed a new credit facility of around 3.5 billion Swedish crowns ($520 million).

At the end of October a new plan will be announced to boost pretax profits by around 3 billion Swedish crowns ($445 million).

[BALHR]

Could Lufthansa make another bid for SAS, or at least once it has been restructured?

[pee]

How the customers can express their lack of confidence? Well, sometimes in a very unusual way. For example... by buying even more! SAS customers are doing just that, buying. Not necessarily flight tickets, though. Last days they have stormed SAS Internet store to use up their bonus points in the event of bankruptcy. As the result, Thursday the web shop closed for several hours. According to SAS in Sweden the EuroBonus shop was down due to high load, but in fact it seems that the shop's suppliers started to demand the advance payments. Tough times ahead, apparently.

[CentreFix25]

Not looking good... (http://www.thelocal.se/44486/20121118/)

[Richard Taylor]

"Negotiations are going ****," SAS chairmain Fritz Schur told Danish radio on Sunday afternoon.

Says it all. :uhoh:

[TRY2FLY]

Well ya got to give the man credit for calling a spade a spade. He could a waffled some PR crap like most other chairmen would have done but he didn't.

[EI-BUD]

SAS - 'A Dinosaur In The Process Of Dying'? (http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1353117818.html)

When should we expect to hear what is happening at SAS, I understand meetings were happening today?

Above is a link to a story online, similar to what was reported above.

[The Flying Cokeman]

No later than midnight you will have an answer. It does not look good according to Scandinavian news this minute but time will tell. The CEO says its 50/50 :bored:

[PAXboy]

The thread running in R&N tells the story. Two points being, you can't run three hubs in regional proximity AND a wide diversity of a/c.

It is too late and, sadly they will go. If not today, Very soon. It is the way of the Western World at this time. The 'fault' is not one group, but many differnet circumstances, most of which could not have been imagined 20/30/40 years ago.

[FR-]

Not really getting any better. Who will move in and take on some of the routes?


BBC News - SAS in overnight talks with unions to avoid bankruptcy (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20389271)


fr-

[AGPwallah]

Taken from theforeigner.no:

CAU was the last of eight unions to reach agreement with SAS, fifteen hours after the deadline for agreement was breached. This brought a meeting that had lasted all night to a close.
The first of the unions to reach agreement with management was the SAS Norway Kabinforening union, which signed at 1am Monday. The second Norwegian union, Norsk Kabinforening, reached agreement at 8am Monday.
Whilst some of the unions want to ask their members’ approval for the agreement, this is viewed as a technicality by union leaders.
The agreement means that SAS staff will work longer hours, with the working week extended from 44 hours to 47.5, and the working day extended to up to 13 hours.
Jens Lippestad, who led negotiations for the pilots, told NTB, “Pilots will be 30 per cent cheaper, because we will be earning less and working more.” According to Lippestad, pilots are giving up the equivalent of month’s salary.
Cabin staff appear to have been spared the salary cut, but have agreed to a rise in pensionable age to 65 years, as well as changes to working hours.
The demand for cuts to salaries and pensions come from the banks that have been keeping SAS afloat in recent months. The banks have also requested that SAS dispose of assets.
The company now believes it has met the conditions laid down by the banks and by the major shareholders in the company, the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish governments, as well as the Swedish Wallenberg foundation.
This guarantees a line of credit equivalent to 3.5 billion Swedish kroner until March 2015.

[Midland 331]

>but many differnet circumstances, most of which could not have been imagined 20/30/40 years ago.

See my comments on the R and N thread. All the current challenges, principally increased competition and the need to reduce cost, was warned to the staff circa 1988. I worked for SAS.

r

[KBPsen]

What did you expect from someone who fancies himself as a business analyst but sounds more like a horoscope writer from a glossy women's magazine. Apparently there is very little one does not become an expert at by sitting 5 minutes in a cabin seat.

[BALHR]

Who will move in and take on some of the routes?

Here is how it could work:

Routes from Norway/Sweden/Denmark to Germany/Switzerland/Austria

As far I as know there is some sort of ATI between LH and SAS on those routes between Germany and Norway/Sweden/Denmark and I think the same applies to OS and LX in relation to Austria and Switzerland

So if SAS closed down, LH/OS/LX will take control of those routes

All other Mainline Routes from Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm:

I will suppose overseas airline competing on overseas routes served by SAS will increase the frequencies, anything else will have to be filled by Norwegian

What to do with the remainder of SAS:

I would guess Wideroe will be either sold off or the Government of Norway will take control of the airline and the stake in Air Greenland will be sold off to the governments of Greenland and Denmark

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone know why SAS don't equip winglets to their 737's? Even Ryanair equip them!

[rutankrd]

SAS operate a mix of 73NG models for a variety of differing tasks

The 737-600 models (No winglets) are primarily used short domestic routes and shorter international routes from Stockholm and Norway. The winglets would just add weight and operating costs to an already heavy frame.

The 737-700 model - Some have winglets and some don't.
Those that don't are normally operated from Norway (Several were early Braathens orders)
Later new deliveries do have winglets and allow them to operate some long sectors including the Canaries directly from Norway.
Two leased in second hand models don't have winglets and are operating from Stockholm (These are replacements for MD87s)

The 737-800 model - Include low density and none winglets units used from Stockholm and Oslo on international business routes such as those to Heathrow

Further models in a higher density seating arrangement and including winglets are mainly deployed on longer leisure services.

[Rivet Joint]

Thanks Rutankrd, didn't think about them having different routes and therefore the advantage of having them or not.

[LN-KGL]

There are a number of reasons for SAS 737NGs not having winglets:

1. The 737-600s are not certified with winglets.

2. SAS has only selected to install winglets on aircraft that don't need to strengthen the wing (to save expences), and that means only -700s later than L/N 1545 and -800s later than L/N 778.

3. Then there is an engine issue. SAS selected DAC (Dual Annular Combustor) versions of the CFM56 for their first batches -683, -783 and -883 (the 737-705 that came from Braathens Single Annular Combustor engines), and it happens to be only aircraft with SAC engines that are certified for winglets.

This is only some of the reasons for having and not having winglets installed at SAS. Within the 737NG fleet there are more differences, like some aircraft have Atlas galleys while other have KSSU galleys. Then there are different seating configurations within each sub series, different engine ratings and different MTOWs. Fleet commonality is unknown to SAS.

[Rivet Joint]

LN-KGL, great response. There was I thinking SAS were finally sorting out their overly complicated fleet by narrowing it down to two types!

[LN-KGL]

I was only scratching the surface Rivet Joint

[chaps2011]

It`s no suprise SAS cannot make any money with so little standardisation

Chaps

[The SSK]

How much longer will the SK594 MD81 wake me up at 11:30 every Sunday morning? A very reliable alarm clock, guaranteed to pierce the deepest sleep.

[LN-KGL]

1130 morning - I don't think so and you have slept long enough by that time.
BTW SK594 is a flight in to BRU and is usually flown with A319 or A321.
BTW2 All MD80s at SAS are now only M82 (but don't tell the SAS people responsible for their websites that), and they are now only flying out of CPH. ARN is a 737NG only base now. OSL has a mix of NG and Classic 737s. Latest info on the MD82s is that they may end their service earlier than the planned retirement at the end of 2014.

[The SSK]

I need my beauty sleep! To maintain my astonishingly good looks, vigour and intelligence, to satisfy the expectations of my legions of fans and followers (see post below)

Sat,Sun 11:25 Brussels (BRU) 12:55 Copenhagen (CPH) 3
SK 594 Non-stop McDonnell Douglas MD-81 (M81) 1:30

[Heathrow Harry]

I think that's one thing the whole forum agree on - a LOT more sleep I'd suggest............... :D:D

[davidjohnson6]

SAS to seek an AOC in Ireland and open bases in London and Spain. If you can't beat Norwegian, better join them...

[AirportPlanner1]

Why would they need an Irish AOC, couldn't they just use an existing EU one (Swedish/Danish)? And potentially what use would Irish be anyway post-Brexit for London? Or is a new AOC more about overcoming union issues?

I can't really see this working though, or see what they would bring to the table. It's a crowded market.

[pamann]

I personally think they're (SAS) entering an over saturated market here in London. That is to assume they'll be going after the Leisure traffic.

LGW would see them off with fierce competition from not just Norwegian, but EZY are massive at LGW and BA will defend their turf here also.

STN has Jet2 arriving next month with a massive fanfare, Ryanair, Easyjet and now even BA in the shape of Cityflyer all have a presence here big and small.

Only airport left is Luton, but I think over-night stands here are a problem, plus EZY would put up a decent fight. Not sure there's much fight to be had from Monarch mind?

Southend anyone?

I just can't see it lasting, it will just be another Aer Lingus IMHO.

[Logohu]

The SAS move appears awkward on so many levels - wrong business model, wrong fleet mix/configurations, wrong cost base, wrong customer base etc etc

I think DJ6 hit the nail on the head - it's a protective move by SAS to try and undermine the progress and revenues of Norwegian, regardless of the cost. Ask yourself would SAS be doing this if Norwegian didn't exist ? Somehow I doubt it....

[Flightrider]

As posted on the LGW thread just now, why is everyone assuming that this will be extra SAS flying in LON? Their plan is to take the existing LHR nightstops from CPH, ARN and OSL and crew them from a London base, together with other services through the day. The LON crew will be on a lower costbase than their Scandinavian crew on legacy contracts - particularly given the exchange rates where they are - and they'll cut out nightstop costs in LHR for six crews a night. Quite a sensible move.

[Crazy Voyager]

What Flightrider says is my interpertation as well.

I've not seen any intention from SAS to open new routes or markets, the London base will fly existing routes to Scandinavia. It's just the crew and aircraft will be based at Heathrow and therefore no need for night-stops and expenses for crews. Combine this with lower employment costs in "Ireland" compared to Scandianvia and that is another cost saving.

I don't think SAS has any intention of trying to make money out of leisure routes from the UK, at least not at the moment.

[jensdad]

Not particular to this thread, but it's amazing how many people on here in 2012 were certain they were going under.

[Buster the Bear]

SAS to secure Irish AOC for new operational bases in London and Spain. :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/271213/sas-to-secure-irish-aoc-for-new-operational-bases-in-london-and-spain/)