Qatar's package and Working conditions

[wee one]

Can anyone give me an objective opionion on the cost of housing in Doha and the realities of life on the 330 fleet.
Cheers

[loc22550]

right on the most sensitive point here in doha:the accomodation problem!
Today if you join Q.A. and if you need a decent villa for your family, you will have to spend a MINIMUM of 3000euros or 4000 U$ almost Half of F/O 330 salary!With a captain salary it will be slightly less painfull: this is NOT an objective opinion, this is the reality!
During the interview you may be promised to receive an company accomodation but until you see it and get it don`t thrust it!Again this is not an objective opinion, that´s the reality.

Life on a 330 fleet(probably the worst): Roster will spoil your private life, a lot of change, no fix roster, you may be roster for two long haul night flight separated by minimum rest!!Roster Mafia doesn´t have any clue of safety, But of course don´t be afraid to refuse any last minute change if you think it´s not safe.Your days off may be cancelled if you are lucky they will be posponed.
Again and without being negative, i think in my humble opinion i´m relatively close to the reality.
But wait and see, maybe some of my collegues will come with different point of view...:hmm:
Cheers.

[Ray Darr]

Not that it would amount to anything, but wouldn't AFAP / BALPA / ALPA / ALPO :p / jump at a cause such as this, even if it isn't in their jurisdiction?

It's PATHETIC how human factors are forgotten once you are behind The Wall of Sand...

[wee one]

Thanks for the replys guys. Keep em coming. I'm just not sure if the shiney new jet is worth the hassle.
cheers.

[PIPE RIDER]

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS TRUE, DON'T FALL FOR PROMISES. MANY PILOTS HAVE GONE TO DIFFERENT MANAGERS,CHIEF PILOTS, GMFO TO SEEK FOR HELP, AND NO HELP OR ANSWER HAS BEEN RECEIVED.
NOWADAYS THE LANDLORDS WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO
RENEW YOUR CONTRACT, THEY JUST KICK YOU OUT, ASSUMIG "LEGAL" REASONS, AND AS THEY TOLD ONE CAPTAIN..."NO QR PILOT CAN AFFORD MY VILLAS", BY THE WAY IS TRUE........:confused: , AND LAW FOR EX PATS IN QATAR IS A ONE WAY ROAD PACKED BY MANY LAND CRUISERS

[qatarpilot123]

Here is a link to the classifieds for housing in Doha (http://www.gulf-times.com/mritems/streams/2006/12/27/2_124759_1_255.pdf ). Please be aware that many landlords are now asking for up to 12 months rent paid in advanced in cash. If you only want to pay 6 months in advance they will add up to 1000QR/month to the rent or for 3 months up to 2000QR/month.
For info total pay (Captain) for an 80 hour month is about 42,000QR plus overnight allowance (this includes housing allowance).
Current company provided accommodation is less than desirable, has caused many marital problems and is turning into a ghetto like living situation (Large families of up to six living in small 2 and 3 bedroom apartments because they are unable to find suitable affordable accommodation).
There are many positives and negatives to living and working here in Qatar. Here is a link to a post I made almost 3 years ago- many things remain unchanged since then (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117205 ).
Good luck and remember it is what you make it here in Doha. Make an informed decision and live with it. Please don’t think it is something that it is not then spend 10 hours in a cockpit complaining to me how bad the company treats you- it will fall on deaf ears…it is your choice, choose wisely and live with your decisions like a man.

Remember ask the hard questions and ask for proof (contract in writing) of any promises made at your interview.

[loc22550]

let's be realistic....there is a lot of negatives points and a few positives points!
Optimistic people would say: "it could be worse....."

[popay]

wee one, hi there.
Housing is THE issue here. As a new joiner you certainly wont have the overview about what's going on and where to look and to ask. I know people they made good deals and I know they made bad once. A lot depends on your ability and patience. One thing is for sure, the quality of the properties goes down if you wanna pay only the housing allowances. Most probably you will have to rent a flat up to 8000 QAR ( could be fully furnished if you pulled the lucky number slevin;) ) If you're single you can share accommodation and save some backs. If you decide to come, try t avoid agencies (though it's hard to do) they the once driving the prices up. Talk to the land lord straight even if with hands, still works. As far as complaining concerns all depends on your position. If, F/o, just play the game of the old man and forget everything after good morning after check out. Capt, no worries I'll be all ears for 50 QAR/hour.;) Just kidding.
Cheers.

[NoJoke]

Wee one, dee nah do it son. The life on the 320 is 50 hrs block, 130 hrs duty - you only get paid for rostered block ie exceed the rostered, you don't get paid the extra, rarely go under block. Rostering, as you will have read in other posts, is nojoke. Step out of line and wham they got ya. Generally, means you are away from the house (although back most nights) for a long time but get paid 10,000 QAR a month less than the 330 guys (they deserve every cent they get, as do we) The initial outlay to get set up can be 60,000+ QAR (not including extra for house rental). A car may cost you 2,500 a month for five years depending on the make. Other airlines in the area are getting payrises and we get rumours. Inflation here for 2005 was around 13% and this year 9% mainly driven by housing prices, but of course that will drop now after the games.......

[wee one]

Thanks for the replies guys.. Ive decided not to accept the contract.
Too many bridges to burn for too many variables. Maybe in the future Inshallah.
Shukuran:ok:

[loc22550]

Wise decision not to come to Q.A. :ok:
:D
Try Emirates or Etihad, maybe they are not "5 stars airline":ugh: but definitely a better place to work!!
I´m gone finalised my CV For one of them tomorrow..

[Dune Driver]

Loc22550 and Mountain. You have hit the nail on the head. When I left I was promised an increase in housing with in 2 months, it was all lies! Forget Qatar Airways and stick to one of the 4 airlines in the Emirates. Even start up RAK Airways offers a much better deal than QR, and whats more the housing is on a 5 star beach resort and is included in the contract. Most (but not all) of the Emirates villas are great too and Etihad is getting better now with the new CEO sorting out some corruption in section that alocated the housing.

[Dune Driver]

By the way Qatar might be 5 star from the pax point of view but it gets a minus factor from the employees point of view. Etihad, Emirates and RAK are at least 4 star from the Employee point of view when you compare the rest. Yet to find the perfect company.

[quidditch ace]

My two buddies who are still in Qatar back up fully what has been said here. Main problems in Qatar are the constant rising of the rent, constant lies from managment and the lack of Expat managment, they are both going to leave! In fact most Managment positions have been filled with Indians if there was not a local for the job. Take the A330 fleet boss as an example. If you are rated on the Bus or 777 try Etihad and if rated on the 737 or 757 / 767 try RAK Airways. Forget Qatar it will only get worse.

[loc22550]

Yes...thinks will only get worse here..i´m afraid..Have been here for long time, long enough to notice that thinks NEVER improved here, but getting worse and worse..and i don´t see why suddenly think would improve in Q.A...
Was probably a little bit naive to still have some hopes here!

[dicksynormous]

No Rooster? Did someone kill the chicken?:eek: I hope it was halal.
eid mubarak

[Qatardream]

Does any body know any thing about Fujairah aviation academy as i will start for CPL soon and my age is 28 is it ok for me to start in that age or i am too old for it.
also I would like to know if i finish it there I will get the chance to work in etihad or emirates as ab intiou pilot.

thanks
qatar dream

[salamalikum2]

Another idiotic housing policy in Q.A. is that if you are new joiner today and if you are lucky you may receive an accomodation from the company....while people who have been here for long time have to struggle with their skinny house allowance and pay from their pocket in order to find a decent accomodation,... this allowance should have been doubled long time ago!!!!:ugh:
No wonder why people are leaving,.. just another evidence of the total incapacity of dealing with human in this company.

[foxtrot]

Hi Q Ace,
The housing problem is unnderstood but what does the A330 fleet boss have to do with rising rents. Was under the impression he did a good job on the A320 and was making changes on the A330 for the better.:D :confused:

[loc22550]

Indeed S.S. as a vey competent pilot did a good job and i think still doing it...Really he deserve to be where he is today...:ok:

[foxtrot]

Hello Ace,
Did a check on the post you mentioned. But you left out the part where Mango talks about the present A330 CP. Lets not be selective on what we tend to read.
Cheers Ace.:confused:

[foxtrot]

Sorry Ace meant Tango.:)

[Cpt. off the hook]

UPDATE on rent prices
rent prices aren't even close to start dropping. The local newspapers claim the main problem to be the wish of the landlord to rent the property at once to one company. Meaning NO individual contracts but one tenant preferably a company. QR wake up and either provide a decent accommodation or rise the housing. Any rumors on a new package?

[Spirit1]

Rumors, rumors, rumors.....:ugh:
One thing is sure. Min. rent for a desent villa in compound: 16.000qr!!!
Not even close to what they mentioned at the interview. Hope thinks will improve. Otherwise ................. I did a very very bad move:ouch:

Any one know where I can get a cheap 4wd? and I mean Cheap Cheap.

[Qatari515]

Yeah...you can have mine...

Send me a PM....

[loc22550]

Spirit..i´m afraid (but i hope i´m wrong), that you were lured during the Q.A. interview (as a lot of us).....
As you have already probably noticed now, management here is full of lies and liars!
Cheers.

[salamalikum2]

Moving to Qatar airways today is for sure not a good move.....:bored:

[nubenegra]

hi, everybody:

I'm looking for information about qatar airways interview, salary, living in Doha,housing price and any other information. I am a 310/300-600 f/o and would like to know anything about living there.

[loc22550]

Go to the thread "QR JOB OFFER" 3rd page, there is a reference to a newspaper article regarding the cost of live in doha today..
The figure mentioned (29000 QR) is more or less equal to a F/O salary in Q.A. today on A300 or A320....:{
Cheers.

[loc22550]

And i forgot, when you see ths cost of live here you may think you are here in a place like "côte D'Azur..." or in switzerland....but you are "just" in Doha, a city in the middle of the desert, with nothing except hotels and shopping centers...:hmm:

[jifna]

Any one have an idea about Qatar interview, I have mine on March 26th? please help:confused: :sad: :(

[fly123456]

quite easy, don't sweat it

you arrive one day before the interview

around 8AM you get a briefing about QR and Doha

Followed by a technical quizz (around 10 questions multiple choice [general: performance, aerodyn, airlaw - or type specific if type-rated] , 2 essays [what makes a good pilot, describe procedure in case of GPWS, aborted T/O, etc...)

You're then called for an interview appointment. (3 or 4 tech questions, really short (again basic perfo - like climb gradients, ASDA, TODA, etc...) 1 or 2 personal questions - why QR, etc...) (around 15 minutes)


If succesful, you get an appointment for the sim (A300 or A330 depending of where you do the interview)

Sim: Visual circuit in Doha full stop
T/O again with Engine failure after V1
Single Engine ILS

That's it :)

[jifna]

Thanks a million for the info.
:)
jifna

[fly123456]

forgot about the psychological test...

around twenty x four propositions.

Out of each four: one is what represents you the most, one is what represents you the least.

But I guess it's not something you could prepare for...

[pilota16]

Hi All,

I had an interview with QR late January for a second officer position(cadet),still don't have any reply!!!
Would any one advise if it is normal,how long the selection process will take and if accepted how long to get in a course?
Thanks and wish everyone the best!

[Mach_Krit]

:eek: hey pilota! second officer?! hahahahahaaaaa!! nov.2005 and never heard **** from them again. so find another job...i have and i dont regret not hearing from QR again! hahahahaa!!! :eek: :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[pilota16]

I know that it takes very long to get into a course,I have some collegues from Sep05!!!!!!but they had an answer results only few weeks after the interview....for this reason,I just want to know if it takes long to get an answer!!!
Thanks.

[Mach_Krit]

pilota16...interview nov27, results dec18..but i know others that had their interview in april05 and also got their result in dec. but whats the use if you dont get called in for the course?

[pilota16]

So you had a positive reply and they didn't call you back to start a course???

[Mach_Krit]

hi pilota...thats exactly what I mean! :-) got a positiv reply and never heard from them again. no answers to emails, no answers by phone (i you did get someone on the phone you were treated like a nuisance)...they seem to forget that people travelled quite far and spent lots of money to come to their interview...so you can understand that qr isnt really a company that i think very well of :-)

[eaglejet]

Hey folks,

How's the QR interview like? I would appreciate any info from peeps who interviewed recently. Is there any technical interview, sim ride? What's the best way to prepare for it, any books to read?

Thanks a lot

[Amin]

hello eagle jet!

Hope this helps http://www.qatarinterview.com/

Amin :ok:

[Ausbus]

I am preparing for an interview as a direct-entry captain with Qatar. Can anyone tell me what questions they are currently asking in their interviews? Also would appreciate any info on the questions asked on the A310.

[SubsonicMortal]

Can anyone having flown for Qatar for more than 2 years tell about the working conditions there? Have heard a lot of conflicting stories from various people.

The new package sure looks attractive... Is the stated package before or after the rumoured 30% hike in salaries?

[popay]

SubsonicMortal, hi there. My friend you will ongoing hear all kind of stories.
Good once as well as bad once. All very much a personal choice and preferences. If you need someone whispering in your ear "GO" than ask someone of your buddies you know is gonna say it. It's also very personal choice when it comes to money. Euro people (captains) will probably reconsider their positions as soon as Euro/US$ hits 1.5. F/Os will stick it out waiting for their command. That's just an example. The list is endless.
Sorry cant help you.
Cheers.

[Deutscher]

Most of the increase went into the housing. Housing is very expensive in Doha. The allowance for housing is now Qr12000 and even with that amount you cannot a decent place.

[Flyjets]

So how can you manage it , to find a decend accomodation for a family ?

[Cliqclack]

Well when you come back from the moon and research QTR you will know the answer. You are welcome here.

[Black Stain]

When comparing with other airlines, do not make the mistake of considering the 12000Qr p/m Housing Allowance as an attractive part of your salary.

A civilized compound villa will cost you 15000 average, the alternative company offered accomodation for Captains is acceptable but nothing fancy. Family or not, company FO accomodation is :mad: .

The sandy footprints of those before you really are the best guide. Bean counting is now complete, New Package Euphoria is now over, and pilots still resigning or jumping ship....

Shape of the dunes may change from year to year, but the sand under your feet is still just broken glass....

[Cliqclack]

But Dear stain, The allowance is great. Especially if when shared. Live wid yo bro (and 40 others) and life is fine. 12,000 - OK :}

[Black Stain]

"Cliq.. Clack.... clickedy clack" What is that?

The sound of hoof on ceramic floor as fresh young goat explores the concrete wonder of his new quarters at the Jeddah Flyover Slum.

Where I come from the only mammals to live in single roof communes are Stick Nest Rats and drug buggered hippies.

[Cliqclack]

No BS, BS. Not young anymore. Cliqclack is a couch (without potato!) :ok:

[4HolerPoler]

Get this thread back on track (and stop the current drivel) or it's going in the bin. 4HP

[Tachi]

Thank you Mr moderator.I was beginning to think maybe I did not understand the original thread posted :confused: . However, apart from gathering that housing is 1200QR. I would like to know the Capts salary and F/o's salary if possible .Thank you guys.

[Qatari515]

Search is a really nice function on this forum....


Capt:

Basic 26500
Housing 12000 or company house
Transport 1500
Utilities 700
Flight pay 120 qr/hour

furniture: 50000qr once or company furniture in company house
Shooling: max 50000qr per year ( up to 3 children untill 21 years old)

FO

Basic 18000
Housing 10000
Hourly: 90Qr/hour

rest: same


This is paysheme if you join today....


Good but not good enough......Next door neighbours still beat us by FAR!

[NoJoke]

Has anybody seen a pay slip for this month. I seemed to have got a good lump of dosh this month. A neighbour said the pay had been back dated. Any ideas?

[Black Stain]

Thankyou Mr Moderator for correcting my recalcitrant tongue.

[etops777]

They are now advertising for B777 drivers

[loc22550]

Don´t get lure by the new package Subsonic...think as well about live condition here in Doha.....
Here we are still at the slavery age...
Cheers.

[Plutos]

Does anybody know if it is possible to switch the housing allowance to a housing loan if u want to buy a property in Doha?
I mean if u buy a house do you lose the company allowences (housing/furniture/utility).
tks

[popay]

Plutos, hi there.
Not exactly that but you can go for a normal mortgage with a bank. You'll have to bring up 25% of the capital yourself the rest will be financed through the bank. However the interest rate is very high 8,5% as well as the prices. The issue requires a very careful study. Lots of legal aspects such as retail right, ownership and finally the your legal situation in Qatar in case you lose the job?
Geoglobal situation must be taken into account as well, like Iran.
It's certainly worth thinking about it and it's a buy if you have necessary cash cause in this case it's a matter of an investment.
Cheers.

[Plutos]

Hi popay,
so if u rise a mortgage with a bank, then you lose all the company allowances ? and furniture allowance ?
In this case QR package become less attractive, no company house neither housing allowances.
Has any Qatar pilots bought a house in Doha as far as you know ?

Maybe as an investment you may buy and rent it and take the company house.
All the other legal aspects you pointed out are very important indeed but they are the same if you are buying in Europe.
In case you lose your job and dont pay the loan, they will sell your house... I belive.

[popay]

Plutos, to answer your questions:
1. You don't lose any allowances neither in case of a mortgage nor in case of rent. NONE OF THEM.
2. Legal aspects: you have to understand that foundation of your possible residence in Qatar is based upon the employment in QR. QR bears responsibility legally and financially for you for the duration of the employment. Once the employment is seized you're on your own. In order to leave Qatar in good terms you will have to be cleared by the company as well as any creditors. Obviously having unpaid debts with local bank (the mortgage) the chances to be released do narrow unless the property will be sold for a price covering the bank's expenses. Once clear it will be advertised in local newspapers MR. X is leaving the country at such and such anybody having any kind of legal claims do report to.... blah blah blah. Once that is done you can go.
Reality is that people do take loans and just jump ship...
Just to give you an idea about how it looks. Good luck.

[Hajj Man]

You buy a house, Get a loan for 25 years, you stay with Qatar and the rules don't change, you will get QR12,000 as a captain and QR10,000 as a First officer.

Lets just say QR12,000 so as not to think you will be a first officer for 25 years. You will get the QR12,000 a month until the rules change and Qatar Airways builds a huge "Saudi City" type complex and says "All expats here is your house, take it or leave it." "there will be no more housing allowance, Vehicle allowance and electricity allowance." You are now on your own to enjoy your 2 million U.S Dollar apartment on the Pearl or sell it and move to the company housing.

It will change here and you really have to kind of look at every avenue and see what is good for you. Some have bought apartments, some are living in company apartments and villas, and then some are sharing a villa. I think you will only find a few who live in a villa alone paying for it out of their pocket. That number is getting smaller every year with increase of rental prices and having to bear the maintenance cost yourself.

It is still a good place to come and work if you are open minded and like a nice simple life. Very easy to come here and relax but it is also easy to come here and complain about every road problem and cost of a shwarma.

Your choice.

HM:ok:

[Plutos]

Hi,
You buy a house, Get a loan for 25 years, you stay with Qatar and the rules don't change, you will get QR12,000 as a captain and QR10,000 as a First officer.

Sorry but I am a bit slow to understand: how can u get the house allowances if you dont prove you rented a house .
I imagine the company want to see your contract with the landlord before to give you the allowances.And maybe the company will give you just what you need for your rental (maybe less then 12.000 qr if the rent is lower?)
What I imagine it would be the best is (tell me if wrong): Sell your house in your country,buy a house in Doh,get the allowances,maybe ad a little for the mortgage and live there.
Once the company stops the allowances ("Saudi City"), then maybe you can rent your house and get the company house for some years.
Is this open minded ? :rolleyes:

[a330flyer]

Hi Plutos
The housing allowance is a fixed amount per month. Full stop! The only time you need to submit a copy of your rental agreement is when you move out of your company accomodation (you'll get some weeks of company accomodation upon arrival) and want to start getting your allowance.

Your plan seems open minded...but let's assume you have a legal struggle with anybody, let's say, local...you know that you're right but the legal system in the middle east doesn't really give you a chance cause you are...a foreigner.

What do you want to do with your house in that case? How do you want to sell it and get your money? Let's assume a local guy kills himself with his car and you happen to be in the car that was in his way...how can you leave the country quickly (cause otherwise you'll end up in jail...even though you're innocent...believe me/us) if you own a house there?

...hope you're a bit more closed minded now...

[popay]

Plutos, please don't make more complicated as it is. It's straight forward you get all the allowances whether you rent a place or you buy it. The only case you don't get anything is if you take company accommodation. That's it. Now the risk/reward ratio when it comes to the mortgage is entirely up to an individual only.
Again if you have the lump sum it's, in my opinion a GO. The potential risk of property devaluing in the next 10 years is relatively low unless the Yanks hit Iran, of course. I doubt it very much though. After 10 years we might see a reflection of DXB situation namely the property prices drop due to oversupply.
One more thing is to be said as well. It's not a question of price/value when you buy a property it's a question of an investment only unless you plan to retire in Qatar. Basically the same scheme like anywhere else in the world.
Make up your mind, mate.
Cheers.:ok:

[Plutos]

Tks guys, I got it ...:8

[Mike Tuck]

The package is so good I hear another 30 F/Os resigned with many going to Etihad.

[loc22550]

Well Mick Tuck...money is important But it´s not everything...
Beside the company (wich is far from being perfect:poor training,poor standard,and sometime poor atmosphere...),Doha is propbably Not the most interesting place to stay.., and this is defenitly a important factor who push people to leave as well.....
It´s an accumulation of factor...

[Hajj Man]

Where do you ladies and gentlemen get these figures from?

30 First officers resign???????????????????................ PROPAGANDA:=


HM:ok:

[Mike Tuck]

Professional Pilots RUMOUR Network :ok:

[Hajj Man]

Your right Mike Tuck,

What time frame are we talking about in which these 30 first officers have resigned? That helps if you give it a 6 month, 1 year or a 18 month time to go with it?

Do you have that number to go along with your 30? .....

Thank you

HM:ok:

[Mike Tuck]

The rumour I heard was over the last couple of months but the majority around the announcemnet of the pay 'rise'. Pays ya money, takes ya choice :hmm:

[Hajj Man]

To clarify your number of 30 F/O resignations. That number I don't think is very correct or even close.

Sorry to tell you....
.
HM:ok:

[Mike Tuck]

Chief Pilot mentioned 5 in one day a little while ago. I suppose we could say this or that all day. We will see if or when there are aircraft on the ground with no one to fly them. If it hasn't happened already. Why do you think the notice to crew came out forcing us to work on days off? Why are pilots leaving? The terms and conditions? I don't know the answer.

[loc22550]

well...Can you(and your family.. of course!) imagine to spend all your live in place like Doha...?:\
..This is probably one of the reasons why people are and will continue to leave this place...
Cheers.

[StandAlone]

And this last week the entrance of the T.Build was smelling :mad: roses of Doha!!! Why to leave such a nice place???
And I suggest for the Grumming Office to check the shoes of the Pilots...It's unacceptable, some time ago we coudn't breath without wearing the Cap and now :eek: not even the shoes...
Ops sry just checked mine... :}

[loc22550]

Better than checking i suggest the grumming office to install a shoes polish station at the technical in order for them to polish our shoes after having risked our live to cross the street.....:\ ..at least they will be usefull for something!

[StandAlone]

Don't worry Loc they will start to send us home direct from the planes...
Photo of the new service below...:E
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/1229/1d/images.world66.com/ai/rp/or/airport_mobile

[packtwoinop]

Dont you get fed up reading the same whinning rubbish that appears on these pages............or should I rephase it and ask why the whinners bother to stay in QA if all they got to say is negative points? Maybe your wifes have your passwords and there just bleeting their grieviences on here om your behalf as your on a long layover & out enjoying yourselves??? It beats back home, waking at 5am, doing 2 or 3 turnarounds and getting home late? RIGHT???? So whats the problem? You got urself a nice airconditioned office & you only got to share with other, got your own tea boy / girl & at 39,000ft theres no boss to walk in and check what your doing. One of you is probably asleep already. You dont even need to bring a packed lunch with you, Mary outside in the galley will provide, just lift your hand and push that button.......................... Oh I forgot, your only making 35,000 a month. (F/O) maybe 45,000 (Cpt). Cant afford a hala card to call home? Then theres the other 8 guys you gota share the 8 x 10 room with back in doha. The room AC not working properly and you cant gat sleep!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe whats really bothering you is you cant afford an old bicycle to get to work in time or the company transport with no AC is late and the other 50 guys sat on you smell as the water in the compound isn't working today??? Get a life!!! There are peole, good people living on the bread line who arnt complaining and all you selfish *********'s just think of is yourselves. If you dont like it get out. Any wonder theres a staff shortage when people come on here, put there fangs in and poison the company..............and this effects everyone, especially the guys that enjoy working for QA. So please, change your password, dont tell your wives and it will be a better place.

[popay]

packtwoinop, you could have written it much more easier if you wanna stop the Brazilian soap opera on pprune. Just spread the rumor that posting on the pprune will be part of the upgrade consideration and that there's a trained psychologist profiling the posters. Nice one haaa Who knows maybe there's.
Basicaly any kind of conspiracy theory will do it.
I'd be grateful to have some tissues in the tech building so I can clean my shoes.:ok:
Cheers.

[packtwoinop]

Popay, if it stops people putting the company down, I'll stand at the technical enterance myself and shine your shoes and anyone elses that requires.
Isnt it time that everyone realised what harm or good can be done over the net. I mean if people were more positive, people would join, and the more that join the easier our lives become................on the other hand when I read some guy outside QA asking about the company and 1 of our guys flushes the toilet on QA, of course that guy wont come........... but in fact our QA guy thinking hes a smart a**e just increased his work load, and yours , and mine.................. its basic mathametics!!!!!!!!!!!!
But what really gets me is these same toilet flushers are still here, I dont get it??? Either they are unemployable else where or their brain is just a mass of mush in their heads??? MUSHHEADS, i like that :D . GO HOME MUSHHEADS !!!!!!!!!!!!! :ugh:

[Mike Tuck]

What a lot of people do not realise is that many people have been lied to to get them to come here. Many of them arrive and are too busy getting accomodation, buying furniture etc to realise what the deal REALLY is until six months down the line. It is then they start to whine and those of us with a decent licence and ability, start to look around for other jobs. (Those are the guys QR NEED) What some people don't seem to understand is that it those guys that have a right to be heard, and should be heard because I suspect the mushheads will not complain because they are getting such a good deal here (In comparison to home) they will not complain, and therefore allow conditions to further deteriorate.

So carry on whinging boys until you get a new job. At least other pilots will be able to view all versions of the truth on this website.

[packtwoinop]

"to realise what the deal REALLY is until six months down the line" ..........so your saying it took you 6 months to realise you need furniture and a place to live??????? What were you expecting, AAB to ask you to move into his place, and every morning make you an omlette?? Didn't you get a contract before you joined? And if as you say you were lied to then why you didn't walk away................... SPINELESS :bored:
Stick to fishing Mike http://www.miketuckfishing.com/community.html

[Safari Goat]

Just ask all the Air Madrid pilot who join here some month ago how many flights to Madrid each of them have got as thet were promised? did you see your house allowance on last paycheck? the memo says be patient but any idea how long to be patient? we still are patient waiting on the retirement plan how many years now? how many got company villas as promised 2 years ago or more?

[packtwoinop]

Good point, QA should put on extra flights to Madrid so the homesick lads get to see their Mothers. Maybe even put a second crew on board just in case the lads operating get a little tired from the excitement of going home.........WONDERFUL IDEA. Thought abot a career in rostering?? Everyone will love you :) .
Maybe QA could approach Airbus and get the control colomn modifed to look like a set of bulls horns, just for them. "TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS"........... isnt that what thay say? Have you?
Honestly and seriously, I'm into my 4th year and content with my accomodation, salary and everything else. I'd love to be a millionare but unfortunatly HR didnt mention in my contract it would happen. If its in yours, sue em!!!!!

[StandAlone]

Well well,
Packtwoinop:{
Another dictator saying, love it or live it.
I agree there are many positive points, but there are many bad as well.
But been honest with you, some complain for one simple reason, TRYING IMPROVE things, others just leave, like many others that just resign that I know. So you are fighting the wrong guys if you want a nice airline for you try to improve things than people like me will complain less, others will stay and many will come, And one point to start...mentality..., changing the environoment will be a good start, although we are not leaving in a free country we are in a free forum, and we'll keep saying what we don't like, despaite of your opnion. And don't say we only complain here 'cause everybody knows what are the issues in the comapny, so its up to them, or up to you?
PS...the S*** hole is closed in front of the TB, thanks God!
Mean While I'm just having fun here...
And shoes tissues for everybody:}

[cavelino rampante]

According to the ppjn website a F/O with Air Madrid was earning a top salary of 3470 euro's with no perdiems, and rosters that were " Comming extremly late. No fixed days off, sometimes only 7 pr. months". And their whingeing here?!!!! :

[packtwoinop]

I agree with you, but its one thing voicing your oponion here and another putting the company down.................. Isn't the biggest problem here in QA manpower shortage in Flight Deck, Cabin Crew, Technical , Catering etc etc. But alot of the manpower shortage is from "idiots" here that delibertly put the company down, over exagerate on issues and love to stir the s***. And on the 30th of the month they same idiots are gleaming with the balance in their accounts!!!!!!! Possiblly there useless & unemployable else where and they feel it gives them a little more job security and it problaby does I guess. I cant see what kick they get stirring the S***.

[Qatari515]

Packtwoinop,


I can see where you are coming from...really I can.

However there are some things where I can not really follow you. Myself, I am relatively happy here. And I am here longer than you are!

But what I see happening with the new joiners really goes against anything ANY of us should have to go through:

1) Ask the Korean FOs what they where promised when coming here. They litterally where promised 18 months to upgrade!! Why...because they had 3 years to go in Korean Airways for upgrade....Now we all know 3 years is tha absolute min to even be considered for an upgrade but still they lied.

2) They where told they would get a VILLA! Upon arrival here...sorry...only appartments in the QR Ghetto Musheirib, no matter if they have children or not.

3) They where promised a FULL medical coverage. One FO found out the hard way that pregnancies are NOT covered in our full policy!

4) Go and talk to the Brazillian chaps surviving with wives and kids in Musheirib, the so called TEMPORARY accomodation they are living in for the last 10 months!

5) The Air Madrid guys where officially promised a 25% salary increase when they went to the roadshow in Spain. OFFICIALLY! Nothing was announced then yet but hey, whoever did the interviews could not care less!

6) Talk to the new joiners who, upon arrival in Doha, where dropped (again) in Musheirib at two o clock in the morning. They where given the keys to their EMPTY appartment together with a plastic bag containing one bottle of water, a roll of toilet paper and a towel. Nice first impression of the city and company I would say!

7) talk to the British snr FO who, upon two years of struggle to keep his medical, finally was declared unfit to fly for good. He tried to get his LOL money as thats what hapend...he LOST his licence for good! Sorry...No money for you mate....Blablablabla....Finally he calls the end insurer who tells him that we DO NOT HAVE a LOL.we have a cheap life insurance that will pay 100000USD in case you die/loose an arm or a legg in an accident. Unfortunately no deseases are covered as they all qualify as pre-existing condition in one wy or another.
Mind you, this guy was with QR for almost 5 years, had been flying since decades without a problem.

8) talk to the senior TRE who had to emigrate to EK because he could not afford to put his 4 kids to school in Doha anymore. The guy was virtually bankrupt!


As I told you...I have been here many years and I am more or less happy. And as you can see as well, I havent even touched the subject of the salary by far.
So for you and me its too easy really...we have a house and we are settled down!

But I can understand why the relatively new guys whine and moan. They are being liedto and cheated, they fall from one dissappointement in the other but unfortunately for most of them there is NO WAY BACK as they have resigned basing their decision on the same lies!

Maybe its time you wake up and smell the roses mate....Because I can assure you, life is not as good as yours for MANY MANY of our new colleagues!

[packtwoinop]

Time to bury my head and say no more

[Qatari515]

No more reply?


Maybe time to stick your head further up your own A** then....


I can not believe that I have people like yourself as colleague in this airline!


If I am not mistaken you propose the following:

* everybody should stop talking about the company, especially when it is negative information

* That way we will attract more people, so we resolve the shortage in all levels of the employees.

* By doing so, life would get better for everybody.....


Hahahahahahahahahahah....What planet are you from?

And in all this, you do not even feel the tiniest bit guilty for all the people that will be CONNED and Cheated in joining here?

You would actually deprive the world of the much needed info on which people base their decisions, decisions that can possibly alter their lives, just because you feel tired flying too much due to the shortage!:ugh:

If it wasnt for 4HP ban on the famous S*** word, I would say that your kind is even worse than the S***S.

I feel ashamed YOU are a pilot!

:mad: :* :mad:

[4HolerPoler]

:ok: Way to go 515 - Wow, you are pumped up - I can see your mushroom cloud from here. ;) Great posts but suck on something cold before that vein on your forehead explodes.

Keep up the great posts; avoid any direct personal attacks on your vertically challenged leader and we'll continue to expose them as exploiters of our brethren.

4HP

[Black Stain]

This airline is an industrial psychologists dream job. How do management possibly see any long term profit in the lies they tell to prospective Team Members.

And the list of lies continue. To those already listed above by 515 you can add one Swiss and two French First Officers that were apparently told one year, six months and two years to upgrade. Worse still, is that on the basis of the lies offered, two of them gave up jet commands back home to come and live here :( .

This is like a football team where half the players hate the coach.

[Qatari515]

4 HP,


Thanks for the concern mate but my mushroom clouds tend to be short lived. was relaxing over a Mojito allready ( yes we have them in Doha):ok:

Once in a while I am just stunned by the attitude of some of our fellow pilots...at least they think thats what they are...


Black stain...correct...forgot all about them...But what you are saying is absolutely true!:yuk:

[Mike Tuck]

Good link pack2. Its just like the QR recruitment - very fishy indeed. Take a pill.:rolleyes:

[NA]

QATARI 515,

You mentioned few sade cases in QR in your previous post, how about the many other happy cases in QR that you ignored.

How about the hundreds of F/o's ho have been upgraded and found a stable job in this airline.

How about the hundreds of captains' ho found a job, a type rating, and an income when things were bad in the pilot market.

Your example of the TRE that olmost died from hunger, and is working now in EK is ridiculos. I know the guy, please stop being a joke, I have childrens, and never found a problem in QR in terms of providing them education.

However, if you whant to have 10 childrens, and you whant them to be in the American school in Doha, paying almost 300,000 Riyal a year, of course you will suffer a financial failure.

I'm sorry, but your a cloun. You have chosen few sad cases, and omitted hundreds of satisfied people just because you are not happy.

And my question is: what the hell are you still doing in QR. the pilot market is so good these days. Just pay your bond, and find for your self your dream company.

QATARI 515: I believe that sadly your problem is bigger than QR. You will go to many other places in the future, and you will not be satisfied, just as you were not satisfied in your previous airline (since you left it, and came to QR).

[Qatari515]

NA,

I do not want to disembark on a pissing contest with you mate...:E

However, before you start bitching, ranting and raving....A couple of hints on how to use a forum.

1) Learn to read English. In case you would have bothered to do that you would have read that personally I AM HAPPY in qatar Airways. The discussion was about something else but hey, you want to continue...by all means go on!

2) Learn how to write english...Or if you do not want to do that, use a spelling corrector. They come for free with MS Word you know...You want to know why? Your spelling mistakes actually could give your identity away. People tend to make the same mistakes over and over again, just like you!:cool:

3) Get your facts straight. Hundreds of FOs upgraded!!!!! My friend, there are 800 pilots in this company. Three years ago: 0 upgrades. Two years ago: 23 upgrades. Last year: 37 upgrades. This year: planning is around 60. So yes, it is heading the right direction but hudreds....COME ON!!!!

I gave a couple of examples just to prove Mr Packtwoinop that its not all moonshine and roses over here. The TRE case was a true one and yes, he opted to put his kids in the American school. Thats his right isnt it? Fact to the matter is that he could NOT survive here finacially and he left! True or not?

You might not have problems with education overhere. Great! Good for you! But most people I fly with who have more than 2 kids have to pay money out of their own pockets!

And once more mister Literary wonder, I did not OMIT the people who are happy because that was NOT the point! The Point was to inform people, wether the info is good or bad!

But hey, if it makes you feel better. Here we go....

I ADMIT THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE INDEED HAPPY IN QATAR, AND THIS INCLUDES MYSELF!

Happy now?:ugh:

Which does not mean that there is no more space for improvement nor does it mean that QR is everybody's cup of tea. Which is why people have the right to be informed about the positive aswell as the negative issues!

And by the way, the painfull examples written down by Black stain, are they as well a coincidence, just bad luck or maybe the product of his imgination? Wake up mate....

NA....I have no bond whatsoever and dreamjobs do not exist anymore these days...But I am sure you did find that one out by yourself by now no?

And please, refrain ( that means STOP ) from talking about me as if you know who I am. I have NO problem of any kind as you where suggesting in your last sentence. Probably, I am here MUCH longer allready than you and again probably I will be here MUCH longer than you ever will be as well! :ugh:

That being said...Time for another Mojito......

[Mike Tuck]

:D Well said 515. Have to agree that life isn't all roses and its not all sh1t. I think through this forum, we at least easy some of our pressures. :cool:

[a330flyer]

Great posts there, 515!
The biggest problem: a lot of guys joining believe the lies they are told at the interview and join without a waterproof backup plan (or spend their money to settle in Doha and can't really afford to leave this place for a while)!:\
When joining Qatar Airways, always make sure you have a waterproof backup plan! ALWAYS!
I was fortunate enough to have one, took the risk of joining (despite the information I had found on pprune -- of which 90% turned out to be true!), liked it until the company refused to give me what was legally my right (won't go into detail, but getting a lawyer in Doha against the national airline is not quite as easy as it seems), and eventually went back to my old job!
So, join this wonderfully ambitious airline of happy people giving jobs to everybody so generously (just quoting Mr. N/A...), but make for god's sake and your family's sake sure you have a WATERPROOF BACKUP PLAN...
and enough savings to afford another move (backwards)!

[Black Stain]

Hey N/A.... You seem to have your finger on the pulse with management, or nose inserted, whatever. Go and find out something for us will ya.

This whole training bond business started after I joined. I recently did some training, but I never signed any bond. Do management expect me to pay it anyway?

I am sure to correct this oversight to their benefit they will just take the bond from my end of service gratuity.

And the next obvious question is, why hang about here for the three months notice period if there is no gratuity at the end??

Please dont tell me that it's the professional thing to do, I have never regarded the circus as a profession. Dont tell the clowns that though will you (note the correct spelling.... CLOWN).

Black Stain

[gnadirs]

Hell yeah....a tread just like the good old days!

515...well said young man! You hit the nail on the head. Some of these rock crawlers will never learn though....

Some Typos in your post as well but hey, I guess that has something to do with that throbbing vain on your forehead....Just joking...

And typos are not he same as blunt spelling mistakes Mr NA....


Some details, without getting personal:

UPGRADES (that means becoming Capt, all those of you who look at a fleet transfers as an upgrade should get their heads examined)

Only after 3 years in the company and 5000Hrs jet time! NEVER before..(instruction from upper mngmnt to prevent some of the second officers from upgrading to soon)

HOUSING

Capt --> Thre bedroom villa, if available. Dont expect a luxury lifestyle but ist honest accomodation

FO --> Two or three bedroom appartement. Crap accomodation in the middle of the soukh area in town. To be compared with Baghdad after the second gulf war. ( QR does not care if you have kids/wife/cat/dog)


SCHOOLING

50000QR max per year. Max 3 kids ( 50000 devided over 3) untill they turn 21. Overseas schooling is paid as well.

TRAINING BOND

Overhere, when you fart you will get bonded. So yes, they do exist.


These are facts and have nothing to do with the fact you do or dont like the company, living here etc....Those are personal things and everybody has to decide on those for themselves.( well, actually your future ex-wife will decide them for you)

NA and others.....Management needs good company mercenaries like yourselves badly. Go and knock on one of the doors there, bend over and youll get what you want!

But try to avoid poisoning others with your ideas....

The truth might hurt but everybody has the right to know it!

[Hajj Man]

Qatari515,

You said it very well.

HM:ok:

[ironbutt57]

All of this such a shame really, as a QR passenger in economy class..I was really impressed by the aircraft,(one could eat their meal off the toilet seat) and the crew...but the impression of the crew working out of fear as opposed to personal professional convictions was also VERY present....sort out this anomaly, and it would be airline utopia....

[popay]

NO NEED TO WALK THROUGH THE DIRT ANY MORE. What a wonderful day, isn't it? Please no need for cleaning, just tissues.:ok:
Quite a controversy matter presenting the company's issues on the pprune, isnt it?
Anyhow, welcome to Doha debate sponsored by your 5* airline.
Legal aspects about public statements:legally and according to the book we aren't allowed to make any public statements.
None of us has got the power of attorney from QR to represent the company and act on behalf of QR other than within the scope of the duty compelled.
I've no reason to believe any ethnic group in QR is absolutely incapable of representing their queries and if they don't, sorry boys .... Why some people take the freedom to speak on other's behalf remains THE question as much as the motive for such acting. Whether it's an intentional damaging or a burning desire to improve remains to be answered......True is also that publishing critical information provides the necessary adrenalin kick for the concerned persons and gets the job done. A little abuse for a good purpose doesn't really harm, does it?
Abusing the situation may I kindly remind the upper echelons about the absence of a valid employment contract, promised provident fund and long awaited solution for company accommodation, thank you.
I've proposed at the beginning a company internal forum where all the existing problems can be discussed and possible solutions found. Nothing new look at EK and some others. This would prompt a constructive discussion and possible lead to some improvement. OPEN COMMUNICATION CHANELLS IS THE ONLY WAY. However I don't think QR is ready for that, though on personal level it seems to be working at least on the 340 fleet. Too nice to be true in the company format. Transparency is the only way to get rid of any kind of rumors.
Last but not least anyone requiring any kind of legal assistance in Qatar please refer to the designated lawyers list published on the US embassy web side http://qatar.usembassy.gov/lawyers_in_qatar.html
I warmly recommend Law Office of Noora Sarhan to anyone bear in mind those guys charge quite a bit.
No offence boys but that's the way it looks.
Cheers.

[fullforward]

Don´t wanting to stir it up, but does anyone have an idea were QR would take the necessary drivers for the triples coming in the next few months in cascates?

[Black Stain]

sorry boys .... Why some people take the freedom to speak on other's behalf remains THE question as much as the motive for such acting.

Three answers in order of merit:

1. Light House Keeping. An ancient and worthy profession to warn others of danger.

2. Deeply rooted anger and resentment.

3. Sometimes it's just plain fun to rattle the monkeys cage.

[a330flyer]

Last but not least anyone requiring any kind of legal assistance in Qatar please refer to the designated lawyers list published on the US embassy web side http://qatar.usembassy.gov/lawyers_in_qatar.html
I warmly recommend Law Office of Noora Sarhan to anyone bear in mind those guys charge quite a bit.

...sure never saw a lawyer who refuses to take my money...
Though it might be hard in the ME to find a judge ruling against the national pride...
You might have realized that Qatar is a big country with a huge number of locals :}
Better make sure first who is who and who hates whom and who is married with whom and ....still, the lawyer won't refuse your money, but in a country like Qatar he will barely make a difference! If you seek justice, better do it in a civilized country... :ok:

[popay]

Black Stain, hi there.
Number 1 declined cause no one cares about others in QR unless it's a personal matter (I haven't seen Samaritans wearing a pilot uniform) and it's unrealistic to achieve any major change through pprune, except the tissues, I hope. In general that's the case everywhere. However that's your opinion.
Number 2 bought it's personal.
Number 3 is the most common cause.
A little excursion into the pprune rules:
We at PPRuNe also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.
Cheers.

[Qatari515]

Hi popay,,,


you give me the creeps with that legal mumbo jumbo of yours. Do you talk like that at home as well ?:}


Anyway, question for 4 HP


In the history of Pprune, has there ever been a case where you guys revealed a posters identity because of a complaint or legal action?

[4HolerPoler]

No. Never.

We've shut down posts and threads because we believed they constituted a legal threat to the owners of this site and we removed threads due to legal action, which after due consideration we concurred with, but never, despite frequent demands, have we revealed the identity of a member.

4HP

[popay]

QR 515, hi there. Nothing personal mate just facts. Just drawing public attention to the rules published. It's not something I've invented.
There's a discontent in logic and moral approach for some participants obviously in posting critical (true and not so true) information about the company causing a possible image damage and enjoying the benefits of employment of the same company at the same time. I'd applaud you if you were a journalist fighting for a liberalisation of QR and democratisation of Qatar bearing the consequences for your writing. Impunity makes sometimes people drifting away from the moral codex. The reasons for that have been listed above. Those are two different pairs of shoes freedom of speech and bitching, I hope you agree on that one. One thing, I agree upon, is that it doesn't improve the situation whatsoever on the contrary it only aggravates it. Having said that some people actually do derive benefits from pilot shortage by flying more and getting more, why not!? Finally if one feels like urgently needed to reveal the "TRUTH" it 'd be appropriate to become a journalist not a pilot. Again I don't agree with many thing happening here however it's a question of moral and ethical attitude regarding the information passing to the outside world with one exception only if the matter concerns and affects someone personally. In this case I'd say by all means use whatever media available to achieve the goal and that's what I suggest to A330-300 if he/she is serious about the claim. I think we should be a bit more prudent in dealing with sensitive information unless of course the aim is to scare the people away from QR and enjoy the benefits of controlled chaos.
I hope that's not a case. Again the absence of proper communication does cause the frictions.
Cheers.

[Qatari515]

Got the point.

And I agree with you, is spreading of wrong information only happens for personal purposes it should be stopped. Some people do get a kick from stirring the pot, just for the heck of it.

That being said, I will always fight for the right of freedom of speech, as well as the right everyone has to be informed correctly.

People have the right to know what they are up against. people have the right to get all info in order to base their decisions on something correctly

Personally I believe this can only be done by telling the truth. And as we all know the truth can be positive as well as negative.

That is why, when something is good I will post it here when asked. But the same goes for the negative aspects overhere.

And no, this has nothing to do with any ambition to be a journalist. Back home, wherever that might be for any of us, most of us where represeneted by a union. And the union provided a forum for anyone in need to blow of steam..

Overhere, unfortunately, unions are illegal. But people still need to vent their frustrations from time to time.

Pprune is just one of the ways at our disposal here.

And if at the same time the forum can be used to inform anybody intrested, I dont see any harm in it!

Once more , deliberately harming any company or any private person, without any good back up, should be halted becase it jeopardises the good and truthfull info coming through.

Thats why the mods are here....

[popay]

QR 515 roger that. Emotional point is taken. Truth however is somewhat controversy. Never mind. Talking about union here is the reference from the labour law of Qatar:
PART TWELVE
WORKERS ORGANIZATIONS
Article (116)
The workers working in an establishment where the number of Qatari workers is not less than hundred workers may form a committee from amongst themselves to be named " the Workers Committee" and more than one committee in the establishment may not be formed.
The workers committees in the establishments engaged in one trade or industry or similar or interrelated trades or industries are entitled to form a general committee from amongst themselves to be named the General Committee for the Workers of Trade or Industry.
The general committees of the workers of the various trades and industries may form amongst themselves a general union to be named the! "General Union of the Workers of Qatar".
The membership in the two committees referred to and in the General Union of the Workers of Qatar shall be confined to the Qatari workers. The Minister shall specify the conditions and procedures for the formation of the workers organizations referred to and the membership therein and the way of carrying out their business and the interrelated and similar trades and industries.
As you can see it's absolutely legal to form union but it's reserved for the Qatari nationals. Reading further employees can go on strike here according to the article 120. It's all up to the Qatari nationals what this airline is gonna be like. Kuwait is the best example.
Anyway if anyone is interested here is the link http://www.qatarembassy.net/Qatar_Labour_Law.asp
Cheers.

[Black Stain]

We at PPRuNe also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.



Either you are naive or I am paranoid, but I am quite sure QR knew exactly who I was from the very first post. I dont bother with internet cafes, so Qr security via the Qatari Police and Qtel can find out the telephone number, street address and hence the occupant Black Stain's real name without too much effort.

Big deal....

Do I plan a long future here.... no
Have I told any lies.... no
Worried about termination.... no (positive financial outcome)

The only moral issue for debate here is the telling of lies and the abuse of the labour resource.

Yeah I rattle a few cages for pleasure, just like the locals rattle my cage on the roads, the desert, the waters etc.... Strangely I feel no guilt, am I a sinner???


(I haven't seen Samaritans wearing a pilot uniform)


Believe it or not Popay, I do actually feel the dissappointment of the FOs that were tricked into employment here. They will not speak up on this forum now because they need to recover something from this mess. Dont condemn them for their careful silence. I on the other hand have nothing to lose and am not prone to regret or embarressment.

[popay]

B.S hi there. Well, everyone shall get what he/she is asking for. I'd prefer to call you abstract Jesus if you don't mind cause all you do is just feel sorry. I will need a sacrifice in order to be able to call you a real Jesus. As you know that's what he did. Sorry mate not enough if you claim injustice. Any airline and it's spirit is created by the commanders, it's undeniable fact. I suppose you're one. So what have you done to eliminate the lies or to safeguard the abused rights of poor F/Os? Easy to sit at home and punch the knobs, isn't it? Did you confront the management with it? Did you speak up during the meeting? Did you do anything to restore justice other than just posting on pprune? Is that the way you care about f/os? Your carelessness doesn't do any good for us.
Anyway I stand on what I believe and that's common practise around the globe.
There's information for public use and internal memorandum. That's the whole point. Whatever and however the airline might be it's not about it. It's about our professionalism.
Cheers.

[4HolerPoler]

You two need to get out of the sun immediately; it's having a very bad effect on you - what on earth are you babbling on about? Get a grip or continue your parables by PM or email please.

4HP

[2lowgear]

Can someone give me an idea of how much $$$ I could expect to take home if I were to accept an offer for the A330 F/O (in company accomodation)? Also if I tried to buy property, what could I get for say 1,500,000. I'm trying to figure out if I'm better off where I am (GF). Thanks

[ArielDC10]

Anybody could tell how the interviews and the simulator assesment in QR.
I will have the interviews and sim on next June.

Thanks.

[a330flyer]

There used to be some great threads on this forum answering all your questions in detail. Some people had made a great effort providing all the information one could need before going for the interview or consider joining.
Unfortunately these threads have been removed. QR's top management didn't like them and started some legal stuff against the guys running this site. Knowing the determination of certain people in Qatar I can understand that it might have been a good move to prevent further damage and to remove these threads.:\
But I doubt that the people who had given a lot of their precious time writing lots of good advice will again put in the same effort again...sorry:=
Basically what happened with these threads says a lot about the management of this airline, doesn't it?:ugh:
Nevertheless, good luck with your application and don't forget to check Emirates and Etihad before even considering Doha and QR!:ok:

[Deutscher]

Well, having read almost all threads on Qatar Airways, negative and positive, I made a decision to join. Starting 7th of July.

[Mike Tuck]

Direct Entry Captain on the A330? Why not? Everyone else has. :}

[Tachi]

M.T. can you confirm them getting 777 ads well. and do u know how many you are in your batch.

[ArielDC10]

Do you know if QR is hiring non type rated crews for the B777???

[Qatari515]

QR is hiring type rated pilots on A320/330 and B777 at the moment

Non type rated will stop next month. Too many applicants looking for a cheap TRTO to get a good rating I guess.

[popay]

ArielDC10, hi there. My friend, you wanna get hired invest 10 sec of your time and do some research. You'll find a vast number of all kind of information about the wages and the interview. Besides a lot of info is published on the company web side itself.:ok:
Cheers.

[Black Stain]

The last several posts are sea-change indicative, pilots are interested and asking questions. Very good. But your questions asked, seem all about what rating will I get and how much will I earn. Unless you are planning a quick exit there are other far more important questions to ask.

Struck dumb and dont know what to ask? Dad go ask your wife and kids what they expect.

For info, the company does finally see this 'quality of life' issue as vitally important and all current pilots have been invited to comment on a plan to acquire a suitable compound for flight crew with all the expected amenities. This may be a very long and possibly fruitless diversion if history is a credible resource.

Damn.... I think I hid something positive in there somewhere! Well credit given where credit due.

But still, for some familys it is good, but just too late....

[Mike Tuck]

Its the same story as the parking facilities for the Tech building. Yes there will be dedicated parking for the Tech building, with rumours of a multi-story car park. Now .... sorry its too late because will be at the new airport soon. Oh, and by the way, there will be no parking for the Flightcrew there. OK parking is not a big deal, and dodging the traffic while crossing the airport road (thats nearly finished now!) carrying a flightbag and suitcase can make/or death entertaining. The point is, the pointlessness of it - Lies and subterfuge are rife' but its part of the rich pattern. Again, spot on BS.

"Out dam spot"

[loc22550]

well if you think that Q.A. cares about the huge risk we take everytime we have to cross this street(because this is a real risk here, with all those idiot ,brainless drivers here!).Management have their own parking stand..that´s enough..!
Accidents happen YEARS ago, they known it.....and what was the reaction of the company....NOTHING!
Oh yes i forgot.. the LOL insurance is there anyway...so why we should be worried...?:ugh:

[a330flyer]

Hey Deutscher

Congratulations!

Important in life is not to regret anything later. Although I made some pretty bad experiences with this company and their bosses I look back on my time with Qatar Airways as a good lesson in life.

Been there, done it!

Just a piece of advice: wherever you're planning to leave now, don't burn your bridges, keep in touch with everybody back home and always make sure that there's an emergency exit available! If you have that option in your bag, you'll actually be able to enjoy a bit of your Doha turnaround (for lots of guys it's even a quick turnaround...)

So go there, be happy with your decision, stop reading pprune for a while, enjoy your new life, but most importantly DON'T LOOK BACK and DON'T COMPARE with your previous life (for about a year).

After one year look back and compare. And then get back on this forum and let us know with all your honesty, how Doha and Qatar Airways compare to the real world. Let's hope we can look forward to some positive posts, inshallah!:E

Take care!:ok:

[2lowgear]

I think I've heard and read enough about QR to know what to expect. If I still end up coming, I guarantee you it won't be for the fresh summer breeze.

[Black Stain]

Hey Too Low,

I am sure you have several irons glowing red hot right now. It is now Management's time to row the boat, pilots can enjoy riding the waves for a long while yet.

Suggestion: If QR is low on your list because you dont want to live in Doha, but you dont want to cross the airline off completely, then why not make them an offer??

Example: "I am willing to work with you at QR, but my family cannot/will not live in Doha. What can you do?"

This solution is actually profitable, sensible and although short sighted people cannot see it yet, it is the airline's destiny.

[popay]

Anyone thinking of buying a property in Doha please have a look at the 5 best cities in the US. THe winner is
Walla Walla, Washington
Population: 30,000
Maximum income tax: 0%
Sales tax: 8.3%
Typical three-bedroom house: $275,000
Est. property tax: $3,500 to $4,100
This southeastern Washington town has become a destination for wine connoisseurs, urban refugees and roving retirees, despite its out-of-the-way location. 19th century Italianate-style commercial buildings are being revamped to house art galleries, bookstores and restaurants. Three colleges are hubs of activity for retirees, who can enjoy classical music, lectures or lifelong learning classes. Walla Walla home prices, up more than 50% over the past five years, are still affordable by big-city standards.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL0827425.html
Now compare that to three bed room apartment in the Perl something like 500000 US$. On top of that the mortgage isn't insured against income shortfall. Lets see how successful the project will be.:confused:
Cheers.

[akbar330]

Don't even think about it :=

[popay]

Hey folks, don't get mad get rich!!!:ok:
It's kind of too silent, even getting scary!!!! Hello.......anyone alive out there? Speak up!!! It's dark and lonely in the virtual world. Come on gals lets have some fun!!:ok:

[Youks]

Indeed too quite!!!:)

[Plutos]

Hi guys,
after the last burning emails everybody withdraw into their own lairs...
... but I have a an easy question (back to earth please)
Can anyone tell me how are the roasters on the A320 ?(layovers/destinations)
Tks :cool:

[Black Stain]

A320 Rosters... you picked a fun topic Plutos.

50 hours stick with 120 hours duty, to
80 hours stick with 150 hours duty.

How is it possible to get a roster where the ratio of Duty Time to Flight Time is more than 2:1 ??

BAH return: 8 hours duty for 1.2 hours flight time
DXB return: 8 hours duty for 2.0 hours flight time
AUH return: 8 hours duty for 1.8 hours flight time
KWI return: 8 hours duty for 2.5 hours flight time
MCT return: 8 hours duty for 2.6 hours flight time.

The above dutys are all night duties:ooh:

You can expect to do at least 4 of these every month, sometimes strung three in a row....

Top of the list obsene duty is the 4 sector split night duty around the gulf. The rules were changed to make this duty legal. 12 hours duty, split between the 3rd and 4th sector for the minimum 3 hours. Rest taken on board. You will get at least one of these every month.

On top of that you can expect night duties for 22 hour stopovers in TRV, COK, MAA, HYD, CMB, NBO. If you complain to the CP about your ****ty life you will get the odd SEZ, DAR or VIE.

Your remaining duties will be a few early starts or late finishes on short sectors around the gulf.

You may see the odd day flight on your roster, but 90% of those available are preselected by the training department. When will the training slow down? Never.

Are you Qatari Plutos? If so delete all of the above.

[popay]

Question for farternity? Is that rooster, roaster or roster?:}

[Plutos]

Thanks B.S. for all the infos
I think nowadays everywhere the "rosters" are very tough and u have to deal with it, this is the job we choose... (sorry for my previous spelling but that day I had a wake up duty at 0400).

Can u explain this ?

You may see the odd day flight on your roster, but 90% of those available are preselected by the training department. When will the training slow down? Never.


You mean there is a lot of training in the airline and the shifts are differents for the trainees ?:sad:

[CEO PITA]

CEO on meeting stated that A 320 will fly more with new destinations and increased freq to one we fly naw.
After that he removed overtime ,cheated with words ( service in airline was reaplaced to year of entry in grade) so many senior pilots got nothing !
Naw we can fly 900 h and no overtime will be given . So its time for good old sick leave and not answering rosters calls !
Option N 2 is Etihad and sooner better till somthing happened over here !
TERMINATION is alwes after Capt ass !

[StandAlone]

With your english skills the termination is eminent or imminent:}

[popay]

Hurray!!!!! we got some action in QR Kindergarten.:D:D:D:D Interesting observation: Has anybody noticed how many people participate on pprune from QR and how many from EK. What a huge difference, isn't it? Is that good or bad?:confused::confused:

[gnadirs]

Fair enough popay,


but c'mon, this guy's english is of such a low level somebody had to react to it....

What we need in qatar:

1) Language testing for new joiners. Seriously! Some of these new south american gringos we fly with lately even have problems just giving a take off brief in English...Imagine what it would be like in an emergency situation..

2) Psycho and Psychomotorical testing. Too many big egos flying around here. Would you call it normal if a guy demands his wife and kids to call him Captain, even when at home???Or what about all these FOs who have an email adress that starts with [email protected] and a clear sign of a personality disorder if you ask me!




:mad:

[tiltgain]

Gnadirs:

Of course there is a flight deck communication problem caused by the language barrier, in fact I think the remark should be spread to other parts of the world, not only the "south american gringos". Tell you what, let's take it all the way back to also involve the cabin crew.

Pilots having family call them captain at home, that is just crazy. The previous and almost unreadable post, another joke (it has to be), I think some people are just answering popay's cry for entertainment.

I agree with you, we need pilots that have not only flying skills, but social and communication skills. I hate throwing stones and making remarks, cause what goes around comes around.

So, regarding your post, be aware that any proffessional may see your first point as a racial issue, and that in any psycho testing (that you say we all should have) will throw a red flag. Sorry, but as you were right about the english language problem being a safety concern, others will say that you are also a potential threat.

I am assuming that English is your first language, as you can tell, it isnt mine. I just find it amusing that first you complain about others lack of knowledge, lack of skill and lack of brains....but then, unless it is a joke (cause there is no way it is a typo), you bash nationalities, think an email aDress is funny and find something rEdiculous.

But, let's not divert, communication barrier.... yes, huge problem, I am part of it. Some people just dont have a clue.... yes, previous post (unless it was to satisfy popay) is a clear example of what can happen with an uncontrolled expansion.

Take care and I hope popay didnt get bored with this one.:)

[gnadirs]

Oh my god......!!!!
You got me there....I have written a typo....how bad is that!
At least you got the message now didnt you!

Address....ridiculous....

I can find some typos in your post to if you want me to but hey....lets not start kindergarten all over again ok?

And for your info....English is NOT my first language nor is it my second one...
My friend, I did not bash nationalities, that is why on purpose I refrained from targetting any nationalities specifically! I could if I would want to....

All I was saying that we have a huge influx of spanish/portugese speaking pilots at the moment and a huge percentage of them do not know how to speak proper English! And that, in an airline with 60 nationalities, could pose a huge danger!
So nothing to do with nationalities but language skills!
Some years ago most French people where not accepted here because they had a too strong accent.....Is that racism? No, its a clear fact that you need to be able to verbally comunicate both inside as well as outside the flight deck!

Recently an instructor had to tell his two trainees in the sim that, if necessary, they should comunicate in Spanish with eachother because they where lost in english. That is really BAD if you ask me! Up to you to guess where both pilots where from......

Relax mate....and have a Caipirinha....I will have one right now!
( the word Gringo was used as a joke, just like Yanks are yanks, Tommys are tommys, froggs are froggs...no offense ment)

[Mr Ho]

You fink you all very crever wif rong engrish words. Wun day you all have learn Chinese. You all fink that for awhrile. :8

[tiltgain]

Of course I got your point, not only that, I agreed with it. In fact, let me add to it; I invite you to open the book in one of your flights and have your partner read it. Please let me know how many times interpretation is an issue.

And back to the subject of tolerance, "gringo" is a word that may be insulting to certain individuals. If you know the word, chances are that you know it can also be insulting. You mentioned 60 nationalities, whe have to find the best way to communicate and be able to avoid conflict. Now, you are also entitled to an opinion and the public has to deal with it.

Enough of that, I think I am borderline b.s.....any news on how things are going on at JNB lately? after all, isn't this pprune?

[popay]

tiltgain, hi there. Thanks a lot for the entertaining post. It finally starts to get a bit intellectual here. Gnadirs, thanks mate you read my mind. A 16 PF is the absolute minimum QR MUST do ab initio, if they are serious about the quality. It takes max 30 min to complete it and it's pretty accurate. English knowledge is simply out of question it's a must. Absolutely 100% right decision to launch the 16 pf test for the command upgrade provided it's not abused for political reasons. We have enough creepy crap from the old "good" times bull****ting around, thinking everyone around them is too damn stupid to understand it. I totally agree that GF boys would be a big plus for QR. It's a standard everywhere else in the world to have a personal profiling, but not here yet.
It's by the way part of annual medical for the military pilots and those guys are way ahead. :ok:
Cheers.

[Terry Wrist]

Good idea, but....

A high percentage of the current workforce would probably be diagnosed as nutbags to be kept well clear of complex machinary. :rolleyes:

The recruitment motto is "Any able Body and Every Able Body We Accept". Do you want to destroy one of the only carrots in the QR recruitment bag?

Improve all the working conditions first; then and only then, can you can raise the entry bar whilst the wheels turn.

[Black Stain]

Sorry, but to reply to question asked I will diverge from current stream.

Due to expansion and replacement the A320 fleet will always be a training fleet. Humans never learn much between 10pm and 6am so the bulk of the choice day flights go to the training department. Fair enough. But as a line pilot, you will have to build your life around horrid duties.

The bottom line is that there is no need for it. There are other options where the 8 hour two sector night duties are changed into a sequence of early and late finishes with overnights in-between. Sleeeep is important, that is after all why we have the red lines of Flight and Duty Time Limitations.

Past 4 years, the issue has been raised three times, with three different Chief Pilots. Instead of fixing the problem this type of duty has increased from one to six.

If you come here, "you are here to work", and that's a regular management quote.

I actually work only to fulfill my plans and the dreams of my family.

That idea is a foreign concept to most QR employees, but think carefully about your overall life plan before you come here.

[fullforward]

One could shed some light over QR Medical for new joiners, please?

[loc22550]

Regarding the end of service benefit(wich may concern a lot people), just hope they are still taking into consideration the date of joining the company and note the date of entry for your latest grade or upgrade..!!

Anybody who is well informed knowns if(and when) they gone pay our due overtime for the period 2006-2007, or if they gone steal it....

Fullforward,
QR medical...not very tough....
Only one "big" check when you join the company(X-ray,blood test,ECG, eyes,ears ckeck...) then one "small" check every year...

[salamalikum2]

Question for any imminent Mathematician:

What is the benefit of the new basic salary here (i mean for people who are flying a lot for the company), if there is no overtime payment anymore (wich used to represent 1 MONTH FULL salary if you are close to 900 hours!!), answer:peanuts...

Once again Q.A. has failed to demonstate his capacity to motivate people to stay here(as money is the only motivation here)... and his will to continue to recruit only desperated people...!
Cheers.

[popay]

salamalikum2, hi there. How do you know there's no overtime any more? Maybe I've missed something but I haven't seen any memo or so. You might be right just asking? Another thing why don't you try and make an sample calculation for us to show what you mean?
Cheers.

[salamalikum2]

Hello Popay, oh i don´t known, me too... i haven´t seen anything, (that´s why i said "if"...), but some people who seems more informed... ,came here and pretend that there will be no overtime payment anymore...So..where did they got the information...?? As we say "there is no smoke without fire".
Wait and see...
But for sure for this year, i didn´t received yet any overtime payment..
But if my memory is still ok, last year we received it mid June,so..hope still exists..!

[auto thrust off]

THX for the info

[Ajax]

A couple of Qatar questions if anyone would be so kind as to help me out :

I have 1000 A320 and 4000 TT, what sort of hours requirement do you need as a new joiner FO to go straight onto the A330? If you do go on the A320 when might you expect to get the bigger 'bus?

Also, I've pretty much read everything there is to read on PPRUNE about the new pay deal and think I understand it 99% but I have to ask, am I definitely right that there's no pension / end of service gratuity at QR? Seems to be a big shortcoming compared to EK if that's the case. How are you guys saving for your retirements?

[tiltgain]

Can anybody with knowledge in economics tell me how is the reported 15% inflation in first quarter expected to behave for the rest of the year? Real effect on relative and absolute values when talking about salary.

News also reported that rent won't come down for at least 2 years, how can we account for that? How will you people cope?

I guess any info will also be good for the aspiring new joiners.

[loc22550]

Ajax..there is a end of service benefit..2/3 of your basic/year in the comapny, 4 week of basic/year if you survive here more than 5 years...
well this is the qatar law...Good luck to enjoin your pension with that..!:hmm:
How do the people managed to save for retirement...:? By leaving Q.A.!:uhoh:

[villian]

Hi there
Any reason to join as aF/O?
How do you think how soon can i estimate an upgrade with your airline(if any for expats)
and what would be conditions of that?
my TT 6300 jet , 737EFIS -2733, current F/O320 -2500hrs

would be happy to receive a PM

[fullforward]

Any idea on the prospective package for the upcoming B777 pilots?

[Qatari515]

The same as for all the other pilots!

QR does NOT make a difference in package, no matter if you are flying an A319 or an A340-600HGW

So do a search and youll find an answer!:rolleyes:

[CEO PITA]

If you jojn QR as F/O today ( hours do not make difference) you will be F/O N 445 so there is 445 F/Os to be promoted before you and all will have hours in 3 y .You will have to wait for aprox 10 y becouse QR is promoting at the moment 3 f/o in 30 days and it will increase INSALAH to 4 in 30 days in future so you can count !
If you want money jojn but if you want 4 strips on shoulder run into Etihad or Jazzera or Arabia or any small EU airline .
Good luck

[fullforward]

...by the way, I first wear 4 stripes almost 20 years ago...

[Ausbus]

qatarinterview.com is in my opinion a waste of money if you are looking to PREPARE for an interview with Qatar. It is not very current and it devotes most of it's pages on living in Qatar. Hardly anything on tech quiz. Not worth it better to go buy some interview prep books.Its ok if you want to know about living and working with Qatar but am sure you will be given that info from the airline at the appropriate time.

[IR-Pirate]

Hi guys,

A couple of months ago I was offered a job by QR as FO on the A320. But due to personal circumstances did not accept the offer and it expired after 2 weeks.

Does anyone know if the offer will still stand, and if so how long?

cheers

[loc22550]

Ausbus;..."devotes..most of it s pages of living in qatar...":)....wondering what they are talking about....,very easy going and tolerant country:daily race on the corniche performed by idiot, crazy driver..who cares..?The non smoking rule in public place not respected by anybody...who cares.....and so and so.Funny to heard some people thinking that qatar is very strict...:ugh:
Oh yes when it comes to religion..that's a different story...:bored:
cheers.

[hr-man]

Hi, i was wondering if any one could tell me who the current hr exec at qatar is. Also, when did he come in (approx.) and who did he replace. Also, why did the previous guy leave? I heard he was french?

Thanks alot in advance.

[saurabh3679]

Can anyone please tell me what is the salary for F/O in QA on A320 ?

I have ICAO ATPL with 900 hrs on A320.. total experience 2500 hrs, A310, B744, A320 endorsed...

thanks

[cnic]

Can anyone advise if the housing situation has changed. I have been told that QR are building there own housing but no one will give me a date when it will be ready. I have heard that they promise company housing but when you get there they say that nothing is available and push you out into the private market on their very low housing allowance. I have to make a decision to move soon so any help with this would be great.