Medevac Aircraft Required

[LGW Vulture]

Have a client looking for a Medevac Aircraft with 1500 - 2000nm range, easily convertible to corporate config.

Requirements for 1 casualty, 3 medics, Oxygen, Ventilator,Defibrillator etc.

Any ideas on suitable aircraft?

[Daifly]

Learjet 45.
1,800 nm range - arguably 2,000.
Room for two stretchers, one definately.
Three medics + stretcher OK.
$10m.

Older aircraft.
Hawker 700.
Similar range.
Room for two stretchers. Loading over the wing through the emergency exit - a bit of a nuisance.
Three medics + relative.
$5-7m. Probably less with the US recession.

I thought you were an Aviation Analyst though?!

[LGW Vulture]

Daifly - One should never hide one's light under a bushel!

[DROGNA]

I hear there could be a couple of Swiss Hawker 800's in ambulance configuration for sale! Don't think they've ever been in VIP config though.
;)

[GeoffreyH]

If interested we have a large selection of aircraft worldwide that may be suitable for your requirement. The type will very much depend on what sort of distances will be involved.

[LGW Vulture]

To those of you that replied overtly and covertly, thanks very much.

I am now the keeper of a number of specs.

Lear 35 + 55's the order of the day I feel.

[StressFree]

Daifly,
Many years ago I did a lot of ambulance flying in Hawker 700's and never once had to use the overwing exit for loading. Also this same plane would be put back into exec. config very quickly. The medics on board always used to prefer the 125 over the Lears because of its extra space and headroom. I've never flown a Lear but for the description given at the top of this thread I would think a Hawker is hard to beat.

Cheers.


:cool:

[Daifly]

Hi Stressfree,

Interesting one that - certainly there are two in the UK on HOSP work that load through the emergency exit. Perhaps it's to do with the bar/baggage store area on those particular aircraft?

LGW Vulture
I'd be intrigued to see the costs involved in making the 35 EGPWS/TCAS/RVSM equipped - it's the reason why most European operators are getting rid of them. I think the 55's probably got enough room to add all the kit - if it wasn't in there already?

[LGW Vulture]

Daifly - Not too concerned about European regs, but you're right, the Lear 55 has just about everything and at the right price.

Not sure about the corporate config interior of 700's these days, they always look a little dated to me.

[StressFree]

Morning Daifly,
I expect youre right, if there are the usual obstructions around the 125 door then the overwing could be your only choice. I must have been lucky.I spent years flying 125's and always found them solid and reliable.
All the best.

:cool:

[tempilot]

We have a HS 125 in VIP config. but with a quick-change medevac package, including stretcher etc. for sale.

[Chimbu chuckles]

I am currently flying a Falcon 200 on Medivac ops all over South East Asia with the odd trip to the ME.

2000+nm range.

2 life ports,2 medical crew and 3 relatives.

A real seperate toilet at the rear.

A good size galley.

Good size external baggage.

Easily made RVSM/RNP10 etc, many are already.

EFIS/TCAS and Dual FMS basically standard fit.

Cruise up to FL410/Mach .80

Fantastic payload/range from short runways.

10 for sale world wide, 5 mill would see you into a reasonably low time mid 80s model.

Yes they cost probably USD250.00 more in MSP Gold costs than some comparable midsize corporate jets but capital costs are low and therefor lease costs.

Any older Hawkers will send you broke on airframe maintenance alone.

Our medical crews occasionally go out in a LR35 when the Falcon is on a trip or in for maintenance. In their opinion if a patient suffers a coronary or some such in flight all they can do is sit back and hope they don't suffer long, there is no room to work over a patient in a LR35. There is no room for ANYTHING in a LR35. LR35 RVSM approval expensive and problematic. RNP10 approval almost impossible as no room for dual approved area nav equipment. LR55 a little better but capital costs much higher. LR45 a very good aeroplane but over operating costs almost identical to Falcon 200 due to the capital costs. i.e. LR45 lease payments USD100,000.00/mth, DA200 USD49000.00/mth. We average 50-60hours/mth, I'll leave you to calculate the difference in capital costs as an hourly rate!!

DA200, a truly great little jet.

Yes I'm biased :D

Chuck.

[ 07 December 2001: Message edited by: Chimbu chuckles ]

[LGW Vulture]

C C... Thanks for that, but the Falcon 200 is a little pricey!

[Chimbu chuckles]

You gets whats ya pay for!

Chuck

[rick1128]

One of the biggests problems I have with the Falcon 200 is the engines. Yes, there is presently MSP available, but I have heard rumors that the day the US Coast Guard parks their last Falcon, Garrett will stop supporting the engine. There are not enough of those engines out there for anyone to consider supporting it on their own.

I have done medievacs for many years. Generally the patient is stable before they leave for transport. Even when they are being moved from poor care to a much better facility, they are more or less stable before moving.

So a Lear would be usable. My experience with medical teams are that they wouldn't be happy unless they were in a BBJ with a full surgical suite.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Interesting point about support for the ATF3! How far away is the CG from parking their aircraft I wonder? Still you could probably re-engine with the TFE731 and still not have spent as much as a new 800xp and the Falcon is the better aeroplane, IMHO.

Chuck.

[Will Rogers]

LGW:

There is a company in Copenhagen, Denmark who operates a Learjet 35 and Citation I & II for medivac flights all over the world. The Learjet has extended range and can easily do 2000 nm (I've heard :) ). Very reasonable pricing to ;) .

Check out www.northflying.com (http://www.northflying.com)

Good luck!

Will :D

[rick1128]

It is my understanding that the Coast Guard already has a few HU25's in storage at Davis Motham (Boneyard). While it may be a few years before the last one is parked, it is coming. As for a 731 conversion, it isn't economicly fesable. Besides I don't think the 731 has enough growth in it to push that heavy an aircraft. And the 200 is heavy.

Avcon has a mod for the Lear 35 and 36 to expand the fuel load about 800 pounds. They expand the tip tanks about 18 inches. The full mod also adds delta fins and increases the max take off and landing weights. It may also increase the zero fuel weight. Garrett has a mod to the 731-2 to increase the power, I believe it is the -2C mod. And I have heard that there is an STC in the works to put -3's on the 35 and 36.

[Chimbu chuckles]

There is lot's of modded Falcon 20s with 731s, the later 20Fs are very similar to the 200 airframe wise :confused:

As to whether it's worth it from a financial point of view, that's another question. If it can be done for less than 12mill all up it probably is if you operate from less than about 6000' of black top.

Chuck

[rick1128]

Chimba, the problem here in the USA is that there have been serveral rule changes in 14CFR Part 25 in the recent past. I understand the FAA is now saying that if you make a major change in an aircraft you have to meet the current regulations completely. So it makes a certification program expensive. For a few aircraft, it is outside the resources of a small company. As for weight, I don't have the figures in front of me, I am of the understanding that the 200 is considerably heavier than the 20F. I do know that the construction is much different in the 200 than the 20's.

As for the 200/20 being better than the Hawker. I personally diagree. I have operated both as a pilot and as a manager. Both are very fine flying machines. But maintenance wise, the Hawker is much easier to maintain. Granted I was not operating the latest or greatest of either aircraft. The 20 was s/n 16 at the time the highest time 20 in the world (27,000 hrs) and the Hawker was a 600 fan. There is something positive to be said about "KISS" "Keep It Simple Stupid".

[Chimbu chuckles]

I know next to nothing of US regs.

I'll take your word about the differences between a 20F and 200.

The investigations we did on older Hawkers was they were a maintenance nightmare airframe wise. I'm talking now of the 700 and 400 Fan. 8 yearly total x ray requiring dismantling? Perhaps doesn't apply to US registered Hawkers.

I've not flown a Hawker, although I believe they are very nice to pole around. I have compared the interiors of our 200 to an 800xp that is new an spends more time in our hanger than you would credit, and feel the Falcon is roomier in back although the 800xp has a little more space up front where I sit.

Performance wise out of our home base Seletar(ASDA 5400) the Falcon beats the 800xp on payload range although from an unlimiting runway they would both pull max loads obviously with the 800xp having an edge on max range. I think the Falcon 200 would probably beat the Hawker in cruise speed.

I'm an unashamed Falcon fan I'm afraid, I would happily fly nothing else but Falcons for the rest of my career, even if it was just the 200 and not the flasher Falcon 900/2000 etc.

Having flown British before in the airlines and owning a British car(XJSV12)I firmly believe the British HAVE NEVER applied the KISS principle to anything mechanical they have ever built, let alone aeroplanes. :D

Chuck

[411A]

The Lockheed 1329-25 (JetStar2) might be suitable, has the range and a LARGE cabin, but with 4 engines, rather thirsty.
However, the capital cost is reasonable and with a recent heavy check, trouble-free ops can be assured. A delight to fly and the pax like it a lot. Very good tech support from Lockheed and Duncan Aviation.

[Airking]

Hi,
if you´re really interested in ambulance, talk to the german operator AERODIENST.
They do Medevac for the german autoclub ADAC, operating 2 KA350; 1 LR35; 2 HS125-1000. They have their own Strechter/ loading System (STC´ed), the best i´ve ever seen, and its for sale. As for availble space, the med personell hates the Lear ! So, if you need a contact there, try 0049 911 93560 (telephone desk). They´re also a pretty good maintenace shop for LR / HS / Beech / Piper.
Their Internetadress is AERO-DIENST.de or aerodienst.de .
Greeetings

[clear to land]

I know its not as fast/flash as a jet, but for cost/payload/field conditions the B350 would be right up their, and you could have two lifeports plus medicos and still carry full fuel. :D

[blended winglet]

125 door access;

in my previous life I was a Design Engineer
for an (in)famous local company,
we investigated stretcher access on the
Co exec' flight 125-700;
Comclusion:- a bit tight, but OK, so long as the galley with the full height forward panel is not installed, (most have a cut down panel to facilitate access)
The Co sold the jet before we had a chance
to pursue it further.
(I got my first jet time in it though
thank you very much ;-)

Lears are pretty low in ceiling height in comparison, the 125 was always preferred
for general exec' pax, but now
challengers seem to rule from what I have seen when I taxi past the old place.

[eji]

I'd look into the IAI 1124, otherwise known as a westwind. While relatively inexpensive to purchase 1.7 - 2.7 million dollars it gives you the most bang for your buck. Low operating cost,about $800/hr along with low maintenance, and good comfort it is an extremley reliable aircraft. The cabin is larger than that of a lear 35 plus it has an enclosed/separate lav, not a honeypot, and a large galley. You also can't compare the range with a westwind, able to travel 2400 miles and still have ifr reserves. The Garrett 731 is also well documented and very reliable. While she's not the prettiest bird on the ramp there is no other plane in its class that can do what she can do for the cost. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[LGW Vulture]

Thanks for that Fl450, but where this baby's going, IAI are not the most ideal manufacturing letters in the world.

Get my drift??

[eji]

That's why the aircraft did not sell well. However the aircraft support is now fully operated by a USA company. General Dynamics bought them and Gulfstream and renamed the Astra and Galaxy lines to G100 and G200 respectively. However the old westwind still carries it's original moniker. If it's affordable an Astra is also a quality aircraft but money- wise a lear might be a better deal. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Jetscream 32]

LGW,

Dont knock the Astra SPX as you will find it is the most popular air ambulance jet in Europe @ present.

Plenty on the Swiss + other Euro registers - and a bargain price compared with other hardware @ present, a lot of good aircraft for your your money and genuine legs to do the job in question.

:) :) :) <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[joblessflyer]

i flew the falcon 200 for medivac. full efis plus fms. we fly anytime and almost anywhere kathmandu, kunming, former russia, africa, china and more. did not have much of performance penalty. had 2 stretchers with full icu facility installed. seats 8-9 pax inclu patient with full fuel, range about 2400nm. very reliable machine. maintainence a bit high though. enjoy doing medivac and will do it again. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: joblessflyer ]

[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: joblessflyer ]</p>

[PocketRocket]

My company is currently phasing out the Falcon 10 in full medevac configuration. 1 stretcher and 4 seats, easy loading through cabin door. The fastest ambulance plane in Europe.

immediately available

A sad loss for us Falcon-drivers...