British Airways seeks air rage investigator.

[Julian Hensey]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/28/nrage28.xml

[WHBM]

Interesting the view that pax are drinking more because they have to arrive at the airport earlier.

I still feel the rise is connected to the ban on smoking on board (and increasingly in the terminal beforehand). Interesting to do the analysis of what proportion of "ragers" are smokers, which I don't think I have seen published. Even if you go by train where smoking has likewise ended the smokers can step out onto the platform at an intermediate station for a minute or two.

[BEagle]

It is all too easy to put the blame on smokers or drinkers.

Whereas the blame actually lies with those who have made air travel into the wretched business it now is. Whether it is increasingly paranoid rules about what can and cannot be carried in hand luggage, slow and excessively intrusive security checking, the generally poor treatment meted out by BAA airport staff with interest only in profit margins in their shopping malls with aeroplanes - or whether it is the ultra basic treatment received on board from poorly paid overworked cabin staff who are now only provided in numbers which meet minimum legal standards. Extra staff for a better service? Gone are those days.

Even 3 years ago, air travel was less of a general hassle than it is now. So it is hardly surprising that more and more passengers are reaching their breaking point - it dosen't take much for suppressed anger to boil over and frankly I'm amazed that it doesn't happen more often.

[kotakota]

Should have applied for the post while I was still a skipper with BA.
We would discuss this topic ad-nauseam when we did annual SEP / Pax restraint / blah-blah , and every year I would raise the theory that maybe the previously 'well behaved by all accounts /never done anything like this before ' people who got themselves in all sorts of bother by their seemingly bestial behaviour , might be a victim of their doctors narrow-mindedness !!
There are so many medications handed out willy-nilly these days by our gallant but over-stressed doctors , but no-one ever thinks to verify whether these are safe to combine with the thin air on offer in our airborne tubes , along with the odd drink and ever-present stress in modern day life.
However , I was usually addressing a DILLIGAF , ( please PM me if you do not know this wonderful acronym ), who needed to get back to Windsor High Streey ASAP for some more shoe -buying.
What does it take to bang a few heads together , do a modicum of research , and ask passengers at check-in whether they are carrying certain items , packed their own bag etc , but also , 'Have you taken any of these medicines today ? '
Go figure.

[Loose rivets]

I posted a substantial amount of data on the medical forum about the effects of Benzodiazipams and in particular, the kick-back reaction of rage.

Valium is a fantastic drug when used simply as a diagnostic tool, but any notion that you can ‘make life go away' by sustained use, is preposterous. It can cause untold harm.

One of the lesser known side effects, of Valium, is rage. There is a period of calm followed maybe weeks of perfectly normal behavior...until something triggers the patient's underlying anger. It is extreme, and once unleashed is very, very difficult to control.

It is this lying dormant period, that makes planning for such a problem difficult.



Some sleepers use this drug, and they work well, but they affect the patient in much the same way. I haven't got time to search at the moment, but I think Temazipam is one of the better known ones.

[Xeque]

Can anyone tell me how many incidents of Air Rage take place in First or Business Class please apart from the occassional attention seeking VIP?
IMHO it is the airlines themselve that have created the air rage problem in the way they treat passengers - particularly those at the Bread and Butter end of the cabin (i.e. Economy Class)
You cram us into the minimum seat pitch you can get away with and sitting on seats that provide little comfort on long haul flights. You fool around with the air supply in order to save a few pennies. You discourage us from getting up and moving around in order to stretch our cramped muscles. Many airlines force passengers to shut the window blinds even on day flights so we are reduced to sitting in a hot, airless, darkened tube cheek by jowel with our fellow man for hours on end.
Here's an idea! Increase the seat pitch to 40 inches and design a better shaped seat so that people can really relax and get some sleep. And, above all, stop all free beverages. If passengers have to pay for drinks then most of them will drink less. The additional revenue generated can help to pay for the added seat pitch and more comfortable seats.
I agree with what has been said about the time spent hanging around the terminals waiting to board. Passengers are made to arrive far too early now because of the insane security measures that are in place and the drongo's who apply them. The airlines would be better off sorting that problem out and applying pressure to the airport operators to speed up the whole process so that check-in to boarding takes just one hour as it used to.
Many passengers are afraid of flying and apprehensive of the discomfort they know they face particularly on long haul flights. A friend of mine used to get so wound up prior to boarding that she would hit the bar and down as much vodka as she could in whatever time was available between check-in and boarding. Then, mercifully, she would pass out for the duration of the flight.
It's really up to the airlines to sort this problem out and appointing some bloke to write endless reports on what happened after the event rather than applying some real thought to improving the average passengers lot is not going to do that.

[Life's a Beech]

Xeque

Ever thought of paying more for your ticket? There are different seat pitches on different airlines, but you have to pay for the space you use. There is also variation in the treatment of customers, but again you sometimes pay for it. The air supply changes save you (not the airline) money and increases your safety by reducing corrosion.

I have travelled a lot on all sorts of carriers, scheduled (full and minimum service, won't say low-cost as they are often not) and charter, always cattle class, always as cheaply as possible. I am 6'2", so need some space. Yet I don't recognise any of the problems in the aircraft you talk about. I am always as comfortable as can be reasonably expected, have always been encouraged to move around (even well before the panic about DVT). I have never been asked to close the blinds - and I always try to sit at the window and look out. Oh, and I always like my drinks. I have even been rather drunk with a bunch of friends on a flight. None of us caused any trouble at all, despite being all lads in our early 20s.

I have no interest in defending airlines. When I carry passengers they have paid a lot for the individual service we offer, and it is a totally different experience. I speak only as a passenger.

[Few Cloudy]

Air rage (what a nice polite word for thugs to hide behind) is only a symptom of life in general these days.

On the road you can see contorted faces and finger up your ... signs, in shops you will get sworn at and pushed past, you can expect to have your property vandalised. The list goes on and includes (air) travel thuggery.

What is needed is better prevention in the departure area (often aggression and also drunkenness are already evident here) and in flight (be it through extra personnel or training of present staff) rather than an investigator after the event.

Having seen a ruined mirror and vandalised seats on a brand new 737 after landing, I have no illusions about the true character of our fellow citizens, suits, jeans or flip flops.

Non of the bleeding heart reasons quoted on this thread justify use of threatening and aggressive behaivour. A firm hand is required.

FC.

[55yrsSLC_10yearsPPL]

I have, as yet, never lost my marbles in probably more than 8000 hrs as pax but can attest to frustration levels rising exponentially in the last three years. Not because of medication, not because of not smoking but because of being treated more and more as a moronic part of a cattle herd that must be driven through security pens, through overcrowded shopping centres, made to stand for twenty minutes wedged in an over-filled bus to reach a less-than-clean aircraft.
Not in Baku where I presently live, but at LHR,CDG and FRA where I have the misfortune of being processed quite frequently.
I am waiting (in vain of course) for functionality to be returned to terminals which have been turned into a hybrid Bazaar x Caravanserai and playground for would-be security experts.

[Wyler]

I have only ever witnessed one incident of Air Rage and it was alcohol induced. The blame was that of the CC, noone else. These two chaps got on board having come off the rigs. During the 2 hour flight they demanded, and were given, as much booze as they could get down their necks (all inc in ticket price). They got increasingly aggressive culminating in one of them atacking the passenger in front. Nothing was done by the CC, it was left to the rest of us.
Upon landing the CC 'disappeared' down the steps before the passengers.
Not blaming all CC by any means. My beef is with the airline industry that uses copiuous amounts of free alcohol as a selling point. Add to that the lack of space and general stress levels and, funny old thing, you get incidents such as these.

STOP giving alcohol away. If you poke an angry dog, don't whinge when it bites you. As has been said, we are not a very nice species in general.

I agree with the poster that mentioned research. I also believe that some people are just affecdted in a strange way by thin air. It may well be exascerbated by medication. However, let's not get in the way of profits now.

[old,not bold]

I am waiting (in vain of course) for functionality to be returned to terminals which have been turned into a hybrid Bazaar x Caravanserai and playground for would-be security experts.The shopkeepers took over BAA from air transport professionals in the mid-1980's, and developed the business model of an airport as a shopping mall with a "footfall" provided by airlines from that point. It was highly attractive, if you were a shopkeeper; the customers were entrapped in the mall, and growth in their numbers was pretty much guaranteed.

The new managers decreed that an important target was to increase "dwell time", ie the delay betyween checking in and boarding. It made perfect sense to them, of course, and sold more retail space at higher prices.

The assertion that the profits from retail would cross-subsidise operational running costs was never true. They are absorbed in paying for the huge, over-specified architects' follies that airport terminals have become for the core business of running a shopping mall and car park. Any remaining profits from retail go to the bottom line and are distributed among Directors and shareholders.

As a general rule, user charges are highest at airports with the biggest shopping malls. Draw your own conclusions.

Large airport terminals are now cattle markets; grossly overcrowded at peak times, unpleasant, difficult to use, and filled with shops selling useless, over-priced tat, regardless of how beautiful the architecture is. Walking distances are far too long, as aircraft take second place to shops.

Inceased security standards should not have affected terminal operations at all. The airport operators leapt smartly on the bandwagon of insisting that airlines set much longer check-in times, rather than spending heavily on fast security processing.

Longer Check-ins = longer dwell times = more income for shareholders.

Fast Security = lots of expense & shorter dwell times = less money for shareholders.

Guess which Spanish-owned airport operating company will be the first to demand minimum 4-hour check-in times for A380 flights, as an alternative to enlarging passenger channels between the check-in area and the gate?

You are indeed waiting in vain for functionality.

[Few Cloudy]

Sorry folks, none of this excuses threatening or violent behaviour.

Waiting until you get mad and then loosing your temper solves nothing, any more than a junta solves bad government.

If the airport situation is less than tolerable (which it is in many big hubs) campaign for improvements. If booze on board is a bad idea (it is a very bad one actually) campaign to have it stopped.

That all takes time but is at least productive. Thuggery is destructive.

FC.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Few Cloudy

Please don't ever consider becoming a councillor or psychologist because you obviously know nothing about people and how they tick.

Unfortunately not all passengers who travel have had the easy professional life which we enjoy.

There must be thousands of reasons why passengers reach the end of their tether when travelling by air.

I have returned to stand because of passengers with a drink or drugs problem it is true, but a lot of people are SCARED of flying - it's maybe the biggest stress in their lives to travel for the sake of the family.

Others may be returning from burying a relation and not feeling at their best or have just visited a consultant to be told of a terminal illness.

Some are idiots, but a lot are ordinary people in an extra-ordinary environment for what maybe life changing reasons.

A firm hand is not always what is required. Sometimes it's compassion, but an airport is not the place you find much of that.

Kind regards

SITW :)

[Brakes...beer]

Kotakota

So what does DILLIGAF mean? Intrigued, as I saw it written in the grime in the undercarriage bay on a walkround the other day. I can hazard a guess as to the last 3 letters... Gives A F...?

[BEagle]

DILLIGAF = Do I Look Like I Give A F***

The motto of the DfT's security goons.

[Few Cloudy]

Hi Spanner,
I will take your advice and not become a councillor or psychologist - professions which trade precisely on this kind of bleeding heart mentality.
There was little of this behaviour when I started up in flying - but then neither was there in general life either! Since then the number of occurences and the number of councillors has increased in proportion. It is actually known, that over half the passengers are more or less scared to fly but I refuse to believe that people are proportionally more scared of flying than in the bad old days.
As for knowing what makes people tick, you are likely right but I have been confronted with nervous passengers and have found a ride up front (when that was allowed) to be the best psychology. The passenger doesn't follow all you are explaining but sees that someone is up there who seems to know what he is doing and leaves the "office" a lot calmer. Most of this nervousness is caused simply by lack of knowledge and lack of control over ones situation - this is, however nothing new.
There is still no excuse for thuggery - sorry.
(And by the way, I have also had overly nervous passengers offloaded - with compassion - and thugs offloaded - without it).
FC.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Hi Few Cloudy

Yes I agree entirely with the 'therapy' of bringing nervous passengers to the flight deck. It was amazing how some people calmed down almost immediately they understood what was going on. It's a tragedy that there are no longer flight deck visits for all concerned - ah well!

My partner is a typical example of a 'nervous' passenger. She hadn't flown at all before she met me (nows she's terrified - no only joking!). We flew in a C172 last year, since then she's flown both short-haul and long-haul. She hates the take-off interestingly and still closes her eyes until we lift off and are safely in the climb.

Once I explained the noises of the gear and flaps running and the change of engine noise she was fine.

However, as a smoker she finds long-haul a trauma. She has a cigarette at the last minute then sleeps for most of the flight. She can't wait to collect the bags and clear customs to have a fag. We've just returned from the Caribbean and had what even I describe as the worst flight ever. Night flight, screaming children nearly all of the flight. As she said with no cigarettes and the stress of a crying child she felt like throttling someone when she got off the flight.

It is stressful for a lot of passengers which, as a non-smoker, I didn't fully appreciate before I met my present partner.

Naturally, I agree that there can be no excuse for unruly and aggressive behaviour on flights. But it would be interestingly to know if stress levels have increased since the 'old days'.

As for councillors and psychologists, I have to share your view that their advice and attitude isn't always the best. However, the point is that some understanding is required. There seems to be a lot of effort being put into coping with the effects of air rage, but not much evidence of identifying and dealing with the cause.

Kind regards

SITW :)

PS: Worst airport for stress and smoking? Kingston Jamaica. Five hour transit delay and no smoking anywhere! We were allowed to go landside, but then tried to get back for our flight. Hmmm... Even I was pulling my hair out by the time we got to Montego Bay.

[ZFT]

Whilst it is undoubtedly true that European air travel has become a truly awful experience with disruptive pax, until ‘punishment fits the crime’, nothing will change.

Living where I do let me assure you that free booze has nothing to do with it. Here booze is so cheap that all our livers should be well and truly pickled. However, whilst the odd tourist does step out of line, because the M.I.B. have both the power and the ability to kick the living daylights out of anyone who steps out of line, alcohol induced problems are virtually non-existent.

Virtually the whole of Asia is like this. If people won’t respect either other people or the rules/law, then let the authorities sort it out as they deem fit.

As to medications and cigarettes. Asia is so over medicated it’s a joke and the same smoking restrictions apply here so that really shouldn’t be a factor.

Jail the low life, ban them from passenger aircraft for life, take away their passports whatever but punish them and the problem is eradicated.

Of course it does help that we also experience a far better product here but maybe that is because the fare paying pax behave themselves whilst downing the booze!!