Emirates 2007 Profit Share .

[OVERCHINA]

Any word yet ? Anyone ?

[ruserious]

Any word yet ? Anyone ?
No one (from the plebeians) knows until the actual announcement, everything up until then is a WAG (wild assed guess).
Mine is 5 weeks, based on the assumption this is about the minimum they can get away without having to give all employees a decent pay rise. It has very little to do with the profit, or any share.

[LHR Rain]

10-12 weeks. We earned it and we deserve it. Bank on it.

[Vorsicht]

YoDawg, you forgot about factoring, so you will only credit for half of the time you spend working for the company. Unfortunately for new joiners they will need to do 2 years to qualify. So the 5 weeks will become 2.5 (rounded down of course).

so 2 weeks it is.

V

[cerbus]

Let us not sell ourselves short. Emirates passed the level in December and we are owed our money.

[Craic Ore]

3.5 billion AED Profit for the group versus a target of 3.25 mil I do believe. So boys (and girls), we're looking at about 3-4 weeks.
:ugh:

[jdoe]

Just announced......4.5 weeks

[takoonskoop]

Check this out. Should be some Dhs for us:}

http://www2.dfm.ae/documents/news%20files/d58363d9-0348-44cd-87f4-f64a71d7cb94.pdf

[Trashed Aviator]

Looks like 3 weeks, no more pay rises. And cancellation of utilities allowance for new joiners. Company accommodation is a requirement.

[A345]

just got the word that it is 4 1/2 weeks.. can someone pls verify???

[Vorsicht]

4.5 confirmed on portal.

Company profits increased 24% on revenue increase of 28%. Billion dollars profit, 109million dollar dividend for owners. Enjoy your 4.5 weeks.

[bigjet77]

I'm sorry, am I missing the point. We increased our profit by 24% and decreased our profit share by half a week from last year. How does that work?? To give all pilots 9 weeks would only have cost them only 27 million dollars. Small change from 109 million me thinks. Might not encourage the pilot community to move to Dubai, and we need 500+ next year.

[airbus757]

Still not seeing 4.5 on the portal?

[Oblaaspop]

Indeed, 4.5 weeks.:ugh:
I was actually there and there was no mention of the crap Trashed Aviator spouted (put a sock in it mate, moral is low enough as it is without that sort nonsense!).
For those of you looking for basings, the question was put to TC by one of our Capts. Basically we were told in no uncertain terms that it will NEVER happen! So get your head around it, its Dubai or nothing!
So, any sweepstakes on how many will resign in the next couple of weeks? I'm going for a minimum of 100......
Well, at least the food was good! (glad I filled my Tupperware boxes up now!)
D'oh!!!!!!

[Cyberbird]

... if it's really as bad as 4 1/2 weeks ONLY, that's like a slap in the face !

DISGUSTING from this hillarious beancounters !:ugh:

... that way, we will have the upcoming year AGAIN 10 % -ish resignings like in 2006/07 - including mine - i just have enough froim those greedy wonnabe managers:uhoh: !!!

[ruserious]

Well, my prediction was pretty close, everything up until then is a WAG (wild assed guess). Mine is 5 weeks, based on the assumption this is about the minimum they can get away without having to give all employees a decent pay rise
but I guess they had to do a little optimisation to reduce the pay out further.

[fatbus]

Quick ? Did SQ actually get 6 months and do they get a 13th month on top of that. Is their bonus the same for all employees?

I'll take the 4.5 but it is a slap in the face

[six7driver]

warlock 2000, ya whatever you aren't ungreatful, sure. But please, please spare us the bleeding heart cr#p "Heart goes out to station staff basded outside Dubai who now have to give the tax man his share of their 4½ weeks" if you really feel so strongly for them why don't you take up a collection, start with your profit share, and see how many of your fellow EK ppruners follow suite. :rolleyes: I know, I know "save it!" cause it's only your opinion that counts.....:ugh:

A slap in the face hey fat bus.... I'm sorry mate but I just don't feel your pain, but as ppruners you've earned your motto

"we're not happy until you're not happy"!!!!:}

[kingoftheslipstream]

Since the bottom line increased by 24% group wide, and the Gov't of DXB was given 9% more than last year... (109 Mil, up from 100 Mil last year)...
Why did the workforce receive less than we received last year?:confused:
I am so sad that they think we are so stupid that we don't remember...
I have to say I am disappointed:(

[Fix Info]

Of course they don't think we're stupid. They know that we're smart people. They also know that we're suckers. They simply pay out as little as possible to keep enough guys not leaving. If they pay really well it's a guaranteed drain from their pockets; if they pay badly then possibly guys will leave, and possibly training/recruitment costs will go up. It's a matter of simply walking the line, and hope that the balance is in their favor.

They also rely on the fact that many EK-pilots have made a bundle on real estate, and unless there's a major market correction lots of guys are simply sitting at the sideline laughing about the money they made outside EK. Who cares about a few measly thousand dhs, when there's millions to be made in Dubai bricks and mortar!!! If/when there's a market correction, I expect a large number of pilots taking their profits and resign.

One thing we mustn't forget is that the profit share is paid to ALL employees. Since the unhappiness mostly concern pilots, there's no good reason to give away money to folks that don't require them in order to remain onboard. That's basic management/accounting. Something EK have proven to be masters of through the years.

Yes, I'm rightfully unhappy about the pathetic influx to my bank account. However, all the way back to Roman times, the only true winners have always been management, and I expect it will all remain so.

One question to all of us. Singapore pilots are busting with gold each and every profit share session. How come we're not all leaving to fly for SQ instead? There must be some reason.

On a final note. Now with the factoring, it's possible to fly 150 hours or so. That's some serious overtime pay. I think they're keeping some of the profits in their pockets so they can pay us when we're averaging 149.9 hours on the Airbus fleet. If you fly 150 hours, that's a 125% pay rise. The question is if you're laughing all the way to the bank, or if the bank man must come to your house because your close to comatose of fatique, and not safe to drive a car on the Dubai roads. We're so lucky that they pick us up at home, or it would all be really unsafe... We're also getting a 10% pay increase when they push the absolute flying limits from 900hrs/year to 1000hrs/year.

[new tomcat]

I feel sorry for you pilots at Emirates. A Billion dollars in profits and only 4 weeks bonus. That is crap. My US airline is talking about a yearly profit for the first time in years and the ball park bonus for a captain is hopefully going to be about $20,000. We have many more employees than Emirates does and our management is on the road to employee satisfaction so that explains the differnce. But it is a pretty poor showing by Emirates management.

[atiuta]

Yawn....for you 1st time bonus gathers, we go through this one every year.

Basic monthly salary x 12

Divide it by 52

Multiply it by 4.5

= Your Bonus

Been listening to too many cabin crew stories my friend.

[giovane]

I understand Singapore Airlines are getting 6 months bonus plus the 13th paycheck and for this year as well, an extra month on top because the are 60 years old !!

Happy Birthday !!

:confused:

[BigGeordie]

Any word on the Utilities Allowance for those who aren't keen on Silicon Oasis?

[Fix Info]

There you obviously have one of the reasons the sun actually sets on the UK nowadays. If it takes 12 years to NOT figure out such a simple math problem... I know I shouldn't be surprised, but why is this a question that comes up every year? There's always been 52 weeks in a year, so x number of weeks, is just exactly that. 1/52 of your yearly salary, times the number of bonus weeks.

My arithmatic on the overtime issue might be warped, but it's nevertheless true. I did 125 hours fully legal on reserve without factoring, and I know it's possible to do 150 with factoring. I was a zombie at the end, and it took me two months to recover. I will surely go SK halfway to my 150, but I think the company is expecting some guys to actually do it.

Money talks, and b.......t walks. Unfortunately, in some cases it's sleepwalking.

[Fix Info]

I kinda wonder about something. Each year I hear about SQ forking out some serious bucks. Why doesn't everybody leave and go to SQ? There must be some reason for it. We've got some guys who left SQ for EK, and none of the seem to want to go back. Why?

[L1011]

No one is joining SQ bcos SQ is not hiring. Simple isn't it.

If they were I (for one) would be gone. SQ's 345 operation is the sweetest job in aviation right now.

But they have enough pilots on local terms now - no need for expats any more.:{

[ruserious]

If they were I (for one) would be gone. SQ's 345 operation is the sweetest job in aviation right now
And to quote Larry, I would pack your :mad: suitcase and drive you to the :mad: airport :O :O

[L1011]

Errr - no thanks, I'll take a taxi.
Larry had terrible halitosis - must be an Irish thing. Don't want to find out about yourself, the cyber-you is repulsive enough:}

[MachD]

Arrived bach in DXB the other night off a local flight (yet again this month) with no extra fuel planned by the company. About number 15 in the queue. So ffter 2 holding patterns and some vectoring and committing to destination, landed with going on 100 hours projected for the month and less than diversion fuel.... (Not a problem but doesn't help the stress or fatigue).

I reckon I'll start putting an extra 4 1/2 tons on just to ease the pain now.....

[six7driver]

Warlock 2000, I don't take instruction from people of your ilk, whose attitude is belligerent and predictable. "Save it!" you demand from anyone who'll call you on your rant of self pity. The truth hurts eh?

ONE day when the pool in dry you might get an interview.

"pool in dry" I guess you need the bigger profit share to pay for spelling lessons, and you type slowly and without accuracy, a real talent to have for flying a FMS cockpit aircraft. Nonetheless, ouch that hurt:{ ...I guess you mean to say I'm a bad pilot...I'm not going to sleep tonight because I know I'll never fly for EK, wow what a loss... :rolleyes: I'll never meet disgruntled ingrates like you... I guess I'll just have to live with that. Enjoy the sand.:ok:

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Ive been doing a little maths revision myself. And it doesnt add up!!

Profit 2006/7 3.5 billion AED that is 3500,000000 0r 3500 million AED.

Target 3.25 billion AED OR 3250,000000 OR 3250 million AED.

That leaves 250,000000AED OR 250 million AED for profit share!!

It was announced that the target was reached in DEC. That leaves 3 months to generate 250 million AED profit!!

Lets look at EK performance. EK profit announced 3.25 billion AED Profit target over 9 months equates to the company making on avererage 360 million AED profit every month. OR 1080 million AED for 3 months. BUT it must have been very very quiet from DEC to MARCH because the business really slumped to a measly 83 million AED profit per month!!:D

I dont know about any of you but all my flights were FULL FULL FULL!!

So what happened to the other 830 million AED profit that was probably generated for the 3 months leading to March.

OK OWNERS DIVIDENDS equates to 106 million USD app 390 million AED still leaving 440million AED. Where has this money gone:ooh: Divided amongst three or four people me thinks!!

Any way!!

What can you do :ugh:

Just thought this needed to be posted!!

[vbrules]

There are three points I would like to make.
1. I cannot find the reference but recall profit share is paid as 2 weeks upon reaching the profit target and 25% of the excess (profit-profit target) distributed amongst employees.
2. Considering point 1 it isnt a profit share it is a bonus at the whim of the owners.
3. This is not the appropriate forum to be discussing it; it should be the Emirates private forum. No wonder everyone else thinks we are a bunch of whining debuttantes.
Dry your eyes princesses and get on with it!

[BIKKERDENNAH]

VB

25 percent of 250 million AED is a LOT LOT LOT different than 25 percent 0f 1080 million AED!! in fact 400 percent different.

And why should we air it in a private forum!!

So where did it go!!:zzz:

[Fix Info]

Interestingly enough on the Cabin Crew portal it says that we're getting 4.5 weeks of "profit share bonus". That made me chuckle a bit. Maybe that's why we're getting so little!?! It's a bonus system based on the profit share amount. We were never supposed to get the whole cake, just part of a part of a part.

The profit share of this company have never added up. I had from VERY good sources a few years ago that the profits equaled 16 weeks of payout. When it was later announced, we got 11 weeks. The rest dissapeared into somebody's pocket. It's the same every year. Since we have no idea how much individual EK employees make, we have no way of checking the math, and they know that.

Besides, they don't really care. They just want to create a few smiles for the press, and pay enough so that the whole company doesn't just walk out the door.

On another note, I'm impressed by the level of positive thinking I've seen among some pilots. I've heard guys say that we'll maybe get compensated by EK raising our pay... Now it's my turn to wonder what drugs they're on. The pay rise was already announced a few months ago in order to hopefully stem som of the flood of pilot resignations, and to be able to post the new pay scale on the web for recruitment... We're getting diddly sqwat on top of that. If you want a "pay rise" you just go out there and put 150 long ones on the clock, and there's your pay rise. You can use the extra money in the grave when you pack it in at 60.0005 years of age.

[six7driver]

Warlock 2000 you really are funny, a person who complains about the patronzing attitudes of his managment, then patronizes those who don't share his opinion.
- you were right, had to look up the word "idiom" with my neighbor since only two people can be blessed with the likes of your brain power - :rolleyes:
Your idiom which you also got wrong is actually expressed as "not being able to see the forest for the trees" but excusing your hurried attempt at an idiom, I'll take it you meant to refer to the seeing the big picture, something you don't have very clear. Here I would say to you, take your own advice However bad things might seem to you at EK, they are far better than 90% of the world's airlines.
So me tell how you show your compassion for your fellow workers? by complaining about how didn't get a big enough profit share cheque? Oh please....
Now come on, I know being the greatful person you are, you'll say one nice thing about EK as a company, come on, you can do it...say it...say it....awww looks like you won't, what a surprise. I know, I know SAVE IT!!:ok:

[Marooned]

ie: Profit Share being a scam...

[TangoUniform]

"Sorry, we are not able to improve the profit share this year, we had an extraordianry expense of a pilot pay raise"





Emirates posts record full-year profit, reveals interest in more A380s

Friday April 27, 2007
Emirates' star continues to rise, as evidenced by the record AED3.46 billion ($941.8 million) profit the parent company reported for the fiscal year ended March 31, representing a 23.5% increase over the prior year's profit of AED2.8 billion and based largely on the AED3.1 billion in net earnings contributed by the airline.
Emirates Group also includes Dnata and subsidiary companies. "For the third year running, pressure from fuel costs has softened our profits, while the delay on our A380 aircraft deliveries has meant that we have had to revisit our expansion plans," Chairman and CEO Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum said. "In spite of these factors, the Group has continued to forge ahead. . .expanding our operations into new markets and adding capacity to existing markets offering the highest returns, innovating to attract and retain premium customers and keeping a close watch on unit costs."
Group revenue rose 28.4% to AED31.13 billion against a 29.3% lift in expenses to AED27.61 billion. Operating income increased 23.5% to AED3.63 billion. Emirates Airline's profit, up 25.1% from the previous fiscal year's AED2.48 billion, highlighted a period during which operating profit rose 25.9% to AED3.34 billion on a 29.5% gain in revenue to AED29.84 billion and a 30.2% increase in costs to AED26.68 billion. Its operating margin was down 0.3 point to 11.4%.
EK flew 77.95 billion RPKs during the 12 months, up 25.2% from the prior year. Capacity climbed 24.8% to 102.34 billion ASKs and load factor was up 0.3 point to 76.2%. It added 11 aircraft and six destinations and its fleet at year end numbered 102, including six 747 freighters on wet-lease. Overall yield increased 6.5% to AED2.16 and passenger yield rose 5.8%. Cost per ATK was up 6% to AED1.29.
At the carrier's briefing in Dubai yesterday, Al-Maktoum said negotiations with Airbus concerning A380 compensation should be completed next week and EK will be buying more of the type in the future. "We are talking with Airbus about ordering an additional small number of A380s. Maybe we will make an announcement this year," he told ATWOnline, adding that he is confident the first A380 will be delivered in August 2008.
President Tim Clark told this website that the airline "easily could absorb" 5-15 more A380s, while Executive Vice Chairman Maurice Flanagan said the aircraft also would work well in a low-cost business model, which he said the company is considering "a little bit."
Clark expressed excitement about the A350 XWB. Emirates will be looking to replace around 50 aircraft by 2013, including some A330-200s, A340-300s, 777-200s and 777-300s. He said Airbus has added to the A350 "all the things we have asked for," and that the airline hopes to present its choice between the 787 and A350 to Al-Maktoum this summer. It is looking to order 60-100 aircraft and operate a fleet of 161 planes by 2010.

by Kurt Hofmann and Brian Straus

[disconnected]

If I recall Accomodation Allowance increments are usually announced with the Profit Share .

Is this correct?

Does anyone know if any comment was made on Accomodation Allowances and if not, was there any indication of when this might be announced?

Latest rumour (apparently from high up the food chain) is that because there has been no announcement there is to be no increment.

I suppose because good contracts were negotiated a few years back on Silicon Oasis and there are still many houses left to fill there is no need to increase the Accomodation Allowance. Anyone who moved out a few years back can sink or swim and be replaced with a cheaper pilot with cheaper accomodation. Besides if all pilots ultimately wind up at Silicon Oasis (soon to be named Pilot City!) it makes logistics easier.

Neat solution to a number of issues really....

[mini cooper]

I thought the RUMOUR was that soon if you come to EK you won't have the choice of company accomodation or utilities. It's EK accom no negotiation!! If you want to move out it will be up to you to pay for it. Notwithstanding those already on utilities will be given the choice of moving back into company accomodation before the utilities dry up................................it is a RUMOUR NETWORK but in this case not such an agreeable rumour!!!!

[BigGeordie]

Can't see that happening somehow. It must be cheaper to pay the utilities than the cost of a villa, water and electricity, even if it is at Silicon Oasis.

[Ghostflyer]

The Utilities announcement has never been made with the profit share. The allowances review is up in July, so a while to wait yet.

As to company accom vs utils. I think they would prefer to get everyone on utils rather than the otherway around. The new 164s rent is 180k so even allowing a healthy discount for bulk, it would work out cheaper to the company to kick everyone out, pay the utils allowance and get rid of the accommodation department.

[Albert of Arabia]

A Utilities allowance increase was included in the Group Results meeting of 2005

[White Knight]

Ghost - that would no doubt backfire on the company 'cos all the pilots will be running around every few months trying to find somewhere to live - so too stressed (as some are apt to be) to fly. No, the writings on the wall for all EK villas except for the big Silicon implant job:{

[Ghostflyer]

Oh well they had better build some more villas either that or share them out, 3 pilots to a villa.

[Thylakoid]

Vbrules, the reference is in Groupworld, Human Resources tab. It is all there. There are several reasons why they wouldn't pay the share, stuff like that:)

[disconnected]

I have heard via Cabin Crew that they have had an approx 10% increase on accommodation allowance. Apparently they were informed by email.

Any truth in this? The person who told me this was certain but of coure its possible they have got their wires crossed. Other sources however made the same claim.

Anyway the next question is: Has anyone got anything definitive on the accommodation allowance for flight deck?

[Gregale]

Just heard another rumour lately... Instead of increasing utilities allowance, EK will give you ownership of the villa/apartment (EK owned ones of course) you're staying in if you've been employed or after you've been with the company for 10 years. Fantasilandia perhaps? :suspect: :sad:

[Gulf News]

The guy that washes TCAS's car told me that that central services had ordered too many Audis so they would be giving them away to any flightcrew who do 1200hrs this year.:rolleyes:

[BigGeordie]

Disconnected, I've heard the same thing from the Cabin Crew. Still nothing about the pilots though. As the utilities allowance is supposed to cover rent and DEWA, and everybody's rent has gone up by about the same percentage over the last few years, I don't see how they could give the pilots less than 10%. Then again, this is Emirates.....

[L1011]

SIA has announced its results. A largely similar fleet size (100 aircraft - all widebody) and routes that overlap to a great extent.
Operating profit of S$ 1.3 Billion (900M US$) which results in a profit share of SIX months (25 weeks by EK math I reckon) per employee.:)
That's right folks - about 6 times what we got! Boy would that put a dent in the mortgage.

[Watchdog]

WOW! I'm counting the days till SQ recruit again! :eek:

[Thylakoid]

Yeah, that is amazing. To leave us even more pissed off is what I read in the news yesterday, about EK signing a couple of millions dirhams contract with some UK company that will test us for drugs and booze!!!
So, money and business for the Brits; less bonus for the employees:*

[BYMONEK]

On the subject of bonus. M&S staff in Dubai just got 4 months with senior managers getting 6. Now THAT'S a bonus! :eek:

[Fix Info]

The new 164 rent is actually 210-220 depending on location, and they're selling like hot cakes. They're not for EK-staff, simply rented to anybody with a hefty pay check. The original 164 went for 85 on a 10 year lease, which should be finished in 2010. Supposedly with new rules only management staff get old 164. A good friend was turned down for this reason, but I know of at least one senior f/o who recently relocated to 164 when the old resident moved to silicon. That simply means the same as always: Don't believe anything you hear, because it'll change next week. Many pilots think all 164 and 84 residents will get relocated when the lease runs out, but I don't see why. At that time the lease will have to be re-negotiated obviously, but the new cost must be compared against the cost of any other accomodation in Dubai. They can always kick everybody out, and force people to take allowance. However, they can't afford that since droves of pilots will resign when they're on the street, and allowance won't cover living expenses. Somebody must staff the airplanes. Sure, the bean counters will vote yes, because they're only short-term bottom line guys, but in then end it's simply not possible. A reasonable rumour is that they're building another 900 villas at silicon, in addition to some high rises. They'll be able to house all villa pilots, and apt pilots in one area by 2011. Unfortunate but highly possible. The only positive is that if you have a car accident in the compound, you can most likely communicate in English with the other driver...

[fatbus]

our purser, on my last flt, said she got 2 dhs hour and 10% housing

[bboo]

CC pay rises:

approx. 4% on basic salary
approx. 2dhs on flying pay
Effective 1st May

12% increase to the Utilities allowance
10% increase to the Transport allowance
40dhs for Telephone allowance
Effective 1st July

Issued by the VPCC, 1st May 2007