Gripens Grounded after Undemanded Ejection

[ORAC]

DefenseNews: Gripen Grounded Pending Crash Investigation (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2708819&C=europe)

The crash of a JAS Gripen fighter in northern Sweden has resulted in the grounding of C and D versions of the aircraft by the Swedish, Czech and Hungarian air forces pending a full investigation by the Swedish Accident Investigation Board (SAIB).

The fighter, from the Swedish Air Force’s Airwing F21 unit at Lule, was taking part in air exercises when it crashed at the Vidsel airfield after the pilot ejected and landed safely by parachute. However, preliminary findings by SAIB indicate that the pilot did not initiate emergency ejection. SAIB’s initial inquiry will seek to determine if a possible malfunction triggered ejection or if the pilot touched the ejection trigger by mistake.

The Gripen’s crash-proof black-box memory units have been recovered intact. Saab, the fighter’s manufacturer, is cooperating with SAIB in the inquiry.A SAIB spokesman said that the “core reason for the crash” was not immediately clear.

According to SAIB, the Gripen was heading for the Vidsel air base, located west of Lule and inside the Arctic Circle, when it crashed at 3:42 p.m.

The Gripen Type-C is a NATO-compatible version of Gripen with extended armament and electronics capabilities, while the Type-D is a two-seat version of the C variant.

The April 19 incident brings to five the number of Gripens that have crashed since test flights began in the late 1980s, including two crashes prior to delivery to the Swedish Air Force.

• Feb. 2, 1989: The first Gripen prototype crashed on its sixth flight when landing at Linköping air base. A SAIB inquiry found that the cause was pilot-induced oscillation.

• Aug. 8, 1993: A crash on the central Stockholm island of Longholmen also was attributed to pilot-induced oscillation.

• Sept. 20, 1999: A Gripen from Airwing F7, based at Sotenäs, crashed into Lake Vänern during a “dog-fight” exercise. The aircraft abruptly changed course after passing through the wake vortex of the other dog fight plane. The pilot ejected and landed safely by parachute.

• June 1, 2005: A Gripen from Airwing F17, based at Kallinge air base, malfunctioned, forcing the pilot to eject. A SAIBinquiry is still ongoing. The pilot’s report claimed the aircraft’s computer “refused to obey commands.”

[Violet Club]

Five crashes in 20 years (more or less) sounds remarkably good to me...with all four pilots alive and well.

Four, because Lars Radestrom dropped the first two jets. To loose one is unfortunate...

And Lulea, not Lule.

VC

(No mooses were harmed in the crashing of this aeroplane)

[Northern Circuit]

Wedgy wasn't having another jolly was he?

[Founder]

Today according to the Swedish media the JAS 39 Gripen crash in Northern Sweden earlier this week was caused by the G-Suit somehow caused the ejection handle to eject the pilot. The suit somehow actuated the ejection handle causing the ejection...

I've worked for a year with the JAS 39 Gripen and the Martin Baker seat and I cant understand how that would be possible?

[Gainesy]

What part of a g-suit would be over your goolies?:confused:

[Founder]

clarify "goolies" =)

The ejection seat handle on the Gripen is between your legs and you pull it upwards to eject...

[228 OCU]

Balls, Nuts, or if you like, Testicles!




If in doubt BANG OUT!

[Piggies]

The crash of a JAS Gripen fighter in northern Sweden has resulted in the grounding of C and D versions of the aircraft by the Swedish, Czech and Hungarian air forces pending a full investigation by the Swedish Accident Investigation Board (SAIB).

The fighter, from the Swedish Air Force’s Airwing F21 unit at Lule, was taking part in air exercises when it crashed at the Vidsel airfield after the pilot ejected and landed safely by parachute. However, preliminary findings by SAIB indicate that the pilot did not initiate emergency ejection. SAIB’s initial inquiry will seek to determine if a possible malfunction triggered ejection or if the pilot touched the ejection trigger by mistake.

Emergency ejection?

Is there any other kind?

[GreenKnight121]

Yes, a "routine' ejection is a planned one... like with the various ejection test-bed aircraft designed for ejections to be performed in-flight with the aircraft flown to a safe landing by either a pilot in another cockpit or by remote control.

Another example would be if the pilot decided to deliberately crash a properly functioning aircraft for a specific reason, and did not wish to go with it, so he pre-plans when and where he will eject.

[threeputt]

Another example would be if the pilot decided to deliberately crash a properly functioning aircraft for a specific reason, and did not wish to go with it, so he pre-plans when and where he will eject.


This is clearly what AOC 1 Gp had in mind at his recent, controversial, briefing to the CQWI course!:ok:

3P

[Piggies]

Another example would be if the pilot decided to deliberately crash a properly functioning aircraft for a specific reason, and did not wish to go with it, so he pre-plans when and where he will eject.

There's no answer to that...:confused:

[Say Again, Over!]

so he pre-plans when and where he will eject


Isn't planning pre by definition? Therefore pre-planning is redundant... :}

:ouch:

[GreenKnight121]

Pre-plan: to come up with your plan before the events start (before take-off).

Interim plan: a plan developed after the event begins (after take-off).

Last-minute plan: a plan developed just before it has to be implemented (just before the go/no-go point).

No-plan: instinctive/trained reaction to an event that catches you by surprise (emergency action).

[Green Flash]

Just Swedes seem to be getting spat out by the Nordic Wonder Machine, eh? Either the Czechs and the Magyars have turned the system off or there may be a trend here .....

[steamchicken]

Here's the story (http://www.thelocal.se/7108/20070425/).

[BOAC]

Someone has to say it...

a case of inflation causing premature ejection?:)

[c-bert]

"It just swelled up and came off in my hand boss..."

[Mr_B]

I've just seen this post,

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/24.73.html#subj9.2

Little chance of the inflation of a G-suit, or G-force alone, causing
unintentional operation in that case. (I don't know if this applied to
specifically to the Gripen.)

With aerodynamically unstable aircraft, the situation is different. If the
FCS goes down, the aircraft might break up within half a second or so,
depending on the airspeed and attitude, and I was given to understand that
ejection would be automatic, i.e., initiated without manual input from the
pilot.Is it true that the ejector seat fire if the system thinks the air craft is a lost cause?

[Double Zero]

" is it true that ejection seats fire if it's decided the aircraft is a lost cause ? "

Just think of the money & time that could have been saved if that system was available earlier - a mod' programme might enable pre-dating the actual build of the lost cause -

Insert aircraft of one's choice here-... :E

[Green Flash]

Presume they are all flying again as the Hungarians brought one to EGVA (static)

[Double Zero]

Static display eh ? ...

Martin Baker have had something to think about, while I realise the undemanded ejection incident was a little while ago.

Anyone remember Taylor Scott's accident, in a Harrier GR5 ?

The seat, The Mk12 being then a new model, didn't fire undemanded, but the chute drogue rocket did, and he was dragged to his death.

I was photographer on the BOI and knew a whitewash when I saw it...

His widow eventually won after 5 years of bitter fighting against the top teams of lawyers ranged by BAe against her one.

The best seats in the world - apparently the Russian jobs.

[Green Flash]

00

I presume it flew then? I was in a large windowless shed for various periods of time so I must have missed it.

[Double Zero]

Green Flash

Not sure what you're getting at - the particular aircraft I mentioned, the second production GR5 ZD 325, flew on without its pilot beore running out of fuel & crashing in the Irish Sea - yes it flew but with a tragic outcome.

Icarus, according to legend, ' at least flew ' but he was let down unfortunately by his design team & engineering, rather than Safety Equipment dept which he hadn't thought to ask.

That the Gripen should suffer undemanded ejection - if it's by G-suit that's a pretty poor comment on design & flight testing - is interesting, as I've already seen one innocent & highly skilled person killed by a faulty seat...

[Green Flash]

00

Sorry, I think we're cross-threaded here. I assumed the Grip was cleared flying again as it was at RIAT. I assumed static but took your post to mean it actually flew.:confused:

[M609]

The SWAF Gripens (C/D) flew again prior to early June , but with a +3G restriction.

They participated with C and Ds in the annual RNoAF "Northern wind" COMAO exercise flying from Bardufoss. (With the RNoAF F-16s flying from Banak)

http://www.f17.mil.se/images/local/luftflyg640.jpg

http://www.f17.mil.se/images/local/staendeplan640.jpg

[Green Flash]

I like the second Grip pic!:ok: (on the road strip). In fact, just set it as my desktop! Nice one.

[M609]

Report on the Vidsel uncommanded ejection is out today. Swedish only naturally

http://www.havkom.se/virtupload/news/rm2008_01.pdf

The conclusion summary:

3.2 Orsaker
Olyckan orsakades av brister i kvalitetssäkringen av flygsäkerhetsprocesserna
inom och mellan Saab, Försvarets Materielverk och Försvarsmakten.
Dessa brister resulterade i att flygplanets räddningssystem, efter upprepade
höga G-belastningar, aktiverades på grund av utskjutningshandtagets form,
ytfriktion och placering samt utskjutningsmekanismens låga hållkrafter.


Rough translation.

The accident was caused by flaws in the quality control of the flight safety processes within and between Saab, defense Material Command and the Armed Forces. These flaws resulted in the activation of the aircrafts rescue system (seat), after repeated high g-loads, due to the activation handle design, surface friction and placement, as well as the handles low breaking force



One other interesting fact in the report, is that when they put the seat from the aircraft in the centrifuge at Linköping, 4 different pilots simulated the accident g-loads, and all 4 times the seat initiated ejection.

[Double Zero]

Sounds like that centrifuge test ought to be standard on all fast jet set-ups pronto !

G-suits seem to be having a bad press lately - I do seem to recall that in the aft cockpits of Harrier T2/4 etc there was a bit of a worry about control restriction of the column laterally, though that may have been a certain small batch of aircraft.

I spent a lot of time clambering about in various Hawk cockpits, which always seemed quite roomy - but when I came to get a ride ( aft cockpit, with G-suit ) I was surprised how cramped it suddenly was - I was 5'9 10.5 stone at the time.

We only pulled up to 4.5 G - I never felt like blacking out or anything ( but then I wasn't driving ) but the suit was bloody uncomfortable across the midfriff !

Of course the various super-duper jets are getting their own G-suits, which may well alleviate the problem for those aircraft at least.

With respect to current Western fighters, how much time is REALLY spent at very high G ? - And I do know about the acclimitisation John Farley mentioned earlier being so important.

I would guess the current suits are not so popular right now, thing is they're just such a good pose to resist !

[Finger Poking]

And perish the thought that this would ever be possible on the Typhoon Seat?

I mean, if anything like this ever happenend (or Almost Happened!), they might have to re-arraange the straps around the QRB to assist it being held away from the Ejection Handle..... So as not to interfere with......


Or did this happen about 18 months ago................................