Goldair (beautiful L45s) - What's its status now? [Archive]

LAVDUMPER

27th Oct 2001, 00:51

Yes, I know that Goldair seems to be a recurring topic on this forum - sorry to bring it up again...

I just saw a picture of a GORGEOUS Goldair Lear 45 down in Faro. The pilots LOOKED happy enough in the somewhat blurred picture. Is that a true statement? Are Goldair pilots happy flying those L45 hotrods?

I'd love to be in the sharp-end of one of those Lear 45s! What's Goldair's current status - is charter business picking up for them?

P.S. If you are a Goldair Lear 45 pilot I have one question for you: how FAR afield have you flown the Lear 45 on a mission - Eastern Europe, Middle East, North Africa...? I am envious!!!!!

Cheers

LAVDUMPER

27th Oct 2001, 00:56

Forgot to ask this question:

Does Goldair have a website?

I remember seeing it once but I forgot the address. I tried to look it up on Yahoo but couldn't find anything.

Goldair's website address would be appreciated in addition to above questions...

Cheers

2Donkeys

27th Oct 2001, 12:57

Try
http://www.goldairint.co.uk/

The Groover

27th Oct 2001, 14:13

Hey Lavdumper
You on some kind of GoldAir appreciation society kick ?

There are other European operators of Learjet 45's you know, when we get our first one (Gama) in a few weeks time, we will be delighted to tell you all about it !

Don't most pilots look reasonably happy when they are standing in front of a brand new piece of kit with a nightstop at Quinta de Lago to look forward too ??????????????????

What a bizarre statement !!

Order of the Brown nose for you I fear old chap !

TG

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

lisajking

28th Oct 2001, 15:35

As a broker the 45 is chartering extremely well - Went to the Goldair hangar the other day and Lear number 3 was being dispatched for its third job of the day. Lear number one was on its 600 hour check after only being delivered in April last year I think!

They do look a pretty mean aircraft - I know they went down to Kingston Jamaica the other day with no reported problems. That job Probably worth a few quid!

flybhx

28th Oct 2001, 15:39

Groover,

How many 45's are GAMA having seems to be getting a popular bird in the UK

LRdriver

28th Oct 2001, 16:26

What :eek:
a lear45 a hotrod??
we have the 45 engines as an apu on our 60
:D :D

(seriously though, the 45 is proving popular in our fleet,OY-reg)

Girl From Mars

28th Oct 2001, 17:06

The 1 who knows, thanks for brightening up my Sunday !!
From a brokering point of view no wonder you are happy, bet you don't pass the rock bottom prices that GoldAir give you......you must be making a hell of a lot more than just a little something for mum !!
Still, can they substain these prices when it looks as if they are not going to force their competitors to reduce theirs at all, or for that matter put them out of business.
Is it true that they lost £7million last year ??
And for your info, the Kingston trip was a nightmare from start to finish.....the worst cock up was ops calculating an ambulance extension duty of around 15 hours, then assuming that you could take rest equivelent to that duty then do another ambulance extension after 15 hours rest...........ooops you need 48 hrs between ambulance extensions, the aircraft also went tec but hey ho, thats what you deserve if you get rid of all your decent ops staff and replace them with inexperience................me bitter, not at all !!

LAVDUMPER

29th Oct 2001, 19:57

Interesting responses - sounds like Goldair L45s are proving popular. I have flown in a L45 and I found it quite comfortable - wish I could have sat up in the sharp end!!!!

But how do the pilots enjoy flying the L45?

Any Goldair pilots out there to share stories with envious wannabe L45 drivers like myself (not looking for employment)??????

Cheers

LAVDUMPER

2nd Nov 2001, 19:02

Back up top...

Question for Goldair pilots: are you guys cross-qualified on other aircraft in your fleet? Would a L45 pilot also fly the CitationJet or Bravo? Do you prefer one aircraft over the other?

And... How many L45s do you expect to have eventually?

Cheers

Daifly

3rd Nov 2001, 23:51

Lav, why are you so desperate to find out all the info you can about flying for European operators? If you're in the States, it's not really going to affect you is it?

Who cares about how happy Goldair's crew are! Like most pilots, the job is probably enjoyable, the money OK - but there's always something better around the corner...

AMEX

4th Nov 2001, 01:28

Yeah, the questions are rather naive.

VIKING9

4th Nov 2001, 15:42

I say nothing http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/anon.gif

LAVDUMPER

5th Nov 2001, 23:17

Daifly and AMEX,

First, you don't have to read the posted questions if you are not interested... I am familiar with the operation and I would like to hear first-hand if the L45 pilots enjoy their work. I enjoy my work - and I do not fly a L45 - although I might want to some day...

Is that OK with you? Do I have to ask for your permission to ask questions? Is this not a FORUM? Do you have to waste all of our time with your lame responses?

I don't see you guys contributing in a positive way on this particular forum? If you have better questions, ASK THEM! Otherwise, allow others ask their own questions - whether you perceive them to be naive or not...

Daifly - your attitude sucks! Do you mind if I inquire about other pilots' jobs/lifestyles because I would like to compare them to my own - is that OK with you? You rarely post interesting questions yourself. Perhaps you should not drink and play with the computer at the same time...

Going forward, please contribute to this forum in a positive manner. Don't shoot down people because they may have naive questions - this is a FORUM where all types of questions are posted. Quit wasting our time... GOD BLESS!

The Groover

5th Nov 2001, 23:47

Hey Lavdumper

Looks like your banal postings have fallen on deaf ears.

Still, if you ask stupid questions, you get stupid answers, or in your case none at all !!! :p :p :p :p :p

Yawn........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

TG
------------------------------------

That's the way its goin' down.....baby !

LAVDUMPER

6th Nov 2001, 01:17

The Groover,

Another good contribution from you! Way to go! Boooooy, you must be intelligent - you used the word "banal" - are you still using the dictionary on a daily basis? You're cool... Who cares if you are insecure about your lack of intelligence and your remedial education - Really, I don't care...

Another example of a JACKA$$ response... I had several good responses before yours. It was a simple question looking for useful responses. That's all.

Perhaps we should keep the space open in the future for your PROFOUND questions (I am sure Daifly will have some as well) given you are so very intelligent... Yeah, good luck with that.

Any more positive contributions? If not, let's close up the thread because you wouldn't want to bore super-intellectuals like The Groover and Daifly...

Donkey Duke

6th Nov 2001, 01:40

To The Groover, Daifly, and AMEX,

Hello little boys. It's nice to see that you
all think LavDumper is Naive asking questions about the Lear 45 operator. Who are you dorks? You guys have no right to put Lav down. Heck, he obviously enjoys aviation-----but you jerks obviously live
"banal" lives doing the same things day in and day out. If you are bored with flying....quit. People come to this forum to ask questions and gain insight-----not to be "slammed" by underachieving idiot wannabe's like yourselves. Get the picture? Good. Contact departure---Donkey Duke. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Daifly

6th Nov 2001, 13:42

Lavdumper,

Of course you don't have to ask my permission to post here, old boy. In fact you just carry on posting to your hearts content...

Donkey, thanks for your rather insightful comments into the mind of an American ATP. It's nice to know that I'm an underachiever - I'd never known it until you pointed it out, thanks. Why would I wannabe a wannabe? Very, very strange...

All these lovely comments from just asking whether or not it was really useful for you, I mean world affectingly so, to know whether pilots of a company over here are happy? I mean it's nice of you to show your concern and all...

And my post about all pilots being happy with their lot until something better comes round the corner is also, I would argue, factual.

However, I would never seek to become profound. Although obviously you think I am, which is nice...

Just one other thing. How come no Goldair pilot has bothered to reply to you?

Stan Woolley

6th Nov 2001, 13:49

Lavdumper

I too find your posts intriguing.If you do fly you are very unusual in keeping your enthusiasm at that level,I'm glad for you if that's the case.

You have shown some vitriol towards Ryanair recently which surprised me,obviously you're not as naive as some of your posts may suggest.

I have no problem with you asking anything you like but I do sort of understand why some of your questions/statements produce the type of reply seen above.

Go on give us a clue!

activewaypoint

6th Nov 2001, 14:08

Hey BOGTIPPER......howz it going? Flying any interesting routes lately???Which aircraft do you like to fly most and why?
I remember one of your posts saying you were about to start a Citation X course. How was it? :D

Daifly

6th Nov 2001, 14:33

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=184103

£10 to the first person to spot them smiling.

My arse...

(I SMELL SPOTTERS)

LAVDUMPER

6th Nov 2001, 18:59

Daifly and Flanker,

I really do love aviation in general - yes, I am both a pilot and a person who appreciates the business-side of aviation (reason for Ryanair insights - although no vitriol directed toward Ryanair itself).

I question why people have to respond so negatively to simple questions - naive-sounding or otherwise. People don't have to respond to questions if they are not interested in the question...

I guess you could say I am not "jaded" like so many other pilots on this forum (seems quite evident that many people have not retained their enthusiasm for this job/lifestyle). That's pretty sad...

Daifly - I don't understand your attitude. Does it upset you that someone like me really does enjoy aviation - and perhaps you don't anymore? I am captivated by it. Is that why you attack me? In the future, instead of attacking an innocent question, perhaps you should just skip it - or contribute to the forum with your own interesting question.

Going forward, if I ask a question which you deem stupid or naive in the future, either provide a serious response or avoid it. I try to contribute positively on this and other forums. Time to move on....

Cheers

DROGNA

6th Nov 2001, 19:25

Lavdumper - I think it's worth remembering Groovers earlier post that there are other European Lear 45 operators out there and it isn't just Gold Air who have the monopoly. When all the attention is focused on one UK operator, the others, who do an equally good job, are bound to feel a little put out. :rolleyes:

Daifly

6th Nov 2001, 19:41

OK, you've calmed down a little, so I'll calm down a little.

I admire your continued enjoyment of aviation and all it possesses - I'm certainly not bitter about it all, and I have no desire to get out of it. There's always going to be this lack of understanding between America and UK humo(u)r, which naturally leads to problems. In the UK, humour (for what it's worth) is largely based around insult and p*ss-take - whereas in the States nobody dares to insult anyone at all - so we end up in this position of trading insults because of a lack of basic understanding.

So, we've got to move forward. Now either that involves us coming over there and teaching each and every one of you our sense of humour or, and this is more likely, I'll be a bit more contained in my responses to your spotting requests. BUT, don't push it...

- I take issue with your comment that I don't contribute to this forum though; I'm sure that someone at least will back up the fact that I make positive comments in other posts.

And one final thing, Lavdumper, you'll never understand my attitude!

There you go, that's almost an apology...

Stan Woolley

6th Nov 2001, 22:27

Lavdumper

If you have been a professional pilot for
more than five minutes you will either be cynical or have management ambitions.

For example I have been at the sharp end of a Lear 60 in Europe, it was far from being amazing or wonderful.I genuinely could not believe the poor training and the unprofessional attitude taken by the company towards many operational matters.

You don't seem to take on board the reality of what some people are telling you, so it is frustrating to continually see posts drooling over 'hot rods' like the Lears.

I personally think the Lear 60 looks quite nice, has nice engines but apart from that its awful.Ours were never out of maintenance for starters, the thing uses more runway than Concorde(AOC operation).I never met anyone who actually got to FL510 in one even if you were mad enough to want to!How it was certified for it I'll never know.
You can barely fit a pen in the cockpit and it's noisier than a bloody Islander - INSIDE!

The King Air 200 is the only other corporate type I have flown and although it is of course in a different class,it is ten times betterIMHO.

So if you go from a Bonanza to a Cheyenne, you will think the Cheyenne is a rocket ship.The rambling point of this post is that it's all relative when it comes to aeroplanes.

By the way I have no clue as to how happy or otherwise Goldairs pilots are,but are unlikely to be very different from any other bunch of pilots - an overpaid underworked bunch of whinging primadonnas!! ;)

correlator

7th Nov 2001, 00:58

There must be a lot of very scared GA operators out there judging by the various posts.

For pity's sake guys and girls - can't u see that Gold Air is just more efficient and better equipped. The charter market is changing and you can't keep charging your clients more than the market level. If the brokers are adding large margins - which only the cowboys do - then eventually the customer will get wise and the broker will lose the customer... not rocket science is it. Given comparable service and as long as they make a profit then Gold Air can't fail -
If you are the cheapest and the best then you will do Ok - I should stop moaning and start competing before its too late.

Daifly and Groover - you both work for GAMA so I suppose you can be forgiven for feeling sore. But will you guys be able to compete with your LR45? Or will the interest bankrupt you? $80,000 per month minimum cash requirement. LR45 is not like a LR35 - it needs a lot of TLC to keep it serviceable and a shop load of test equipment.

For the record - Jamaica trip was actually OK and CAA looked at this trip at last ops inspection. No problems as far as FOI was concerned. FTL observed correctly - all a misunderstanding with the new ops guys (who may be learning but they're bright - a big improvement now they are at Biggin. There were a lot of problems when ops were based at Cambridge - just the fact that the aircraft were remote from the ops staff. Got a happy team now - no moaners anymore.

GirlonMars..... - trust you! You always were an old woman!

Fact - Gold Air did not lose $7 million last year but was planned to make a loss as a result of the cost of fleet renewal and has now made £200K first quater profit this year.

As they say...if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Rumour has it Gama only getting one LR45 now - anyone know anything? Also rumour that Chauffair in tatters - only one Excel and no more to follow??? What's going on there??

Chin chin

JetFlux

7th Nov 2001, 03:07

Well said correlator....In fact isnt that you I can see in the front of the Lear 45 picture Daifly kindly pointed us in the direction of... (with a big smile of course.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=184103

GRIN...... :D

It is true though...There seem to have been plenty of posts lately about the possible ups and downs of GoldAir, but would be pretty interesting to hear about the ups and downs of some of the other boys....

[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: JetFlux ]

[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: JetFlux ]

The Groover

7th Nov 2001, 04:17

Correlator
Nice words, I have very much enjoyed your well scripted press release, sorry posting.
I am sure most of it is indeed true, I find your 'we are the best so na na na na na' a tad childish, but I suppose we all believe that we are the best at what we do otherwise we wouldnt do it !

I still believe however that in this life you get what you pay for !!

As for us ? Don't believe everything you hear, I am sure that if you did, then you would have more to worry about than we do !!

As for being sore, the only thing that is sore at the moment is our 'asses' due to how hard we are working up to the arrival of our new aircraft (hmm do I detect the plural being used there ?........just watch this space !!!!!)

I dont apologise for my postings here, Lavdumpers original posting seemed to me to be boring, and pretty inconsequential, it was answered in a tongue and cheek manner that is what makes pprune so enjoyable, if he cannot accept others opinions then he should not be in here, will you take offence at this posting ? I think not, just as I have enjoyed yours, and indeed responding to it. Its called INFORMED debate (even though my tongue is firmly in cheek !),a lot more relevant than discussing how happy a pilot looks on a blurred photo !

TG

Donkey Duke

7th Nov 2001, 22:49

Good Ole chaps---The Groover and silly Flanker,

By the way you cocky chaps sound, you're both in line for interviews to fly the Concorde. Your British "slapstick" humo(u)r
is hilarious to a point. I too will try to calm down and understand your semi-valid points. Sounds like Lavdumper still (??)
loves what he does and therefore should not be slammed for his enjoyment. I don't believe he was "brown nosing" for Goldair---it sounded like he just wanted to know alittle more about them. I am sure your company is also a good operator, and sure---you guys probably also do a good job---unless you both use some of that silly
humor on your pax----not good for repeat business--No? Lear 45's are nice birds, but so are Lear 35's. So, lay off people who actually enjoy this job, and you don't---quit. I'd rather hear from a "naive" person than a cocky one anyday. Get it? Got it? Good. Bye bye. Donkey Duke :cool: :cool:

Stan Woolley

7th Nov 2001, 23:36

Mr Donkey

Apart from the last paragraph my post was entirely serious!

The point is we still don't know what Lavdumper actually flies.

I talk to the passengers on the PA, I try not to be funny because two might laugh, while the other hundred odd cringe in their seats.

correlator

7th Nov 2001, 23:56

Groover,

We don't think we are better than any other operator - we just want to compete in a competitive market. We provide a good service at a good price. The proof of that is in the pudding. We have flown over 1500 hours of Lear 45 charter in 9 months and so we are qualified to talk about Lear 45. It is a superb aircraft - and great to fly Lavdumper - but it requires a lot of technical input. Because of the CAS system you can't turn a blind eye to tech problems as many operators I have flown for have done. Because defects are "on screen" and logged in the CMC they must be addressed immediately if they can't be deferred IAW the MEL. There are a lot of no go items. we have over $1 million LRU spares according to stores and loads of trained and excellent techies available thru the night. if you plan to operate this airplane like a LR35 forget it - it will bankrupt you.

I wish you the best of luck with your LR 45 (s) - very genuinely. I suspect that in 6 months you will look back and agree that the above is very fair.

All I was suggesting in the previous post was that other guys give Gold Air a break and steer clear of the slagging - who knows you might want a job one day and it's a small world in aviation?

LAVDUMPER

8th Nov 2001, 00:03

Correlator,

Your answer was what I was originally looking for when I started this post. Thank you for your response.

You sound very pleased with the L45 and its performance. Too bad others can't be so content with their positions or jobs. I am NOT looking for a flight position (as others have surmised), but you certainly sound like a person I could work with if I were European and had the opportunity. Good luck with your operation and I hope to see pictures of you flying your L45 someday...

See you on the flight line!

Cheers (an enthusiastic aviator)

correlator

8th Nov 2001, 00:09

Lavdumper,

You're welcome.

I enjoy working for Gold Air and the morale here is higher than a kite which always makes it a pleasure. There have been some disruptive people come - but they go pretty quick as they do in any good firm. The world is full of twats and most of them are in aviation!

In the meantime good safe flying to you all - I still love flying after all these years and the LR 45 has just increased that pleasure - it flies as good as it looks.

Girl From Mars

10th Nov 2001, 01:37

HO HO HO Correlator
You did always have a talent for making us laugh, I am just glad that we were in Cambridge and you were in Biggin !!!
Still no hard feelings eh ?????
I bet Groover and Daifly are not sore if their website is anything to go by www.gamagroup.com/jobs.asp (http://www.gamagroup.com/jobs.asp) ...Gulfstream 4 crews for THEIR Zurich operation ??????? Whats that all about then ??????
Also heard directly from one of their Captains the other day at LTN, that they have a Hawker 1000 going on the British register by Xmas, before the Lear 45 comes - its a 'done deal' was his words!!!!
Looks like these boys are getting out of your Division 3 league Correlator old boy !!!!
Gizza Job lads !!!!!