Speed Restriction <FL100

[Jonny M]

In consultation with some mates, studying for Air Law exam, we became a little confused when we came accross a class G speed restriction of 250 kts below FL100, the standard speed restriction in controlled aispace, this set me wandering. Do fast jet pilots have to set up TRAs evey time they need to get from A to B a little faster than this? or are jst reading wron and is there, in fact no speed restrictionin class G aispace. Or, option c, am on completely the wrong track and do mil. pilots have a completey different set of rules to the civviec?

[threepointonefour]

I once did Valley to Leeming in 12 mins!

Does that help?


ps. Sorry I wasn't more help - can't remember the exact answer so I thought I'd brag a little instead.

[Lafyar Cokov]

I was once described by ATC to a 737 as 'Very Fast Moving Traffic' - I was quite impressed by that - I was at 250ft though.............

[PPRuNeUser0211]

IIRC there's a military exemption clause somewhere? Otherwise I've been breaking the speed limit by more than my 10%+2 on one or two occasions......

[chiglet]

AFAIK, [Having worn both hats, albeit as an assistant] the 250kts is for Civvie a/c....to avoid "other" tfc I [of course] stand to be corrected.
watp,iktch

[rodan]

The 250kt rule, as well as other swathes of the ANO to which they have exemptions, does not apply to military aircraft. This is why you will also see the military flying below 500' and why you will see NOTAMs telling you about exercises in class G airspace stating something along the lines of 'military aircraft conducting high energy manoeuvres, may not be able to comply with the Rules of the Air'.

[StopStart]

Here you go kids, a very exciting PDF chart thingy. Note the "not applicable to military aircraft" caveat for the speed limits

Airspace Classifications (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/64/ATS_Classifications.pdf)

[check77]

The speed limits in Class G airspace are different for pretty much every country. For example, in The Netherlands, a maximum of 450 kts is allowed. Additionally, to allow that monstrous high speed (...), a minimum vis of 8 km is required. Germany has different speed limitations, depending of the "role" you are flying in. I am sure this is to make everything much easier:)

[Confucius]

I remember reaching 320kts at low level once.

Not that impressive but for the fact it was in a C130K.

[Ghostflyer]

870kts;) But the EF111 ahead got blamed for booming Holy Island:ok:

[orionsbelt]

Sorry to be a Nerd!!!!!!, but I think this answers the question
ICAO Article 3
The ICAO convention does not apply to State A/C, see the attached extract below. If anybody wants to trawl through Aip Gen 1.7 (UK differences 56pages ) to find somethig different please tell us all!
Article 3
Civil and state aircraft
a) This Convention shall be applicable only to civil aircraft, and shall not be applicable to state aircraft.
b) Aircraft used in military, customs and police services shall be deemed to he state aircraft.
c) No state aircraft of a contracting State shall fly over the territory of another State or land thereon without authorization by special agreement or otherwise, and in accordance with the terms thereof.
d) The contracting States undertake, when issuing regulations for their state aircraft, that they will have due regard for the safety of navigation of civil aircraft.
So watch out on the A1 for the Old Bill in your 6 o'clock in a Harrier GR7
(if any are servicable)
Cheers ***
Also See Cap 393 (2006 version )ANO Article 152 para 4 (if you can understand the legal patter ) :ugh:

[Carrots de Chaud]

I did hear of a civvy Hunter getting nicked based on ATC tapes!:= Might be a case of chinese whispers though.

[Checkboard]

The reason for the 250 knot rule is that, that is the speed decided by the powers to be as the maximum for visual "see and avoid" procedures to work.

In Class A, B & C airspace, IFR Civil aircraft are radar separated from both IFR and VFR aircraft - and thus don't have to rely on "see and avoid" procedures - hence no speed restriction.

In Class D airspace, IFR aircraft are radar separated from other IFR [civil] traffic, but not from VFR traffic, so there is a speed restriction of 250 knots, in order to give a chance for "see and avoid" to work.

ICAO provides that state aircraft (i.e. military ones) are not bound by this restriction. The presumption is that military aircraft are equipped with on board traffic radar that enables them to provide their own traffic separation, those military aircraft that are not so equipped are required by international law to have procedures in place to provide equivalent safety. That means you don't exceed 250 knots in a non-radar trainer outside of a military danger area/ military traffic radar area.

[Ex F111]

250K - I could lower the landing gear at that speed (and still had 100K until the overspeed!).

[TOPBUNKER]

Quote: "The presumption is that military aircraft are equipped with on board traffic radar that enables them to provide their own traffic separation, those military aircraft that are not so equipped are required by international law to have procedures in place to provide equivalent safety. That means you don't exceed 250 knots in a non-radar trainer outside of a military danger area/ military traffic radar area."

And my presumption is that you just made up the above load of complete horsepoo.




Edited to add the word quote - "Quote" !

[threepointonefour]

"The presumption is that military aircraft are equipped with on board traffic radar that enables them to provide their own traffic separation, those military aircraft that are not so equipped are required by international law to have procedures in place to provide equivalent safety. That means you don't exceed 250 knots in a non-radar trainer outside of a military danger area/ military traffic radar area."

That's almost cute :ok: