Gulf Air 330 lands - on 4th attempt!!!!

[4HolerPoler]

Found this hot rumour on another forum:

19th April 2007 Bahrain, Middle East Flight GF0716, Airbus 330 en route from Joburg to Bahrain had 3 missed landing attempts and successfully landed on the 4 th attempt. According to one passenger their was abit of wind turbulence on the 3rd attempt, aircrew & passengers were crying, and applauded on the successful landing. The first 2 attempts they were not lined up with the runway. I wonder what went wrong:- incompetence, severe weather in the Middle East on a clear night, wind shear, cross winds?

Rumour? BS? Fact? Bring it on.

4HP

[point8four]

4HP - fact it is...
My wife and kids were strapped firmly to the beast for all 4 approaches. She also seems to think it was hot n hi on app no1(she has 10 years of flying under her belt incl 727's so its an educated opinion not speculation), not sure why it took 3 more cracks to get in.
For the record: No crying pax or crew - in fact she mentioned 1 of the ladies examining the visage(face n make up) in her compact mirror for most of the time. (must have had a date that night).
No applause on landing either(she was in J - but steerage was within earshot). Acceptable result, just a little paperwork to complete and a raised eyebrow for the fuel burn no doubt. Especially in these troubled cost saving times.
No turbulance on any of the approaches either? Might have been a little vis problem?
Oh well c'est la vie.....spoon firmly in hand, pot anyone?

[tbaylx]

i'm guessing it had to do with the Phase 4 construction in OBBI. THe VOR approach is offset, and if vis comes down to under 3KM it can be a real pain to see the runway and get lined up properly in time to stabilize. If it was during the construction period the alternate "short" runway is in use as well which makes it a bit more tricky. Could be they just didn't see it in time to stabilize due to poor vis?? I'd say it's better they went around 3 times than to try and line up on a runway they saw at the last moment.

[jackbauer]

It always amazes me how wives can tell by sitting in the back just what the speed and altitude of the aircraft is. Even on a non precision app they are remarkably accurate! I don't know why we don't just replace the pitot static system and air data computers with a bunch of wives. While we are at it lets just make them all pilots too. My mates wife was a hosty for 20 years so she could be a TRE.

[Desert Diner]

With the aid of the IFE I would imagine.

[NZ X man]

Three weeks ago, 4 aircraft diverted to Alternates due wind shear, low level turbulance on a clear night in Bahrain. It was clear, No CB's, no Build ups. We landed in our executive jet, and it was interesting to watch the 40 knot change of direction in wind in 250 ft.
So there are conditions in Bahrain, clear, no visible weather, that would make it very difficult to land. What those pilots were doing, only they know, but just because there are no signs of conditions that warrent bad wind shear or turulance, does not mean that it is not present.:)

[sidestick driver]

Some guys did one approach last year and landed on the wrong runway, so if he made 4 attempts and landed correctly, good for them.

A number of guys diverted this week, they needed 5km vis and didn't have it, held for a bit and then headed home. Nothing wrong in that to.

The VOR is off set and crosses the extended centre line of both runways, so you must be sure which runway you have, before you crank in the left turn and flare. If it took 4 attempts, then so be it-I'm sure it was the safest thing to do.

[tournesol]

Some companies intruct their crews that after the second missed approach, the third try should only be attempted if a major improvement in the conditions has been observed(P.S. the wordings are mine and may not be exact but you get the idea).
To execute 3 missed approaches and try the forth one isn't that a bit pushy ? :=

[tbaylx]

depends on how much fuel you have....if you've got the gas and go around 40 times its far safer than pushing an unstabilized approach. It's the discretion of the crew, if they think it warrants another approach then go for it imho.

[ironbutt57]

How does wind change direction by 40kts???? Thought directions were in degrees??? Windshear might have more effect on an airplane with greater mass correct??? Or maybe your safety standards on the bizjet are not as high as on a commercial airliner???

[Desert_Storm]

well, two days ago, I had the "privilege" to land in Bahrain RWY 12R, 8:30 AM, blowing dust but according to our ATC, visibility was 5000 mts. Mates, can assure that it wasn't more than 800 mts and this is a very optimistic thought. We could barely see RWY12L just at minimums for this new visual VOR RWY12R. No doubt this guy made 4 attemps; Anyway, something must have to be done with the "accuracy" of the ATC visual measurements; guess they are bullsh.... us with this issue.:=

[Desert Diner]

How does wind change direction by 40kts????

I took it as wind shear in 40knot winds (e.g. 40 knot wind changed direction).

Then again, I could be wrong.:}

[ironbutt57]

Brings to mind NWA's "inaugural" flight to Brussels in a DC-10...all the pax watched it on the IFE as well....maybe the crew should have had one in the flt deck (cone of confusion doesn't only apply to VOR's you know):}

I suppose a 40kt shear would be grounds for a go-around

[Desert Diner]

If you've never heard the story of the NWA crew who didn't know they were heading for the wrong when (through the IFE) all the passengers did, it's worth a read...

The GF IFE is quite good for that. Always interesting to see almost reaching Doha before turning for the approach:suspect:

[ironbutt57]

At the end of the day...nobody has the right to judge the crew involved...while it's lots of fun to speculate...(after all it IS a rumour website)...we dont know the whole story...only the QAR tape tells the truth...and believe you me...it's being scrutinized by our flt safety dept as we post....so give them the latitude you would yourselves expect as professional pilots..and the rest of you "wannabees" read this page for the FACTS say what you want about GF...the facts are reviewed and included in our training AQP system as necessary...if it ain't posted here...it's rubbish:ok: and it may be rubbish even if it's posted here...we here at GF pride ourselves in that beyond any reasonable doubt, we have the most advanced, progressive, productive training system in the region...and elsewhere for that matter....:ok:

[lovdates]

dream on dude.....your safety record suggests differently.
No offence....... :sad: just facts

[White Knight]

Millerscourt - where are you when we need your vast knowledge and expertise to talk about this event, I'm sure you're in the know:yuk: :yuk:

[Desert Diner]

At the end of the day...nobody has the right to judge the crew involved...while it's lots of fun to speculate...(after all it IS a rumour website)...we dont know the whole story...only the QAR tape tells the truth...and believe you me...it's being scrutinized by our flt safety dept as we post....so give them the latitude you would yourselves expect as professional pilots..and the rest of you "wannabees" read this page for the FACTS say what you want about GF...the facts are reviewed and included in our training AQP system as necessary...if it ain't posted here...it's rubbish and it may be rubbish even if it's posted here...we here at GF pride ourselves in that beyond any reasonable doubt, we have the most advanced, progressive, productive training system in the region...and elsewhere for that matter....

What's up your butt IB? No signs of GF bashing here. Just credible observations from people that sound like they know what they are talking about.

No offence....... just facts

[BusyB]

Still waiting to read about what went wrong with the 340 departure from BKK some time ago. Keep it secret and nobody learns from it.:=

[Dessert Aviator]

ATTN: Busy Bee

BKK report out in full a long while back lessons to be learnt have already been incorporated into the AQP.

[BusyB]

Dessert Aviator,

I never saw any details in our company's safety newsletter (we do operate A340's). Is there a link.:confused:

[ironbutt57]

Well busy bee...either you dont work here, or you're brain dead...whichever the case u missed the boat.....old news....:confused:

[JustFacts]

1) Lessons Learned from BKK incident were used by GF training department.

2) The incident was presented at Airbus 12th Flight Safety Confrence at Lisbon Oct. 2005 (Get the CD from Airbus Flight Safety! )

3) The incident was also presented at regional GCC flight safety meetings

4) The FACTS about the alleged 4 approaches are as follows:

First Approach: discontinued at 1200feet due to change of runway from 12L to 30R as a result of surface wind change
Second Approach: the crew encountered windshear and company SOP for windshear recovery was followed and Go Around Carried out
Third Approach: Safe Landing (no fourth approach!)

[Fox3snapshot]

Nice work... :D

[bus787]

Its about time Facts start getting out here.yes it is a rumours network but some people put posts to hurt others.
Busy b your r either too busy or you fly in the bush.BKK incident is as all of them a chain of events.GF guys wer a bit unlucky to be the ones there.could have been anyone of you or your company.make your research and learn from it.THIS is how adults learn.
The three attempts on app .with 330 where as rightly said change of runway and winshear .What is wroing with that???isnt that normal.??
This is what people are trained to do.
One of the biggest assets GF has is the pilots and the Training /AQp dept.
Hopefully the new AD recognises this facts.
GOAROUND Flaps.

[Desert Diner]

First Approach: discontinued at 1200feet due to change of runway from 12L to 30R as a result of surface wind change
Second Approach: the crew encountered windshear and company SOP for windshear recovery was followed and Go Around Carried out



Just another typical spring day in the gulf.