Would you join EK if you could turn the clock back?

[critical winge]

Having previously seen the poll on "is EK a long or short career prospect", I thought it might be useful to new hires if people posted in a poll (if 4HP can arrange ) would they haved joined EK if they had known what they know now?

My answer, glad I came, now not as good as I had hoped, roll on the 7 and would I do it again in hindsight, probably not!

[ShockWave]

Even with all the changes, not much has hugely changed. Apart from Dubai itself. So Yes.

[LHR Rain]

Not a chance in Hell. With all that EK has changed and done to their crews it simply is not worth the effort of leaving your established carriers and going to the sand.

[cerbus]

You have to look at where a particlualr pilot is and what his expectaions are. For most pilots Emirates does not measure up but for other pilots it is a dream job. (Read my post on another thread.) Inflation, erroding T&C, falling dollar, traffic etc etc it probably does not measure up to what other airlines are offering so you have to think long and hard about coming to join Emirates and it probably is only going to get worse.

[mini cooper]

NO
-I neither respect or trust management
-living in Dubai has caused more heartache for the family than is good for us
-I regret having come here ( in fact I regreted it once I arrrived and realised I couldn't go back to where I had been at the same position
Am actively looking at leaving when the right time comes!!!

[disconnected]

I'm glad I came and the early years were great. There was a great optimism and we were treated with appreciation.

Its getting pretty tough now though with the duties getting more tiring. EK also manages to fill up a great deal of your free time with various chores.
The constant distortions of the truth from management are tedious. Why dont they just tell it like it is? The outcome is the same but at least they would maintain credibility and respect.

Given the exchange rate, cost of living and traffic in Dubai, I think if I was to look at EK now I would probably go elsewhere and choose a better lifestyle even if the package was a bit less

[maddog62]

Same same....but different....

I try not to forget how my old job was....:yuk:
Family is very happy, might get a wide body command in 4 yrs, so, yes, I'd do it again....

mad

[White Knight]

YES - would do it again..

I enjoy the flying (not even doing too much now that the 777's taking the flak), the blokes - and gal - that I fly with are all great people, variety of destinations. Most importantly though my wife and kids are happy here - lots to do (and no, it's not always involving vast sums of money!!!), places to see etc etc.

What could change - Obviously salary is behind inflation, but I'm lucky as I don't have a mortgage anywhere, so can keep any spare cash salted away in $US overseas 'til it strengthens - which it will in a typical economic cycle..
Roads, slowly getting there - not sure about some behind the wheel though:ugh:
Train people up who need it - rather than the usual "dumbing down" nonsense. Example being the "don't practice NPA's" syndrome... Don't screw people over with random policy changes.

On balance - yep, it was a good move for me. I can understand and sympathise with those who haven't got on with EK and Dubai - good luck with greener grass:ok:

[CAYNINE]

Yes would do it agan,
It's as stated above good network, good aircraft, good guys to fly with and a training department that is trying its hardest to do it right. (bit hard without the support in respect to the hours and the effort applied though, my hat off to them for sticking with it).
Has on the other hand forced the sale of all overseas property due the currency devaluation against os currency, traffic.... I have to have a damn good reason to go to the city/Diera area, and can't wait till the digging and building stops or at least looks like being somewhere near complete and usable.
Just my personal take on it, I do remember my old job and this is so far in front.....but that's just me:ok:

[Oblaaspop]

YES!
Been here over 3 years now, and although the gloss of EK and Dubai has certainly worn away, me and the wife and kids are very happy here and are glad we made the move, have hardly flown this month!

[bogeydope]

oblaaspop, heh.................????????

Good thing you haven't flown much this month......!! Hope you don't need one on the road............????!!! :uhoh:

[ZQN]

Yes - but now it's time to leave. Dubai and EK have been good for my career and family but it has changed so much in the past few years.

With daily near-death experiences on the roads and high cost of living, I'm over the whole Dubai experience. The only way that EK will be able to retain my services is to offer a basing or remote rostering. :ugh:

[White Knight]

Aiming point - you've obviously missed my point. There's plenty going on around this parts if you can be bothered to get off your fat ar$e - sadly I've met some who've not even left city limits of Dubai yet, and they whinge that there's nowt to do:confused:
Career aspirations?? WTF are you blathering on about - is the seat of an Air France 330 ANY DIFFERENT to an EK 330?? Don't think so. Oh and yes, I did leave what you could call a CHOICE airline to come here and YES I would do it again - 'cos I didn't like the CHOICE airline.....

[CAYNINE]

I have to totally agree with the Knight,

There's heaps to do just got to be motivated off the couch and go do it. Get in the car and explore it's not that scary!

I too came from a "good" company, but stagnation and management policies have since I left been the normal affliction there, so am very happy to sit in my Bus and enjoy the benefits of EK.... and there are benefits.

[gj18457]

10 years ago most guys came from choice airlines as EK was an educated risk
in both income, lifestyle and career. Even up to 5 years ago it was still an ok decision. Today it is different and we know longer get the guys and gals from the top airlines for obvious reasons which have been honestly expressed on the middle east forums. To come to EK/EY from a crap LCC ,South America or a furlough situation is perhaps a easy decision. In hindsight I would not do it again and have exposed my family to great risk. Economically also it has not been worth it. Career wise I suppose we get to fly newish equipment however with the impending pilot shortages I think I will sell myself to the highest bidder. Perhaps someone who doesn't change the terms and rules every 5 minutes. All the best to those that are coming and leaving. I hope I will be in the leaving group soon enough.

[Schnowzer]

Yes, I'd still come but only for the sunshine.

The results of these polls are meaningless anyway. Some guys have so many multiple pseudonyms they end up having a chat with themselves. Is that called chasterbation? Others have never worked for EK but feel qualified to comment. When I joined I thought EK were great to work for but while still positive, that has changed. The question I have for myself is how much because it has really got worse and how much my perspective has changed as a former honeymooner.

I have seen friends join and seem like pigs in sh*t for a couple of years and then things have gone downhill. The guys that still enjoy it accept it for what it is, not a bad job, a captains airline and get on with it. Utopia Airlines it isn't but I have to laugh when I sit around with my mates going on about the old days. If they were so great why did we leave?

As to Choice jobs, my first job was the best job anyone could ever have but after a few years, you get used to it and start to look for greener pastures.

[Marooned]

SP: I said no because if I could 'turn the clock back' and go back to my previous employer, I would be in a much better position than I am now. 20:20 hindsight however is useless and that fact is based on the information I had then, which was very little but generally positive, EK was the right decision to make.

In answer to your question: Once here it is not that easy to leave. You have given up your previous command and seniority, moved the family and resettled the kids... it just is not that easy to pack up again and go elsewhere. I also had faith that the decline in Ts & Cs would be temporary and that things would change for the better eventually. This naive hope soons gets knocked out of you with every FCI/N announcing another cost neutral change where we always end up paying the price.

What you can do is bide your time, get your command back, get some hours and then look for some more suitable options. There were not that many options a few years ago but now there are and many have already taken these new opportunities and after May many more will... including me.

EK could have been so good. Instead it has been managed down to mediocraty and all the short term cost cutting won't pay a fraction of the long term cost it will end up having to pay for.

[ekpilot]

White Knight, I'd hardly call ChippyFryer a 'Choice' airline...:uhoh: :uhoh:

[White Knight]

ekpilot - nor would I... However spending two years at Big Airways (what some may consider a choice outfit- even your good self) after they absorbed what was a great outfit, gotta say it wasn't for me:ok:

[Remove Status]

YYYYYYYYYYes











Can't Find anywhere better...

[millerscourt]

ekpilot re White Knight's comment that he came from a "Choice" airline. You beat me to it. I would put his previous airline in the category described by gj18457 ie crap LCC,South American or on furlough stuation. He was flying a clapped out BAE 146, sure he was no doubt strutting around in a BA uniform but that was as close to the real BA that he was ever going to get!! If he had stayed he would now be part of Flybe. As I recall he had the choice of remaining at Gatwick but as a F/O or keeping his command and moving to Birmingham. Not exactly spoilt for choice was he!!??:=
I cannot imagine any Captain is joining EK from the UK except perhaps at age 55 just for a change of lifestyle.

10+ years ago you would have had no problem getting Captains from the likes of Britannia,Monarch etc etc but no more which is a reflection of how bad the current T & C's are now in the Gulf region. Exchange rates have not helped either.

[Backwater]

Remove Status: Welcome to Dubai. Enjoy your honeymoon.

[White Knight]

MC - If I'd stayed I'd be right seat 777/744 or back in left seat short-haul. I had nothing to do with BA Connect:ugh: :ugh:
Like I said though (if your old eyes had read through the posts properly) it was not the airline for me!!! Now I'm left seat 330 - are you saying now that I still made the wrong choice... If so then I consider you to be a very sad person:= :=

Clapped out old 146? - better check your info Millers:{

To go back to the thread - interesting to see an almost 50/50 split.........

[Wizofoz]

Speaking to a mate tonight, and we came to this conclusion...


Guys who have been in EK a while are disillusioned because they are comparing it to how it used to be (and it's not as good as it once was).

Guys who joined recently compare it to what's on offer in the rest of the industry (And...Ditto!!)

[Remove Status]

Backwater , thanks I'm enjoying my 8 years honeymoon in Dubai and you Enjoy your hard life dude..

[L1011]

Didn't vote bcos my situation is different.
Came here a while ago, before many. With hindsight I should have left a few years ago. The slide started with TCK; AAR and TCAS have just made it worse.

Kick myself - there was an offer a few years back that I turned down, due mostly to inertia but also bcos I thought it would change for the better here. :rolleyes:
Looking around now, plenty of jobs out there, one that suits will come up eventually. In the meantime the US$ is gutting me, whatever small gains the Prov Fund makes are wiped out.:{

[Backwater]

Remove status: Eight years eh? Whatever...:rolleyes:

[Remove Status]

Backwater, Yes dude 8 years. . and hey we are 2 different persons I'm happy you are NOT .. At the end 8 or 12 years it won't make a difference you are going to still be unhappy even if you change company.

Good luck man

[Backwater]

Remove Status. You seem to confuse happiness with a desire for the preservation of our lifestyle.
Born again boys like yourself who are so happy to bend over and take whatever the management throw at them do not help our profession.
The fact is our lifestyle has gradually eroded over the years and you will note, with the introduction of a 1000hr maximum and more factoring it is now rapidly becoming much much worse. If you are not affected by this then stay on the sheesha. But many are. It doesn't automatically denote unhappiness which you have assumed.
Have yyyyyyyou got that. Dude? Tw@.

[Remove Status]

Backwater, whatever dude.

Ok I'll be the boy and I'll stay in emirates. YOU,be wise old man, go somewhere else and look for a better lifestyle

[CAYNINE]

Remove Status,

Good on you for enjoying the job, good on you for seeing that Emirates has given you what you need and enjoy to have satisfaction, I'm sure your family is also happy here because you live in a positive environment with a positive attitude. :ok:

Yes Backwater everything here has changed especially in the last 3 years but mate it's changed everywhere! Take a moment and look in other forums, Qantas guys unhappy with the changes, Cathay guys unhappy with changes......

Every one has a different set of values that suit them to create the comfortable life they want, we can't expect things to remain the same here, the company will always try on things to see what they can get for nothing but that's what it was like when we signed up and that's the way it will remain, (and I'm not advocating being passive, but there is still a reality)

I really respect the guys that have voted with their feet because they have made a choice for change, everyone has that option and given the amount of jobs apparently tauted here on this forum I am surprised that you haven't left.....maybe it's not as bad as you think. :hmm:

[Austin Holed]

Methinks Remove Status comes from some grimy third world country, so he is more than happy in a shiny third world country.
However in answer to the original question..NO.
Continual attacks by management on working conditions, which I might add, impinge on safety; rampant inflation not matched by token payrises; twisted & bizarre interpretations of regulations & the FOM plus extreme avarice which leads to a general disregard for the welfare, health & happiness of all staff, whether they load the bags, fly the aeroplanes, make the sandwiches or dish them out.
Sure I have a command on a shiny big jet, but I am ashamed to say that it wasn't til I got that command on a shiny big jet that I realised that there was a heck of a lot more to life. Am I going to walk the walk and vote with my feet, no - not yet, because what is truly sad, is that there is still not a lot around that's better (alas, no EU passport or Green Card for me)
What to do? Keep the head down, go to work, keep it safe & do whatever I can to preserve the health & happiness of my family & I.
Keep discovering boys & girls.

[Marooned]

I agree Caynine that changes have been happening elsewhere. However these changes have at least been resisted by the pilots and the organisations there to represent them. Here they can and do go to the extremes as there is absolutely no credible resistance to any of the changes they wish to make in the name of productivity aka greed.

Here resisitance is futile and once assimilated you have to take it or leave.

There have actually been changes in airlines that have actually improved Ts & Cs mainly to keep experienced staff. Many of the locos have found out the hard way that eventually pilots do leave and the added cost of training and loss of experience is much greater in the long run which in turn stunts growth. This happening in EK and one way or another it will need to adapt if it is to sustain any where near the growth rate it suggests.

It doesn't have to be the way it is in EK... it could and should be so much better but it isn't. Whether it makes us happy or not is up to us.

[yardman]

Yes, I would do it over again, even with the benifit of hindsight. The fact is that our industry isn't the same anymore. EK isn't unique in this regard. Look at the US. I for one am thankful that I don't have to suffer under the conditions that those poor buggers have to.

[atiuta]

This is the best flying job I have had yet my answer was an emphatic NO.
The question is of course hypothetical and I consider myself to have a "positive" view to life here.

Why did I say no? Well for starters....and I'm only scratching the surface

Inflation
Exchange Rates

(The former has totally eroded any resemblance of a salary increase...)

Driving
Skype (it's the principle)

It's always going to be an individual decision to come/stay based on what you have vs what you think you're going to get. Most of my list is beyond Emirates control, but the solution isn't. Naturally that would involve a paradigm shift in someones thinking but that could be asking a little too much.

Likely to leave? I won't know unless the right offer presents itself but I couldn't rule anything out.

[Remove Status]

CAYNINE, Thanks and I totally agree with what you said

Austin Holed, I dont come from a third world country mate..but tell me what did your first world country that you come from offered you.

ON The hand i liked what you said here

"What to do? Keep the head down, go to work, keep it safe & do whatever I can to preserve the health & happiness of my family & I.
Keep discovering boys & girls."

I do the same but with my head always Up.

Keep discovering dude

[Austin Holed]

"I do the same but with my head always Up"

Up where?

[six7driver]

Austin Holed.....nice attitude guy, certainly not up where your head is. Would hate to fly with you man... so it took you a command on a big jet to discover that your title is not who you are...wow you must be quite a gem of a pilot and person....whah whah whah my life is so bad and its all someone elses fault. I guess that's what you said about your shiney first world job before you came to EK. It was the shiney first world that you came from wasn't it? what's not surprising is that you say you can't leave because nothing better has come up, typical attitude of someone with a superiority complex. So let me get you straight, it's so bad at EK that you just won't leave? thanks to posts like yours guess what I've just discovered.............that there are jerks at EK too!

[Austin Holed]

Wow, try decaf buddy.

[Trashed Aviator]

[B][SIZE="6"]NO
Big mistake, good experience initially but a long term flop.
Would rather live in a civilised country than the uae. If no basings then im outta here in 12 months. Sorry.:(

[six7driver]

"Wow try decaf buddy"

I'm not your buddy Austin, but I guess it's just in your nature to tell other people what to do or try. If I were your buddy I'd have this advice for you: don't disqualify people's opinions based on where they come from example: "me thinks remove status comes from some grimy third world country",... you'll come across as a bigot. Also don't cast the first stone and ridicule those who don't share your opinion and then act shocked when the same happens to you. You are right though, I was too harsh in my comments but your ignorance is hard to suffer. My apologies, fly safe and I hope you leave EK and find your happiness soon.

[CAYNINE]

Yo 67D......... high 5 man good work.

A Holed....12R or 20R at 15? you seem to be misaligned.

[Mistah Kurtz]

NO ... In the last five years the number of "cost neutral changes" that have adversely affected pilots pay and lifestyle is hard to stomach.

[cerbus]

Every month another cost neutral policy change for the worse of the pilot group. Every month the dollar falls lower. Evey month the traffic in Dubai gets more congested. Every month our internet provider blocks or shuts down another technological aspect of our lives. Every month more DECs come and take our jobs.
Where does it all end? What do these people want from us? Gives us back our sanity and let us lead our lives how we see fit.
I know back to reality. That will not happen in the middle east so it is time to go and pack up the camel and return to the real world.

[Expanding Rod]

No.
I'm happy, but still no.
Too many lies, half truths and street tactics.
They hate us and the feeling is mutual.
Individuals may be happy but Dubai is not a happy community and EK is not (generally) a happy place to work.
My opinion.

[fatbus]

'Individuals may be happy but Dubai is not a happy community and EK is not (generally) a happy place to work.'

Very good way of putting it.

[etops777]

Family is packing up and heading back to good ole USA. As for me, I will be commuting for awhile and eventually pack up.

I would not do it again if I can turn back the clock:=

[Ramboflyer 1]

Its so simple EK,
Im leaving to an airline that bases me at my real home for more money.
If you could have used me from home base i would have stayed.
Dubai is a terrible place to bring up your kids, especially :mad: as they grow older.
Good riddens Dubai...................

[Austin Holed]

Ah CAYNINE, it's the one two zero radial at 15 DME.

[cal_dog]

For some of you that are looking for the best among the best jobs in the business, please let me know where they are. Chances are that everywhere one might end up in these days, it will not be like what used to be. Benefits compatible with the risks and responsabilties we take, are long gone.
Despite the fact that EK might not be the paradise for some, it still has one of the best pilot packages on the market.
Unfortunatelly, being an expat in such a foreigner country make us from time to time dream about how life was better back home and how happier we where when we started in this business. The older you get more nostalgic are the histories we hear from friends and acquaintances. Life was better for the majority of the people I know. So looking for happiness some place else is a personnal choice and risk. Happiness is what should guide oneself.
So for you that think that you are in the wrong palce working for the wrong company, just leave. Maybe the working place improves with the motivated people that stayed behind.

[nolimitholdem]

I do concede the point that ANYWHERE is better than CAL. Not the greatest argument to defend EK with though and probably not something they can use in the glossy pilots salespitch DVD's.

[Cyberbird]

quoted by Rambo:
"Its so simple EK, Im leaving to an airline that bases me at my real home for more money. If you could have used me from home base i would have stayed.
Dubai is a terrible place to bring up your kids, especially as they grow older"


...that's spot on - and i know for sure, that today (day one after this disgusting & disgraceful slap in the face with a single (!) month profit-share by our greedy wonnabe-managers) the resignments will pour in massivly -
icluding mine, as soon, as i've passed the interview in Europe at the end of the month!

EMIRATES is definitively going downhill- like the whole lifestyle and payment in DXB -which once (long time ago!) was one of the best You can get!

But thanks to TCAS and others - EK is just "another average job in the ME"

- just my thoughts - and /bet on it/ next christmas won't be in Silicon oasisi - rather back in Europe in a nice country, with educated & polite people, who CAN drive cars and RESPECT the others !:*

[BYMONEK]

Mmm.......................that's the UK out then!

[GoreTex]

"with educated & polite people" OZ must be out as well, too bad the country is great.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Well looks like the new TCs pay rise , Bonus and 6 percent pay HIKE have done wonders for retention. From FEB to APRIL 8 captains and 6 Fos have resigned. EK must be doing something right!!!

[MR8]

Bikker, don't think these months are valid indicators.. As usual, people just hang on a few extra months to get the bonus. They might regret it though now they know that it's only one month...

I expect a high resignation rate just after the bonus has been paid out... looks like it will be a hot summer again.

MR8

[jinglied]

No, I would not have come.

For me, with kids, I actually misjudged Dubai. EK is pretty much what I expected, even though it has deteriorated in the last few years.

Dubai however is another story. From lousy customer service in almost every category, traffic that is a DANGER (not just gridlocked but DANGEROUS) to you and your family, and a legal/enforcement system that biases Emirati's vice expats'...

I would not have come....

Jinglied

[Saltaire]

Another knob justifying his own position....good for you. Didn't get the job offer?

[White Knight]

wee one - sorry pal but there's no way I'd live as chattel under blair/brown:}

The pit's better for personal choice than UK/Europe. Yes, I have a JAR licence too:hmm: :hmm: I just don't get why you'd want to work for a charter company in UK.... Tenerife and back five days a week - you're welcome:ok:

[White Knight]

Funnily enough Wee one the flying side of things has been quiet this year - at least for myself. 59 hrs jan, 59 hrs feb, 33 hrs mar and 62 apr. Think the BOING fellas are taking the heat at the mo:E I'm not complaining... Sure you'll be off to Tf soon with the summer sun shell-suit folks:}

[montencee]

....White Knight, because your March roster consisted of very nearly two weeks of leave and a further four sick days that ran into said leave. In April you were on Reserve for the entire month and achieved only minimum days off plus a few days of Standby that you weren't called out on. And your May roster is nothing to boast about unless you happen to like night turnarounds to the far end of the subcontinent.

Excuse my apparent nosiness but on the same fleet (+340) I did 90-100 hrs in every month this year. Guess I'm doing your flying.

[White Knight]

Montencee - I wasn't actually boasting about my roster, just passing on FACTS.. Yes, generally reserve month means min days off and standbys. And no, I really dislike ANY turnarounds:ugh: Glad you're doing my flying - I did my share the last couple of years.....

[montencee]

Rubbish, you were being economical with the truth so as to score points of wee one.

I'd be very happy to get $11,000 for a turnaround to the Canaries once a week, at night even. Care to tell us who you work for, wee one?

[Jackson Bombay]

Long Haul (UK) Charter = Best job in the world
Short Haul (uk) Charter =Worst job in the world
Long Haul Schedule = Good
Short Haul Schedule = Never done it, but didn't see the point spending 12hr's on an jet to end up where you started unless your bird is a playboy bunny or you just had a kid and need to be home every night. (No disrespect to the flat earthers)
Uk = great in the summer, **** in the winter
Dxb = reverse the above.
Please can everybody moan on prune so i don't have to listen to it at work.
Oh and EK FTL's are a joke! (Moan over)

[freddi16]

remove status,check your pm

[Macaroon]

In EK for 4 years, not crew or FO but the gripes voiced here are genuine to varying degrees and effect all of EK.
Would I join if I knew then what I know now? Yes, as overall it's better here than back in UK but has, and is still, getting worse on many counts.
Why am I still here? As I say it's still better here than UK but I am actively looking into other regions for my next move which will not be back to Blighty. I feel I am better armed with lessons learned to evaluate any further move.
May be it will be OK once they finish building the damn place:hmm:
Until then, smoke 'em of you got 'em :cool:

[safijean]

I joined EK in 1996, at 19 years old, it was a very good airline then, im glad i went for 5 years. Now i dont know how they are.

[Ghostflyer]

Safi,

As a 19yr old what?

Ghost

[Farty Flaps]

Dont know if its of interest but a colleague attended an open day recently.(no not me) He was told that there are about 20 DEC slots to fill then the policy is to be shelved.
Is this not good news for those waiting command. Just thought Id pass on the info, didnt want to start a new thread as its not really my bag.:D

[GMDS]

Join again? Maybe yes, maybe no. It's frustrating to see the road EK goes down. Voting with your feet is quite radical, with family. At least now we have a tiny little lever: Word has it that the first guy confronted with a LOSA inspector already refused. This is unprecedented for the LOSA team and s***** up some chiefs at EK as it does not flatter them. Keep up the good work pals, this is a rare occasion to show our disgust at some actions from above :ok: . At least i myself will also refuse, if concerned:= .

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Why would you refuse??? Curious

SyB :zzz:

[ruserious]

Why would you refuse??? Curious
I guess there could be any number of reasons why someone would refuse, after all I believe Ed's first reaction was to suggest disciplining the guy's who refused. Kind of fly's in the face of everything LOSA stands for and defines nicely our organisational culture. Autocratic, paranoid and punitive. Maybe the guy's that are refusing are just a symptom of an organisation in crisis :ugh: :ugh:

[Backwater]

Organisation in crisis?

Just wait until the 12 month totals start nudging 1000 and above and the fatigue-related ASRs skyrocket. The GCAA will suddenly alter their 'interpretation' of the CARs to reflect reality and guess what? EK will be short of 200 pilots overnight. THEN we will see an organisation in crisis!!

[GMDS]

Why refuse SYB?

our organisational culture. Autocratic, paranoid and punitive.

ruserious is spot on. Add to that the jump-seat interdiction. Why should i have a guy controlling me on this very jump-seat and if a collegue or my wife would like to travel on it, i would get the red card? Heard about the skipper who took someone on it in an emotional emergency? Talkin' about compassion by our company: they punished him with the removal of the profit share!
I agree that looking at the idea of LOSA a refusal is not very logic. Looking at what EK wanted and still would like to do with it, it's pure survival.
Apart from that, i'd like to see the majority refusing and EK taking that as the signal it represents: We disapprove of their managing style. Some walk in the absence of dialogue and cooperation, others will not (for the moment) for various reasons. But here at least we might pass on a message.

[sandkfir]

Am I the only one who has noticed a subtle change in the wording of the FCI regarding flight pay. Normally the EK lawyer types are onto these things like a heyena after a smelly bone. The original letter from AAR stated:
Introduction of hourly Flying Pay – Flying pay will be paid for all actual block hours commencing from “1 hour” up to the level of “Productivity Pay Threshold”
The FCI issued to ammend the FOM says:
• General
◊ Hourly Flying Pay is based on scheduled block hours and is applicable up to the thresholds detailed below.
Is this a typo or yet another subtlle "cost neutral" change. I defy anyone to be able to conduct JFK-HAM within the scheduled block time. Oh well wasn't going to but will just have to fly faster.

[PITA]

I have not as yet seen this FCI. When was it put out?

[Backwater]

A few days ago.
There was always going to be a conflict with flying hours based on ACTUAL and productivity based on scheduled. So they solved the problem in a manner most cost effective to the company...
I think the solution is to fly faster and f*** the cost index. I'm tired of being robbed by these w******s.
BTW my bright idea for the month - Halve the personnel numbers in HR.

[777SandMan]

Most of the drivers that I have had the pleasure to operate, enjoy EK - with some normal gripes and moans about the traffic, construction etc etc. Some who came here had very little choice e.g. Varig drivers who lost all off their pension fund. They did not have much of a choice- get a job and get one fast!

Some came here to operate new machines, fly a varied and exciting route structure, and to get away from a country rive with violence. I feel sorry for individuals from first world countries who were forced to come to the sandpit due to chapter 11, bankruptcies etc. Must be hell to work for EK when you do not want to be here, but are forced to work and stay here because of external factors.

I want to be here, I enjoy the aircraft, I enjoy the routes - and YES. I will come again!:D

[yoyonow]

Yes........ Having been amused and frustrated by some of the ramblings in this thread, my reasons for being content follow:

IMHO we are all running away from something, no one has a blissful life at home and one day decides to leave and relocate to the desert. I arrived looking to improve my job, lifestyle and income. All have been achieved in the first 5 years.

Yes it is only 5 years and my friends who have been here considerably longer, those that have not already left, are mostly looking for a way out. T&Cs have been reduced and far more importantly they have seen their lifestyle decline.

The roads are a death trap and will remain so despite a reduction in traffic jams as the new infrastructure comes on line.

With regard to the 1000 hour debate, sadly I expect that it may well be used as a target by the schedulers. However, that is irrelevant as a professional pilot I will work for the company to the best of my ability. If I deem that I am unable to work safely due to fatigue or any other reason then I will not go to work if I have done 500 hours or 1000.

The business has changed considerably over the last decade. My lifestyle and income could not be matched at home. That said, this will never be home and when I feel that the balance has changed I will look for something else. Unlike some on this thread, I do not mean to patronise or imbue others with having a less valuable viewpoint because of there country of birth. Residing in Dubai and working for EK is a personal choice. A choice that I am happy with at the moment.

[ruserious]

IMHO we are all running away from something Speak for yourself, utter cr*p from my point of view
T&Cs have been reduced Amen to that
The roads are a death trap and will remain so despite a reduction in traffic jams as the new infrastructure comes on line.
Traffic will never improve, it never does and never will
With regard to the 1000 hour debate, sadly I expect that it may well be used as a target by the schedulers 1000 hours is unlikely
My lifestyle and income could not be matched at home. Maybe not income, just maybe, but lifestyle would be a lot better

[Remove Status]

ruserious, ...relax Dude.

[ruserious]

ruserious, ...relax Dude.
Was nearly asleep when I wrote that, how much more relaxed do you need me :}