Instrument Training and Rating

[Nk8047]

Helllo ppruners ,i am currently working for my faa meir (as part of my time building for the Jar licenses ),before i call Caa i wanted to check here first ,according to my instructor , the head of training in my school and off course the Fars i can log the time as PIC during my instrument training but i dont know what will the caa think when they see pic/ifr in a logbook of a non intrument qualified pilot, i dont really care if they just consider it as total and not pic but i am just worried if they dont give me any credit for it Thanks in advance for any answers/suggestion

[yippipie]

Who does IR training at Prestwick?

Any comments or recommendations, please?

Pip.

[yippipie]

Nobody?:hmm:

[LFS]

There used to be an outfit called Prestwick Flight Centre run by an ex CAA Examiner. Not sure if they are still operating but the website doesnt appear to be working.

[BlueRobin]

Absolutely no one. I think Tayflite are the only people who offer IR training in Scotland?

[badboy raggamuffin]

Hi all, am due to start my CPL/IR training in the UK in Jan, however am considering doing my IR first, as the Jan weather will I think delay the CPL training somewhat.

I have however been advised against this by the flight school im off to, as they reckon that the IR is too much of a step up from the PPL, ie that doing the CPL first better prepares you for the IR.
What do the PPRUNE massive think of this?

Has anybody out there done their IR before their CPL, if so how did it go? did you find it difficult and what are the advantages/ disadvantages of doing each one before the other one?

I know their is a thread on this already, have tried using the search facility but its a load of crap really isnt it.

Cheers for any help,

The baddest raggamuffin in town.

[DeltaSix]

Hi there,

If you are referring to the actual flight training for IR, do your CPL first.
You need X-country time anyway for both CPL and IR and building your hours towards CPL will give you the necessary experience and credits for the IR when you decide to do it. Keep in mind that IFR is not an easy thing to do and cannot be hurried. You need the hours.

Mind you, you have to study for the IR exam anyway so if you have done your CPL exams already, then study your IR while you build up your hours.

Not unless of course you have hundreds of hours already, then do IR.


Good luck

D6

[npasque]

i somewhat agree with that. I am sure you are aware that you can obtain an IR on your PPL. If you have your PPL already, why not do it? However, what you learn (experience wise) on your CPL cross country flights is priceless.. trust me!!!

I would recommend gaining the CPL first, however as the person above said, think about taking the irex exam now. It is extremely hard, so start studying!!! Then get your CPL and start doing some sim work!

good luck

[Sky Wave]

I did my IR first because like you I started my training in the winter. I started in December and passed my IR in January, my intention was to do the CPL in the May, however I ended up doing it straight after my IR in February.

I didn't find any problems doing my IR first and the CPL is an absolute breeze after you've done the IR.

I think you may do less hours by doing the IR first (ready to get shot down here). I did a 55 hours IR and 15 Hours CPL course whilst if you do it the other way round I think it's 25 hours minimum for the CPL and 50 hours minimum for the IR.

The thing to be cautious of with a winter IR is icing. If you get lots of cold days with cloud at 3000ft upwards you may be sat on the ground wishing you were doing your CPL, unless of course the aircraft you are learning in has TKS!

SW

[command]

hi badboy
I would strongly recommend doing your CPL before your CIR, there are a few reasons for this. Firstly the single pilot IFR is probably the most demanding flying that you will do, you really need to be up to speed with it all, so doing your CPL first will help you to consolidate your cockpit management skills and your basic nav (time, speed, dist etc...).Also, as stated on one of the other posts you need the command time too. I did my CIR is australia and, for memory, you need 50 hrs command cross country, 5 hrs command at night, and i cant quite remember how much IF time is required.I'm not sure what the requirements are in the UK but i'm sure that they will be roughly the same as the aus requirements.

I wouldnt worry too much about the WX mate thats just aviation and it would be good practice for you to just be prepared to handle the WX whatever it may be and whether you are IFR or VFR.

I reccomend CPL first Badboy. Good Luck!

[Hour Builder]

D6 and npasque why are you assuming he is talking about the FAA CPL and IR.
irex exam...is an FAA thing. Once you have you JAR ATPL (A) theory, there are no more exams to do in the UK.
I would probably recommend CPL first then IR, but I haven't done either in the UK yet. I have done my FAA IR and really enjoyed it.
I will probably convery my FAA IR to a JAR IR first though, as the CPL course is reduced by 10 hours if you do IR first, whereas the IR course is only reduced by 5 hours if you do CPL course first. :ok:
HB

[MIKECR]

I started my MEIR recently and am planning to do the CPL after. The school i am at suggests doing it this way. During the last 2 weeks they have only been doing IR training as the weather has been crap for CPL. The IR is hard work so far but not impossible. Everything is done at a reasonable pace and is taken from a "back to basics" from the start of the course. Im assuming you've done your ATPL's?? If you have the hours requirements then start with the IR. Start with the CPL and you'll still be at it for months with the weather. You can also knock off 10 hours of cpl training if you do IR first.

[SILENT_BADGER]

I think you'll do OK either way. All other things being equal there is a sort of progression from PPL via CPL to IR in that your flying becomes more precise and professional.

Circumstances dictated that I actually did my IR first during late summer and it felt a bit odd after getting comfortable with IFR and feeling thats how most commercial flights are conducted to then go back to VFR and start looking for railway lines and feeling like I was a weekend warrior again. But thats just an observation, the only aggravation was that I kept having to axe CPL flights due to IMC now that it was October whereas IR flights could go ahead - so I had a lot of sitting around cursing the weather.

So seeing as you have the bad weather now and good weather to follow (in theory anyway) then I think you'd probably be quite smart to get your IR done rather than sit around on cloudy days.

[badboy raggamuffin]

Cheers for the replies people.

No thanks however to the moderators, who have burried my question in a thread named "Me and IR" questions, thus meaning I will get a fraction of the advice that I might have got had it been left as an individual topic. Why have they started to do this kind of thing? The order of CPL and IR is a significant issue for any one doing commercial training, surely this, and indeed other IR related topics are worth of individual threads, rather than being all lumped in together. By continuing to merge topics in this way the modulators are doing a great disservice to the PPRUNE community.:ugh:

For those who have got the wrong end of the stick, I am doing JAR training, and have taken and passed all the relevant exams. I am just coming to the end of my hours buliding in the US and will by Jan have sufficient hours (and a multi rating) to start either course.
I would still like to hear from more people who have taken their JAR IR first, was it hard, how did it go etc? Couldnt give a monkeys about the FAA one to be honest.

Also, is there anything to stop you from doing both at the same time, ie doing the CPL stuff on good weather days, and the IR on bad ones. I dont think there is, has any body done this?

Cheers,

The baddest raggamuffin in town.

[Sky Wave]

Scroggs

This thread has got very confusing since it has been merged. Is it possible to unmerge it and return the "IR before CPL" thread to a standalone thread or has it passed V1 / PNR now?

Thanks

SW

[scroggs]

Your wishes are my command - occasionally!

Scroggs

[Dan 98]

Hi badboy raggermuffin,

I finished my training in June of this year. I did the IR first. There were a few reasons / advantages for this.

1:The school i attended advocated this, but i could have done the CPL first if i had wanted to, I am glad I didn't in hind sight.

2: Doing the IR first means you get 55hrs rather than the shorter 50hrs if you do the CPL first, so first advantage you get an extra 5hrs of instrument flying / Multi time over VFR flying following a line on a map.

3:In my opinion the CPL would not have helped me pass my IR, they are totally different styles of flying, IR head in cockpit / CPL head very much out of the cockpit!
The biggest reason I think so many go for the CPL first is that just the word IR sends shivers of fear down most peoples backs, the CPL is very much in peoples comfort zones being an advanced PPL, so it is only natural to pick the easier of the two first.

4:If you do the CPL first it is an 25hr course, rather than the shorter more sensible 15hrs if you have passed the IR. 25hrs is a total overkill IF your general flying is upto speed, you will be ready for test after 10-12hrs, so if doing the 25hr course you can look forward to another 13-15hrs of Nav Ex's and needing (hoping) for good VFR weather, rather than 3-5hrs if you have the IR under your belt.

5: Doing the IR first will certainly make your flying more accurate, build your confidence as you have the harder of the 2 tests out of the way, thereby making the CPL easier in my opinion, that is not to say that the CPL is easy, just easier than the IR. It was also great to go back to looking out of the window after not seeing anything for 6-7 weeks!! I actually quite enjoyed my CPL after the IR, but it really would have been a drag doing 25hrs, honestly.

6:If like you I was starting in Jan I would without doubt do my IR first, and hope for the better weather in late Feb / early March, knowing I only needed 15hrs of good VFR which can still take a while even in Summer. Mine took 3.5 weeks in May / June!!

Hope that helps you, I feel that is an honest accurate account of my experience. Dont get too mentally tied up in the difficulty of the IR, it is hard no question, but I found most of my fear was due to a lack of knowledge of what was involved, once you have done each section in the sim, all you have to do is put it all together. It isn't as bad as you maybe think it is, trust me!!
Cheers
Dan

[Airbus38]

Hi Dan, interesting read.

Just wondered if you would have appreciated some further ME time while VFR or not (ie. if the CPL were done first)?
A38

[MIKECR]

Dan,

The only thing I'd add would be that doing the multi rating before starting IR might be an advantage. Im finding myself having to put too much effort into flying the aeroplane at the moment, which detracts from concentrating on the IFR stuff. If I was more confident with the aeroplane then things would be much better. Learning multi at the same time as IR is hard going, hopefuly it will get easier though. Once I can rattle of all the checks and drills without having to think about them then i might crack things. Its a steap learning curve, that just get steeper every day!

[Dan 98]

MikeCR / Airbus38,
I did my Multi first, forgot to say that, about 6hrs and I to felt like it was a massive learning curve with things happening very fast, 2 engines to worry about, MAP & RPM etc..... But suddenly it does get easier. I always remember trying to do my fist circuit on my PPL in a C152 trying to get all the checks in, brain overload I seem to remember, then suddenly it just came.
I found learning the checklist on my Multi really helped, I would also sit in the sim doing touch drills when it was not in use, it really freed up capacity letting me concentrate on flying the plane, rather than trying to remember the checklist!!
The simple truth is that it is a steep learning curve who ever you are, I still stand though that 25hrs of VFR Nav Ex's won't really make it any easier (in my opinion). Hard work, knowing the check list of pat, more hard work, it will all come together...
Cheers
Dan

[Sky Wave]

Thanks for un-merging scroggs.

I agree with everything Dan has said and I also did my MEP prior to starting my IR. I only did about an hours P1 in the multi as it's virtually impossible to rent one as a fresh MEP pilot.

SW

[BlueRobin]

A MEP issue to throw into the cooking pot and brew, purely a cost factor.

If your intended route is a Multi-CPL followed by a Multi-IR, some of those schools that do CPL first will combine the CPL with the MEP, so you save a bit of cash having only one test. See LASORS D1.2

However going the IR route first I believe means you would have to do the MEP separately.

[Bandit650]

Well, I've decided to do the ME first after reading this and similar threads in recent days. Thanks to Dan98 for your notes.

Next question...where?. I'm doing the ATPL ground at present, so am not in a mad rush to do it...but the question is do I do it at a prof pilot training FTO or any PPL FTO in my vicinity? would there be a subtle but important difference in the training??? Should I just stick with one FTO for the whole ME/IR/CPL/MCC? or am I splitting hairs?

[Hufty]

I did the IR first too - I don't really think it made any difference - you do a bit of stuff under the hood on your CPL, but not enough to be of help in your IR that's for sure. The Seneca was faster etc. but I found it a really stable platform and yes it has two engines etc, but it wasn't that much more to manage than a Piper Warrior really once you'd got used to the power settings etc. and remember which levers to move and when!

The best thing for me was getting the IR out of the way first - it was the one I worried about most, so it gave my confidence a real boost when I started the CPL.

If you have an IMC rating already it helps too...

[Bandit650]

If you have an IMC rating already it helps too...

Am going off topic a bit - pls forgive me: I used to have an IMC...and I realised it may be handy to get back before doing the IR later in the year - so I called CabAir at Blackbushe to arrange some time to get it revalidated (7.5hrs I believe)...they told me that they "have no capacity to take on new IMC work until well into the new year":ugh:!!! FTOs turning down customers due lack of capacity....mmmm.

Plenty more FTO's in the sea I suppose.

[Dan 98]

Bandit650,
Definitely do all your commercial training at one school.
http://www.b-f-c.co.uk/
cannot recommend them enough. You will do the MEP first but not the test, you will do 6hrs, then do your IR, with the Multi test afterwards with some 55hrs under your belt, as someone else said the MEP is a bit of a wierd one as no one would rent you a Seneca with those hours!!! Then with all that done onto the CPL, 15hrs, all done go home!
I believe Stapleford is pretty good as well which may be nearer to where you currently reside.
All the best
Dan

[Bandit650]

Cheers again Dan98. Will have a close look at both FTO's you mention....very useful to know it is wise to stick to one place though.

[Hufty]

I wouldn't bother getting your IMC rating revalidated if I were you - a bit of practice with the foggles on and a safety pilot should be all you need to get you back into it. If I were you I would work on some NDB tracking, a couple of holds and some procedural stuff. An instrument trainer like RANT or MS flightsim represents great value for money too...

[Bandit650]

I've spent far to much time in front of MS FlightSim as it is (been flying it since 1987! ...but there again I did originally get the IMC in min hrs thanks to it), so dont need any more encouragement to turn it on when I should be heads down in atpl PrincipalsOfFlight chapter 2.:ugh:!!
Good point though - thanks

[IDENTING]

Its been a while since I did one of these. I can't remember the rule of thumb for working out the time for the out bound leg, or how to work out the drift to apply before times'ing it by 3.
Say your hold takes 3mins 30secs, do you just shorten the out bound by dividing the 30secs by 3 and taking the answer off the 1min leg?

My memory fails me and I've forgotten the techniques I learnt in those dark times...:sad:

[Deano777]

Outbound leg timed from the start of the abeam is 1 minute +/- wind, at 1 second per head/tailwind component, and the drift is 2 x drift angle if the wind is within 60 deg of outbound, if it's outside 60 deg it's 3 x drift up to a maximum of 30 degrees.

hope this helps

Dean

[IDENTING]

Cheers Deano, that does help.

I think its the clock method for working out the wind component in the first place is it not? i.e wind 30deg off out bound leg = 1/2 the drift or something?
Say for example the outbound leg is 270deg and the wind is 310/20.
Its this method for working out drift angle and time that I'm having trouble with.

[Deano777]

Identing

Just work out the max drift to start with, if you are in a 120kt plane like the Seneca (at slow cruise) then use ½ the wind speed for max drift regardless of wind, so in an example let's say the wind is 310/40, the max drift is 20kts, and yes use the clock code to determine drift angle, for the clock code obviously

15 deg is ¼ max drift (so 5kts)
20 deg is 1/3 max drift (so 7kts)
30 deg is ½ max drift (so 10kts)
40 deg is 2/3 max drift (so 14kts)
45 deg is ¾ max drift (so 15kts)
50 deg is 5/6 max drift (so about 18kts)
60 deg is all of max drift.

Wind is 40 deg off outbound heading, so we are going to use 2/3 max drift, so that's 14kts, our heading outbound is going to be 2 x the drift because the wind is within 60 deg off outbound track, so that's 28kts into wind giving us a heading of 298, and as you can see this gives us a heading that is pretty much directly into wind now, so as it's 40kts we will go outbound for 1:45 secs, why the extra 5 seconds? well the wind given is only the forecast wind, it maybe 50kts, always best to over estimate. so we fly outbound on a heading of 298 for 1:45 then turn inbound.

Another example, outbound track is 270 deg, forecast wind is 340/30, so straight away max drift is 15kts, wind is 70 deg off outbound track so we use 3 x drift, as wind is 70 deg off we have all max drift as our correction, so 3 x 15kts = 45 deg into wind, but we are limited to 30 deg, so heading outbound is 270 + 30 = 300deg, and we'll go outbound for 1:35.

I hope this makes sense

Dean

[IDENTING]

Dean, thats brilliant and exactly what I was I looking for.
I no longer have all the notes from the IR and needed the nogin a flogin.
Cheers and thanks again!

[Deano777]

No problem at all, a pleasure :)

[FlyingForFun]

In addition to Deano's answers:
Say your hold takes 3mins 30secs, do you just shorten the out bound by dividing the 30secs by 3 and taking the answer off the 1min leg?
No, divide the 30 secs (i.e. the amount over the 3 minutes) by 2, not by 3. (The assumption being made is that adding a second to the outbound leg will also affect the inbound leg by approx one second, but will not affect the time in the turns.)

But the key thing to remember here is that all the planning you do for the hold is just aimed at getting you onto the inbound correctly. There are dozens of different methods, some of which involve an immense amount of work for very little gain. But as long as you manage to get yourself onto the inbound leg reasonably successfully (and understand the ADF needle well enough to correct quickly and accurately when - not if - it doesn't work out), all the planning really amounts to nothing.

FFF
---------------

[IDENTING]

Cheers FFF,
that helps too, its all very slowly starting to come back to me. I just needed a quick rule of thumb to work it out in the air. There's no point in working it out thoroughly on the ground to find out 2 hrs later near the end of the flight the wind has totally changed! I used to be really anoyed with myself if I couldn't get to within +- 5secs of 3mins untill I realised the IR examiners really couldn't give a s--t as long as it was more or less right.:rolleyes:

[Maude Charlee]

Don't worry about it.

You might end up flying a Dash 8 Q400 and the FMS can't work out the hold either. CAA don't seem to mind - they certified it after all. :}

[ritsaartk]

Some VOR approaches have the letter C behind the title like the Scottsdale VOR Charlie approach, I've noticed this in more approach plates, what does this stand for?

regards,
RitsaartK

[chrisbl]

It means that the approach is not to a specific runway, hence the letter. The approach will end with a circle to land.

Have a look at the approach plate a bit more closely at the bottom strip and compare it with say a plate that has a runway number.

The letter C means there there is also an A & B approach too.

[sam34]

hello everyone!

so the last post dates of december 6...

today, I would like to know if other students did their IR before the CPL ?
what is your impressions ?
I hesitate because I know that many FTO take this way, IR then CPL. I do not know why exactly... is it cheaper for them ??


thanks.

[sam34]

anobody else ?

[captain_rossco]

Might have something to do with the CPL hour reduction, I believe you do (or can, subject to ability) a 15 hour CPL, if you do it post IR. It's covered (ish) on the Bristol Flying Centre Website. Popped in there a month or so ago and was massively impressed with the chap's proffessionalism.


Regards

Rossco

[RoyHudd]

"The Seneca was faster etc. but I found it a really stable platform and yes it has two engines etc, but it wasn't that much more to manage than a Piper Warrior really once you'd got used to the power settings etc. and remember "



Great respect Hufty;:ok: I and others found it a wobbly beast at the best of times! Even the A320 in Direct Law is a comfier proposition, handling-wise.

[yippipie]

What is the 'technically correct' method to turn acutely, at an enroute beacon?

I was taught, to turn onto a parallel track, time for 1 min (from abeam), then intercept.

However, I've discovered that some are initiating the turn at 2 miles prior, then intercepting, effectively cutting the corner...

Cheers,

Pip.

[Blinkz]

I've always cut the corner to get straight onto the outbound track, although I don't know if this is the proper way, I'm pretty certain it is. It certainly wasn't commented on when I did it this way in my IR. Plus its how airliner autopilots fly the turns as well. I've never heard of the method you use and it seems a little pointless, I can't see the benefit of doing it that way?

[FlyingForFun]

I don't think there is a "correct" way of doing it. The main thing is to understand what you are doing and why - and as long as you understand it, any (sensible) method should be fine.

As Blinkz says, an autopilot will probably cut the corner, and a modern GPS will prompt you to turn at such a time as to cut the corner. And, with both autopilots and GPS being allowed on IR tests now, this might create a good argument for doing it this way - but that's not to suggest that any other way is "wrong".

FFF
----------------

[littco]

Remember also the wind, if you have a head wind component you can leave it later to turn onto the new course, a tail wind component you must turn early to allow for the wind to blow you onto track.

As you have to turn at rate 1, a turn with a tail wind will be wider than a head wind turn and therefore you must allow for this.

[yippipie]

Thanks for all your views and replies. The most obvious advantage of the long way, is more accurate timing (I don't bother with the AP/GPS). Much depends IMO on the angle and prevailing cond's. I'll play it by ear. Nice to know it's OK to cut the corner if I need to :) .

[camlobe]

Hi folks. Hope someone can help.

I'm looking for a reputable school to do my Initial IR. Problem is I live in North Wales and don't fancy travelling hundreds of miles there and back. As well as the travel aspect, I am looking for a place that hasn't got a queue for six months before I can get started. A half-way decent aircraft would also help.

Any decent suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

camlobe

[potkettleblack]

You can go (within limits) just about anywhere for the IR, but that won't necessarily get you quality. The good schools generally have queues because people want to get quality training with experienced instructors. They also might want a certain school on their CV to assist with job prospects. Some instructors might also be airline pilots who can facilitate in the job hunt if you meet the standard. Personally I would pick a good one and wait. Use the waiting time to get your skills up to speed. Talk to the school you have in mind and find out what bits of the IR syllabus most students struggle with and go bash some hours in your trusty C152 honing those skills so you hit the ground running. Get their SOP's and know them backwards, get their a/c checklists and know them backwards to along with the relevant POH etc. Find out if they use Jepps or Aerads and know them inside out. Read the AIP and find out all about DOC's and approach bans and RVR's and all that sexy Air Law stuff that you thought you would never need after you had done your ATPL theory exams. Get a copy of RANT or MS Flight Sim and practice NDB and VOR tracking until you can do it with your eyes closed.

Not only will you save some money (hopefully) it will all set you in good stead for later when Mr Airline asks you a whole bunch of technical questions about the mighty Duchess/Seneca/Diamond.

[bluepeely]

Camlobe, try ravenair @ Liverpool Airport. Decent set up and not too far from North Wales, unless you dont like tunnels under rivers :bored:

[captainyonder]

Question on behalf of a friend who has been flying on a SEIR over the winter and now wants to do her MEP, MEIR and CPL. What does she have to do to convert her SEIR to a MEIR?

[potkettleblack]

Your friend should download a copy of LASORS. Its the bible for anything licensing wise and is a much better source of reference than an anonymous website forum for anything that is going to involve passing lots of cash over. It can be downloaded from the CAA website. Then they should go to Section E page 4 to find out what is involved.

[captainyonder]

She doesn't have a computer thus me posting on here on her behalf. Many thanks all the same.

[Pub User]

She'll have to buy a copy then, or go online at her local library.

[captainyonder]

I'm feeling generous, I've downloaded it and am printing the relavent sections out as we speak. Many thanks for your help chaps.

[African Drunk]

AFT exeter or BFC both very good for initial IR.

[EGCC4284]

Get in touch with Craig Padfield at Ravenair.

[skyhigher]

Hey folks,

would anyone know if hours of IR training at one JAA school can be carried over to another school if you change training schools?

thanks...

[Linda Mollison]

Yes, it is possible. The school to which you are transferring has to get the CAA's approval to finish your training and either you, or the new school, has to get copies of your training records.

Linda

[ladybird380]

Hi girls and boys,

I've tried to searched pprune,but couldn't find the right answer for my qnsss.

We all know JAA IR training is harder than FAA IR (so they say),more expensive than FAA IR(obvious),we can have more multi time doing FAA IR(no sim used usually over there),it's cheaper to live in the States,etc..

So,why some people still choose to do it in the UK?(apart from millioners)Is it so important to do it in the UK?When we are looking for a job,does an airline care about ME time or FAA/JAA IR?How difficult to learn JAA IR procedures and for some extent,RT procedures during conversion to JAA?:ugh:

Please someone help me here,i am going crazy!!!!!!!
:confused:

[SD.]

"JAR IR = difficulty 10
FAA IR = difficulty 2
UK IMC = difficulty 1"

I do hope your post was a fishing exercise to get some bites? :=

[ITFC1]

Well i nearly took the bait, well said SD

[helicopter-redeye]

Like it says, its a quote from Sir Alan Sugar ("Your fired") and I think it was in the Sunday Times about 3 weeks ago. Any complaints you can find him down the BBC building firing people.

h-r;)

[ITFC1]

Good job i dont watch his show then, maybe he needs firing.

HR is right though, if you want to stay here in the UK then JAA is the way to go, i did my FAA initially a few years back, but got a job over here on my FAA, and now converted. Suppose mine was easier as i was flying most days of the week into airports around UK, so the only thing i had to learn was how to fly a piston twin again. Dont forget the 2-3 hour oral with the FAA IR.

Depends really on what you want to do with it, money, time to spend 4-6 weeks in the US etc.

[smith]

If you started the IR in Spain but did not complete, is it possible to complete the IR in the UK and gain some credit for the training in Spain as it is a JAA state? I will be able to provide the training records from Spain obviously.

[ladybird380]

Thanks ITFC,

I'll be flying in Europe,don't have to stay in the UK though since i have a dual citizenship from another JAA state.

Learning to fly IR in US airspace then converting it in Europe doesn't sound logical,i agree.However,i want to know if training here in England(somewhere like Bristol Flying Center)is going to put me front of the other applicants when i look for a job or having 50-60 ME time looks better?

Cheers:)

[noctilucent cloud]

Instrument Rating - lapsed, over seven years...

I hold a UK CPL, 500+ multi-crew, class 1 etc, and have a prospective position, sub 5700kg (Murphy's Law after all these years :} ).

Do I have to attend another complete initial IR course (circa £12-15k), or is it a matter of pre-test assessment by an FTO &/or CAA, to renew?

Since I don't need an ATPL, do I have to renew the fATPL exams again, just to renew/hold the IR?

NC.

[garywoodrow]

hi, i tried searching but couldnt find the answer. Is it possible to start the IR course after doing a PPL and count the hours towards what is required to begin CPL training? Would this save money? or is it a bad idea?

Regards,
Gary Woodrow