Buying a jet

[Gnote]

Hello, my company is planning to add a light jet to its fleet of piston twins. We initially had our sights set on the Citation 2 SP due to single pilot operation and purchase costs (under 5 million U.S.) Does anyone know of other planes that can match or beat the citation in those terms as well as performance? Any feedback on the Citation 2 would be appreciated.

[drop bags bar]

Go with a used Lear 31 not an "A" a straight standard 31 and you'll have plenty of cash left over. The Lear is faster has better field performance can go over the weather and has good old TFE 731s strapped on the back. Might be a bit smaller but not by much.


[This message has been edited by drop bags bar (edited 27 May 2001).]

[Hwel]

I'd buy the 2SP, dead simple to fly, really hard to kill yourself in, cheap(ish) to operate. The lears are little sports cars, the Citations much more comfy inside.

[drop bags bar]

The 31 is a whole new breed of Lear, nice wing, Low Vrefs/ V1/V2s. The 31 unlike the "bad" old Lears that gave Learjets the reputation that they require super human pilots to fly: does not require a Yawdamper for dispatch (the old ones required 2 yaw dampers) does not even have a stick puller a simple stick shaker is all that she's got.

The CII is a thirsty beast by comparison http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/party/beerchug.gif

[This message has been edited by drop bags bar (edited 27 May 2001).]

[F900B]

Ok

Lear 31 Vs C/II
Price $3.1-5.8m $2.6-2.9m
Range 1,225nm 1420nm
Speed 456kts 386kts
Mx Alt 51,000ft 43,000ft
DOC/hr $898 $852
Annual
fixedcosts $260,000 $278,000
Cabin height 4.3 ft 4.8ft
Cabin lenght 16ft 12.9ft

Any else you want to know. ?

Lear 31 is a good airplane BUT Citation II is a better buy especially when you want to sell it, it will sell alot quicker than a
L-31, and cheaper to run. Really all depends on how many hrs you would be flying a yr

Other aircraft under $5 Million

Beech jet 400A
Citation jet 1 and 2
Citation V
Falcon 10/100
IAI Westwind I/II

If you need any help please let me know. I can save you alot of money especially buying a Corporate aircraft.

[drop bags bar]

The Numbers:

Direct cost per N.M.

Beechjet 400A: $1.7
CII/ CIISP: $1.9
C SII: $1.8
Falcon 10: $1.95
Learjet 31 $1.74
Westwind: $2.4

The tables I have Jan 2001 factor in fuel at $2.30/ Gal(and what are we looking at today with the almost daily hikes?) Now the CII uses a fair bit more gas than the 31 so Cheaper to run???

Cabin size/ (volume):

Beechjet 400A: 305
CII/ CIISP: 263
C SII: 263
Falcon 10: 251
Learjet 31 268
Westwind: 323

Easier to sell: I can't comment 900A you seem to be a broker and therefore more intune with the actual numbers but does it just seem like Citations sell faster because there are so many more CIIs for sale (120 vs 25) both fleets have +/- 14% of their numers on the market. I don't know just my 2cents.



[This message has been edited by drop bags bar (edited 28 May 2001).]

[Flight Safety]

Gnote, I got an e-mail from a very nice gentleman the other day who pointed me to a website that you might find interesting.

www.conklindd.com (http://www.conklindd.com)

They specialize in the cost accounting side of acquiring and operating aircraft, including biz jets. They have a couple of interesting programs containing operational cost data for most popular aircraft (I was frankly surprised at some of the unusual types they include like S-70s and L100-30s). The programs are pretty reasonable in cost, given the amount of research that must have been required to get the operational cost data on the various types that are included.

They also have a pretty interesting book describing all the contract, leasing, and other cost aspects of acquiring and operating an aircraft. It looked interesting enough that I just ordered it.


------------------
Safe flying to you...

[F900B]

Drop bags bar,

First of not a broker, work for a private bank, I lease and finance Commercial and Corporate jets.

Second,

Citation IIs are cheaper as far as the over all cost, like Annual Fixed costs, Annual Operating Budget etc. Like i said in my first post its depends on your mission requirments, how far you fly, how many hrs you fly per yr.

Third,

Citation II has P & W JT 15D-4 Engines, so therefore going to burn more fuel burn than on a L31 with newer Engines (TFE 731-2-3B)

I believe the fuel burn per hr on the Citation II is 168 and on the Lear 31 is
117.

Average days on market for the Citation II is 245
And for the Lear 31 320 days

I have AMSAT and JETNET updated daliy

Currently on the market there is 100 Citation IIs for sale (More selection)

10 Lear 31s on the market

As you know may know Citations IIs started to be delivered in 1978
Lear 31s 1988.

[Foxxy]

Gnote

No lears are certified Single pilot, so judging by your initial post a waste of time! also the Cit II sp is a good allround machine that wont let you down.

We operate a 1sp and a 2sp.

Why dont you buy ours?

[montfort]

Lear 31/ no fuel=no range

[Office Update]

Gnote... all the experts are forgetting that 8.33 spacing is not cheap and that RVSM will be matter of fact over most of the world soon, kits for older aircraft like Citations will be circa $50-80k USD, for a Lear jet with no RVSM, look at over $350,000 USD if your lucky.
For the best oil on RVSM for older aircraft contact Ed Gaines in the USA.

[email protected]