alaea a disgrace

[chemical alli]

so the new exec is performing well(sarcastic)it has been to the commision on a few occasions with not one win.when will the boys of bexley actually rally the troops for a good old fashioned rowers lunch?.we are out of an eba, time for some protected bargaing rules of engagement to make the likes of m,gd and dc realise that so few can take on so many.if the union, that we the members form had any balls o/t bans would be rife,8hr shifts compulsory,no higher duties,snag the hell out of everything and basically work so safe that the aircraft couldnt be moved without the reqd wonder wands,horns,wing walkers pic cockpit operators and cat 4 tug drivers .along with the requirement for safety cones entry/exit procedures wing grip its amazing i can get out of bed without hurting myself.

SO TO THE ALAEA SHOW SOME B:mad: LLS YOU LIMP WRISTED WANNA BE BUSH LAWYERS,BEFORE YOU LOOSE THE MONEY FROM THE WORKERS WHO PAY YOUR WAY

[mainwheel]

Maybe time for a new direction is needed.

Pay the money and get someone like James Strong to run it.

Get experienced and moreso professional legal instruction.

[Anulus Filler]

I personally think the current ALAEA team have done a sh!tload more in the

short period of time that they have represented us than in all those years

under the previous regime. OK, so they've lost a few unwinnable cases in the

IRC. Big deal:} . At least they're having a go and learning from the

experience. Just go to their website and there's plenty of information being

dished out. Ali, as for having the balls to call O/T bans or any sort of

industrial action, forget it. They can't and they wont.:oh: It's up to us as

brothers to carry these things out. If you don't like it,

vote labour at the next fed election. Meanwhile, sit back, relax and enjoy the

Qantas service. (and just watch those wonderful guys fly in to Perth):ok:

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

it is April now,EBA has been out since DEC 06,time foe action

[No SAR No Details]

The weakest link in the association is the pissweek lames tha wont work to company procedures yet expect th eassociation to be the panacea of all their problems and be industrially strong, but wont go out out of their way to make a difference.

[domo]

have to agree with no sar
the guys bitch and winge but they still roll up to do 36 hours plus overtime if they can get it. they want someone else to take all the hits and them to risk nothing

I hate to say it but our biggest enemy is ourselfs

[NAS1801]

SO TO THE ALAEA SHOW SOME B LLS YOU LIMP WRISTED WANNA BE BUSH LAWYERS,BEFORE YOU LOOSE THE MONEY FROM THE WORKERS WHO PAY YOUR WAY Mr Ali, are you aware that a union is only as good as its members? In addition, are you aware of the current "work choices" legislation?? Please educate yourself before posting here.

[splashman]

Alli,

Your post deserves contempt, not only are you unaware of the current IR laws, you post to divide.
Hypothetically. If the ALAEA were to implement industrial action agains't a AIRC order, are you happy to cover not only the union fines but the individual fines ?.
I feel from your post it, you would do the typical 180 degrees and blast the union for wasting members subs.
Your a ****. !!!!!!!!!

[blow.n.gasket]

Join forces with AIPA.
The pilot's union appear to be standing up to them.:ouch:

[company_spy]

Mr Ali, yours is the typical bourgeois Qantas LAME position. What is the "Union" doing for me, rather than what action can I take to mainain integrity and strengthen the Unions position. Unions are not a "service" industry, like a car wash or a gardener.
I think others have covered the problem. Individuals need to stand up and do what is right, right for all their LAME brothers and sisters. We are our worst enemy. Now more than ever we all have to stop and think, look at the big picture before we accept the 10 pieces of silver. That trip to Perth, that trip O/S, acting duties.....
Gorilla warfare is at it's most effective when chaos and disruption reign.

[domo]

the word is guerrilla
im not fighting with primates rember planet of the apes

[dusty_dawg]

C'mon guys, it's time that we all start getting real. There is a valid point that the union is what you make it. But what is the ALAEA? It's a forum for disaffected souls which lacks the financial, industrial and political muscle to shape up against anyone, let alone the behemoth that is Qantas. Bitch, whinge, moan, gripe, a bit more bitching - where the hell does it get LAME's? The leadership of the ALAEA promised us all so much. What have we got? We got a federal secretary that went out of his way to destroy our public credibility by making completely unsubtantiated claimes about prisoners working on aircraft in Singapore. What's more, I've heard on the grapevine that senior Qantas management have now informed SP that he is persona non grata and they won't deal with the ALAEA beyond the level of junior HR/IR management (ie. underneath SB). What a way to go!! What a way to represent your members collective interests by locking yourself (and your entire Qantas membership) out of contact with the very people that make the decisions that affect our working lives!! Well done.:D I say we should nominate SP for next year's Darwin Awards. What a brilliant strategy. That's why the ALAEA is failing - because they have a bunch of well-intentioned but ultimately out-of-their-depth lugnuts boxing way above their weight. So much for the hardline negotiating timeframes as well. What was it - "we'll have this EBA licked in 5 weeks, or else Qantas had better watch out". What a load of bollocks. All it's done is demonstrated to Qantas that we don't have the guts to make a stand and to push hard during negotiations. Tough talk and no action. And that's not a criticism of LAME's - it's a failure of good leadership. We pay them (I should clarify that and say that I used to pay them) to lead - that means charting a course for members. Yes, it is important to get the views of members as well, but sometimes there needs to be a starting point and LAME's don't have it with the current ALAEA. Get out of the fantasy land that is Bexley.

[NAS1801]

We got a federal secretary that went out of his way to destroy our public credibility by making completely unsubtantiated claimes about prisoners working on aircraft in Singapore. Ask anyone, (and I don't just mean those working in Qantas), who have worked in Singapore. Ask them. They will tell you it is fact that illegal immigrants are used to clean aircraft. It is up to those people to come forward and back up the claims. The problem is, Qantas is too big and has too many expensive lawyers. Some proof would be nice... photographic, video, however, I have been informed by more than one person, that cameras are banned in the facilities in Singapore. Special permission must be sought before taking any photographs for work purposes only. I wonder why? You should be grateful that SP and the rest at Bexley is on YOUR side and not managements. It has been a long time coming. The union is what YOU make of it. Quit winging and get involved if you don't like it.

[dusty_dawg]

It's precisley because there was no proof that common sense would dictate that you exercise extreme caution about making those sorts of claims before you go off half-cocked and sprout them about publicly. It just demonstrates how utterly unprofessional that outfit is. Those bunch of yahoos made US look like the :mad: heads! If that's how you want to be portrayed, stay with the ALAEA. I don't, so I'm not.

[Redstone]

Oh please Dusty, I think you are being just a little precious there. I don't think "we" were made to look like dickheads at all. God forbid we should ever have a contrary position/opinion to management. I believe the assn does have proof, and you will notice the whole affair went very quiet all of a sudden. Perhaps leverage is being applied.

[dusty_dawg]

Redstone -

What leverage and where is it being applied? It was a typical shotgun approach.....spray it everywhere and hope some of it might find a target. The earlier point that was made about people "knowing for a fact" that prisoners were working on aircraft in Singapore but "were too afraid to speak out" only serves my point that we (LAME's generally and the ALAEA in particular) are not as strong as we might like to think we are. I've heard the rumours before as well, but I'm not the sort of idiot that would try to run a campaign on it before checking out the facts. Although I am not a member of the ALAEA any more, I have become a member of a union that does represent employees in the aviation industry. Obviously, that's my choice. I'm not anti-union, but I just don't think that the current ALAEA executive is up to the task. From my perspective, they're kids playing outside in the sandbox while the grown-ups are all talking about IR over coffees and tim-tams in the lounge room.

[splashman]

Oh Dusty,

Should the facts about prisoners be wrong, why hasn't QF taken the union to court?
Remember Cox saying that if indeed it did happen, the QF reps on the check are at fault as they are there to represent QF,
You ever worked in SIN and told a MRO that you cannot use these people on my company"s aircraft, as I suspect that they do not have the required AUS security clearance.... I believe the response would be:
You have signed and released your aircraft to my company, and we will do the work stated in our contract, regardless of whom you think we should employ as your company (QA) and CASA has deemed us fit to undertake said work.
Another ****, as was Alli

Seeking to divide and destroy

For the first time in many years my union subs are being put to good work! Good on ya exec!! Keep them on their toes.

[mahatmacoat]

NAS1801 your comment to Dusty Dawg -



I wonder why? You should be grateful that SP and the rest at Bexley is on YOUR side and not managements.



You imply that Dusty Dawg is also on our side. He is an AWU official so he is not on our side. He sat in a meeting at Avalon with the ALAEA and sided with management when the ALAEA were trying to progress member issues. AWU, come an join us, Australia's Weakest Union.

[NAS1801]

Point taken mahatma... I have kind of picked up on this reading the posts today. BACB30NN3K3..... how's it going brother? haha.... what you said in your post is exactly what I am getting at. Th current lot at Bexley may seem unprofessional when compared to the last lot but that's not supprising considering the last lot were in bed with Qantas.

[chemical alli]

well i love a good bagging, bring it on the for and against.but lets just look at the facts dec 31st was the end of the eba and where exactly are we now?in limbo.yes youre right we are only as strong as each other but by the way the so called negotions are going, and that is nowhere, why not just throw in the towel and accept it .for intelligent people we sure are f>,king idiots when it comes to voting and sticking together.as for the perth thread (not wanting to get off track)but try that sh*t on the eastern seaboard and it would collapse in five seconds.all due to the fact perth lames are paid more then their poorer cousins in the east and cost of living houseing etc is prohibitve to say the least.back to the alaea where is the direction thats what i am asking for.

lead and i will follow into the gates of hell.

nothing is so high as the daring of mortals we storm heaven itself in our folly (horace)

[NAS1801]

Desired effect? Your only purpose is to sh!t stir I presume?? Or is that a back-pedal now that you have found virtually no support from anyone posting in this thread? Incase you were not just sh!t stirring..... Not the first or last union to have stalled/drawn out negotiations. Get used to in Alli. You are never going to have smooth and speedy negotiations whilst the company is trying their best to screw you. (That is, unless you are in bed with them). From reading your posts, you are either a habitual whinger or used to reside at Bexly until a show of hands gave you the boot a yr or so back. Sounds like you are the sort who barks like mad until its time to show some solidarity and take action.... then you run off with your tail between your legs. (re: why not just throw in the towel and accept it)

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

a bit like a Sloane scab in the ame's dispute in 2001,vote for action then turn your back on your brothers and scab it

[chemical alli]

nas 1801 i have never run off with my tale between my legs,i have actually supported the alaea in numerous endeavors only to be lied to and told half truths,yes some off the posting is just plain sh*t stirring an aussie tradition.the last exec didnt listen to the members and agreed to certain clauses and conditions without consulting the membership,which yes we the members gave them that right, supposedly in our best interest.
as for support ask the members on how they think the new exec is performing.the response would probably be,yes alot more information coming through but if negotions are stalled what are we going to do to rectify the situation.
my retort to those who have disagreed is i hope you have the cohono"s to stand and be counted and i hope you bite is as good as your bark

[Redstone]

Just a few points, food for thought;

Hard to "negotiate" anything if the traffic is one way. EBA negotiations, especially in the early days were not productive as the company were not talking. They didn't engage at all. Their position seems to have softened (relatively) of late but the APA joker is the wild card. Would it be better to remain on the current EBA? The new EBA also had to be a condensed document, for some reason previous execs had negotiated EBA's that refered back to previous EBA's. That is now illegal under Work Choices.

I vividly remember attending EBA feedback meetings when the 11th hour response was on the table. The committee were at the stage where negotiations had reached the "line in the sand" and were seeking direction from members. They had reached as far as they could, and the response from the rank and file was "can't you go back and talk to them?"

Well that leads me into a comment Chemical Ali made, there ultimately comes a time where you MUST put your money where your mouth is. If you are not in it for the long haul, not standing shoulder to shoulder with your LAME brothers and sisters, then cop it sweet and shut your cake-hole. No whineing, no whinging, shut the f#*^ up and like it.

We all flippantly aknowledge the tactics used to divide and conquer, but if we do not unite towards a common goal we are all surely lost.

"It's the repetition of affirmations that leads to belief. And once that belief becomes a deep conviction, things begin to happen."
Muhammad Ali

[The Mr Fixit]

You did a good job Chem Ali brought all the wankas outta the closet ;)

The ALAEA Exec is fighting above their weight true enough but Roy Jones Jr took on all comers too and won :E

To the Exec
Dont back down ever, the members are behind you we just are afraid of the gutless scheming stupervision who cut our lunch at every opportunity are they too members ? maybe its time they were let go :mad:

To the AWU
Most of your members are true unionists but some of your seniors speak loudest near the managers door and quietest in his office. Few show true character as their leader though at AAES one has done a good job without poaching other union's members unlike the one at Avalon :ouch:

Re the EBA
Those who laugh last laugh longest, patience is a virtue :D workplace laws have boxed in even the ACTU cautious steps provide fewer pitfalls

Oh and by the way I was on the job and heard of the Changhi Prisoners my manager KC was told in front of a few of us in 2003 by the ALAEA that this was going on (it was not the first time either apparently) and he assured them that DC was aware of it all and would fix it immediately. :eek:

Well he didn't
so don't blame the ALAEA for whistle blowing to the senate they were just pointing out how easy it was for other countries and companies to sell out Australian workers :{ and take their jobs offshore

[Long Bay Mauler]

So Chemical Alli,how do you know that Perth LAMEs get paid more than there east coast brothers?Are you a Perth LAME???Do you know the cost of living in the west???Did you know that house prices are equal to and in some areas greater than Sydney???That rents have gone thru the roof???What do you care,mate,you are probably a capped out,clapped out fool,who loves to do anything to please his seniors and managers.What about all the AMEs that have just been employed over there?Do you think they are getting paid top whack now they are on the 8 hour roster?Most will earn less than there last section in the east as a 4th year than in PER.Do you think all the LAMEs over there are still as highly paid as you,because they are not doing O/T?I bet you still do 11 or 12 hour O/T on you 4 or 5 days off.:ugh:

So why don't you keep you opinion to yourself!!Its heroes like you,eh,who wear their undies on the outside,and keep going over and fixing breakdowns.You idiots get there and bang on about how "I knew it was bad,but not that bad over here" guff.:{

You blokes keep coming over and doing O/T that was once there for Perth LAMEs.Can you fools see that by doing what you are doing,that you just help the company screw the Perth blokes longer.What about some support??

Maybe the tables will turn one day.Just imagine if they close down Perth as a station.and just imagine if there are a few out of work ex-PER lames looking for some work in say,SYD,MEL,BNE or ADL,and you guys are doing something similiar to what the Perth boys are doing now,do you think that these guys are going to give a stuff about you?I wouldn't blame them if they came in and started showing some of the great east coast sc@bs(those who would be first to bleat)exactly what it is like to have your so-called association members and work mates continually raining on your parade and adding to your pain.

Can't you fools see that by doing overtime work in Perth,you are hurting and embarrasing those blokes you call mates!!Fine do O/T in your home port,but help those mates in Perth by saying that you can't be away for a night because of......1] Gotta pick the kids up,2] I have a cold,3] I have a doctors/dentist appointment tommorrow......

Get the idea.

Its not hard as most Lames are supposedly intelligent people.:ok:

[chemical alli]

so bugs exactly how many bolt ons do you have? by the way i am far from capped out as we east enders dont do third party and even the atlas guys do it for free.and if you want my support in the west you have it.three beers before ten stops any o/t call in for a junket.have been asked and declined.smoke em if you got em bugs

[Long Bay Mauler]

No Alli ,I have no bolt-ons,as where I work,we don't get 'em.Plus I am not from Perth,but know quite a few of the guys involved over there.Its just plain embarrasing that guys like yourself,get on here and bleat about the ALAEA not doing enough,yet you obviously are not asking those guys who keep going to Perth,why are they doing it?Would they like it if they were in dispute,and PER Lames/ames started coming over and filling in for their O/T.Probably not................(And as most of us know,it predominately SYD boys doing the damage)

Its just a shame guys feel the need to sling more garbage at the Perth blokes,who are simply telling the company their not happy with the way M wants to disrupt their lives for less moolla.And if you don;t think they won't bring this kind a stunt to a workplace near you,then if you believe that,you'll believe any thing.

Its a bit like a Wella hair shampoo ad,"it won't happen overnight,but it will happen"...........

M will just do it one area at a time,and as it gets closer to you,you will either capitulate quickly or you'll get the arse because there will be more sections that have already changed and the company will not be afraid of laying off a few more "rebel" Lames.

So now is the time to stick to your guns,and take the moral high ground.At least if the company win,you can at least hold your head up and say you tried to help your mates,because those blokes who have been over to PER to help M,they will not be forgotten,because as we all know its a very small industry.

So Please,"DO The Right Thing"...........and keep supporting the exec as they are doing it tuff supporting us:ok:

[The Mr Fixit]

Great to see that a Topic of such name has generated such positive comment from even the Poster.
****-stirring is an inner quality that all Engineers possess and is in fine display here.
I posted earlier on this forum with some vigor and I stand by it.
One thing I learned whilst doing courses in Sydney and Melbourne is that no matter where we come from we desire the most basic of things.

Honesty, Trust and Transparency

Honesty because we rely on it for our livelihoods

Trust that those around us share our conviction and dedication to the job

Transparency that we will all be treated equal and offered the same opportunities as the next LAME

We are not getting it here and now

Explain the error of their ways to those who attempt and do blur these qualities, Talk amongst yourselves of those who do do the right thing, TELL THEM.
Those of us who do do the right thing FAR OUTNUMBER those who don't.

STICK TOGETHER

The Wolves are at the door gentlemen and they see us as sheep but to underestimate your foe is to run the paths of peril.

[red dog leader]

Here here...that is mostly true

[chemical alli]

the desired effect was generated by this post of unscrupulous name calling (eg the alaea a disgrace) As an individual who lets emotion sometime get the better of him ,I find it about time that i digress from the sh&T stirring role and formally apoligise to the new exec.

you have achieved a great deal in a very short time,you have had a victory at the commision albeit short lived.and you have shown the general public a proffesional approach through media

keep it up my faith may be restored.