calling all WSOp OCU students

[The_Dancing_Bear]

so, this is me...

30 years old
recently received Halton start date as NCA
Have a girlfriend of 10 years who doen't want a part of the RAF lifestyle
Currently a mountaineering and climbing instructor
like most (or so it seems) want to go CMN and eventually SARI have read many threads here regarding wsop training/streaming etc and if you have DIRECT and RECENT EXPERIENCE, i would welcome some more info on the following...

1) once experienced, are SAR jobs as rare as charlie's golden ticket or are there many openings for wsops with the right experience and motivation?

2) are "budgets forcing safety corners to be cut" as much an issue as the press would allow us to think?

3) Is morale in the airforce/nca world as bad as all this and other sites make out?... or is this limited to a small bunch of miserable fkers who like to whine?

4) Being 30 - right on the upper age limit for wsop is this likely to have any +ve or -ve impact on my training / operational abilities and performance?

I guess what i'm ultimatley looking for is some reassurance that leaving a long loving relationship, a steady job and a comfortable lifestyle for RAF service will give me at least a % of what the careers office and the glossy brochures have assured me.

Open honest and constructive thoughts wecome. Although funny, jibes abpout paw spelling, dumb loadies and ready meal phd's ain't gonna help me on this one!!!
Cheers :ugh:

[Rude C'man]

I may get shot down in flames for this , but you have should have been to the wannabies brief the last thursday of every month at Cranwell. If you havent been offered this by your AFCO get on the phone ASAP and get you arse down there , all the above questions WILL be answered. All the staff are aircrew WSOP staff and students alike. If you have ANY doubts then , I suggest there are no doubts , DON'T JOIN UP . It is a given that within 2-3 years, if not sooner, YOU WILL be at the frontline . The WSOP branch is a very rewarding branch no matter where your streamed or posted. I'll state my pension that YOU will be operational ASAP after you complete the OCU or OCF. The front line needs new blood and there you will get the experience needed to progress. If you or your partner / GF have doubts YOU must take a good long look at your futures , and to be honest YOU should have done this way before getting offered a place at Halton.
As for your age Ive trained 38 yr olds that have breezed the training , mainly because they wanted to fly and had it deep in their heart to succeed and wear the coverted NCA brevet.
Think hard and don't be put of by RUMOUR this is a RUMOUR web site , it even says so in the title!!
True fact, my friend will assist you in your decsion , all I'd say is I have had 22 yrs in the RAF and reumustered to Aircrew late , I have thorougly enjoyd my flying , but its cost me dearly !! That was my choice, based on fact.
I may come across strong, what Im trying to be is HONEST ! I have no answers and cant give advice , no one can. All we can do is give you the facts and let you make the choice.
I wish you luck my friend and hope one day you'll tell me your story of your doubts early one morning whilst were sat waitng to start the engines!

[Winch-control]

First questions first..a girlfriend of 10yrs that doesn't an RAF life style...so you prepared to forget the life style?
Your second point, re climbing etc, may well stand you in good stead if,when you get to a front line SAR unit, however, you may have to prove yourself to get there and 'hoop jump' in the SH world for a number of years prior to being considerd.
Your age is not levant, up to a point, if you are physically fit enough to do the job.
Corners are not cut. Rest assured you will have sound and safe training.
Others out there will be able to offer better advice than me, and I would advice you to take it all in, but in conclusion I can highly recommend the road you wish to follow. G

[J.A.F.O.]

My experience is direct, if not recent.
Did I love doing the job in my twenties? YES
Would I start doing it at 30? NO
Was the training hard at 19/20? YES
Would I have had a chance at 30? NO
Would I leave a loving relationship to do it? NO
Would I leave a good/comfortable lifestyle behind for it? NO
Is it like the brochures? NO
Can I offer reassurance? NO
Can I make your mind up for you? NO
Do I consider myself lucky to have been there/done that? YES
If I was in your position do I think I'd go for it? NO
Do I wish you all the best? YES

[Cmn2644]

I agree with a lot of what has been said already.

I too left a good well paid job in civvy street to go NCA. Do I regret that, NO. Age was no issue - NCA recruits ranged from 18 to 30 on my course. The training was hard but if your fit enough, you won't have a problem. You won't have any dramas from training staff about being 30 and if anything it will aid in your credibility to become a SNCO once you have gone through the NCAITC at cranwell.

As for SAR as NCA, you would first have to get streamed rotary and go through the helo course at shawbury. Once completed, it is very rare as NCA to go SAR from shawbury if you have no previous military experience. As said already, you would probably go SH and spend a couple of tours in the sun and sand before being considered for SAR.

As for leaving a loving relationship, that is something you are going to have to find the answer too yourself unfortunately mate. Service life is hard enough on relationships and thats when your mrs wants to be involved in RAF life !

At the end of the day, I dont regret a minute and love what I am doing now. Its a chance to do something exciting and adventurous with your life and I can't think of any other job I would sooner be doing.

Good luck and get yourself to one of the NCA days at cranwell - all will be explained.

[Roguedent]

:cool: I guess its F#*K OF*. Well thats what you will be doing in you PVR letter. I have a past paper, all it needs is the name changing for yours.:mad: I know I am cynical, but you have just raised the bar. You count yourself lucky for being there:{ . I am sure you trained hard, and thats what got you there, not luck. DOn't ask for a AVPO post, I don't think your gonna get it.:\
Dancing Bear, if you had the nuts to and the courage to join then go for it!:D Does the GF actually know what the lifestyle involves, or what she she sees on the BBC or CNN. Also I guess shes seen a load of movies that show us all as bronzed heros with a women in each port. :ugh: We all like to whine, but at the end of the day its the Job and the bloke/women next to you that do it for. The morale isn't as high as it should be, but the banter levels are! Being a part of the forces, is a life thats defo worth it. Yes we go to some hell holes, at the moment, but thats due to a polictical stance that isn't pro-military. Times change, and so does the forces. I haven't met an old and bold who hasn't said 'It was better in my day!' But I hear that from people who have been in 10 years as well. Its all about your perspective. I wish you all the best:ok:
p.s In reply to J.A.F.O - - I would answer Yes to all his questions apart from the brochures one and making your mind up

[Joe Black]

If SAR is your ultimate goal and you still find the prospect of all the WSOp roles interesting, then you should go for it mate. A job as NCA cannot be compared with any job in the civy sector.....you'll get to visit some great places and obviously some not so fantastic. I completed my OCU about 18 months ago and have been to the desert twice since then...hard work but I've enjoyed it. You'll meet some great friends and if yr a single lad you will no doubt enjoy the company of some WAFs!(okay, i'm awaiting the flak!)
My WSOp course was one of the last in which you could have a choice in your specialization - I picked AEOp and am currently based at Kinloss. You'll probably think that most of the SAR opportunities go to the SH lads...this is true however there is a high number of AEOps currently being selected as Winch/Radar op and possibly as winchman(i stand to be corrected).

Any questions , feel free to ask or PM me and age will not be a problem.:ok:

[Cmn2644]

From talking with the lads at SARTU, my understanding is that AEOps can indeed go either winch op or winchman. I believe they do the long course at SARTU after which they are selected for one of the two specialisations. I stand to be corrected by any SARboys on this strand.

I will withold my comments about WAF's !! That is a rare treat a man must discover on his own journey !!

[Rude C'man]

Cman 2664 , a true Crewman has always discoverd WAF's especially on OpS " WANT TO RIDE ON MY CHOPPER ? ma'm?" but what does it stand for again ?

[Mr Point]

You need to remember that since the change to WSOp you have no guarantee of becoming a crewman, although there is a fairly good chance at the minute with the current front-line manning situation. However, if six years or more in the north of Scotland on Nimrods, with 6-7 months a year out in the desert doesn't float your boat, then I'd suggest you have a careful think about your future.

SAR helicopters are available for ALL WSOp trades and most RadOps are ex-Nimrod rearcrew. Also worth bearing in mind is that the SAR(H) transformation will start from 2012 onwards, which will massively reduce the military helicopter crew numbers. Those left in the SAR Force will alternate between SH and SAR tours which you may not find too appealing.

At 30, if you're fit and healthy, your maturity will be an advantage and will probably increase your chances of a first tour on SAR more than your mountaineering qualifications. As for you girlfriend, at 30 you'll also what's more important.

All the best with your decision.

[WASALOADIE]

It is possible to go SAR straight from Shawbury and some have done so in recent years. However its the numbers game. If the requirement is for SH then they get the lions share, if there are SAR slots available then if you star on the SARTU phase and do well during the whole of the Shawbury course you might get a chance. Otherwise as previously mentioned, you may have to do a couple of tours on SH before you get the chance to crossover. How many slots will be available in the future? anybody's guess.

Best of luck for the future, work hard and dont relax during training.

[wokkameister]

Good luck with whatever you decide. To be perfectly blunt, getting a bit of a background from posters on here is a good idea, but don't make your mind up based on the answers.

If you can't decide without gems from Rude C'man or myself, your probably not right for the job.

[TeBoi]

I can add some backup to the SAR info - I am from a FW ALM background and I was offered a slot on a SAR pre-select at SARTU. There are also a number of ex Air Engineers on the SAR force so you definitely don't have to start out as a RW Crewman, although I am sure their background helps a lot. i know it could be a long way down the line but I believe Shawbury are very helpful to people wanting to cross over to SAR and can offer something of a rotary famil to help people before going to Valley for selection.

As regards your age, don't worry about the training. "We are all individuals." :8 You will either find it really hard, really easy or as most people do, fairly challenging. Who knows till you try? Your maturity will definitely help though.

As regards the GF, it's really up to you but are you possibly willing to lose her to chase a dream? Only you can answer that, but you can always opt to leave, I believe up to OCF/OCU, and the time spent away during training will give you both a good idea whether you are happy spending time apart.

[The_Dancing_Bear]

hey chaps thanks for all the words of encouragement... still not convinced about the WAF argument tho'...

keep the info coming should anyone have anything to add

many thanks
bear
:confused:

[J.A.F.O.]

Roguedent - I left it all behind long, long ago.

Dancing Bear - Good luck whichever way you jump, I'm told that when you're in the home dribbling into your cardigan then you regret the things that you didn't do far more than those that you did do (perhaps this doesn't apply to the likes of Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe but you get the drift).

[blogger]

Do some PC and carry out a risk assessment.........it's old it fly's you die.

Do the maths look at Iraq young guys die on their first tour.

25 years gone and days to do I am getting out
Not staying like the few

You have a nice girlfriend look after her....

A dead hero or to be alive and enjoy your kids?

It is not worth the risk..........

[Yeller_Gait]

Blogger,

Do some PC and carry out a risk assessment.........it's old it fly's you die

Thanks for your valuable contribution to this thread. Failed aircrew selection did we?

If the Pilots/Captains had any concerns about the safety of the aircraft they were about to sign for to go flying in, do you really think that they would still go?

All aircraft at some time or another have been/are prone to accidents; no aircraft is ever guaranteed not to crash, but the rewards of an exciting, interesting and varied aircrew career are worthwhile compared to most civvy jobs.

Just remember, more people die in road related accidents than air accidents. Life is all about risk taking, and ultimately everyone will lose, but it is about enjoying yourself while you are winning.

Y_G

[TheWizard]

Do some PC and carry out a risk assessment.........it's old it fly's you die.

Do the maths look at Iraq young guys die on their first tour.

25 years gone and days to do I am getting out
Not staying like the few

You have a nice girlfriend look after her....

A dead hero or to be alive and enjoy your kids?


So it took you 25 years to work that out then? and you are obviously still alive?
So either you stayed somewhere warm and safe for 25 years or your theory doesn't stand up.
I wonder if you would be passing on such cheerful pearls of wisdom if you were staying in? No? Thought not.:hmm:

[Rude C'man]

Try this ...........

It is not the critic, who counts,
nor he man who points out how the strong man stumbles.
Or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena,
whose face is marred with dust sweat and blood;
who knows great enthusiasm great devotion and the triumph of achievement.
And who, at the worst if he fails, at least he fails whilst daring greatly
so that his place shall never be with those odd and timid souls,
who knows neither victory nor defeat.
You have never lived until you have almost died.
For those whom have had to fight for it,
life has truly a flavour that the protected shall never know.


wokkameister my regards to the boys . 1 more chopped !!!! last month.

[animo et fide]

Hey Bear


It can be quite difficult cutting the wheat from the chaff on this site and some people have been less than useful. If you want some honest opinions then why not arrange a visit to the stations you may want to end up at, you are more than welcome to visit us here at Odiham, then you can get the information straight from the horses mouths.

AEF

Big up to Rude C'man hope cranditz is treating you well!

[jollygreenfunmachine]

Dancing Bear, lots of advice so far hope the following will allow you to see things slightly more clearly.
First things first and this is the biggy so i thought it worth reemphasising. YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED WSOp!!!
As already stated you could end up on Nimrods or E3's or indeed Hercules, tri stars or VC10's. However, at the moment, i would suggest that most people (80%) get what they want.
Secondly, some crewman who finish Shawbury do go straight to SAR. This is not as uncommon as it used to be. However, decisions like these are based on service need and aptitude. If you express a strong preference and you perform well on the SARTU phase of the course AND THERE IS A SERVICE NEED!!!!! you may well get lucky. Failing that there is still the chance to go SAR after SH. However, the squadrons will want at least a tour out of you to justify the training costs.
Next, the Morale question. As in every walk of life there are whingers. However, even when i have been in the ****est places on the planet, the banter and comaradery from your fellow aircrew and indeed engineer colleagues is second to none. No matter what you hear, WSOp crewman are not beating the door down to leave. The job is hard, and currently as you will have recently seen, at times very dangerous. The rewards if you open your eyes, both financially, and professionally are very good.
If your fit, thirty is not an issue at all. In fact as already stated it's probably an advantage.
If she doesnt want you to join, and you do, ditch her! In fact even if she has a change of heart, ditch her. Everyone should be single for at least their first tour. Any questions?
Budget cuts and safety. Well that could be a seperate thread all on it's own. If i say no, someone will remind me of anticipators on Puma's and body armour for the troops. Is that cutting corners? Probably. Could we do with more kit? Yes. Have i ever had to buy my own kit to deploy with? Yes. Have i ever had to refuse to fly an aircraft bcause i dont think it's safe to fly because of budget cuts? No.
Only you can decide what's best for you mate. Ive been in the RAF for 17 years now and done this job for 10. Have i enjoyed it? Yes. Have i ever whinged? Yes. Would i change anything? No. I agree with the comments about getting out and about. Get yourself down to the SH units. Take responsibility and go there and talk to people, they wont bulls**t you. SH mates are renowned for their honesty and they will speak their minds.
Whatever you decide, best of luck.

[TheWizard]

First things first and this is the biggy so i thought it worth reemphasising. YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED WSOp!!!

I think he will if he wants to do any of the jobs suggested so far!!:}

[jollygreenfunmachine]

Apologies! Long day flying a desk! To clarify bear, you're not gauranteed WSOp helicopter crewman!

[dogrobber]

hi guy,
i,ve been in the rearcrew game for 33yrs and have been fortunate to have served in the sh ,sar ,and aeop roles and its been fantastic, there is no comparison , in any fashion, to civilian experiences u will see and undertake operations that make hollywood seem like ballamoray, i kid u not...........BUT THERE IS A PRICE TO PAY, often that is a relationship issue because the nature of what is required demands a certain amount of dedication , i dont think your age is too much of an issue , but you are more likely to be nearer 40 before u r even looked at for a sar pre-select,in the present climate thats just about a fact ( thats taking in all your course time .....2 fl tours, aacmt etc,).sounds like tho you have doubts already ,this particular post perhaps,anyway guy i would go for it ( the sand crap wont last forever,i hope) and worth remembering maybe the gf will commit as much to both your futures.see u on an ocu