Engineering - Pay and Conditions

[planecrazy.eu]

I have been looking at going into Engineering after the sad news my eyes dont cut the CAA Class One Medical Standards.

I recently attended a career seminar style event, it was about all aspects of Engineering, when it came to the aviation part, the general overview was "dont do it" and this was because they say its underpaid compared to other jobs you can get with a B/MEng Degree in Mechanical Engineering.

I have done some digging but cant really find out what career prospects are like in Aviation engineering and what roles have the best prospects.

I couldnt find much info on Salary either, however, if you switch to Automotive or even Civil, there are loads and loads of sources of pay and conditions and all that.

I have passion for Aviation, which to me is worth loosing a few K a year on Salary, but how this guy was talking, Aviation has no money in it for engineers and the better paid jobs are else where?

So, any info on pay and conditions would be most useful, as to is anyone who wants to put me right on anything i have said, i have typed is as i heard the info, and i know that some people are very bias about industries where they have greater interest.

[ericferret]

Do you already have an engineering degree?

[4Foxtrot]

Have you considered the RAF? From a military point of view there some options out there that would give you a good breadth of engineering experience.

If you want to get into the technical side of things there are opportunities in all major areas, airframes, propulsion, avionics, weapons etc, although it could be argued that these are reducing in number. I would only be speculating about rank/pay structure so I'll leave that for others to comment on. If your eyesight failed on colour blindness, then I would advise against going along the armament route. <"No, cut the blue wire" we all chime>

If you want the engineering management side of things, then the officer route may be more suitable. ericferret's comment about having a degree becomes very relevant here as a degree-level engineering qualification is required. Beyond the rank of Flt Lt, exposure to the aviation experience you desire would diminish greatly, so a Short Service Commission (SSC) of 6 years might be more suitable than a longer engagement.

Salaries as an Officer Cadet under training start at £13,881 and jumps to £26,371 (in the rank of Flying Officer) upon completion of 6 months initial training. Top level Flight Lieutenant pay max's out at £40,190, although many people get promoted to Squadron Leader before they reach the top rate. Squadron Leader pay starts around £42,570 and rises to £50,983, although it takes most people 15-20 years to get to top level. Note that there are few, if any, pay incentives for further qualifications as an engineer. There are also a limited number of sponsored MSc's available once you are in the service, but these require a 3-year return-of-service.

Hopefully I'm not over-simplifying this too much, but in a 6 year commission as an officer you can expect one tour 'on the line' as a Junior Engineering Officer (JEngO) where you will be the loathe of all the aircrew and possibly some/all of the 100 or so engineers that will work for you. Great fun if you have the cojones, not so good if you don't. Another tour might be running a shift on a depth maintenance facility. Another tour might see you 'in the rear with the gear' project managing enhancements to aircraft systems. Other, probably more boring, tours are available. Like I said, beyond that, you are likely to be tied up in policy, procurement and plans.

While you may not pick up specific hands-on engineering qualifications, you would gain very handy engineering management and project skills that apply equally well in both civvy and military fields. And meet some great people. If you went for an SSC then it would still give you time to have a second career in aviation outside of the military.

If you are interested in joining then the Mil Forum has a thread which has all the gen on joining here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256238). Just ignore all the pump about being a pilot.

Hope this helps.

I'll be interested to see what life/pay is like for civvy engineers.

[planecrazy.eu]

I havnt considered the R.A.F in many many years, so i might look into that again.

I failed as i am +0.25 diopters over the astigmatism level, which seems a little trivial but suppose they have to have a cut off at some point and stick to it.

Anyways, i was thinking more Engineering in terms of Manufacture, Airbus etc, Mechanical Engineering basicaly, design, analysis or what would interest me even more, some type of project managements.

As for Engineering for airlines, it sounds pretty well paid to me, and not what i thought. I can see thats after a fair bit of experience and time but its still a nice wage.

What are the promotion prospects with airlines and engineering, such as progression to management etc?

I dont currently have a Degree no, i am at the end of Y1 where you need to choose what you want to do,

I have the choice of Aerospace, Mechanical, Electrical and Civil Engineering, initially i thought Aerospace, now i am thinking Mechanical, but i am trying to find what i can do with such a degree that i will be happy doing.

I am looking for a job i would enjoy, but then looking at the Salary side too, i wouldnt take a job for the cash as such, but if i have 2 or 3 jobs i like the sound of and would enjoy equal then salary would be a turning point i guess?

I am busey reading here to see what people think of there engineering jobs, i am looking to see if a majority of you are satisfied.

Thanks again

[miket_68]

I am gutted to hear you failed the Medical due to your 0.25 diopter.

Did you attend the medical or were told before you attended.

I have been told prior to attending that mine were out 0.5 diopter but I have written back in hope they will let me attend the medical and see what they say,

Here's hoping.

Mike

[Blacksheep]

My advice is to follow the Mechanical (or the Electrical if you're inclined that way) engineering path. You can decide on a career when you graduate. There are places for Mechanical and Electrical engineers in all industries - including aviation. The long term prospects for an Aerospace graduate would be more limited.

[planecrazy.eu]

I couldnt read the 6/9 line with my lazy eye, so its a fail.

As for the diopters, i was .25 out, but they would still let me attend, as in theory its my money and it can be corrected by getting glasses that are .25 diopter less powerful.

Even more gutting, if i would have taken it when i was going to last year i would have got it, and because the revalidation limts are so high i would have been fine. I am not 100% sure, but i have read its +/- 8 diopters for revalidations???

Anyways, back on subjects, I agree with the above so thats my plan, so thanks all for the help/advice. I will do MechEng, think i may go to MEng and get the CEng and in those 4 years, or 5 if i do a placement i will be thinking out my career paths.

Ok, last question, and i know its the wrong forum and even the wrong website, but its Engineering related and someone might know???

Do F1 Racing teams take on MechEng students, as they seem to put an emphasis on AeroEng?

Thanks again...

[bgc]

Hi this is my first post so here goes, I'm doing an Meng Aeronautical engineering(3rd year) and am enjoying it. The advice I got whenever I was doing my A-Levels was that very few aero engineering graduates were working in aerospace or any engineering job for that matter 1 to 2 years after graduating. But I disregarded their advice and did Aero engineering at Queens Belfast anyway. Whatever you do in life there'll always be nay sayers trying to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. BTW the same people told me that there would be very few jobs for pilots post 9/11! :confused: guess they were sceptical about budget airlines back then. Anyway get as much advice as you can now but at the end of the day its you who will be doing the course and trying to get a job at the end of it so trust your instincts.

The best advice I could give you is to do a 5 year sandwich course so you can get some industrial experience. It'll increase your chances of getting a job tenfold. A Graduate with 1 years industrial experience and a 2:1 or an equal graduate with a first and no experience, the graduate with the 2:1 will get the job every time. I'm doing a placement at the minute and have learnt loads in the past year. Theres normally alot of competition for placements but if you apply to lots of companies you only have to get accepted to one. But apply early (beginning of 3rd year) and the better your exam marks the more chance you have so aim for above 70%. Most companies that take you on for a placement will also offer you a job if you show any enthusiasm at all.

You could also do a PhD when you graduate which normally pays a £14000 grant plus a £2000-£4000 from the company that you're doing the research for, all tax free so its the equivalent of earning about £20000. Which is slightly more than engineering graduate pay (here in Northern Ireland anyway). Engineering graduates can get better pay in other fields (finance) starting on £50K in London(but in my opinion you'll spend most of it trying to live there).

From talking to various engineers through work it seems that employers aren't looking for specific engineering degrees but more an engineering graduate that can display the intellectual capacity to do the work required. So do the variant of engineering that you want because If you're really passionate and enjoy learning about a particular field then you'll excel at it and get better exam grades and thats what employers will be looking for.

By doing aerospace engineering you won't be confining yourself to just the aviation industry, you could easily get a job in any industry where an engineer is required. All you have to do is show a potential employer that you've got what it takes and you do that by gaining experience in your spare time away from Uni and by getting the best exam grades you can.

Also if you're thinking about employment in the US of A well sorry to disappoint you but unless you've got something really special you don't have a chance. US companies see it as a failure whenever they have to employ a foreign engineer.

Anyway, Good Luck whatever you decide to do

BGC

[ericferret]

This post asks for an interesting comparison to be made.

How does the pay of a graduate engineer working within the aircraft industry
compare with the pay of a licensed engineer.

To add to the pay scale quoted above as a licensed engineer on 4 on 4 off,
working on Boeings over the last 4 years I have made about £52,000 with minimal overtime.

I have just been offered a similar position with another operator, with one company type on my licence, starting salary of £41,000. With £3000 per extra type.

In theory this pay scale would be available to someone as young as 21 if they have completed their exams. I certified my first job on a civil aircraft at 24.