Another Jetstar 'fiasco'??

[B A Lert]

From the Sydney Morning Herald

Jetstar loses more of its shine

Dylan Welch
April 16, 2007 - 2:25PM


Time's not on budget carrier Jetstar's side again, after one group of angry passengers was forced to stay in the wrong city overnight and another offered $8 food vouchers when their flight was cancelled.

The latest incidents come a day after the end to a 48-hour delay for Jetstar passengers trying to get home to Australia from Honolulu.

Last night a Jetstar flight was turned away from Sydney Airport because it was just after the 11pm official curfew.

The plane was forced to fly to Melbourne's Avalon Airport. Passengers were provided with free hotel rooms and had a special flight put on this morning to return them to Sydney.

But the special flight from Melbourne meant another Jetstar flight, JQ482 from Sydney to Hamilton Island at 6.55am, had to be cancelled, leaving numerous holidaygoers fuming.

Terry Bec, 46, from Wollongong, who was heading off with his wife and children on a week-long holiday, said he was "pissed off" at the cancellation, which caused the family to spend six hours at Sydney Airport waiting for the afternoon flight.

"Never, ever again," was all Mr Bec had to say when asked by smh.com.au what he thought of Jetstar, adding that two of the airline's staff had quipped with him that they didn't fly with their own company.

Spokesman for Jetstar Simon Westaway said that, when it became apparent JQ482 would have to be cancelled to collect the stranded Melbourne passengers, the company tried to contact everyone booked on this morning's flight.

About two-thirds of this morning's passengers received the information, he said.

Jetstar then diverted a flight from Melbourne to Hamilton Island and picked up 65 of the 130 Sydney to Hamilton passengers, meaning a third flight was affected by last night's curfew slip-up.

The remaining 65 passengers were forced to wait about six hours at Sydney Airport until the afternoon flight arrived, at 1.05pm.

Kate Arnott, a journalist from Melbourne who said she had not been contacted by the company, said she and her boyfriend arrived at Sydney Airport at 6am only to be told at 7am that the flight had been cancelled.

She asked for a Cabcharge so she and her partner could return home to wait, but the company instead offered all delayed passengers an $8 meal voucher as compensation.

She felt "ripped off" by the offer, she said.

"We just thought that's not good enough compensation. More than that, it was just the lack of communication."

She said Jetstar had obviously not learned from its recent fiasco in Hawaii.

"Just knowing the Hawaii stuff, this is just ridiculous."

Last night and this morning's cancellations, delays and reroutings had no relationship to the Honolulu incident, Mr Westaway said.

He also believed a request for a Cabcharge was "unreasonable".

"We did everything we could from a customer service perspective. We initiated call-outs [yesterday] evening. We diverted a Melbourne aircraft bound for Hamilton Island into Sydney.

"The remaining passengers [were] flown out on the one o'clock service this afternoon.

"I think that's excellent customer service, given the fact that we were denied getting an aircraft into Sydney Airport given the curfew."

As the spin doctor says in the final sentence "we were denied getting an aircraft into Sydney Airport given the curfew." No, it's got nothing to do with running a late service has it? Blame everyone and anyone but not the airline. :mad: wits.

[G Cantstandya]

This would have never happened at another airline....yeah right!!!!
jetstar bashing continues...b a ****** or alert what ever your name is i guess your another career fo or so at the rat with a chip on your shoulder:D :D Jq and Vb are the future of the industry in this country so get used to it!!!!!!:ok:

[B A Lert]

Jq and Vb are the future of the industry in this country so get used to it!!!!!

If this is the case, bring on Tiger or anyone else capable of offering service. It matters not how much is paid for a fare, as all the punter wants is to be treated with respect and consideration. After all, the punter who pays his money keeps the show on the road and if they take their money elsewhere, what happens? Any organisation that ignores the customer and service does so at its peril. Come to think of it, that's why Jetstar bashing is getting to be serious instead of sport.

[Bazzamundi]

Jetstar bashing here is only going to inflame one group, the Jetstar employees. Is that your wish BA?

Stop and think about what Dixon wants. How would he feel if we actually worked together to improve things? Any chance of that happening while the two groups of employees bash each other here? Sadly it only takes a couple of protaganists from each side to give everybody a bad name.

A lot of mindless bashing of groups resulted in the end of the QF participation in the Cabin Crew Forum didn't it?

[B A Lert]

Jetstar bashing here is only going to inflame one group, the Jetstar employees. Is that your wish BA?

No. In fact the word 'bashing' was used by another poster. If the rank and file at Jetstar read some of this they may, if they have the courage or guts, challenge their leaders about some of the things they are doing, not doing or saying. Good night and good bye.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Uh...if Tiger is meant to provide lower airfares than Jetstar, what makes you think the customer service will be better?

A low cost airline has fewer resources than a full service one. Having worked for two other full service airlines, crap happens...and what happened to Jetstar is no different than the disruption that occurred then.

One of those airlines was Ansett.

[Angle of Attack]

Jq and Vb are the future of the industry in this country so get used to it!!!!!

Well I agree and disagree, I give all Kudos to VB, they have built an Airline from the ground up by themselves and have far better reputation, and service (from my personal experiences) than Jet-Star. Its been a simple prop up Airline basically all the ground support, ticketing, experience has come from the QF Group, nothing wrong with that but you would think they learn some facts of communication and service to pax from their Mummy Airline, but the fact is they are absolutely hopeless (in my experience) compared to VB. I think in the general minds VB has a far better reputation and I think they will emerge as far more popular than Jet Star, or Jet-star starts learning some things and seriously competes.

So in a Nutshell, take out Jet* or at least add a modified Jet* and that may be the future of the industry!! (Well what Im hoping I guess) But I think a lot of us know that we have no idea of the actual future of this industry as a lot can atest to !!:E

[resboy]

Totally unbelieveable.

Where do people get off.

As if no other airline has EVER missed curfew at Sydney.

I've decided Jetstar bashing is now a sport.

I have being part of some absolutely appallingly handled rolling AND known delays. Incidently many of these where at Q where the compensation offered to passengers was nothing better than a meal voucher (sounds familiar doesn't it)

People who think Tiger is going to offer something "better" please refer to my post entitled "Utopia" on the "tiger A320s downunder threat". Get a reality check.

End of rant :*

[Angle of Attack]

Jq and Vb are the future of the industry in this country so get used to it!!!!!
Well I agree and disagree, I give all Kudos to VB, they have built an Airline from the ground up by themselves and have far better reputation, and service (from my personal experiences) than Jet-Star. Its been a simple prop up Airline basically all the ground support, ticketing, experience has come from the QF Group, nothing wrong with that but you would think they learn some facts of communication and service to pax from their Mummy Airline, but the fact is they are absolutely hopeless (in my experience) compared to VB. I think in the general minds VB has a far better reputation and I think they will emerge as far more popular than Jet Star, or Jet-star starts learning some things and seriously competes.
So in a Nutshell, take out Jet* or at least add a modified Jet* and that may be the future of the industry!! (Well what Im hoping I guess) But I think a lot of us know that we have no idea of the actual future of this industry as a lot can atest to !!:E

[PattyStacker]

BA cancels flight because of tired crew ???

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/BA_flight_held_up_as_pilot_catches_sleep/rssarticleshow/1912662.cms

[dodgybrothers]

yep I can just see it now, the Singaporeans handing out cabcharges when their aircraft go u/s. If people think that Tiger will be any different just wait. I think EWL gave a nice little insight into what it is like dealing with them on another post. Should be fun comparing sunday newspaper columns about both airlines, and then the slimmed down rat after apa take it to boot camp, then we should see some complaints.

[Keg]

As if no other airline has EVER missed curfew at Sydney.

It's not whether or not you miss the curfew Resboy, it's how you handle the subsequent cluster that counts and this isn't the first time that J* has done it exceedingly poorly.

QF isn't immune from this either but given the weight of sectors it would appear that it would appear that poor delay/ cancellation management is becoming a J* art form. :ok:

[roamingwolf]

resboy

Unbelievable and where do people get off?

How dare people expect service and communication ?

Mate technical glitches happen to every business.The difference between a good one and an ordinary one are the ones that communicate with their customers.I have been invloved with 3 J* foul ups and the pilots didn't even communicate with the cabin crew for a considerable time.

[soldier of fortune]

reminds me of the time -a j* flight from HBO -SYD diverted into CBR one night due very bad weather in SYD .the aircraft parked over at fairbairn as the appron at the terminal was full -the tech crew and some cabin crew just locked themselves in the flt deck the whole time the aircraft sat there. the pax were geting angry so the FED's were called over for bit a mussle -the aircraft arrived at 2120 hrs and by the time the fueling tanker truck got to them it was way past bedtime in SYD ie curfew -so the qf cbr ops staff spent all night on the phones drying to arrange hotel accomadation -but as luck would have it . there was no vaccancies far and wide - finally they arranged some school busses to come and take the pax upto syd -they turned up at 0430 hrs - more feds turned up to watch over the pax as they trundled off the aircraft at -0400 hrs and got the bus to syd- the luggage stayed on the aircraft and arrived at SYD with aircraft finally at 1100hrs the next day. as for custermer service or communication there was none.:yuk:

[Mstr Caution]

Monday 16-04-07

"Creative Holiday" booked & ticketed passengers arrive at Sydney International terminal to fly on the JQ27 to Phuket.

Problem is the tickets were for a 14:40 departure, whereas the scheduled departure time was 13:30.

Additionally, Jetstar had no information about the ticketed passengers travelling on the flight in the system.

Nice start to an overseas holiday, the Traval agent stating that all normal processes were followed in the ticketing at booking process.

[lowerlobe]

I've noticed a number of people (probably Jetstar employees) telling us that you get what you pay for.The trouble with this is that a number of full service airlines are within a few dollars of Jet scar's prices.

So the pax are not getting what they pay for but the problem is public perception and that is when they see a Jet scar ad they think it is cheap simply because it is J*.

Those that are telling us that Tiger will be no different must have a very good crystal ball.How do you know what Tiger will offer?What happens if they offer free small meals or something that the others do not?

Even at the very least if Tiger uses SIA's bank balance to offer cheaper fares then the locals will have to follow suit.

[dodgybrothers]

lobotomy, simple, because the don't and they won't. They use the same model and will fight Jetstar on the same terms. However, I'm sure in the war there will be incentives to win the wallets of the Australian travelling public but it will be in the form of cheap airfares and then we'll see the real race to the bottom.

[lowerlobe]

dodgy..If you think Tiger will have no teeth when it arrives then it's not me that has had a lobotomy..by the way you are not a Jetscar employee are you?

[neville_nobody]

Is the Australian Government going to pass any laws pertaining to this sort of thing? They are mulling it over in the USA after having several very nasty turn of events with pax being left overnight on u/s aircraft on numerous occasions in the past year(in one instance in Hawaii they turned off the APU). It all came to a head recently with JetBlue handling a major snow storm "Jetstar Style" by leaving everyone stranded in the JFK terminal. Really if you are going to be stuck anywhere overnight the airline should be putting you up in a hotel. QF will and have done it in the past, maybe it should become law.

[Ex QF]

And JetBlue sent the following to all of their customers.
Dear JetBlue Customers, We are sorry and embarrassed. But most of all, we are deeply sorry. Last week was the worst operational week in JetBlue's seven year history. Following the severe winter ice storm in the Northeast, we subjected our customers to unacceptable delays, flight cancellations, lost baggage, and other major inconveniences. The storm disrupted the movement of aircraft, and, more importantly, disrupted the movement of JetBlue's pilot and inflight crewmembers who were depending on those planes to get them to the airports where they were scheduled to serve you. With the busy President's Day weekend upon us, rebooking opportunities were scarce and hold times at 1-800-JETBLUE were unacceptably long or not even available, further hindering our recovery efforts. Words cannot express how truly sorry we are for the anxiety, frustration and inconvenience that we caused. This is especially saddening because JetBlue was founded on the promise of bringing humanity back to air travel and making the experience of flying happier and easier for everyone who chooses to fly with us. We know we failed to deliver on this promise last week. We are committed to you, our valued customers, and are taking immediate corrective steps to regain your confidence in us. We have begun putting a comprehensive plan in place to provide better and more timely information to you, more tools and resources for our crewmembers and improved procedures for handling operational difficulties in the future. We are confident, as a result of these actions, that JetBlue will emerge as a more reliable and even more customer responsive airline than ever before. Most importantly, we have published the JetBlue Airways Customer Bill of Rights http://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/promise/index.html?source=ap_2promise
—our official commitment to you of how we will handle operational interruptions going forward—including details of compensation. I have a video message to share with you about this industry leading action. You deserved better—a lot better—from us last week. Nothing is more important than regaining your trust and all of us here hope you will give us the opportunity to welcome you onboard again soon and provide you the positive JetBlue Experience you have come to expect from us.
Sincerely,
David Neeleman Founder and CEO JetBlue Airways

[Cactus Jak]

OUTSTANDING Jetblue.

Jetstar/Virgin etc. etc. for f@&k sake, take note.

[Another Number]

Looking into my Crystal Tiger Ball:

If Tiger has a few J*-style strandings, etc, Dixon might change the tune with QF catering for J* cockups, since Tiger doesn't have a local big brother to turn to.

In terms of negative publicity for J*:

I dont watch ACA/TT - have they been running stories on the state of J* yet? If not, I haven't seen many QF ads on TV of late, so what's the leverage? Mates in power?

edit: Hadn't heard Nine are doing a reality tv show on J* ...
Well, that eliminates any criticism coming from ACA!

[mention1]

Soldier, that must have been some bad weather at SYD.

Now if you take off and get to top of climb and your FMS says you are going to miss your curfew, why continue on, was the nearest airport Avalon? Please explain?

[Ultralights]

The Problems are easier to solve than they think, people fly Jet scab knowing they are getting a cheap service, and the most common complaint from PAX is the lack of COMMUNICATION!!!!

if something goes wrong, and it always will... then simply TELL THE PAX WHATS GOING ON!!! simple...

[resboy]

I have absolutelty no agrument with the need for communication in a delay situation.

Going back to the original HTI example, from being a "res" person in my time I can tell you there are enough bookings out there with little or no contact information. This makes it very difficult for any airline (even the untouchable Q) to get a 100% hit rate when calling out a delay. One of Australia's largest chains of (discount) travel agents is notorious amongst the industry for this. The problem made is more difficult when the decision to cancel is made in the middle of the night and you have skeleton reservations/ops staff to deal with the reaccommodation.

What gets me is Jetstar has a sniff of a disruption, the media is on to it, along with all the Jetstar bashers of pprune.

As stated in my previous post, I have being involved with or witnessed some appalling handled disruptions at other airlines. Incudling passengers being left for hours and hours with little advice and no offer of accommodation. Until the realisation in the wee small hours of the morning that maybe the pax need to be accommodated. And this from a "full-service" carrier.

Disruptions and delays are terrible and certainly cause no joy for anyone, passengers and frontline staff alike. And as many people in here have mentioned its how the situation is handled that makes the difference. No arguments from me at all.

I just find it intriguing distruption at Jetstar is for some reason far more newsworthy than distruption at Qantas, Virgin, or anyone else for that matter.

And yes, congratulations to Jetblue. The EU also has a set standard for passenger compensation in distruptions.

For the sake of transperancy for passengers of ALL AIRLINES in Australia something similar to the EU rules here in Oz would be a positive move. :ok:

[lowerlobe]

Another number...Who does SIA's catering in Australia? I'm curious because if Tiger has a problem they are not alone as they will probably have the back up of SIA just as Jetscar has the back up of QF.

[Taildragger67]

Now I might be a bit simplistic in my thinking here, so if someone can please put me straight...

If an A330 diverts into AVV due to missing the Sydney curfew, then presumably the a/c will have to position up to Sydney asap the next day to do its next scheduled run... so would it not make sense, rather than take an A320 (or two) off the domestic loop (so causing the knock-ons) and running a now-empty A330 back up to Sydney, to simply fly the diverted A330 - with pax - to Sydney to arrive when the curfew lifts at sparrow's the next morning?

Or would the absence of night-shift ground handlers at AVV have delayed the repositioning of the A330 until later in the day?

I'm sure that if the following had been put to a vote, the punters would've voted to stay on: "OK people, we've missed the Sydney curfew, so we can either all stay on the aircraft until first thing, take off and get to Sydney at 05.30am, or we can wait on the aircraft until we've found you all hotels (which may take until, say, 3am), bus you all to the hotels at 4am, let you sleep, bus you back at, say, 10am, fly you up to Sydney to get you there in time for lunch". (Note that I am not actually suggesting such things be put to a vote but as intelligent people I'm sure you understand what I'm saying here.)

It just strikes me that, on those rare but regular (two or three days per year) when Sydney gets fogged in, other carriers manage to get back on-track reasonably smoothly... what's different with the 'star?

[resboy]

The benefit other airlines have with "getting back on track" in a fog situ at SYD is the ability to cancel flights. QF and DJ operate high frequency, up to every 30 mins on some routes, so cancel a couple of MELs or BNEs, redistribute the pax and hey presto. QF also has a lot more slack in its schedules. DJ and JQ have it harder consistently running 30 mins turns with little aircraft downtime.

For JQ the ability to cancel flights is a bit harder though lack of frequency. In many cases the flight in question is the only one, or one of very few in the day ie no where to reaccommodate the pax without making things a bit messy (eg the HTI situ). For JQ, only SYD-OOL realistically has the frequency to sustain cancellations.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Market forces will eventually prevail.

Either irate passengers vote with their feet, or else look at the fare, and think better of leaving.

If SLF wants the security of an overnight hotel when things go pear-shaped, the airlines will eventually grasp this essential service item and price it into the ticket. What would it take- a couple of dollars a ticket to fund a passenger inconvenience reserve? (Someone fetch me an actuary).

VHCU

[Condition lever]

Taildragger,

Sort of can see where you are going with your post, but with the interests of keeping some facts straight - something sadly lacking in a majority of posts written about J* - J* does not operate A330s into or out of AVV.

Cheers

[Taildragger67]

Condition Lever,

My understanding (from the press articles) was that an A330 operating Honolulu-to-Sydney diverted into Avalon after it was figured out that it would miss the YSSY curfew. The pax were then accommodated and later moved to Sydney using JQ A320 equipment, which meant taking an A320 off domestic rotations, causing scheduling ripples on the domestic network.

What is unsaid in the press, is that at some stage, as the A330 was scheduled to operate into Sydney, presumably it would've been scheduled to subsequently operate out of Sydney again, so it (the A330) would've had to have been positioned back to Sydney from Avalon. So my original query stands.

[airbusthreetwenty]

Hey... soldier of fortune

So you say the cabin crew were locked in the flight deck with the tech crew... Would have been a little tight.. 'eh?

Bit like this...

http://media.funlol.com/content/img/world-record-21-persons.jpg


:E:O:E:E

[The Bullwinkle]

My understanding (from the press articles) was that an A330 operating Honolulu-to-Sydney diverted into Avalon after it was figured out that it would miss the YSSY curfew.
Please excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong but I thought International flights were permitted to land after curfew into Sydney?

[Taildragger67]

There appear (https://secure.dotars.gov.au/webforms/infopages/CurfewBrief.htm) to be some exclusions/exemptions, but at the moment there's apparently no quota for movements between 23.00 and midnight.

[speeeedy]

How did they clear customs in Avalon? Why didn't they go to Melbourne?

[Capt Kremin]

Apparently another two J* A330 captains have resigned. One or both of them were involved in these incidents, unrelated to their resignations I am sure.

[iss7002]

This is usually covered off by the company involved requesting a dispensation from the Department. Usually they seem to be readily available.

The question should be was an exemption requested, or why was it not granted?

[ANstar]

Not sure why the A330 was mentioned in the AVV diversion as the aircraft was an A320. It may have sounded like it said A330, but the article said the delays came after the HNL debarcle. Re-read it and it is A320 as it was ops HTI etc

As for the Jetblue email, it is great the sent that to their customers, but lets put it into perspecitive - that email was in response to over 5 days of cancellations. THe JQ one only affected a couple of hundred people.

[VH-Cheer Up]

As for the Jetblue email, it is great they sent that to their customers, but lets put it into perspective - that email was in response to over 5 days of cancellations. The JQ one only affected a couple of hundred people.

Surely the point is not the magnitude of the inconvenience but the fact they admitted they had dealt with it badly and they were promising to take steps to do better next time.

In contrast, SW is the head of defensive statements at J* and I've never heard him admit they've ever put a foot wrong. His attitude always seems to be that it's the punter's fault because they have excessively high expectations.

And for the price, perhaps they have.

Price. Speed. Service. Pick the two that matter most...

[soldier of fortune]

--from airbusthreetwenty--
"So you say the cabin crew were locked in the flight deck with the tech crew... Would have been a little tight.. 'eh?"

---well yeh- from what i can recall -i myself was very amazed that they could fit in the flight deck considering the size of some of the flight attenants that were on that flight--:hmm: :hmm: