Don't want to go where it's hot and sandy

[Pontius Navigator]

Not me you understand but someone it is my misfortune to know.

Chap is clearly a bit of a Walt. Joined the TA, I called him a STAB but his mum weren't amused. He was all gung ho, get some extra dosh, keep away from sponging ex etc etc

Now he has been warned for Afg and doesn't want to go.

What are the options? I know what I would like to do.:}

[samuraimatt]

Maybe he could leave the TA.

[Pontius Navigator]

That was his idea too. Only thing is, his boss keeps writing and telling him he is to report for duty.

Yes, TA can resign but can they take the shilling as long as it is convenient and then say sorry, that's too dangerous. What about having accepted a bounty?

[samuraimatt]

Not knowing the terms they join under it would make sense to me if he isn't happy with the idea of going to fight Tone's war then he has to leave.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Perhaps he should put a dress on and make a pass at his CO.

Of course if he were a bootie this would result in a promotion rather than a quick exit.;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Matt, I wonder just how late one can opt out? The TA would be a bag of w:mad: if they could just drop out after being warned for deployment training.

THS, you haven't seen him. His boss might just take it up, provided he shaved first. 30 yr old lean streak of pure p:mad:

[samuraimatt]

How many of the regular army are AWOL after coming back from deployments? If he isn't happy then he should do what feels right to him.

[Pontius Navigator]

Matt, good point. I think that is what he is banking on.

[Gnd]

When a regular unit gets warned for ops, they have a PVR/resignation ban put on them, this is right and proper if you serve the crown. The TA will probably have a similar order? The point probably is that he will be of little use in theater and may be a positive disadvantage; make him/her repay the bounty and off they go on their own merry way, safe in the knowledge that there non-motivated actions haven't been the cause of some poor unfortunates injury, or God forbid, death.

[Pontius Navigator]

Gnd, thanks you. IMHO he is a Walt (u/t). At 17 he was going to join the Royal Marines. He even went so far as to hang an iron bar from the roof of the garage.

At 27 he was going to join the RAF Regiment. This time he was serious and actually went to Honington. Mummy was horified that he had to spend the night in a hole in the ground.

After a full and thorough assessment the RAF Regiment suggested he might like to become a steward.

At 29 he joined the TA.

His qualifications are ()!


Another fine product of our state education system.

[diginagain]

I'm quite certain that those fine fellows at the British Army Rumour Network would be willing to give your friend as much advice as he could wish for.:}

[Jimmy Macintosh]

I had a friend at uni who joined the Army equiv of the UAS, can't remember what it was called, in order to make friends and socialise. Decided after a couple of weeks that it wasn't for them and resigned. About 5 years later they received a call up letter to go to the gulf. Apparently no matter how long she served she was down as a reserve for a minimum of ten years from resignation.

I don't know if it's simlar for the TA, but I didn't think the UAS equiv would be regarded as regular forces, I would have thought that it was more akin to the TA.

[ProfessionalStudent]

I believe that once you are under ntm, you no longer have the right to leave the Reserve Forces. If his boss (I trust he works and isn't a leech as well?) can prove that he is invaluable and unreplaceable to the business, it can be deferred.

Or we could get a firing squad together. Volunteers?

[An Teallach]

Jimmy Macintosh

Your chum is having you on. The OTC has no reserve or call-up liability whatsoever.

[airborne_artist]

Decided after a couple of weeks that it wasn't for them and resigned. About 5 years later they received a call up letter to go to the gulf. Apparently no matter how long she served she was down as a reserve for a minimum of ten years from resignation.

Are you certain? Sounds totally implausible to me. UOTC can not be mobilised, period, as they have no wartime/operational role. TA soldiers still at university (you can join TA instead of the OTC while at university) can not be mobilised until they graduate/leave.

The solution for Walter Wannabe is to get himself onto a university course that commences before his unit returns from Afg. He'll probably get discharged, at worst he'll be able to defer until he graduates.

[An Teallach]

PN - Your 'friend' is a bit of a chump for joining the TA in the current climate anyway. If a soldier has family committments, then any benefits accruing to his family if he comes to grief come from the AFPS. TA service not being pensionable, the family gets next to sod all.

Many TA soldiers were quite happy to train to 'do their bit' defending the homeland, but a lot less are prepared to spend 6 months away sandyside on non-pensionable service being passed over in their civvy jobs to bale out the overstretched regular forces. Especially when, if the worst happens your family is up the creek or, if you are wounded, you are told to go and see your GP at home.

Using the TA as a cheap stop gap for the regular army is killing the TA. I wouldn't like to be a jobhunter with 'currently a member of the TA' on my CV. Who is going to employ you and risk losing you for 6 months at a time?

[Pontius Navigator]

Diginagain, yeah, I was worried about the other forum :).

An Teallach, he is not smart enough to be a chump. He married this tart who already had a son after he got her pregnant. Apparently marriage had not been on her career plan so she ditched him as soon as she could but uses him as a baby sitter and the MinL as a source of free clothing for his daughter and the other bastard son.

PS, I am not sure if he has an NTM as we thought he had actually left the TA. More likely, knowing him he probaby just stopped going to training sessions but still hase the kit.

Essential skilled worker, my arse.

[Jimmy Macintosh]

I understand the scepticism, granted she was probably a special case. She was doing medicine at the time, she had graduated and been working for a couple of years. But yes, she went away for a tour. Hard to fake the trip!
The only thing I could doubt was how long she was actually with the unit before she resigned. The rest happened.

[diginagain]

PN, despite your admirable intentions, you really ought to steer your friend over there. It's rather quiet this evening.

Reading between the lines, it looks as if 'mummy' could be a big part of your friend's inability to find his way in the World.

[Jimlad1]

Call me cynical, but even if he PVR's, he's still likely to buy himself the medal for services rendered. Whatever happens we can expect him to Walt it up for life.

[topgas]

If he wasn't prepared to deploy, he shouldn't have joined. We make it quite clear to any applicants that it is not a case of "if" but "when", and if that makes them unhappy, maybe they should consider St John Ambulance/Scouts/Guides. He must be pretty dim if he didn't see this coming. Why exactly did he think HMG was paying him to do (mainly) enjoyable things?

if he comes to grief come from the AFPS. TA service not being pensionable, the family gets next to sod all.
Not true - once mobilised, eligible for AFPS (but can opt to stay in employer scheme) and has same death in service benefits. It's the ordinary TA service that doesn't get a pension, but it wouldn't be worth much at 28 days' service per year


What about having accepted a bounty?


Bounty is paid at the end of the training year (tax free) so wouldn't have to be repaid on leaving.

He could try taking all his kit in to the QM and say "I resign", deservedly reaping loads of :mad: from all those members of all the Reserve Forces who haven't taken such a lily-livered option, has apparently worked in the past. If he's got the brown envelope, which, if his boss knows about it he probably has, then he's shafted, although he can appeal (but still has to report when stated or expect a visit from RMP). Perhaps I should appeal on his behalf on the grounds that I don't want that kind of t:mad: guarding me when I go on my 3rd deployment later this year. (BTW thanks to all the SH crews for the fantastic service they give without complaint)

As they say, if you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined

[C130 Techie]

Perhaps I should appeal on his behalf on the grounds that I don't want that kind of t guarding me when I go on my 3rd deployment later this year.

Thats a very good point which was also made earlier. It creates a potentially dangerous situation for anyone who has to rely on this pratt in theatre and for that reason he should probably not be allowed into any operational theatre. However, there should be a significant personal consequence to his chosen course.

[Pontius Navigator]

topgas, thank you for the facts. Now we have to find out just how far up the creek he is.

Mummy's boy? Yup, she does the ironing, pays his bills, fines, credit cards etc etc. She will be relieved not to have to pay his bounty back.

[YesTAM]

I suggest a period of incarceration that matches the deployment time followed by a dishonourable discharge.

In my day they were supposed to stay in for five years, but we just let 'em go if they didn't want to train, pointless having them around, and a waste of resources.

[JessTheDog]

First of all, I have to confess that (in the highly unlikely event) I would discard my own brown envelope in the bin if it meant fighting any of Bliar's wars (note: in my case fighting would perhaps not be the correct term to use, but you know what I mean). That is the root cause of why I PVRd and I am still angry enough to mean exactly what I say. :=
Having exposed my own shameful (if principled) lack of volunteering ethos (let's see Euan Blair out in the desert) I can now offer my opinion.
1. As pointed out, the chap should not really have joined, particularly after April 2003! (I joined before Bliar's Mussolini-like tendencies became manifest)
2. He will be a liability and an administrative burden, if not an actual danger to his comrades. He could have the guts to say "I'm not going" and make his reasons known. If his unit had any sense it would discharge him, as the British Armed Forces has a volunteer ethos.
3. Alternatively, he could develop a sudden enthusiasm for the smoking of the cannabis plant, "skinning up" in the drill hall for example. :\

[JessTheDog]

She will be relieved not to have to pay his bounty back.

He earned the bounty? He must have been doing something right!

As an aside, in this bizarre topsy-turvy world, active service on call-out does not count towards the bounty award. :mad:

[cokecan]

PN,

your 'aquaintence' has only two real options if he is to avoid service in the sandpits.

the first is to march into his OC's office and declare that he cannot, in all concience, deploy to Iraq and that he is prepared to accept the consequences. with luck his OC will get rid of him within the week on anything that comes to hand - as witnessed by the episode of Tpr Griffin of 22SAS - without luck his OC will push the matter and he could end up in Colchester.

the other option is to pretend to be all warry and go to chilwell as the fattest, most useless lump of illtrained **** the DS have ever seen. they'll probably give him remedial training, but with talent he could keep up the act for long enough to get RTU'd and then discharged.

this is of course assuming his employer can't be convinced to put in the 'special case' for him. i had heard that some 45% of call-ups were binned through employer action. not sure how accurate that figure is, but its been bandied about for a while.

i don't approve, i think he's a disgusting piece of rectal detritus, but if he doesn't want to go then he should be kept well away for the safety of those around him.

[Il Duce]

There is another way out - strangely enough it was how my visit to Afghanistan was brought forward. On the day of receiving his notice to get ready for OOA, the person nominated for this particular tour "twisted his back" whilst getting out of his car. No coincidence there whatsoever. The SMO signed him off as downgraded and away I went.

[samuraimatt]

That won't work if he has no spine.:E

[Il Duce]

Excellent point!

[James Leite]

Pontius Navigator;

Now that you have had a day or two to settle down and regain your composure don't you think upon reflection that your rapid fire " thank you Danny " smacks of forelock touching or working class deference. It seemed to me to be at odds with your desperate efforts to project an entirely different image.

James.

[c130jbloke]

Oh cr@p, :mad: is back !!!!
OK PN, what did you do this time to pi§§ him off ? Furthermore, what wrong with working class...
James, another point to consider is that your last 2 threads got you pilloried by other users prior to being shut down by the mods. What sort of "image" does that project ?
:ok:

[An Teallach]

Jings, PN! you have a cyber-stalker. Be afraid, be very afraid. I think he fancies you!

[Pontius Navigator]

An Teallach, really, I hadn't noticed :} . Ways and means Sir, ways and means.

Cokecan,

chilwell as the fattest, most useless lump of illtrained **** the DS have ever seen.

He has the shape and strength of a size 5 knitting needle.

Jess,

I do believe Alternatively, he could develop a sudden enthusiasm for the smoking of the cannabis plant, that this would not be sudden.

"skinning up" in the drill hall for example. do tell this ignorant person what this is.

No JL, not you but you are ignorant, definitely ignorable, abd best ignored.

[cornish-stormrider]

AAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH, Can someone please fit a warning bell/alarm to go on every thread that the "course ******" subscribes to, I was reading this thread with interest when I tripped and fell into the pile of drivel spouted by JL.....

[JagRigger]

I just keep getting visions of that guy from 'The Office'..........

[c-bert]

I just keep getting visions of that guy from 'The Office'..........
You want to see the doctor about that... :}

[midsomerjambo]

It's truly amazing isn't it? I have seen a few posts by this self-opinionated PC t0$$er and nothing in response that in any way indicates he has any allies or friends. You'd have thought he would have got the message by now but I guess some people are just so thick-skinned that nothing gets through. On the other hand, it could be indicative of latent sado-masochistic tendencies. I hope to God he's not a serving member of HM Forces, but if he is, I'm glad I'm not any more - pity there isn't a t0$$er smiley :O (mind you, you can't see what this little guy's hands are up to can you?).

MSJ

[James Leite]

c130jbloke;
While typing that wake up call to my comrade Pontius Navigator I almost wrote "the visceral attachment of a dog to his master " ( I rather like that word visceral as it says so much ) but then thought " I had better not write that " so I didn't. Am I learning ?

James.

[An Teallach]

Oh Lordy! He's attached to words like 'visceral'. Be even more afraid, PN. I think I've identified him:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Fumanchulee.jpg

[Lomon]

He could of course go to his local town hall, present himself to the returning officer with his deposit and stand as an indepenant candidiate for election at the next general election. (You can't be a member of the Armed forces whilst standing for election)

If, perish the thought, the constituents actually elect him he can then lobby for bumper pay rises for the Armed Forces :D

[Pontius Navigator]

An Teallach, our friend is clearly not a round-eyed ginge. He is clearly an inscrutable oriental as he has not the faintest idea of the British class structure. Anyone properly brought up would realised that "Thank you m'lud" or "Thankee Master" is far more working-class than "Thank you Danny".

"Thank you Danny" is quite the reverse of what our inscrutable scrote has implied.

We shall see what transpires.

I see our oriental fiend has slipped one in. Now I was indeed on the triangle at primary school. I wanted the cymbals but they insisted on the triangle. Then later their airships decided that triangles were indeed the thing for me and I spent many years on the triangles.

[Pontius Navigator]

Lomon, I believe that trick no longer works. If you get elected then I believe that lets you out. As a member of the reserve however I don't think it applies at all , remember Mark Lancaster.

[c130jbloke]

I didn't mention this earlier as I did not wish to overload you but I must say your reference to the pillory is most unkind. I would not dream of saying that about Pontius Navigator but I must tell you I'd be in favour of him spending some time on a triangle.

PN:

I think you must have really pi§§ed him off with that quote of yours !!

James:

Say whatever ! Better still, say nothing, for ever and ever and ever...............

[c130jbloke]

PN:
Now he's got you where he wants you :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: ...

Why don’t you hook up the original subject of this thread (det dodgeing walt) with our new best friend (a :mad: idiot )? That way, they keep each other happy and out of our lives.

[midsomerjambo]

Is it just me, or does anyone else agree, judging by the content of his posts, that JL may be rather over-fond of mind-altering substances? Leave them alone James, in the end they'll damage your brain. Hmm....

MSJ

[Pontius Navigator]

MSJ, too late.

http://z14.invisionfree.com/kaka_22/index.php?showtopic=1522

[JessTheDog]

I do believe
Quote:
Alternatively, he could develop a sudden enthusiasm for the smoking of the cannabis plant,

that this would not be sudden.

Quote:
"skinning up" in the drill hall for example.

do tell this ignorant person what this is.


:}

I believe "skinning up" is what a chap does when he crumbles his cannabis or hashish resin into a lengthy cigarette paper lined with the finest Virginia tobacco. The Middle Eastern types have some sort of pipe arrangement, perhaps this practice could be adopted to blend in, like the beards and whatnots. I have also heard of something called a "roach" and I imagine this to be some sort of insect with hallucinogenic properties that is similarly smoked.

Another thought occurred to me: why doesn't this white feather collector* apply for discharge on the premise he is joining the regular Armed Forces. He could then simply fail to complete the basic training for whatever reason. Of course, there is a chance that he might end up in direst danger anyway, finding that his cowardly attempts to avoid combat lead to inadvertent and unintentional acts of heroism. Is there a book in that?

(*note: as an avowed Bliar war-dodger, I am aware that this is the equivalent of a pot of urine calling a daffodill "yellow".)

[Pontius Navigator]

Jess, I congratulate you on the breadth of your knowledge an dthe depth of your research :} . Me, I didn't even know that our local war memorial was a favourite with very friendly young ladies 16 and under.

Another thought occurred to me: why doesn't this white feather collector* apply for discharge on the premise he is joining the regular Armed Forces.

You weren't paying attention. He was rejected by the Rocks already.

[BluntedAtBirth]

Had you considered getting a few Service mates round and laughing like drains at his discomfort? While its not much help either way you may all enjoy the occasion...

[Green Flash]

ZH, thanks for that. Thought I was going totally nuts for a minute.

JL dear thing; I feel not in the least concerned about your postings. Why? - cos I ain't got a Scooby what you are on about. I can't take anythng you say either seriously or with derision because I just don't understand you. Simple lad, me.

[diginagain]

He was rejected by the Rocks already.

Jeez, the poor lamb must be feeling suicidal.

[Squirrel 41]

PN
With apologies for returning to the topic, if the papers have dropped through the door, yer "man" is going to be mobilised - normally with four weeks notice in my RAuxAF unit at the moment. AFAIK, if his company were to appeal it, this appeal would occur concurrently with his induction to service and as these things can drag on, he may well find himself out in the land of sand whilst this process continues.

As has been said before - don't join the reserves today unless you fancy going OOA; in time, you will. (And quite probably, more than once.)

S41

Edited for modneet spooling

[BEagle]

Whilst it is true that call-out notices delivered to an individual's address are deemed to have been served, as far as the MoD is concerned, to bring any successful prosecution it is necessary to confirm that the papers were delivered to the person in question. Hence they should be sent by recorded delivery and the signature of the recipient confirmed as being that of the reservist being called-out.

If Walt is away back-packing around Utter Magnolia or wherever (unlikely in this case if the streak of yellow p*ss in question is as wet as you describe, PN), the fact that Mummy signs for his call-out notice cannot reasonably be considered as meaning that he has been served with his call-out notice.

Walt's only safe avenue (unless he fails the medical or has an employment exemption) is to respond lawfully, then declare that he has a conscientious objection to Bliar's adventurismin Iraqhistan.

Joining the TA to defend one's country is one thing; being called out to one of Bliar's overseas campaigns is surely another. However, if Walt joined the TA after the 2003 invasion of Iraq when wide-scale call-outs began, then he can't really have any excuse of conscientious objection as he clearly must have known what he was letting himself in for.

[Pontius Navigator]

Thanks for all the enterainment and also the good advice. I shall watch with interest what unfolds as he and his family are not known for listening to good advice from people who might know and would prefer going to people that don't know.

I'll let you know if it turns out that it was not just a Walt ploy.

[WASALOADIE]

He could always put his pants on his head, a couple of pencils up his nose and say "wibble"


Otherwise tell the wimp to get on with it.

[teeteringhead]

I just keep getting visions of that guy from 'The Office'...............

... but have you seen his website?? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/theoffice/gareth/)

[BEagle]

"He could always put his pants on his head, a couple of pencils up his nose and say "wibble" "

Wouldn't that be more likely to get him promoted?

Baaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!

[Brian Abraham]

Jim (hope you'r not Thai as it has an indelicate meaning there),
the visceral attachment of a dog to his master
The quote would indeed be true if PN could be described as my comrade Pontius Navigator Comrades do indeed have a visceral attatchment to their masters.
I think reading of PN's previous life that the only dealings he may have had with any comrades would have been to bring a little ray of sun shine into their lives (I lie, actually bucket loads of it). But he never got the opportunity. :E