CX RPIC no longer a requirement

[Rice Pudding]

It amuses me that since the airline have entered a period of large expansion coincident with a pilot shortage that the command pass rate has increased significantly, and they are slowly doing away with the qualification and experience requirements that they are now finding to be quite restrictive.

They are now so short on crew that getting sufficient RPIC pilots to crew the freighters has become a problem. As from May 1st they are doing away with the RPIC requirement, and all new First Officers will be able to perform the duty - which up until now required an intensive training programme and more than a year on type.

It's interesting to watch the supply / Demand forces at work.

[7FF]

I think it has more to do with the lack of experienced F/O's, sorry 'creatures', when the ULH starts up on the 777.
Now you know what the management really thinks of you.........:uhoh:
I always wondered what RPIC stood for. Relief Pilot Is (a) Creature.

[Nullaman]

GMF Update - A Fresh Look at RP/RPIC

Anyone else fall asleep halfway thru'?

Bit like the 'yawnogram' on freighter flying....

What on earth are they teaching managers these days?

:ugh: :rolleyes: :ugh:

[Rice Pudding]

Or it could also be to do with the fact that a couple of F/O's resigned and joined Korean as direct entry captains. Korean took their RPIC time over the years to mean an aweful lot of P1 under supervision, and offered them left seat.

[404 Titan]

Rice Pudding

I think you will find it doesn’t matter one little bit whether they are a JFO or FO who is RP or RPIC, if he or she is PF they log P1 and in the “Holder’s Operating Capacity” they log P1US. RPIC can be placed in the remarks column if you so wish. Page “V” part “9” of your HKCAD logbook explains it fairly clearly.

I have known about this change coming for about a month now. It is more a case of limited sectors and resources and trying to expand the airline than anything else, i.e. not wasting resources. I find it very hard to believe that Korean Airlines mistook P1US as P1 in the relevant FO’s log book if it was filled out correctly.

[sizematters]

he didn't say anyone mistook anything.................Korean, air china and some others will offer left seat to "Experienced Relief Commanders"

the shortage is really beginning to bite, don't you know........................strange how 150 or so previously Cat B F/O's have suddenly been reclassified as Cat A and the star Chamber has stopped rejecting people for some minor infraction 5 years past !!!!

[energie]

somehow i read about this too. I was wondering, what happens to the SO if RP designation is no more. what else can they do? :rolleyes:

[404 Titan]

sizematters

If they are that is great but that’s not what they are saying in their job add. RPIC is a Cathay thing, not a HKCAD or ICAO recognised term.
Job Description
Captain - UK - Flight crew

Captain Vacancies
B737NG, B744 & B777
500 hrs PIC on type, 2000hrs Airline PIC.
UK and Worldwide bases available, commuting 5 year contract
Excellent terms and conditions.


Job Description
B744 First Officer - UK - Flight crew

B744 First Officer vacancies
500 hrs F/O on type, 1000 Airline Hrs.
UK and Worldwide bases available, commuting 5 year contract
Excellent terms and conditions.
The main point I was making was in reference to Rice Pudding’s quote:
RPIC counts a P1 u/s
This would indicate to me that Rice Pudding doesn’t know when to log P1US or Korean Airlines are counting P1US as command time if you have a lot of it?

energie
what happens to the SO if RP designation is no more.
Nothing really. Any FO in time (as long as they are appropriately licensed) will be able to sit with an SO. Their duty will be classified as RQ instead of RP or RPIC.

[Sqwak7700]

Actually, as RPIC, you woud log less P1U/S time than when you are FO. You can't log P1U/S if you aren't the handling pilot for landing or takeoff. So you shouldn't be logging time spent as RPIC as P1U/S unless it is your sector.

Since most RPICs get less sectors than when they where FOs, you are actually logging less P1U/S.

On a side note, I like how the memo said that they aren't changing this requirement due to shortage of crews. Yeah right. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that most of the guys leaving are RPIC on the freighter. By the way, where is this pay talk you told us we would discuss once rostering practices were negotiated? :ugh: I'm just happy I voted NO to both. Makes me feel better...

The good thing is that if they are getting rid of this ridiculous RPIC stuff, hopefully the even dumber PCA is next. I know, whishfull thinking. But hey, many planes on the horizon with retirements and attrition might lead them to see the light. :ok:

[preset]

Oh yeah, let's just do away with standards, experience etc & give everybody a command then we don't need a process to assess all that unnecessary stuff :rolleyes:
I'll just make sure my family flies with another carrier.

[climbout]

It's not all about experience! - it's more about a proper selection process when joining the airline as FO/SO, as it is done by BA,LH,KLM etc.
If recruited, it's a question of seniority, to get your command.
(Unfortunately, many CX trainers have never done this kind of selection in the early days of CX- it was more about:
Who knows someone in the - "Well Paid HKG Flying Club"

In CX, it's about 'how lucky you are in getting the "right" check captains = managing your ERAS.
But it seems that people are waking up now - "in company words":
Pilots taking a "FRESH LOOK" .......

[preset]

No, it's not all about experience but anyone who has been involved in selection knows it's not a perfect process no matter how good the selector is. BA, QF etc have their problems as well. Seniority gives career stability not a guarantee that standards will be met.
Oh that it were all so simple.

[Saturn]

I think that Capt RH is the perfect man for the job he is doing. He is not only a nice chap but also a "Big Picture"person. We can all speculate on why they are making the changes but I agree entirely with what he wrote. The whole RPIC thing is old and needed to be changed. If it helps them and us so be it. I'd much rather have the sectors than do double crossing/W patterns and PXing all over the place.

Now about Korean, I have been contacted by them for an F/O on 744. Now I am and RPIC and have previous command in jets blag blah blah. I asked about command and they have said RPIC TIME DOES NOT COUNT. I have no interest in Korean as I know a few blokes over there and they said it is horrible. I don't need a command that bad. I have a few small airplanes I have access too and have all the command time I could want. Anyone know this lyric; "Sleep with one eye open, gripping your pillow tight". Probably sums up being at KAL expat Captain. I did hear though that if you go to Korea to see them personally they will put you in the left seat. Good Luck with all that.
:{

[Five Green]

Saturn :

Don't forget "take my hand...off to never, never land.."

Also how is it the Korean is calling you ? Weird they never called me..hmmm

Silber: Never one to shoot down good rumours with facts but....most FOs do not get their relief after 2 years. The current pay scales are based on time served in position FO year 1-4 then SFO year 1-4. So SFO year 1-4 is actually just year 5-8 FO. No loss of pay for loosing you relief at the moment. Nor is there any pay raise (rise) for getting relief early.

What bothers me is the contradictions. We don't want to make it tough like other airlines but.... Also the current checkers are deciding to take matters into their own hands and make sure that the initial check for an FO is to relief line check standards. Which you would think should be the same for any FO but is not. So it would seem that requiring extra sectors will increase on your initial JFO or DEFO course.

Can't wait to get my first route briefing exam !

Happy thoughts ...happy thoughts.....

[Numero Crunchero]

silberfuchs, are you sure that they got paid as SFO1 as soon as they got RPIC? I thought it was purely a substantive promotion. I dont remember any FO telling me he was winning/losing money due to RPIC qualification!

[Loopdeloop]

NC - correct. RPIC has no bearing on pay or rank. The central stripe gets thicker with the RPIC qualification, but there are plenty of F/O's around with 3 thick and plenty of SFO's around with 2 thick and a thin at present!

[asianeagle]

NC - correct. RPIC has no bearing on pay or rank. The central stripe gets thicker with the RPIC qualification, but there are plenty of F/O's around with 3 thick and plenty of SFO's around with 2 thick and a thin at present!

are you saying I`m thick???:8
I not very cleva but I can pik up heavy fings!!!!

[Rice Pudding]

Over the last year the S/O upgrades have slowed down, with the effect that proportionally we now have more S/O's and fewer F/O's (obviously fewer RPIC!). Some other airlines operate their ULH with One Captain, one F/O and 2 S/O's.

Could CX be gearing slowly towards this ? It would be the perfect cost saving measure on all ULH flights.

This fits in very well with overcoming the cost of additional training requirements for S/O's. It has the added advantage that operating frontseat crews remain more current as they get more sectors. And it alleviates the current lack of training sectors on the -400 for conversions, and is a simple way for the airline to expand quickly with the current shortage of crew.

[fire wall]

True to form Silberfuchs , never let the truth stand in the way.