Remaining seated on the ground

[AdamC]

First of all, im not 100% sure if this is in the correct forum, appologies if not.

I fail to understand when after the instruction is given by the cabin crew to remain seated with seatbelts securily fastened until the seatbelt sign has been turned off, people seem to be deaf and all get up and start getting hand luggage etc out of lockers.

But, my question is; Why do we have to remain seated? I understand the safety aspect of it, however surely its much more dangerous traveling a hell of alot more faster at 38000ft.

If anyone knows the actual reason(s) for this, i'd be pleased to hear! :)

Adam.

[A2QFI]

Passengers are asked to remain seated, SFAIK, so that they will not fall or be injured in the unlikely event that the aircraft has to make an emergency stop while taxying. It has been mentioned elsewhere that pilots have been known to do an 'emergency' stop to make the point to cretins who are standing up!

[wiggy]

That's pretty much correct - We are unlikely to perform an "'emergency stop" whist airborne :} but on the ground there's a whole host of reasons why we may need to stop quickly...e.g. from a sudden failure of the stand guidance system, to being "cut up" by ground traffic ( yes, it does happen). Also if you are standing up at the back of some of the longer aircraft when they are cornering on the ground you'll find the ride somewhat "interesting", even when taxiing slowly.

[AdamC]

I knew there was a reason more far fetched than what I could think of!

But, if thats the case, why are the cabin crew not required to be in their seats during taxi? (Well, they are on the after-landing taxi, but not on the departure taxi) - I am aware they are checking the cabin to ensure it's secure, but this could be done at the gate, along with the safety demo! - Cabin crew are just like me, and every other passenger, they could go flying to the flight deck door just as much! - Wouldn't that ensure complete safety, to ensure no human missiles where fired across to the flight deck?

[GW76]

What annoys me is the cabin crew very rarely do anything about it. Its alsways the same sorts that do it- you can spot them a mile off. Usually the ones who bound up to the gate desk thinking they can board -oblivious to the fact the rest of the passengers are sitting patiently at the gate.:ugh:

[wiggy]

Stop asking awkward questions....:)
You have a good point but this one probably comes down to economics: if we stayed put on the gate after the doors were closed so that Cabin briefs and checks could be done prior to taxi then it would slow down the whole departure "process". Not only would it delay the flight going out it would possibly deny the use of the gate to inbound aircraft.
Having said that it a good idea for the crew to spend as little time walking around as possible and behoves us at the front to keep the taxiing as gentle as possible.

[dustybin]

I think it's also insurance reasons too. If the aircraft suddenly moves and the seat belt sign is on and the crew have mentioned in their PA to stay seated and you hurt yourself, you don't have a leg to stand on(pardon the pun) Its the same with turbulence, really makes me angry when parent wont secure their wee bundles of joy "cause they don't like being strapped in":ugh: Know of one case were the passenger knew better and wouldn't fasten their seat belt in turbulence and ended up badly injured and is now trying to sue the company:hmm:
If crew are injured carrying out their duties they are insured by the company.

[Cumulogranite]

When taxying at a major airfield, the field is broken up into different areas. When outbound you are pushed back off the stand and then taxy to the runway. The basics (without getting into the nitty gritty of CAP642) is that the nearer the runway you get, the more sterile it is from vehicular traffic. On that basis any cutting up that might happen is unlikely as you are heading to a more strile area, and the push back crew were responsible for making sure the rear of stand road was clear. However, when inbound the reverse applies. As you get nearer the gate you become less sterile from ground based problems such as vehicles, badly parked equipment, broken stand guidance systems and so-on. The last thing that the aircraft will do before entering the stand is cross the rear of stand road (if there is one). You would be surprised how many airside drivers apply the same standards as they have on the open roads and "take a chance" Then there is the question of where has the handling agent parked the equipment ready to service the aircraft on the ground, is any of it in the way? Because there are so many available pitfalls that is why everyone should be strapped in until the aircraft is fully parked, but as we know there are those that can't be told, know best, and hopefuly get injured in the process.

[Leezyjet]

Those people that stand up are the ones that the pathetic airline rules don't apply to. They are far too important to be bothered by silly rules and regulations like that and it means that they can get off the aircraft first, despite the fact they are sitting at row 60something and will have to wait for everyone else to get off anyway :rolleyes:

I've never understood the facination myself, you still have to queue at Immigration and baggage reclaim, so why risk yourself and others by standing up before the aircraft has stopped.

A family member of mine was badly injured whilst being moved by the cabin crew during taxi which resulted in a fall down the stairs of a 747, and has since lead to that airline reviewing their procedures when passengers need to be moved before take-off so the Captain now has to be informed so the a/c can be stationary whilst it is done. (She also got a nice payout from the airline because of it too. ;) )

Alot of people also do not realise how powerful aircraft brakes are, they really can stop quickly when at taxi speed (well they are designed to slow the a/c from landing speeds on touchdown or takeoff speed on a rejected take off so they have to be damn powerful).

Also as the passengers cannot see out of the front they are unable to prepare themselves for the imminent stop which almost always catches them out and throws them off balance when they are standing.

As someone stated, it is upto the crew to enforce this. I have been on many flights where the crew simply do not bother, so once one does it, another does and so on. If they made an announcment straight away, then that would nip it in the bud. I have been on flights too where the crew have used embarrasment to get the offender to sit down, along the lines of "will the guy in the blue shirt standing in the aisle please sit down until the a/c has come to a stop and the seat belt signs are turned off". This usually results in everyone else turning round to look at said offender who quickly sits back down and is usually rather :O
:)

[GW76]

"will the guy in the blue shirt standing in the aisle please sit down until the a/c has come to a stop and the seat belt signs are turned off".
Yes thats what we need more of that, although sometimes even that just washes over these sorts:rolleyes:

[Hartington]

While I accept that there are people who think they are too important for these rules I can't help thinking that in many cases the issue is a mixture of culture and language. I've noticed that some destinations seem to attract a bigger mix of people standing early than others (and it's been to both "holiday" and "business" destinations). Travelling on English speaking carriers the crew then try and get everyone to sit down but only by asking in English which fails partly because people simply don't listen and partly because the PA is inadequate for the job and partly because of a language barrier.

I think the BA idea of a recording of the safety information in a range of languages is a good one that could be taken further. You exit the runway, the crew welcome you to wherever and tell you local time and not to stand up but it's all in the national language of the airline (or English). Maybe doing it in the language of the destination would also help.

[Golden Ticket]

I've always done a landing PA which includes a mention of the above, I even started doing another mention as we pulled onto stand, there are some long distances to the gate and we transport a lot of goldfish at our airline. It never made any difference, even if I used the language of our destination/departure country. Basically people will only stop doing this when they see somebody's head squashed all over the place and then only a couple of hundred are converted.

[WHBM]

Its always the same sorts that do it- you can spot them a mile off. Usually the ones who bound up to the gate desk thinking they can board -oblivious to the fact the rest of the passengers are sitting patiently at the gate.
No doubt because as they get to the gate they find the ground crew have already set the monitor to "Boarding". Yes, even with the incoming aircraft not even on stand yet.

[potatowings]

In a post earlier it was asked why cabin crew don't secure the cabin at the gate and do safety briefs there, well airport gates are precious real estate and time needs to be used eficiently, therefore taxy is the perfect 'wasted' time to perform this role.

As a pilot I try to taxy as smoothly as is possible, but there are circumstances where this isn't always possible.

It's for every passengers safety. And if a passenger stands, particularly in turbulence, they are not only putting the safety of other passengers at risk, but importantly, potentially forcing a member of crew to leave their seat to sit them back down, and I would be very annoyed if any crew were injured as a result of a obstonate passengers.

[AdamC]

"It's for every passengers safety. And if a passenger stands, particularly in turbulence, they are not only putting the safety of other passengers at risk, but importantly, potentially forcing a member of crew to leave their seat to sit them back down, and I would be very annoyed if any crew were injured as a result of a obstonate passengers."

I totally agree, 100%. Just a shame people cannot understand that when the seatbelt sign is on, it means its not safe to get up and move about the cabin.

People will proberbly continue to do it for many times to come.. But surely, it's not so much to ask? - If the crew are up and walking during turbulence, passengers should simply ask them as they are walking past for them to get a bag from the overhead for them, or ask to ask the flight deck if the passenger can go to the loo.. But no, people just get up and do as they please.

A few hard words from the flight deck should sort them out though, something along the lines of "The seatbelt sign is here for a reason, if you fail to observe it do not come complaining to me or the airline when your in hospital because of your actions" - Okay, maybe not that harsh, but thats what they deserve to be told.

[iain8867]

With the idea of the demo and securing the cabin whilst at the gate here are my views on that.

The airline I work for as soon as the doors are closed we arm them for emergency situations, we then immediately do our demo and secure the cabin and sit down, on my last flight I only got home this morning, we did just that. we were all sitting at our stations wait to leave when a passenger gets up 'cause they need the toilet, and believe me no matter what we said they were going to go!! So at least when the aircraft is moving people seem more inclined to hold on to there bladder and bowel contents till we are in the air

Also the first airline I ever worked for after leaving the active runway the rear facing crew used to stand at there seats, still in a braced position if we stopped. I saw, I would say a 5-6 yr old jumping about on there seat, I headed down to say please sit the child down in case we have to stop suddenly, at that we braked really hard, I just managed to stay on my feet, holing on to the seat backs and the child hit the seat in front and slid down to the floor. I looked at the parent/guardian and just said that is the reason you need to stay seated! The child wasn't hurt, just shaken up and the parent tried to sue and failed!

Another bug bear of mine is turbulence...................I have had seat belts come on for turbulence and whilst checking seat belts had a PA from the flight deck for the crew to sit down for severe turbulence, when crew hear that we normally sit in the nearest seat. I sat in a passenger seat as it was vacant and fastened the belt, It got quite rough, then I was asked by the passenger next to me to move as SHE needed the toilet!!!!! The look on her face changed as we hit the next speed bump and she hit the overheads as she had already removed her seat belt!! She had a nasty bump and a bruise but was other wise OK But as other have said it just amazes me that people think these things are for everyone else but not them.

As crew when we ask people to remain seated there is normally a good reason for it

[apaddyinuk]

At the end of the day, I have no problem whatsoever of some numb nut putting themselves at risk by getting out of their seat early (at my airline NO crew member is allowed to leave their seat unless there is a problem until the Pilots advices us to place doors in manual) and injuring themselves. What I do have a problem with is with said numb nut impacting onto another passenger or crew member should the aircraft make any jolts and injuring that person. I have seen the most horrific fractured skull as a result once before. I have a very firm (yet polite) PA which I make as soon as I see restless people start to stand up too soon and it always gets them back in their seats!

[Final 3 Greens]

What I do have a problem with is with said numb nut impacting onto another passenger or crew member should the aircraft make any jolts and injuring that person. I have seen the most horrific fractured skull as a result once before. I have a very firm (yet polite) PA which I make as soon as I see restless people start to stand up too soon and it always gets them back in their seats!

Spot on.

[daedalus]

Apart from the quotation above which continues...and never sit when you can lie down.....I'm utterly confused as to why so many pax are in such a hurry to go and wait for their luggage.

Even if they only have cabin baggage I fail to see the need for rushing. Apart from anything else, you stand up and are then stuck standing while the steps are brought up and the doors opened, which can take quite a while.

I always remain seated until practically all other pax are off and then saunter freely down the empty aisle. Apart from anything else it gives me time to remember things I might otherwise forget.::confused: