Rex; Pilot Exodus

[Naverick]

Historically, regional airlines have been a traditional stepping stone into major airline positions, both here and overseas. On the other hand, they have also been the home of pilots wishing to maintain a comfortable flying career, though not highly lucrative, nevertheless providing relatively quick progression to captaincy.

With reference to the title of this thread, most FO's and a large number of captains are actively seeking positions elsewhere. It seems that there are not many crewmembers at Rex, who view the company with long term committment.

Vacant command positions, if they can be occupied, will be filled by inexperienced FO's in the not too distant future. This begs the question, where will the new recruits come from with Rex, Q'link, Pelair, etc. trawling a dwindling supply of quality IFR pilots.

Must the Rex owners/management simply cough up more money to maintain current staffing levels. Lets face it circa 70k capt, early 40k's FO's in this day and age are not 'comfortable' incomes, especially for those guys and girls living in Sydney with mortgages to repay and mouths to feed.

Also, must working conditions improve whereby crew are provided with a greater level of support pre and post flight. Should FO's be rushing around airports completing trim sheets, escorting pax and in some cases taking responsibility for unacommpanied minors. Must F/A's be responsible for not only cleaning the cabin and ordering supplys, but also dealing with unaccommpanied minors which on some occasions require waiting inside the terminal for the guardian/parent to attend, all of this inside a turnaround time of 35-40mins. Remember the swiss cheese model that is rightfully drummed into all crew once a year ?

Firstly, all flight crew renumeration must be addressed urgently!
It was recently published that Rex are now arguably, one of the most profitable airlines in the world. It is now time to start sharing this wealth with the people who create it. Pilots at Rex are speaking with their feet. This is not to say that simply more money will disuade pilots leaving for greener pastures, however, improved salaries will make some crew think twice.

Working conditions MUST be improved. Flightcrew and F/A's need more support on the ground, especially if OTP is to be achieved at the desired levels. More importantly, if this support isn't forthcoming the fatigue levels that crew are currently enduring, could lead to worse than just a late departure. Safety after all, is the number 1 priority.

Unfortunately morale at Rex is low. There's no two ways about it. This can be turned around quite easily. Investment in 'new' equipment (B++) will prove to be profitable.

Investment in the people who use this equipment, will prove to be priceless...

[wrongwayaround]

Hear hear....

Couldn't have said it better myself

http://www.emotihost.com/glass8/23.gif

[Erin Brockovich]

This is going to be a very familiar story Australia wide. I am coming to the unfortunate conclusion that it’s not going to be rosy pursuing a long term career at these regional ‘airlines’.

Let’s face it. No time in the near future will the management types be offering pilots (or F/As) fruit baskets with a ‘sorry I didn’t value you’ card, and more importantly a substantial pay rise to overcome the rift they have created. This will happen only when it’s too late.

As for the improved working conditions? Less staff will mean more work for the remaining staff any way you look at it. The companies will need to offer flight crew a pretty big incentive to stay on working harder and at the same time entice others to sign up and do the same when so much opportunity is out there.

I agree that the companies need to address the flight crew remuneration urgently. Once the experience is gone, it is gone forever. I however do not believe that this will happen. If improved T&Cs were going to be offered then they would have done so by now, while the economy is strong and profits are high. Business is booming yet flight crew T&Cs have stayed the same.

Time to smell the coffee! I say get out and strike while the iron is hot and improve the life of your selves and your families. These companies certainly won’t – and if they do it will be only for the short term until they feel safe again. Then they will change the AWAs again (which everybody will be on by then) and you’ll be back to square one.

To put it eloquently – fcuk’em

Employee loyalty and respect can only be gained (earned) by the companies when they do the same – and that is shown through remuneration. The main reason we go to work is to get paid. Pay your employees poorly when times are GOOD and they will know how you really feel towards them.

One final up-side is that experienced pilot numbers are relatively low and don’t grow on trees like some think. Management positions however are a lot easier to replace. You don’t even need any formal qualifications. Think on that one for a while.


PS Good to see the Air force pay department is getting a kick up the ass finally.

[areal]

Naverick
Surely you are exaggerating "F/Os are responsible for unacommpanied minors", I thought that problem was solved years ago at Kendells!
If you really are required to be a babysitter then I am not surprised if people are walking out.
As for escorting pax, I think you will be stuck with that in all GA operations not just REX.
My advice would be just do your job to the best of your ability and don't make waves, you never know who might put in a good or bad word for you when you apply to the real airlines!

PS - The guys I know in Rex (mostly in AD) tell me morale has really improved in the last 6 - 12 months. I would be interested to hear what anyone else has to say?

[KRUSTY 34]

areal.

The above posts are very sad and I'm afraid very true.

The sort of nonsense that is expected of these professional aircrew had it's genesis in the collapse of Ansett. While Hazelton Airlines was always tight on resourses, (it had to be in part due to its independant position), Kendell were incorporated some years earlier under the Ansett umbrella. As a result they were able to move substantially forward with their terms and conditions for Pilots and Flight Attendants.

I was there when the new owners picked the eyes out of the more efficient practices of the 2 former airlines. There is no doubt that they (the Singaporean owners) have done a stupendous job of raising us from the ashes, and growing the business, but it now appears that they have lost sight of the very reason that REX, untill recenlty was a truely great place to work. Its people!

They have effectively turned the clock back 15 years on T&C's and I will be supprised if they don't realise the severity of the situation untill it is too late.

[Mudflat]

Yes areal....there is a certain ex Rex FOM from ADL that is more than happy to let anyone who will listen know that to get into Jetstar you had better of been on his good side. Apparently J* ask him for a reference on most Rex guys wether you have him down as a reference or not. One guy actually did have him as a reference (after the oll FOM said that was fine)and has since found out this guys reference is responsible for him missing out. The ex FOM is quite proud of "railroading" this guys career, but his actions have all but confirmed what the large majority of Rex guys think of him...an insecure ********.

From what I understand morale at Rex has slightly imporved since PK's departure (for obvious reasons) and they now have a FOM that is putting in a decent effort to try and improve things around the base.

Rex FO's are still doing the daddy day care thing with UM's.

Sure conditions should improve for the guys at Rex ADL, but while there are still managers there that think it is OK to operate an 8 or 9 plane base with 1 servicable GPU, and for crews to walk 2km back to the crew room at the end of a shift cause he dosn't want to pay the bus driver 15 mins overtime to go and pick them up, who knows when the good times will return.

[nomorecatering]

A Rex FO told me he made about 48K in his first year if ou cound in the DTA's/ True or not?

[megle2]

Won't matter what Rex or anyone else pays, the vast majority will chase the dream / perceived glory of the heavier iron.
There will be a few who are either happy with the comfort zone or too old to want to step up.
Why pay more when the fact is the majority of your crew will jump ship first chance they get.

[Howard Hughes]

The three things that will keep pilots long term (in no particular order), are pay, rostering (ie: Lifestyle) and progression! If you haven't got all 3 then you will always have turn over...:hmm:

[Naverick]

Once experience gone, gone forever....is exactly what is happening at REX. It's no longer just a few guys moving on now and then. It includes senior captains taking with them a wealth of experience. This also means that renumeration for check & training staff seriously needs to be addressed. Training capts allowance is 10% of salary, only when training. Not good enough!

Addressing some of the previous posts;
FO's do indeed on occasions escort u/m's. Fact. There are in my opinion, too many other obligations an FO has to fulfil in short turnarounds, to then be concerning him/herself with the needs of a young child. The same also applies for F/A's. This is clearly the role of customer service, not flightcrew.

REX is not a GA company. This is certainly not to belittle GA organisations, however, REX operate >5700kg aircraft in RPT, therefore we can safely assume REX is and should be operated as an airline.

The original post was not necessarily written to make waves. It states facts and raises concerns for the REX flight/cabin crew. This group are in my opinion, the most important and valuable assett any airline has. If this seems to be an arrogant statement, let's look at one very simple fact.

If flight/cabin crew fail to show up for work, notwithstanding reserves etc. aircraft aren't going anywhere, therefore, no revenue.
If airport managers, accountants etc don't show up for a while, we live to fight another day.

In fact if this post makes some waves, great. Not too worried bout the good or bad words mate. I'll zip up me 3mil, get me board out and go catch one!

As far as morale in AD is concerned, I am aware of a good number of guys & girls actively seeking positions elsewhere. I don't agree with contributers using initials on pprune, however, the person to which i believe you are referring to, is an excellent operator and was a professional base manager and check pilot. In my opinion a big loss to REX.

The big argument is, if operators such as REX simply pay more money and improve workplace conditions, will they keep their existing staff ? Considering that crew are at the 'sharp end' and generating the revenue, of course they should be given and surely deserve a much bigger slice of the pie.This might stop the attrition rate from being as high as it is.
REX have no other option other than to improve conditions. Investment has to be made in it's current work force....

Cadets not welcome!!

[areal]

As I said in a recent post, increasing the pay at places like Rex will probably not keep pilots but improved life style will. For example, if you had a SAAB command earning 80k and were getting every second weekend off, it would be a pretty hard job to leave.;)

Rex howeaver is a GA company, airline pilots don't handle unaccompanied minors!

[Erin Brockovich]

I think I need to clarify some of the main points discussed here.

Pay and Conditions(call it lifestyle) go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other in today’s climate. By ‘today’s climate’ I mean less experienced pilots to go around.

1st point – I’m seeing a common view coming up from some people (and that’s fine) that improving pays will not stop pilots leaving for bigger and better. Well I can guarantee that doing nothing to address the problem will achieve exactly that; nothing. I remember (not very well) a definition for insanity – doing or acting the same way every time yet expecting a different result.

2nd point – I agree that some people would be happy with just improved conditions, roster or lifestyle. Here is the catch. To improve a roster you need greater flexibility. Flexibility is achieved by sufficient crew numbers. Sufficient crew numbers are achieved when attrition is outweighed by line checked new hires. This can only be achieved with sufficient check trainers and suitable recruits (plus most importantly, a stable core of happy crew). Don’t pay enough and you don’t get either – hence you have a sh$tty roster working max duty.

Rex and similar companies can’t afford not to improve pays. Whether they realise it or not is a different story. I’m starting to feel that regional management would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces rather than give pilots a pay rise.

A very sad and puerile attitude that will be the downfall of many organisations.

[YBRM]

I'm afraid you're wrong folks! Not all of us are caught up in this whole progression crap. There are many who, including myself, who like to have the balance of job satisfaction and lifestyle. Look at Skywest for example. The only reason they are hiring so much is due to company expansion. If you look at the list, most of these guys are long termers, and for those who aren't, fully intend to be. Why? Because they can have both a good job with reasonable income plus a great lifestyle.

As an ex Kendell Saab pilot, if they paid the right coin, I would very seriously consider returning. But to return as an FO or even the command pay they offer would be crazy.

The market has turned aviation managers of Australia, now its a matter of what have you got to offer, not what we're willing to bend over for :ok:

[CUB]

JetA OK, Jet* F/Os get around $95-100k and the endorsement cost $33500 of which you will get 30% back if you claim it as a tax deduction. There are no overnights and on average you will work 14-15 days per month. There are 9 more A320s on the way so progression is quite good at the moment - 2/3 years for current F/Os. I know where i would rather be !

[Ramrod2]

From what I hear, not much chance of progression unless you are in "the boys club"

[swamp monkey]

This begs the question, where will the new recruits come from with Rex, Q'link, Pelair, etc. trawling a dwindling supply of quality IFR pilots.
Here's an idea, how about they actually go through the list of applications and actually look at them. I can think of at least 8 pilots each exceeding 3000+hrs and meeting all requirements who have never received an offer of an interview even after applying and reapplying for some time. Theres more chance of winning lotto than getting a hold of sandy to convey interest in the company.

[Stubby]

Well said naverick :D completely agree on all points, time to start paying up rex management and get serious about conditions!
I would also like to see some unity within the rex pilot body and some fair dinkum negotiating this time with the rex pc.
A lot of FO's feel that during the last negotiations the captains were looked after a lot more when it came to our profit share agreements.:=

[Playne Krash Fiona]

Nice one Naverick. Heard from a mate in Rex that you guys are working RDOs to keep the show on the road. How about you all getting together and not doing this for starters. Say for a couple of weeks or a month.I know the moneys useful but working to rule might send a loud mesage.
Good luck

[nomorecatering]

i;m told that one used to get some $400 for a rdo that was worked but then was changed to a day off in liu, is that still the case, and are getting the owed days off next to impossible??

[G Cantstandya]

The ****e they make the FO's do is absolultely fuc*#'d,
I won't go through everything but I found it disgusting that their policy and procd's manual stated that the flight crew had to take UM's to meet their parents as well as trying to turn the A/C around. (if no one else was avail)
Many other things used to piss me off like walking in the rain at sydney to do the trim (around 400m, no rain coat in A/C) because they were to tight to pay a dipatcher, meet and greet pax and then jump into the right seat while the Capt called for the start checklist (really safe!!!!), work around 22 days a month, get rostered 6 on 1 off and then another 6 on, fly those piece of crap A models in MEL fully loaded while half empty B's flew around SYD and ADL, explaning to people why their bags were being off loaded whilst they boarded the A/C, the list goes on.......
The pay was crap $40000 plus DTA for new FO (my mate driving a street sweeper gets more money)
The icing on the cake was that when it came time for profit share, the FO's got the least out of everyone (by about $1500) thanks to a large waisted man in SYD!!!! People in ckeck in, dipatch, FA all got more than the FO's
This company has no hope of holding onto any good FO's who wish to further their careers flying for a REAL AIRLINE while they persist dishing up the crap they do!! They can afford to pay a lot more (look at their profit margins)
On a brighter note the majority of people are great to work with and i do feel sorry for the ones stuck there because they will be getting flogged over the next 3-4 years because the lack of crew!!
I was glad to say good-bye to REX and I know that around 90% of the crew I know there are actively seeking to get out!!
All I can say is good luck One Wing Low and I suggest you sell now before you have nobody to fly your A/C..........:cool: :cool:

[areal]

I think working to rule is a little bit premature!:=
It is obvious there are some issues which need to be addressed but have these issues been brought up in the management meetings yet?

[amos2]

You are certainly in the wrong job, Can't stand ya, or what ever your moniker is!
Go and sell used cars Mate!! :(

(and you can drink on the job too!)

[Bendo]

I heard that Rex recently conducted interviews and Sim assessments on a series of dates in Feb and March.
What came of that? Did they not get enough applicants, or simply not enough with the requisite skills/personality?

[boocs]

There is a thread on Fragrant Harbour about joining Dragonair that has amazing similarities to some points made here about Rex!!:ooh: :ooh:

b.

[2p!ssed2drive]

crikey!

is it just me, or do I smell skippers in the air! :ooh:

[Peter Fanelli]

Mr Cantstandya I wish you well in your quest to find a job where you don't have to do anything but pick up your pay check.
You're a jerk, you'll be out of aviation in a year.

[Gallerina]

Hey areal,

Nothing premature about planecrash fee's idea. How long are crew expected to put up with current conditons? If management are not aware that everyone is sick and tired of being called on days off to fly then their fingers are not on the pulse! I think planecrash has made a valid contribution and I for one would love to see this happen.... things would certainly change once a few saabs were sitting on the bay because noone accepted a casual day. How many times have i signed on and all three of us are crewing on our day off? The only reason we do it is because we are all on the bones of our ass cause we get paid peanuts... the last time I checked I wasnt crewing with monkeys!
As for bringing issues up at management meetings well can you tell me when they happen areal? Never heard of one and certainly have not heard of any line crew being invited to one.

Also everything cantstandya listed is true so why does that make him/her a jerk? The person that wrote that has obviously never had to put up with these conditions aswell as emptying bins, pouring out slops bottles (carefull...not on the grass!) dodging 737's while trying to get on your sixth aircraft for the day.....

Some people would argue "if you dont like it then leave" however i happen to love the PEOPLE i crew with and i have been a part of REX's success along with these people and I would liked to be treated as a professional employee, not someone who is made to feel like they are an insignificant part of the operation.

[Mudflat]

Well at least Rex no longer have FOM's who write up UM memos to suit their flight attendents wifes needs (ie get the FO to do it), crap on about how "selfish" it is to park in the Rex crew car park when not working....and then does it for a number of weeks after moving on to anther job, and heavliy pressure pilots to use ground handeling equipment for which they are not approved to use (lifters!!)....yeah Naverick...real professional base manager. This guys pathetic memos he used to send out were regularly laughed at as comedy material where I work, and from what I understand there are a few guys at J* awake to his snakey persona.

The next EBA negotiations are the perfect platform for the pilots to improve their pay and conditions....lets hope they don't blow it and then winge about it after the fact.

[Naverick]

The posts regarding current conditions at REX all accurate. A couple of items have got a bit personal though. Keep it civil.
Here are the improvements I'd like to see;

1. An immediate pay increase of 15% for all flight/cabin crew.
2. For pilots an annual retention bonus; 10% of salary, therefore, abolish the profit share scheme
3. The use of despatchers, FO's no longer required to attend trim room and escort pax.
4. Under no circumstances are flight/cabin crew required to escort u/m's, unless in an emergency. Having said this, tech crew are not first aid trained.
5. Increase sign on time to 1 hour at capital city ports.
6. Crew not to be contacted on RDO's without prior permission.
7. New better quality uniforms.
8. Transportation from crew room to a/c. Current situation is now a OHS concern.
9. Proper hearing protection provided for all F/A's. Also another OHS concern.
10. ALL positions to be advertised, including SYD FOM position.
11. All management and supervisory positions to be held by full-time staff.
12. A cleaner to be despatched to each aircraft on every turnaround.

I do not believe that any of these improvements are unreasonable and the company can easliy afford the additional costs. If unity/solidarity is shown amongst ALL flight crew, we can expect and deserve improvements such as those listed above.

Mudflat, I can only go on my personal dealings with the person I believe you are referring to you. From my observations, he never asked anyone to do anything he wasn't prepared to do himself. Like all of us, he didn't always get it right and probably made his fair share of errors, however, as I said previously, an excellent operator.

All comments invited...

[Gallerina]

Awesome terms and conditions Naverick :D can we get a jeanie in a bottle too!? ;)

[G Cantstandya]

Peter F and Amos2,
I take it your rex pilots who are stuck there because you are not good enough to fly a jet!!!!
Also Peter.F I now have a better job with a lot more cash, more days off, and a nice new shiny toy to play with, also more good looking young girls down the back!!

[wrongwayaround]

Awesome post, Nav :ok:

Look some might call it unrealistic, but what Naverick has just said is the way it should be.

Remember, for crying out loud - we are pilots. So let us be pilots.

Also remember the simple fact that smart kids aren't learning to fly anymore because they can become I.T professionals, earn squillions.... Get a PPL and enjoy flying on weekends.

I know a QF cadet (now an FO in mainline) who said to me - "If I didn't get the cadetship, I would have gone to university and studied Engineering".... So I asked him "You wouldn't go and get your licence and climb through G.A,".... To my offense he replied "No way, I don't want to fly those little planes in that crappy industry". (This was before the time of "2 years industry experience").

The purpose of me telling this story is... People want good conditions, pay... and the rest of it. So they should, it's their choice. While we all love flying - I think we (especially those people in regionals) should focus on not short changing ourselves. I'll tell you boys (and girls) that you are ALL worth it. You're highly trained professionals who have endured sweat and tears, and have parted with awesome amounts of cash.

WWA :ok:

[Playne Krash Fiona]

G.C.

Or it could be that a lot of guys out there can't afford the training to fly those shiny jets and some that won't cough up out of principle! Once again another thread getting all bitchy and personal. Good onya nav for attempting to keep it nice. Those proposed conditions seem realistic to me.Basically xtra 6-7k fo's 11-12 capts,hardly a fortune this day and age.

Gallerina,I'll try and get ya one of those lamps next trip to the sandpit ;)

[areal]

Gallerina you are an idiot (two posts and only joined yesterday!)

You don't have to come in on your day off if you don't want to!

Rex is a great job if you have the right attitude!

[areal]

Also worth noting Playne Krash Fiona and Mudflat only joined in the last few days also.

The only way to keep this constrctive is to make a list of all your complaints and have a direct dialog with management. If this isn't hapening then make it happen!

[dogsbestfriend]

Be real areal:=. The REX OPS management are too busy with the minor issues to see the major one coming. Basically they think they are doing a good job and it's everybody's fault but theirs. With a few of them the following applies.
Lowliness is young ambition's ladder,
Whereto the climber-upward turns his face;
But when he once attains the upmost round.
He then unto the ladder turns his back,
Looks in the clouds, scorning the base degrees
By which he did ascend.

[shooter]

Gallerina - is there a reason for this username or are you just trying to set a certain ADL captain up?

[Sue Ridgepipe]

I know a QF cadet (now an FO in mainline) who said to me - "If I didn't get the cadetship, I would have gone to university and studied Engineering".... So I asked him "You wouldn't go and get your licence and climb through G.A,".... To my offense he replied "No way, I don't want to fly those little planes in that crappy industry". :uhoh:

And some people wonder why cadet bashing is so prevalent on these forums.

[Towering Q]

Hey Shooter, are you Shooter McGavin from Happy Gilmore? And if so, did you once work out west?:E :E

[shooter]

Not me TQ

Also worth mentioning that MW did an excellent job on the pilot council in Adelaide - it's not an easy job - thanks Mark!

Ka-chow!

[bushy]

Sue Ridgepipe

And that is Australia's shame. The "little aeroplanes" are an essential part of Australia's transport system that has been all but destroyed by opportunists and tax dodgers and airlines that will not spend one cent on pilot training.
The small aeroplanes are treated with contempt and not considered important by too many. The large numbers of temporary pilots who are merely exploiting the small aeroplanes as a stepping stone to a major airline, and do not consider them to be important are doing enormous damage. I sympathise with them, but I believe that the cadet who chose not to go to GA because he had no interest in it was right. If you do not want to do it, and be a bushman and work to improve it, don't go.
The attitude that "they don't matter-it's only for training" is too common and probably is one of the major causes of accidents.
Is this the underlying cause of accidents like Lockhart River?
The same people are now doing the same in bigger aeroplanes. What happens in GA is an indicator of what is coming in the major airlines.

[brown_hornet]

And some people wonder why cadet bashing is so prevalent on these forums.

And some cadets wonder why the pprune public take everything that is written and quoted about cadets as gospel:rolleyes:

Back to the topic.

[Stubby]

Peter Fanelli your reply to Mr Cantstandya, was completely out of line :\ all of his points i felt were valid which begs the question whats your agenda and whos side are you on? :=

[Stubby]

Areal, so what if some people have only been on the forum for the past few days!! it doesnt make there opinons any less valid.
Pull your head in!:ugh:

[Mudflat]

Yeah areal....I didn't know you got a seniorority number once you joined Pprune. If it makes you happy, you should know I'm a long term reader, first time poster!!.

naverick...good points about what the pilots in Rex should be shooting for, maybe you should go and fight for them in the next EBA discussions. I'm also glad you think the old AD FOM is such a champ. Maybe if you ask him really nice he will give you a copy of the Dallas flight plan that is part of the J* interview process...apparantly he thinks being best buddies with the CP means he can do that sort of thing and get away with it. Or better still put him down on your reference list and then wait and see to find out what he really thinks of you. I know of at least one guy that found out the hard way he wasn't well liked.

[Gallerina]

areal

why exactly am I an idiot? because i just joined? because i have had two posts? Comments like that pose the question "who is the idiot here???? "I have been an avid reader of this forum for over 18 months. Up until now the forum didnt offer a relative topic for me to contribute to... i was unaware that there was a time limit before your opion was accepted in writing. Further more, if you had read my post you would have understood that "I know I dont have to work my RDO's" :ugh: but because i and fellow crew members are paid a pittance we agree to work so we can make ends meet...derh... again who is the idiot? That was the point of the post...so did you read it or just see your name and decided to have a go? Also, I believed this forum was as a place to have your say without being called stupid, idiot, jerk etc... we get that at work so I certainly dont need it here!!! Especially from someone that obviously has anti crew aspect.:=

[Gallerina]

hey shooter!
My name is nothing to do with anyone in Adl or Rex at all...just airline jargon...

[Gallerina]

And another thing areal...

I have had the BEST ATTITUDE a crew member could have! I, up until recently, have been a big fan of Rex and passed off the crap conditions as a result of 'trying to build ourselves up again'. Well hello! We are back and as I said earlier (if you actually read my post!) I have contributed to the success so lets start operating as a professional outfit and treating crew members as such. Be careful what you persume areal.... alot of crew do behind the scene favours for the love of the company and its people which is a thankless job....dont talk to me about attitude!:= :=

[Keg]

And some people wonder why cadet bashing is so prevalent on these forums

Oh FFS. Here we go again with another unsubstantiated overly generalised sledge at cadets. W@nkers amongst cadets in the airlines are no more or less prevalent than w@nkers who did THY in GA or the RAAF. The only difference is that most cadets don't bag out every former RAAF or GA driver on the basis of the one or two w@nkers that they happened across in their times. Sad that they aren't afforded the same respect back. :rolleyes: :ugh:

Not every former cadet and now QF driver should have been a cadet as some of them are WAY too good to be flogging around in aircraft in the middle of the night. However every cadet that I've ever flown with or talked to in QF did the cadetship irrespective of the size and/or type of aeroplane that QF asked them to fly. In fact I recall a time when every cadet I know was asking to fly something....anything and it didn't matter how big or small it was. Walking into any GA company in the nation with 'Australian Aviation College' stamped in your log book was the kiss of death for most of us. :ugh:

[Ejector]

OK cadets, plenty of places for you to chat, back to how Rex will be struggleing to get crew under this current policy.:ugh:

[Naverick]

Cheers Ejector,

This thread has nothing to do with former employees, cadets or the validity of posts from new contributors. Also attacking new contributors will reaffirm the view held by some, that pprune is the cyberspace habitation of arrogant, overgrown school children.

Most contributors agree that REX t&c's are woefully inadequate. Those of us that are employees need to decide what 'action' if any, we are willing to participate in. Whatever measures are taken, slagging off REX management is completely unnecessary and I for one will not participate in such behaviour. On the whole, they are a good bunch of people working under very 'controlling' ownership.

Waiting for the next EBA negotiations to come around seems reasonable enough, however, I would like to see employees applying a little pressure on the owners from now on. The upper echelons of REX are CURRENTLY reaping the rewards of our success. This needs to be reflected through our payslips ASAP.

I propose continued contact and support via the internet and once the 'message' is well and truly out there, COLLECTIVELY start 'working to rule'. This may involve for instance the refusal to work days off etc.

Constructive criticism and comments most welcome.

[areal]

Sorry Gallerina, Mudflat Stubby and Shooter, looks like I did jump the gun there.
It seemed a little odd that 4 new memberships in one day just to bag Rex but you all had good points there and your opinion is welcome.

Carry on!

[rubberman1974]

At least REX pilot's earn their job based on merit rather than paying for their job and who they drink with on a saturday night! As for the so called pretty girls down the back..... I'd rather have a competant FA pull me out of a burning wreck than a girl making sure her hair and makeup are ok before doing anything else!

[mention1]

OK I'll give some input.

Rex has a double edged sword. Considering all the expansion of larger airlines, Rex will loose some pilots regardless of pay. Some will stay because of loyalty and comfort and unwillingless to take part in the recruiting process.

They (management) are stuck by Economies of Scale. If the flight crew of a Saab get a huge pay rise then the 34 pax behind them have to pay $500 odd dollars for a ticket and so the airline fails. At the same time a potential student pilot goes to a flying school looking for tuition and is told to buy an ASIC card ($200) and pay twice for a medical ($130 to CASA) and also purchase a SPL, something new. Before the instructor has finished his schpeel the student is out the door!:\

And so you have a gradual lack of experienced pilot in Oz. This leads to the unbelievable ad in The Australian newspaper.

Yes we are expected to clean the cabin, yes we have to escort infirm pax and U/M's to their families. Yes we have to prepare Trims at major airports. Yes we have to empty rubbish bins and slops bottles. Yes we have to dodge B737's and walk km's on airports from carpark to crew room to aircraft to dispatch gate.:*

We have gone from around 1000 flights a week to 1200 with no real increase in pilot numbers. The training depatment is flat out, as are interviews. We have all had occasion where friends are knocked back and we thought they would have been perfect. But thats another story.

On the plus side...
I have always been paid promptly for casual days and have never been knocked back a roster request nor day in lieu. The "A" models will soon be gone when the B+'s arrive. If you think about it; in the unlikely event of a pilot staying with one company all the way through their career, they are an FO for 4 years out of 40 years. i.e only 10% of the time so their dreary days of bad conditions and pay are limited.

Personally I would like to see more communication. We just don't get talked to. The newsletter is just a copy of press releases. How about some more road shows? I would also like to see some roster reform such as bidding. I can also not think of another job in Australia where complicated equipment is operated for 10-11 hours straight with out a break at all. And the open letters to staff from Sing-as are a disgrace. Its this general lack of esprit-de-corp that is the reason I will be leaving soon. Sad. :sad:

[Hawk777]

Mention 1,

$500 per passenger. Think about this:

To give your Capt's $12000 per year and F/O's $8000 thats $20000 total.
If these crews are doing on average 800hrs per year thats a cost of $25 per hour. If your average sector length at REX is 1.5hrs than thats an extra $37.5 per sector. Divide that cost by a full aircraft of 34 pax and your looking at $1.10 per pax. Even a half empty aircraft (or half full, depending on how you like to look at it) is only $2.20 per pax.

Thats not a huge increase from a customer point of view but equates to a much better package from a pilot's point of view.

I think the likes of Skippers have already missed the boat as far as retaining their experience Capts with more money. Look at Maroomba's Dash Capt's for example, they are mostly ex Skippers guys who are career Dash drivers and may have stayed if the money was better at Skippers.
REX on the other hand sound like they still have an opportunity to keep a few of their career guys so a pay rise may make the difference.

[Capt Wally]

.........REX like all the rest are simply screwing the only thing that's screwable in this game & that's the human element, (AWA's, EBA's attest to that these days) fuel, A/C runnig costs etc are all mostly fixed & would never actually go down & if they do vary it's only upwards, unlike a pilots pay!

................thank God we love flying......right ?:-)


Capt Wally :-)

[emphar]

I feel compelled to add to this thread. I don’t know how relevant this is but after reading the posted comments I cannot help myself. Although this may be a first post here I have been reading pprune for the last 1o years.
10 years ago I faced a dilemma. Should I start flying or shouldn’t I. It was a toss up. Should I give up 7 years of uni studies to change careers. The costs the risks etc etc. It hurt for years. The love and dream of flying a saab 340 for a regional. There was nothing that could be better. It went on for years. The decision should I or shouldn’t I.
I read pprune every week, every thread on training, cadetships etc etc. I spoke with pilots to try and get the info to lead to a decision. Every year went on and every year I would delay. I did a detailed investigation of what was required from ppl to cpl to mustering to PNG flying etc etc. I found out first hand the real risks of some of those start up jobs. Being an engineer my studies were very exhaustive. I found out facts about guys on first jobs that never made it past base one alive. Stories that you never hear about. It showed me the real risks. I remember asking a kendalls senior pilot what I had to do to get a job as a regional pilot. I remember the simple response. You fly in PNG and we will look at you. Sounded simple when said fast. When analysed against time, lost income, cost and material risk it seemed it would be a very long road just to get to the interview. God help me if he didn’t like the look of me after all that. It delayed my decision for a few more years.
10 years later I still read pprune and I still like aviation. However the reality as demonstrated by the excellent information transposed by the great people supplying the real info on pprune makes it very clear. Aviation careers are now dead ducks. The salaries and T and C quoted on these web pages for regional pilots are disgraceful. The FO salaries are ten years in arrears.
My unfortunate circumstances of 10 years ago, having no money for flight training couldn’t of been better. It fxxx saved me. Had I sacrificed my career to date for the conditions quoted in this thread I would have been disgraced with myself.
The salaries quoted above should be lifted by 50 % at the least for both Captain and FO. Having a love for flying in the early twenties versus the cost of housing and living in the year 2007 is worlds apart. With the average cost of a house at 300k and (a coffee, scon , snack and orange juice) at cibo $15 the two are worlds apart.
I sincerely wish all those flight crew who came through the GA ranks all the best out there for improving their terms and conditions. They are the true warriors of Australian aviation and the Australian spirit.
For all those other plebs who’s Uncle or Aunty worked for the majors and got them straight to the RHS of turbo props I say : Sucked in you know got what you deserve. FxxxL. You’ll know have to make some real decisions and take some real risks if you want any real money or real career. Even in the majors now the chinaman will get you.

[Stubby]

Areal..... Apology accepted :D

[wrongwayaround]

Emphar,

Very very interesting post.

I really do appreciate your point of view. There are some real risks involved.

When people get all their qualifications and have.... 250 hours, then they only want 500 hours. Eventually that will come, then they want 1000 hours. When that comes, even getting on a twin seems worlds away, let alone the dream of flying a SAAB or a heavy jet.

She's an interesting industry, but I think it's fair to say it is changing. Pay wise and the number of jobs going.

WWA :ok:

[1/2 bank]

With Rex just announcing it has lost the BHP Olympic Dam charter, i feel things will get worse before it gets better. Rex is a great place to work if you stay out of trouble, we have all seen in recent weeks what can happen if you try to rock the boat. As for some of the conditions, too many of you guys are banging fa's.

[Naverick]

1/2 bank,

With REX missing out on OLD, any ideas as to how this happened and which operator won the contract ?

I am very sad to say that REX is not a 'great place' to work at present. Morale is very low. Have you not read the previous posts that attain to this fact. If you are an employee, are you seriously unaware that the majority are crying out for improved pay and conditions.

Please enlighten this forum as to what happens if you 'rock the boat' and the meaning of 'banging F/A's, which are both hard to do on a potentially sinking ship!!

[KRUSTY 34]

The Olympic dam run was always dependant on the mining sector. Otherwise, why in gods name would you go there!

It's also a long haul from AD in a SAAB, so I guess as soon as a jet operator, Charter or otherwise came in, the load factors would drop significantly.

Rex management are extremely pragmatic when it comes to making tough decisions about routes. They have not hesitated in the past to liquidate a weak performer. With the current shortage of both crews and aircraft, they will have no trouble reassigning the capacity where it is needed elsewhere on the network.

It blows me away that this pragmatism is completely lacking when it comes to crew T&C's and morale. If they don't get with the program quick, the consequenses will make Olympic Dam look like a non event by comparison.

1/2 bank,

Have you seen the majority of the girls at REX, Outstanding, who can blame these guys. After all these years, I'm a little off the pace, but most of the relationships appear genuine and between really nice people.

[shooter]

Gallerina - airline jargon for what?:confused:

[Mudflat]

Ahh yes rocking the boat....wouldn't want to do that would we??. But when is rocking the boat "rocking the boat", and when is it just trying to get your slack arse superviser off his ar$e to imporve the base and how things are run.

Fortunatly Rex ADL does not have the problems it used to in the FOM department. I mean I'm sure all the guys down there were happy to have a FOM that worked "12 days straight" to help out when they all moved over to the new terminal...and just incase anyone missed this huge effort he even put it down in writing in one of those infamous memos....even CAO 48 does not apply to this guy!
Rocking the boat can include...
Not operating ground equipment for which your not trained on.
Informing your supervisor that the standards at the outports is below par.
Expecting your supervisor to be in his office on an Admin work day.
Expecting your supervisor to take action on legitiment issuses...many that are related to safety.

The list goes on, and I'm sure you get my point. All I can say is if there are any J* capts reading this.....make sure you don't rock the boat.

[OnTheShaker]

Well Guys, Some Good and some very poor points have been added in this thread by some who clearly know hat their talking about and some that dont.

Heres the FACTS:

1. Rex pilots will continue to suffer and be taken advantage of while ever we have a very poor quality pilot commitee. I know what your all going to say......theyre the only ones who put forward their time...RUBBISH. These are the same company yes men we continue to have on the RPC. they jump at the chance to have any involvement in these sort of things so they can be closest to the gossip. Its sad but things wont change until a realistic group of PRACTICAL memebers are chosen.

2. Working for REX is not that bad. Its the little things that would make life easier. GPUs that work, AC units that are actually used, more realistic schedules ( is it that hard to add 5 min guys ??) etc, etc, etc, etc
Truth is REX is brought to its knees by very very very poor quality middle management (gate, OPS, Airports etc). the sooner the company addresses the little things the sooner people will actually consider longer term things. Ive worked in 2 capital city bases and things are always the same.

3. REX pilots need to have the b***s to stay home on a casual day. Dont come in claim your cash and then bitch to others the next day. One in all in.

4. lets face it, we will NEVER get a significant pay rise. Its far better off putting our efforts toward making life at work a little easier for staff on the line.

5. For the record the REX checking and Training department has never been better. NH might be a little difficult to deal with at times but all the bitching comes from the same guys ( the ones who dont put any effort in, bitch all the time, have appaulling SOPS and FAIL in the sim and on line). We have one of the best FCOMS out there. Our procedures are safe and cater for the lowest common denominator. Operating like "the good old days" does not have a place in todays airline environment.


Look guys, pilots are getting harder to find. its about time pilots got together as one and actually put pressure on operators to achieve some of the smaller things.

Agree or disagree, these are the simple FACTS about Rex

Thanks:D

[Mudflat]

For the guys that are not happy at Rex I suppose the next EBA is a good time to try and sort things out....if not stop carrying on about it. I remember thinking it was all pretty tough when going through GA but when you come out the end of it all you have are good memories and great experience, which I think is what alot of guys will have when they are done at Rex.

[Gallerina]

areal,

thank you for your apology mate, nice one!

Mention 1,

Please tell me you're not alluding that once FO's become Capt's (after approx 4 years) that the dreary pay and conditions become reasonable???? I know for a fact that im not alone when I say that "earning 70+k to be accountable for everyone and everything that takes place on your watch", is an absolute joke. I have family that earn 60K answering phones in a call centre.... which I was completely horrified to learn just recently. In light of finding this out, I am actually a bit ashamed that I have accepted the T&C's at Rex in order to be employed. If flight crew take a stand to boycott RDO's or any other relavent action.. I will be first in line.

Regarding your suggestion re bidding... that would be a way forward. Rex is one of few airlines where seniority and seniority lists mean nothing (with the exception of command slots) I would be happy for the oppotunity to bid for duties and therefore having an each way chance of not going to the hill two or three times a roster! Also, communication is the key to any relationship and I completely agree with the request for more roadshows. Perhaps all these posts explain why this isnt happening...hear no evil, see no evil. Other Airlines have quarterly open forums that managers and base managers hold (at relevant bases) so any issues that may be of concern to crew are heard and hopefully addressed before morale dissolves to nothing more than contempt. I guess our managers our just too understaffed to take the time to hold these? Or, going by a very small majority of posts, they just dont want to know?

Half bank,

Re-itterating Naverick's statement....Rex is NOT a good place to work right now regardless if you stay out of trouble or not. Infact, it seems the more you have to say and the more you make the rules to suit yourself, the more the powers that be are scared of the individual. The verbal abuse I have heard dished out to great working guys and girls has been a disgrace, while trouble makers have been promoted through the ranks. As for your comment about "banging FA's"... well you kind of sound a bit pissed you're not included!

For emphar,

Good on you for your contribution. This is very much appreciated, and Im sure I speak for alot of us on this thread. Hopefully you are earning enough as an engineer to fly for a hobby and therefore enjoy it for the great experience it should be!

[Naverick]

OTS,
Agree with all your points bar number 4.

This is exactly why I started this thread; REX flightcrew simply deserve more CASH!! That's the reason why the owners made the investment. To make more CASH!! Senior managers are now making a lot more CASH, out of the success to which we (the flightcrew) are major contributors. The guys and girls at the sharp end (the flightcrew), deserve more CASH!!

A lot of flightcrew are finding it hard to make ends meet, paying mortgages, rent, fuel, school fees, holidays, grocerys, a slab, a chardy even!! They need more friggin CASH!!

Not all REX crew are able to fill vacancies with the companys that operate shiny jets, despite being very good operators. It's not necessarily that they dont want to. It is simply because not everyone has the means to pay the fat fees that are charged. Those that do have the means won't cough up, out of principle.

Am I making myself friggin clear here. I've attempted to type a bit slower to keep it plain and friggin simple!! More CASH must be paid!!

Mention 1,
All companys in any industry should pay staff promptly, whether it's for an RDO or any other penalty, allowance etc. No brainer!!

You've never been knocked back re; roster requests, days in lieu. Well done. Doesn't help my mortgage repayments, doesn't put another beer in the fridge.

No flightcrew member should experience a 'dreary' year. Trained flightcrew must be paid a professional wage. Most pilots come to airlines such as REX with a fair bit of industry experience. They're hardly apprentices for heavens sake! If REX OPS staff can command circa 60k, is a 15% increase really too much to ask? After all this means that FO's, will still only be on a base salary from about mid 40's to early 50's.

Not having a go M1, just feel very strongly about this.

Emphar,
Excellent post, cheers for the support, however, I don't regret becoming a driver!!

To all REX pilots/FA's, STOP working your RDO's, it might make a difference.

[mention1]

5. If you work a casual day and are entitled to cash, the payroll department does not pay you, and it takes months to chase up and get paid.
Just saying it hasn't happened to me.:O
The ****e they make the FO's do is absolultely fuc*#'d,
I won't go through everything but I found it disgusting that their policy and procd's manual stated that the flight crew had to take UM's to meet their parents as well as trying to turn the A/C around. (if no one else was avail)
Many other things used to piss me off like walking in the rain at sydney to do the trim (around 400m, no rain coat in A/C) because they were to tight to pay a dipatcher, meet and greet pax and then jump into the right seat while the Capt called for the start checklist (really safe!!!!), work around 22 days a month, get rostered 6 on 1 off and then another 6 on, fly those piece of crap A models in MEL fully loaded while half empty B's flew around SYD and ADL, explaning to people why their bags were being off loaded whilst they boarded the A/C, the list goes on.......
The pay was crap $40000 plus DTA for new FO (my mate driving a street sweeper gets more money)
The icing on the cake was that when it came time for profit share, the FO's got the least out of everyone (by about $1500) thanks to a large waisted man in SYD!!!! People in ckeck in, dipatch, FA all got more than the FO's
This was why I posted the quick time to command comment. Look I for one would love a descent pay raise just like the next guy. A lot of these problems are so easy to fix. Its not a bad job and I would stay for better t&c. Oh I won't be coming in on my days off any more either:ok:

[OnTheShaker]

There seems to be alot of talk here about a payrise. Sorry to sink your boat guys but that chance fell over with the EBA. Theres very little hope of any type of rise until the next EBA comes up.

A few points to consider though:

1: Get rid of the spineless members of the pilot comittee and get some guys in there that WANT ACTUAL RESULTS, not just to keep their country base open. We need people there with NO AGENDA. that has not happened to date. I dont and will not agree with the "their doing a good job" line we keep getting fed. They are our representatives and honestly they dont represent us well.

2: REX pilots need to get some solidarity NOW, not 2 weeks before the next EBA. We need to start working to set rules NOW. If flights have to be cancelled due to insufficient crews, so be it. Its the only way management will wake up. :ugh:

*NO WORKING RDOs
*NO DUTY EXTENSIONS
*NO DEPARTURE IF CORRECT BREAKS ARE NOT GIVEN
*NO DEPARTURE UNTIL THE PROMISED CREW MEAL ARRIVES
*NO UMs
*NO HOIST ASSISTANCE
*DONT ACCEPT OVERNIGHT ACCOM THATS NOT ACCEPTABLE

etc etc etc

3: A good point was raised prior to the last EBA. Why not get a professional negotiator to do the work for the pilot group. The REXPC is useless and the AFAP might as well not exist.

Until someone gets up and takes this by the horns we will continue to wallow. Why doesnt the REXPC meet without the management and come up with a sensible group of rules to begin to implement these actions. Ratify them properly, Publish them to ALL crew and make sure those useless bas***ds that keep coming in on their days off STOP.

I doubt our current PC will have the fortitude to even consider this.....we are all still hanging up headsets for the few among us who think themselves worthy of being waited on (Sir Captain D.G.)..PLEASE.

A sensible approach is needed now guys. we need to start now otherwise our illustrious leader will continue with route expansion without increased pilot numbers or conditions.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THINK BIG PICTURE

thanks again:ok:

[DUXNUTZ]

Interesting comment re: crew meals. I was sitting in our plane waiting on the UPS ops freq (feeder pilot for UPS) and heard a UPS pilot saying they weren't ready for pushback till more bottled water got there. Good stuff!

[KRUSTY 34]

OTS,

Great first couple of posts.

You sound perfect to head up REXPC.

Can't wait to see you get on the comittee and make a real difference!

[Jet_A_Knight]

Are the Sydney crews still walking from carpark at the old Hazo office down to the terminal??

[mention1]

Yep. Takes 17 minutes door to door. Doesn't sound like much but try it twice a day with hat, tie, nav bag, etc etc. Its one of the most stated reason why people leave believe it or not.

[Mudflat]

Have the pilots in Rex actually ever got together and had a meeting (base by base)?...never did in my day.

Thats the only way the PC will ever find out what the pilots want.

[Hawk777]

Any REX pilot's applied for Alliance yet?

In the Aust. today they are advertising for F50 pilots and sugest possibly having F100's based in Adelaide. Sounds like a better prospect then REX with the possability of jet time down the track. Does anyone know how their pay compares?

[OnTheShaker]

Just think about it..Rex is alot like the titanic, It was built so the lines owners could boast about their boat. The owners seemed to think their boat was indestructable and the owners pushed their boat hard and fast to break as many records as possible.....the owners didnt see the iceberg coming....it could never happen to them or their big shiny boat.

Face facts Lim Kim Hi-Low:8 is going to sell out....plain and simple. he doesnt care about wages and conditions he just wants his boat as big and shiny as possible when his selling day comes (regardless what going on below decks). The share price is high....much more growth on the share front would require alot of effort and investment on management part...hes going to cash out. like all asian businessmen he has little regard for his people and has no pride in the airline (Not like max and Don)

My advice....If you knew your boat was going to hit an iceberg maybee you should consider untying the liferaft NOW not when it actaully happens.

I know I know...too many analogies but I think their relevent

get out now guys...its not going to get any better...most probably only worst

:ok:

[Austaz]

Krusty,

Can't agree with you more. There are alot of people willing to sprout of at the mouth, (of which most is true mind you,) and willing to bag those that actually due step up and try to make a difference, but aren't willing to step up to the plate themselves. I'm sure we'll see alot of new faces at the PC in the near future.

Alot of guys are willing to give others all the things that are wrong and when anyone from management actually ever comes asking if there are any problem ( very rarely mind you ) you certainly wont see these guys putting their hands up.:E

[wethereyet]

About time to get off the fence and add my 2 bobs worth.

Could't agree more with almost everything said so far. With morale deteriorating in the last couple of years to the point that those who never contemplated leaving now cannot see themselves at REX in a few years (myself included), when are the powers-that-be going to pull their head from each others Butt?

Our pay scales are not the only thing that needs to change - FO's babysitting UM's and emptying garbage/slops doesn't happen in a real airline (no wonder the high yield customers at WG and AY fly QF, our image stinks).

The pay scales were accepetable against the cost of living 10 years ago. Now unless your independently wealthy it is impossible to get by, let alone get ahead. The real costs of living for real people in our capital cities have been increasing at twice the magical 3% inflation rate. Not to mention our T&C's being substantially less that those prior to the merger.

We are now doing 20% more flights than we were doing 2 years ago with tech crew numbers increasing less than 4%. For many the low pay was compensated by a good lifestyle - now that is being eaten away too. They can't have it both ways - I've had enough, no more 85+ hr/month rosters for this **** money.

Reality is that we are never going to see any large increase in our base salary - it is just not going to happen (true inflation would be nice). We need to protect our lifestyle or be paid lucrative incentive payments for sacrificing it. Our pathetic salary should not apply to any more than 700 flying hours per year (60 per 4 week roster). Anything beyond this must be overtime at double time rates. Extensions and casual days should be paid at rates at least equal to those that were paid by Hazelton factored for inflation - anybody want to work it out? Even if these added up to an average of 15K per annum for each of the crew members this would equate to less than $5 per ticket - YES they CAN afford it!!!

We can all start by not coming in on RDO's for the insulting $350 casual day payment. Understandably people do it because the salary sucks, but nothing is going to change while a hand full of us keep grovelling on our knees for a $350 casual day payment - we are just letting ourselves down :yuk: We are financially 10 years behind our schoolmates because we invested in qualifications and experience that REX is using, let's stop being prostitutes.

[bushy]

You started it in GA. Now you are reaping the benefits.
The leopard does not change it's spots.

[G Cantstandya]

Seems a lot of pilots with REX are very unhappy, I don't think management are going to give the flight crew any decent kind of a pay rise whilst the current owners have their hands the company.
As mentioned in previous posts there is no doubt that L K H is fattening up his pig for a sale, the next eba is a little over 12 months away and while rex can still employ pilots, things will not change.
I beleive if the pilots have any chance of a better deal they have to work to rule now, not in 12 months......the pressure must be applied, people need to send as many emails as possible to L K H, links to this post and put pressure on the PC, when a few planes are parked they may listen!!!!
I personally know of over 15 guys who are leaving in the next couple of months and i'm sure there are many more.......With so many guys leaving, now is a perfect chance to try and better things and stop doing the job of a cleaner, dispatcher, load controller, porter, baggage chucker, etc, etc :ugh: :ugh: and just be professional pilots as I know most of the crew at REX are.
Good luck guys, your gonna need it...............thank f#$k I got out a while ago!!!!!!!!!

[wombat1]

I haven't read all the threads[it may of been mentioned] but haven't REX pilots been given a parcel of REX SHARES ? These have doubled in price Anyone know how many were given ?

[Playne Krash Fiona]

Looks like theres a bit of momentum building up mongst the Rex troops.
Would be interesting to hear if you guys are starting to get any feedback from management over these issues since this thread started.
I reckon you've got a fair chance if everyone on the shop floor pulls their weight and sticks together.
From what I hear Rex are very reliant on crew coming in on rdo's.
Dig your heels in and go down to the CBH instead. Flights will soon start getting cancelled!!
Aussie investors are very astute and will start cashing in, share price will then start to fall. This happened after the recent SA news.

The action you guys take now could possibly affect the industry (regionals) for years to come.

[Naverick]

A number of REX Adelaide pilots have applied for the Alliance F50 positions.

Their advert states F50, ATR, Saab etc endorsed pilots are invited to apply.
I can't really see many Skywest crew jumping ship. My guess is that most of the new hirees will come from REX. Rosters there are already stretched! The Adelaide base, has traditionally been where a lot of guys see out their careers. It has therefore never really caused a headache for management, as far as vacant positions are concerned. Until now.

As originally posted, REX pilot exodus well and truly in motion.

[KRUSTY 34]

REXPC meeting finally rostered for the 30th April.

All the aforementioned grievances will be placed before management on that date. This will not be an EBA negotiation as such, because the EBA still has some 14 months to run.

The hunt for qualified pilots over the coming months will only intensify as the major carriers rush to snap up the last available suitably qualified candidates.

How REX management respond to this crisis will probably determine the very future of the company. To date their silence has been deafening!

What's that old analogy? Fiddleing while Rome burns....!

[wrongwayaround]

oh dear! My breathing turning very light after reading your post krusty. and this is probably the calm before the storm?
also Krusty, when you say (refering to REX)
The hunt for qualified pilots over the coming months will only intensify
What are the qualifiations you speak of in this respect?
and also...
as the major carriers rush to snap up the last available suitably qualified candidates
What are the qualifications you speak of this this respect aswell?
Cheers,
WWA :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

wrongwayaround,

I guess it was a bit cryptic.

The "hunt", IMHO will be by every operator currently looking to either expand their ranks, or attempting to replace their losses, probably nearly everyone!

"Qualified", lets see, what would be the mins for most airline operators, 500 multi command, 1500 total perhaps.

The pool is definitely getting smaller. I have it on good authority that our company will park aeroplanes before they lower the entry requirements.

When finally faced with the reality of the situation, it will be interesting to see how they respond.

[neville_nobody]

Well maybe they should start looking at lower minimums. They do it in the USA. Regionals over there don't have 500 ME requirements and they accept single engine turbine experience!

However no matter how low the minimums are people are still going to be walking out the door if the pay and (especially) conditions are poor. Sounds like aviation managers in this country are about to learn a few things the hard way. :ugh:

[wrongwayaround]

Why in gods name would a company park aircraft!

A parked aircraft is an aircraft not making any mullah! :confused:

[touchncloth]

Said company is losing disgruntled pilots to other carriers- not enough crew to fly all the patterns. Minimums won't be lowered due to poor performances by recent recruits. The pool is drying up, regionals will be hit the most I'd say:(

[KRUSTY 34]

touchncloth,

In A Nutshell.

Krusty.

[whogivesa????]

Although the Alliance add states Dash 8, ATR, Bras, Saab etc, I think you will find those with Dash 8 time especially -300 time (due to similar engine and TOW) will be at the top of the list. Those with the Bras and Saab time would need considerable time on type.

[wrongwayaround]

hi Mr Touchncloth

is the poor performance of new recruits due to them being completely hopeless, or is it the learning curve that they struggle with?

[flyperth]

Adelaide REX ex FOM is a great person. This person has moved onto better things. Looked after the Adelaide team as best as possible. A talented check and trainer with many years of experience. Good on him for moving on. Jealousy is a curse. With regards to the memo's if adults behaved like adults memo's such as the one's mentioned in this forum would never had been issued!!! Think about it.

I hear many REX pilots have interviews this week, and next with Alliance. Excellent work, I'm sure you will all do well. Rex employees are well known in the aviation industry as hard workers, Alliance would definately take this into account.

Just remember, if your not happy, apply with other Airlines. You will never know if you don't. So have the b*lls and do it. :D

[Mudflat]

Flyperth...I had to read your post twice as I could not believe my eyes...a positive comment about the ex FOM in ADL. As a FLIGHT ATTENDANT I'm sure you enjoyed his check and training amongst other things. It's the pilots that seemed to have the major problem with him NOT THE fa's....funny that. i happen to know for a fact that after telling one of the "adel guys that he looked after so well" he would give a good reference and everything would be fine, he was no sooner on the phone to J* sticking the knife in pretty deep and telling them NOT to hire him. Who needs enemys with references like him.

jelousy is a curse, as you said, but I can't think of one person who would want to be in his lonely selfserving shoes for one day. maybe if he had the true happyness most of us guys had he wouldn't feel the need to be such a pr!ck to make himself feel good. Pathetic.

As long as the J*capts in Adel don't give him an inch they should be ok. Remember he has screwed over more people than Ron Jeremy and alot more people are being woken up to his games.

[Guptar]

I have been reading this tread with interest. I cant believe what I am reading however, can and does a man actively seek out to destroy the career and future, not to mention that of his/her spouse and children, of another for strictly personal reasons. This behavior would not be tolerated in any other industry.

One may intesly dislike an individual, be glad to see the back of him, but to actively seekout to destroy that person is criminal. A bad reference for professional reasons is one thing, but for personal reasons is insane.

[podbreak]

Guptar, sadly, yes.

There are loads of selfish brown-nosers who'd step on anyone to get ahead. It can be a disgustingly dirty industry at times.

[Playne Krash Fiona]

Are eastern and sunnies crew as disgruntled as the rex's. Are there loads leaving also?

[swab]

PKF. Hell YES, QFlink crews are disgruntled and like rex many pilots are moving onwards and upwards. People are basicalyy sick of being treated like mushrooms, not given credit for jobs well done and basically being taken for granted. Generally speaking for maybe 10 fo's getting an interview with Debtstar maybe one Capt. gets a go. Mind you some Captains are getting guernseys with asian and middle eastern carriers. The canberra base doen't have enough crew and a dash 400 is pushed against the fence there as a result. I'll bet london to a brick that the next 2 400's go to eastern and that the merger will be speeded up as a result so crews can be better utilised. :ugh:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Are they recruiting? I no several pilots were interviewed earlier in the year but of the 3 peeps I no 2 got told "no thanks" and one hasn't even heard that! :ugh: :{ :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Cant be as bad as your saying.

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday Horatio,

I believe REX Management are looking down a dark tunnel and wondering what that light is they see coming.

[Playne Krash Fiona]

K34
Rex management are to blinded by their own ignorance and self-interest to notice any of the issues raised on this thread. Rex crew have to start working to rule. That is the ONLY way to make them sit up and notice!!

[gallie girl]

As an ex Hazo/Rex flightie, it is sad to see the morale so low. I travelled on a Rex flight a few weeks ago, and was told by the Captain who I know very well that staff were exiting in the droves due to many of the reasons mentioned in these posts.... Apparently the min rest overnights with a Broken Hill the next day are still happening... a very dangerous combination....

Here's hoping management and the Singaporians open their eyes soon, before it all comes crashing down in a big heap......Looks like I got out, just in the nick of time!! Really sad though, as once upon a time this was a great place to work............

[Stubby]

Galley Girl, I completeley agree with your thread I really believe that REX has been in the past and still has potential in the future to be a great work place I am hoping that management will start to sit up and notice.:\
Your staff are your greatest asset a very basic buissness principle, it shouldnt always be about the bottom line!:ugh: :ugh:
If not EBA negotiations next year should prove to be interesting to say the least.;)

[wrongwayaround]

... and I just spoke to a mate of mine who is high up in this company.
basically, if the following doesn't happen in the next 12 months, I owe every ppruner a carton of beer :} :

- Guys with 500 hours will get a Chieftan, C402 C404 etc Job
- Guys with over 1000 hours (multi or no Multi) will get a turbo prop job.
Might I add, they will be calling YOU.

[bentandtwisted]

So how many Adelaide REX drivers got a start with Alliance? I’ve been told the groundschool starts in mid-May.

[Xeptu]

I can’t imagine any applicant would have heard anything at all before applications close on May 5th.

The program for a July 2nd kickoff will be tight, given that it will take a couple of weeks to do all the interviews and advise the successful applicants, then give notice to former employer, presumably 4 weeks, ground school with a 20.11 wet drill two weeks, type rating endorsement, two weeks, ASIC Card application if it’s a company sponsored one before any non type rated new hire is ready to step foot in the aircraft.

It would need to be an F50 from day one and it is ideally suited to this route, particularly if Olympic Dam is still only 1600M in length If so, this would exclude the F100 going in there I would have thought.

[bentandtwisted]

Xeptu,

Alliance were in Adelaide 10 days ago and interviewed a large number of REX pilots who had previously submitted CV’s before they advertised for crews in the Australian. If the Fokker 50 ground school is scheduled for mid to late May (2-3 weeks way) then those pilots should have been notified by now, in order for them can give the required notice.

The closing date listed in the Australian was the 4th of May, I guess any pilot who responded to the advert will not hear anything for a few more weeks, so Alliance must be running another ground school at a latter date for those pilots.

[Gallerina]

If I was the hirer, not sure if I would necessarily want a load of disgruntled ExRex in the new base. In which case rex may not lose that many. I'm sure applicants from all over the place have applied.

How they gonna go with experienced F50 crew. Thought the miners had min experience for type time??

[Xeptu]

I'm surprised to hear that interviews have already been conducted. I'm curious when did alliance advertise for F50 crew prior to the current ad, given they only acquired these aircraft this year and to my knowledge are not yet operational.

Does it not defeat the purpose of advertising if you have already interviewed the applicants.

In any case, one of the key elements of that process is "what are they offering" pay and conditions wise. If anyone knows for sure and one could safely presume those that have been interviewed would therefore know that.

[melpax]

I have family that earn 60K answering phones in a call centre.... which I was completely horrified to learn just recently. In light of finding this out, I am actually a bit ashamed that I have accepted the T&C's at Rex in order to be employed.

I'm one of those $60K call centre jockeys (taking OT & super into account!), and it's a disgrace that the pay is so low, taking into account the skills and experience needed, not to mention the expense & hassle to get the licences, etc...... If a FO is paid around $40K, god knows how much (or little) the FA's are on........ it's a wonder they can attract anyone at all to work for them.

And the cleaning duties, UMs, if that was taken into an office setting ie making people empty their own bins & vaccum up at the end of each day, the union would be called in quick smart.

Mind you, having worked for Asian employers in the past, they are masters at getting the most out of their staff for the least amount of money, they won't pay you a cent more than they have to. Good luck guys.

[gassed budgie]

I made a decision sometime ago not to pursue a carreer with the airlines.
I just wasn't prepared to put in the time effort and money and end up as an FO (maybe) on a Dash or Saab pulling $40k's a year. And the captains renumeration wasn't all that exciting either. That's all I've wanted to do my entire life (and still do).
But $40k's? You've got to be kidding me.
I've flown just on 900hrs in the last twelve months in GA (mostly in singles) and in the last 8 months have earnt what a FO on a Dash would take 3 years to pull in. And yes, I am lying straight in bed when I say that.
The income I derive from other sources is that far ahead of what a Saab or Dash captain earns I feel more than vindicated with the decision that I took. I have to say though that there is always a feeling of regret and emptiness knowing that I never achieved and now probably never will ,the one thing above all others that I've wanted to do since I was about 4 years old.
I'll never enjoy that spectrum of flying that some people here have experienced. And it really bugs me. If I want to go ahead and do it I've still got time, but the clock is counting down really fast now.
I now know exactly how I'm going to feel about this issue when I'm 85 y.o. and it annoys me.
A lot of the costs that an airline has to absorb it has no real control over (the price of fuel for example). But it does have control over what it pays its aircrew and in a lot of cases they're being screwed. As far as I can see, in real dollar terms wages have gone backwards over the last few years.
Unfortunately for me, the financial numbers no longer add up. I just can't afford to be sitting up the front at the pointy end of a Dash or a Saab. And that's a shame. It really is.

[swab]

Horatio,
It is as bad as I mentioned earlier, to the point where QLink are asking J* to stagger the intake of crews recruited from QLink. Thereby preventing a mass exodus at any given moment which would potentially cripple QLink. Years back you needed thousands of hours to get a job with a regional, today they are taking on pilots with less than 1200 hours and the Q cadets have around 300 hours including maybe 100 multi. Baby sitting duties for captains? That's how the captains feel any how. QLink has had groundschools for 7 and only 1 turns up indicating that they have better options. Many guys have simultaneously been accepted by VB and J* and so having the leisure of selecting and the pleasure of rejecting instead of being rejected! Having said all of this you still have to jump through the hoops at interview/sim check etc. Good luck!

[flyperth]

In regards to Alliance Airlines. They have already held interviews for Pilots in Adelaide, and Flight Attendants. Initial Flight Attendant interviews were held this week, with 1st/2nd interviews this week coming. Yeah Lucky, if the Flight Attendants missed the 1st interview on Thursday, they are holding another session this week.

The pilots whom have already been interviewed, are smart, they applied to Alliance before they advertised, as they knew the industry rumour, that Alliance was the preferred airline for Olympic Dam. By doing so this shows, initiative, dedication, being eager........An Airline would take this highly into account.

If I was Alliance Recruitment, I would hire most REX crew. Rex Crew work hard, are hands on, understand the way Olympic Dam is structured, know the passengers, the ground staff. For Alliance to start up a base in Adelaide, I think the initial intake should be REX crew, it will be easier from a management view. Management would know the REX crew understand the basics with Olympic Dam, the flight pattern, etc.

I use to work for Kendell/Rex. I am now base in Perth for Qantas Domestic, my partner is a pilot with Qantas International. This is why I highly regard REX ex FOM - if it wasn't for this person, giving excellent references to my boy, he wouldn't be working for Qantas.

REX crew ROCK! Alliance will be lucky to get you guys/girls. :D Good Luck and Happy Flying.
Flyperth

[E&H]

Gassed Budgie, If you can derive other income while flying in GA then perhaps you could do the same while flying the SAAB/Dash 8 etc.
Personally, I can only speak from my own experience having just left aviation after 18 years and going back into the workforce outside of aviation. What a different world, employers valueing your contribution and bending over backwards to keep you happy - not to mention the amount of money you can make. Its funny a lot of people/pilots say that they are in aviation for the lifestyle (I was one of them). Hard to have a lifestyle without the money.
I have a lot of fantastic memories and experiences. It is a nice feeling to be out of the industry and all the bitterness that seems to follow it around. I feel like a whole new world of different interests and opportunities are opening up - and did I mention the money?
If you have made your decision I wouldn't get too het up about it. But just maybe you can have the best of both worlds - I feel like I have and have no regrets for my time as a pilot.
Just my two bobs worth.

[bentandtwisted]

flyperth,
Gallerina is spot on, there could be a big problem if Alliance take a load of disgruntled ex-Rex pilots at their new base. It could turn into an 'us' (REX pilots) and 'them' (non-REX). The REX pilots might want it done the REX way, while Alliance and the non-REX pilots will have their way.
With only one route, the base will be a small one. Two aircraft at say 3 crews per aircraft min (for start up) requires 12 pilots and 12 FA's So taking 2-3 REX pilots and 3-4 REX FA's would be a good mix. Remember the biggest aircraft most of the REX pilots have flown is the Saab. The are plenty of pilots out there who have flown the Dash 8-300, which is equal in size and has a similar engine to the Fokker 50. Plus there would still be a few around who have flown the Fokker 50 (ex-Ansett). You may also find that the current Alliance F100 FO's might be offered commands on the Fokker 50.
I agree with you with you regarding those who have already had interviews. They were smart, the rumour about Alliance and OLD has been floating around for months.
Xeptu,
How does that defeat the purpose of advertising? Alliance have to get 12 pilots endorsed or re-checked (if already F50 endorsed) by the end of June (8 weeks). It would be impossible to do all 12 at once, as I believe there is only one simulator in the area (SE Asia).
If Alliance already have suitable pliots on their books, dosen't it make sense to get them inteviewed and those that are successful, get them on a ground school and into the sim ASAP? And then use the add to locate other suitable pilots

[Xeptu]

How does it defeat the purpose, simply because Alliance won’t know how many suitably qualified applicants (ie. Type Rated) they will have to choose from until after May 4th, close of applications, Those that are type rated would not have applied early, they would not be currently living in Adelaide and for one solitary route 4 times a day for the next 3 years would want to know what the offer of employment is, at or before the time of interview.

The F50 is a marvelous aircraft, even by today’s standards, it is however no longer in production and that makes it a dinosaur. One would need to have serious motive as a long term Rex Adelaide based 340 Captain to make that move. The terms and conditions would need to be significantly better to compensate against the possibility of not being either adelaide based and or flying a redundant aircraft type after just 3 years.

So if these “large number of Rex Pilots have already been interviewed” the question still remains, “What is Alliance offering for these positions” the interviewed ones at least would have to know, if indeed they have been.

[bentandtwisted]

From what I've heard the pay is equal to or better than NJS Dash 8 pay, plus an overtime rate and progression onto the Fokker 100 once the airport at OLD is upgraded.

Sure sounds better than flying a Saab at REX with no career progression.

Alliance would know if they have suitably qualified applicants (ie. Type Rated),as anyone who has been reading pprune for the last 3 months or read the last two issues of Australian Aviation would have known that Alliance had purchased 2 Fokker 50's, with options on another 3, plus they also have another 3 F100's the way. These pilots would have aleady made contact with Alliance before they advertised.

I guess the Saab 340 must be a 'dinosaur', has it is no longer in production!

And yes interviews were carried out in Adelaide for pilots on the 18th and 19th of April! Flight Attendant interviews were held last week!

[Stubby]

A fairly important REX PC meeting with management was scheduled for today can any one out there give us an insight into the outcome? :uhoh:

[Gumaaark]

Here we go...

I have been reading this thread over the last few weeks with two thoughts in mind:
That it is interesting, and that it is disappointing.
Interesting because many relevant points have been raised, and hopefully will be addressed, and disappointing because many posts are little more than gratuitous whining, or worse, character assassination.

For context, I am an FO, with less than two years with Rex, and can still say that they are the best company I have worked for. Yes maybe I’m still looking at things through rose coloured glasses. (albeit these days they are photochromatic Serengetis’).

What I would like to see is some mutually beneficial solutions suggested, feel free to disagree with mine, however have a think about it, and come up with some of your own. A discussion with solutions in mind is likely to have more impact than the standard “we should be paid more”.

Most of us know how much the bond is (not sure if disclosure agreements allow me to post it). And over two years it is fairly reasonable. The actual cost of training crew is probably higher than the bond we would be charged. (Taking into account instructor time, airfares for training, wages for “non-revenue personnel” , simulator time etc). From the company’s point of view, the cost of an FO is probably closer to 50-55k/annum for the first two years. For a company that still refuses to charge up front for training, is this really so abhorrent?

A couple of facts;
fact one. The company is reluctant to pay more, as staff will still leave for better things, and they then will have to be replaced (at cost).
fact two. Employees will leave because they can get better money/career progression elsewhere.

The bond is implemented to retain crew, however after two years, employees are not obligated to stay.
There are annual pay increases, to try to counteract staff leaving, however why not pay a retention bonus?
If it is going to cost 10-20k to replace a departed crew, why not offer to pay an extra 10k after 2 years additional service. This is cheaper than replacing the employee, and a 10k bonus would entice many to stay that extra time. You could argue that many crew would stay without a bonus, however just as many would leave before becoming eligible. Could this be a win/win prospect for crews and the company?

On a separate topic, yet just as radical, How about commencing Command training after two years service to stimulate and retain crew, and also promulgate a culture of knowledge. I am not saying the command training needs to be completed (until a slot is available) but think of the costs versus benefits.

-All initial endorsements are command, so there is no extra sim time (costs) required to conduct line training for FO’s in the left hand seat.
-Training Captains are paid an allowance for any month in which they do training, so if they are not training new FO’s or captains upgrading, why not utilise them to put senior FO’s in the left seat?
-An FO who has done 20 sectors in the left seat would be a better, more aware FO, able to assist/monitor the Captain more effectively, as he has real experience doing that side of the job.
-If the company requires Captains urgently (such as if several leave at once) there would be a plethora of FO’s who require minimum training time, and have had extra time contemplating what the job entails from a first hand perspective.
-FO’s who have been in the company for a long time, such as in melb or Adl where commands are slower, would at least have a sense of career progression, which would flow on to better morale.

Are there any negatives to this idea?
(ok, opening myself up to a barrage there...)

Here endith my story...

Happy flying to all.

[flyperth]

Read Cabin Crew - Alliance Airlines
Pilots outcome must be near

[bentandtwisted]

First group of Fokker 50 Captains and FO's have recieved 'YES' letters from Alliance.

[The Kavorka]

I don't think REX managment are aware of how serious their crewing issues are going to be.....
A total of around 50 guys leaving in the next 4-6 months is going to really bite..
And I hear today that all of the guys interviewed in the last couple of days missed out.....It's no wonder though with the great N.H interviewing them!!!:ugh: :ugh:

[from the top]

There have been a lot of negative comments about REX lately, some fair and some unfair.

Yes there have been difficulties getting crews lately and management have seemed slow to react to the impending shortages.

There are a lot of good operators who have missed out at interview either through poor preperation, inadequate knowledge, difficulty with the Meto sim or they just did not click with the interviewers on the day.

Most operators there days, after a period of time will give pilots a second interview if they can prove they are still keen and have gained extra experience/knowledge etc. For those still interested maybe this would be an option worth persuing.

There will always be pilots who think they should be flying bigger airoplanes, being paid more and working less, this has been the case throughout the industry from 210 to 747 drivers and I'm will never change.

The reality is that you cannot work more than 45 hours a week, most currently work less than the average working week (38 hours).

Even a first year FO (who the company has spent a considerable amount of money training) when you add DTA allowances, annual profit share and free annual shares gifts is earning more than the average wage (50K).

The salary then increases each year for the next 10 years on top of annual EBA increases in July. With commands now about 3 years and decreasing the prospect of earning a package of 80K to 90K is realistic.

Though this is less than the big boys are paying when compared to what the average Australian is earning including many other professions, its not too bad.

While REX is not for everyone there are still a lot of people in the company who enjoy their job.

At the end of the day it's all a matter of attitude !!!

[from the top]

Go REX you good thing

[KRUSTY 34]

from the top,

agree with most of your sentiments but...

An experienced, highly trained regional airline pilot is not your average Aussie worker.

And they will only become rarer!

[PennyBenjamin]

From the top, you seem to under-rate your own/ rex's pilot's worth. An FO has to do significant amounts of overnights to earn 50 grand, and year duty time may be less than 38 hours but what about time spent in bum pluck towns like Mt Gambier or Griffith.
How about crew meals, what time is considered free of duty? When does a Sydney or Melbourne crew have time to get to a shop?
UM's? Trims? Pax marshalling? Cleaning? where does it all end?

If you think these conditions are acceptable then you are out of touch with market expectations. And the standard response is the aircraft weighs this much and the dash weighs this much so bla bla. Ok then well multiple the weight of a Chieftan by 4 and their drivers salery (45K) by 4 then it comes to 180K - weight my arse!

The problem lies in the well known lack of solidarity amoungst the pilot group and the unwillingness of the PC to do anything about it.

I'm glad your happy with the wages, some of us have families. I am constantly saying 'money's too tight for steak' i wonder if Kim Jon Ill is saying the same in his villa in Singapore.

[Erin Brockovich]

At the end of the day it's all a matter of attitude !!!
Even a first year FO (who the company has spent a considerable amount of money training) when you add DTA allowances, annual profit share and free annual shares gifts is earning more than the average wage (50K).
From the top you have just revealed your attitude towards your pilots, and frankly it will be the death of you and Rex. If you are in fact tech crew, then go live it up in Sydney supporting your family on your “not too bad” 80k salary.

You do have a smell of management though, as well as a smell of company arrogance and desperation Most operators there days, after a period of time will give pilots a second interview if they can prove they are still keen and have gained extra experience/knowledge etc. For those still interested maybe this would be an option worth persuing.
80k after 3 years of hard loyal service – maybe not worth pursuing.

[Bendo]

I have had a Rex interview some time in the last 6 months - but this week I was offered Chief Pilot for a new airwork operation.

All ops day VFR, not much time away from home, all expenses covered.

The owner of the business had no idea what pilots earnt - he made all the same assumptions made by the General Public - but he recognised that to keep a capable, intelligent Chief Pilot in the operation you had to offer a competitive package.

Does 80k sound OK to you guys for flying a C206? :uhoh:

[KRUSTY 34]

:ok:
Nicely done Bendo.

There's what we ought to be paid, and what to date we have been prepared to accept!

[Zhaadum]

Onya Bendo, I hope you enjoy Jabiru!
(my guess only)
Z:ok:

[Lodown]

Just an opinion that may not be supported by the facts...
2 years ago, it wasn't critical for the people responsible for hiring pilots to keep track of the applicants. Their qualifications were assessed, but no one cared about the people behind the resumes. Now we're going into a period where the boot's on the other foot. Companies need to put resources into keeping track of and keeping in touch with their applicants. If not, they'll want to hire someone at their leisure only to find out, as in the posts above, that a significant number of applicants are no longer available. It will mean additional staff and more pressure on the people doing the hiring, but that's the climate we're going into.
By the tone of Bendo's writing above, maybe we're starting to see the resurgence of the sensible GA operator. Perhaps the approaching shortage of pilots may have the secondary effect of persuading legitimate, bright and resourceful operators back into the industry at the expense of many of the crooks. We can hope.

[Kampai]

38 hours a week?
you have got to be kidding me
try 50+, fms, no profit share the trend is here

[R555C]

Wish i could fly for REX. Got sucked in flying n a Metro as an FO with a bare comercial. All was good, then went very bad! I Have young family so, i cant afford to travel and work up north etc. What do you guys reckon i do, give up, or any ideas how i can achieve my goal and pay some of the bills?

[KRUSTY 34]

I'm seeing this sort of thing more often. It looks like a dream come true, but be careful boys and girls. If there is no progression to the left seat, these operators will continue to exploit you with low pay, dodgy conditions, and then gladly accept your resignation when the next fresh faced wannabe comes along.

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

As far as REX is concerned, I'm assuming the 500 hours multi command is the problem?

[No1Dear]

Kampai38 hours a week?
you have got to be kidding me
try 50+, fms, no profit share the trend is here

Are you suggesting that REX pilots regularly exceed duty limitations?
Do go on..........

[Kampai]

No1Dear
no not say that, i was thinking that things weren't that bad. the 38 hour week is long gone in most industries in oz, so maybe things could be worse:{ . but i'm no expert on what goes on down there

[Mr. Hat]

24000 views..... 140 replies this thread is on fire

[Howard Hughes]

24000 views and I suspect not one by Rex management, maybe they have their collective 'heads in the sand', along with the Eastern management...;)
By the way what's happened to the thread starter? Haven't seen him for quite a few pages, he must be working his ass off, or perhaps busy sending out resumes!:eek:

[mention1]

:*
...know of at least 2 pilots getting a days pay docked for ringing in sick.
As the President says in Clear and Present Danger, "Just how dumb are these people?"

[Naverick]

H.H

Thanks for your concern as to my whereabouts.

I am pleased and to be honest pleasantly surprised by the interest that has been shown in this thread. I hope that it has not been viewed thus far as a 'Rex bashing' exercise, more a thread created to raise issues that effect not only employees at the said company, but flightcrew throughout Australia.

It is not only the regional drivers that are experiencing adverse conditions. We are all being viewed and treated as an irritation by management in every company. As I said in an earlier post, we are professionals and must be treated as such.

We need to encourage the Rep's to be more proactive and provocative in future negotiations. Our current EBA has actually taken us backwards in many areas and heavily relies on profit share to make the package 'attractive'. It is not our responsibility as to whether we make money or not. Professionalism at our end is constant, whether the seat costs $1 or $1000.

Those posts stating that Rex is a good place to work blah blah, ok, we are all on the whole quite nice people to work with, however, this doesn't pay the bills.!!!! We are woefully underpaid. If you intend on staying at Rex, work to rule!!!!

Senior management would not be making truckloads, If it wasnt for us....

[dogsbestfriend]

I believe that a member of the C&T department was boasting that he had 7 failures in the last 11 days. Surely a failure rate like that says more about the system than the pilots themselves. No wonder moral is low. If you beat a dog enough all you achieve is the dog cowering in the corner which seems to be REX’s way of achieving “standards”. How about some real TRAINING as apposed to all the TESTING.

With these days of a pending pilot shortage the Pilot Management should be endeavouring to encourage and help the guys that are wanting to stay or too old to move on. I have found that the majority of guys out there young or old are very willing to be in there boots and all as team players if they feel they are not being used up.

I notice that the first thing Pilots start to complain about when they are unhappy is money. Money is not the problem, Regional pilots will always be paid less and do more for their money than their mainline cousins. I remind you all that we as a majority agreed to this EBA

My feeling is that the system needs a complete overall from the top down
Perhaps starting with the top two on the 1st floor of the Baxter Detention Centre

[Xeptu]

Check and Training is about learning, if you are not learning, then there is something wrong with the training, 7 failures in 11 days tells me there is something wrong with the SOP’s these are not clearly understood and that the training is deficient.. I can sympathize a little on that issue as it’s a very skilled art in writing a procedure which is clearly understood, however it must translate into practice in the training, not in a check.
Training should be fun and bring about a high level of confidence, this in turn produces a high level of awareness and that’s the objective. Every scenario has a number of different approaches to the solution and every solution will be different. The check is supposed to be about raising the crews awareness to bring about the best outcome. Of course there is a test component to it, but that should be no more than a box ticking exercise along the way. If the training is good and the crews are confident, no-one should fail.
A crew should come out of a sim session excited that they have learned something, an undesirable event that can so easily occur on the line and would have had a completely different outcome if only the crew had done a small little thing differently. When was the last time you came out of a sim session in total disbelief that something so nasty can happen so easily, learned from it and felt good about learning from it.
If you emerge feeling completely destroyed, confidence shattered, that’s about the worst place a pilot can be.
A good teacher is hard to find, it’s a gift, most check and training pilots do it because there is no-one else or they have simply been there a long time, that doesn’t make them good at what they do and fair enough, how many pilots themselves have had any training in teaching and how many operators provide that training, very few to none.
The big stick approach does not work and never has, if that exists in your company then you’re an accident waiting to happen, then you will see just how easy that is.
Working as a team works, to make mistakes is normal, it’s how you recover from that mistake that’s important and if you are being beaten with a big stick, you’re not going to recover and that’s when it’s dangerous.

[Dog One]

7 failures in 11 days - it would seem that their is a serious problem in the Training & Checking establishment, or that particular check person, either way, its a major safety issue that needs to be dealt with.

[Xeptu]

By the way! How many pilots have moved across to Alliance on the F50, has the ground school started yet and who's got some pics of their new livery.

[bushy]

This high failure rate stuff is what the military do, and too often the military stuff infiltrates civil aviation.
It might be good for them, but civil aviation is very different.

[Naughty S]

Xeptu you are spot on correct.

Have tried the hard line approach, it’s a quick way to piss people off. Best thing is to achieve a positive outcome with all players walking away with a positive attitude.

If people are failing then you need to sit back & ask “why is this happening?” & correct the problem. Failure to correct the problem means training has achieved nothing.

When I went to do my testing I could not afford to pay $650 for a practice sim session. Then on the day I was also told that I had no sim partner either so had to fly the sim single pilot …. F@#k!!!

I have no turbine experience nor endorsement on type. It was a little unfair I believe & definitely the reason I was not successful.

In my opinion if the person conducting the assessment actually provided input as to how to correct any mistakes I may have made & I then corrected said mistakes, would that then not indicate that this candidate is trainable as the errors can be sorted out during later sim training for the aircraft type.

It sounds to me that the C&T people may also be a little burnt out, SOME instructors also get a little testy after a while too, myself included :E

[Howard Hughes]

7 failures in 11 days - it would seem that their is a serious problem in the Training & Checking establishment.
Sounds like to much CHECKING and not enough TRAINING to me!!;)

[Mr. Hat]

Well put Xeptu. Unfortunately its more the case of big C and small T in alot of companies.

[2p!ssed2drive]

A crew should come out of a sim session excited that they have learned something, an undesirable event that can so easily occur on the line and would have had a completely different outcome if only the crew had done a small little thing differently. When was the last time you came out of a sim session in total disbelief that something so nasty can happen so easily, learned from it and felt good about learning from it.

I love that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you do it all right. Alas you will always have a few teething problems, but generally you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get it figured out. Good help usually gets you through it.

Seems like the warm fuzzies are definitely amiss in REX :(

[The Kavorka]

REX will have a/c parked by the end of the year for sure!!!!!!!!!
Interviews conducted over the last couple of weks have yeilded only a couple of pilots....Many still continue to miss out,:ugh::ugh: Someone in REX thinks the SAAB is the space shuttle discovery and tries to recruit accordingly......BIG MISTAKE......many of my freinds have missed out after a particular C&T Manager interviewed them...they are really good pilots and great guys but under pressure stuffed a couple of Q's up and failed..I have flown this a/c for REX and i don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to do it!!! If the interview failure rate continues REX are in trouble....40-50 guys leaving by AUG-SEP, and no one to replace them, do the maths.....
I feel sorry for the guys who want to make a career out of this place because they make it very hard...crap money, overworked, crap a/c (A models) and ruthless managment who care of nothing other than the share price!!!!
GET OUT NOW...........:mad::mad:

[Erin Brockovich]

And now they try to improve the pass rate by lowering the minimus. The company gets an A+ for pissing as many people off with their clueless reactions to a shortage problem they never imagined.

Unfortunately I would also suggest getting out. There are plenty of better jobs on the horizon.

Look after yourself (includes the pilot community) and the better companies.

This is no longer one of them!

[Gallerina]

hi there you crazy kids!

I have not been on this forum for some time but I have been reading the comments.

Its such a shame that such great, hard working, down to earth, fun people are treated so poorly.

Unfortunately, while Rex is being run by ex pilots and flight attendants who have little or no management or people skills, who have only ever flown a saab and forgotten what its really like on the front line then things will never improve. Its these people that NEED to let the little tight singaporian crook know how crew should be treated!

Im happy to say that I have spoken with my feet and I am now working for a airline that cant do ENOUGH for me. Im no longer running around in a five dollar uniform that came from some sweat shop in china, doing trim sheets, taking um's and arguing about why we were 2mins late!

good luck to all the bloody fantastic people that i worked with, if nothing else I can take away the great friends and memories. I hope you all move on to companies that CARE about you and if you stay I hope conditions improve!

[Naverick]

REX management are unbelievable! The CEO in a recent publication acknowledged, that pilots are at a PREMIUM due to the a number moving on to shiny jets.

His answer to the impending pilot crisis at REX is to work with quote, 'stakeholders and the government', to provide a solution. How about consulting with your pilot body and addressing the many concerns raised on this forum. We, together with our overworked engineers and our awesome f/a's keep YOUR very lucrative show on the road. How in the hell are stakeholders and the government going to alleviate the situation, other than to dream up of more ways to screw the flightcrew and appease the bean counters!

Anyhow good luck to everyone moving on and those that are trying. To those good people thinking about joining, think twice because they don't give a sh*%t. To those that have missed out, don't sweat it because you are destined for something much better.

REX/Kendell/Hazo use to be a company most were proud to be a part of. This is no longer the case. Very few on the shop floor have any respect or faith in the current ownership/CEO/C&T dept. in fact just about every MGR in Baxter rd. While I'm at it, a certain ML supervisor seems to think that all of this stuff on Prune's a load of cr*p. Well I happen to think that it is YOUR attitude that stinks!! How about having a bit of empathy for the guys & girls rather than brown nosing the C&T mgr. It's about time you moved on and let someone in that gives a......

[Gallerina]

DIXONDIKS

U are obviously so far removed from the pilot situation its not funny. To make a comparison between ground staff and crew is a complete joke. Please do us the courtesy of being better informed about our spoon feeding.... being on the bones of my ass for three years flying in and out of bum f**k nowhere was not a privilege!

You can count yourself as part of the problem crew are facing at rex. If I was you I would vent your thoughts to the only people that would appreciate them and thats your mates in management. THANKS FOR COMING.:ugh::ugh::=

By the way....ingenious name mate!

[Dixondik]

'Mates in management' is far beyond the case....If I actually worked for Rex I'de be doing something about it. But I hear about it time and time again about (some) pilots refusing to extend 5mins to help out etc. Its not the 'working' (crewing, ops, rostering, gate/tarmac staff) thats causing the problem. If only it was like back in the Hazos days...:ouch:

My mouth is shut, back to bagging Qantas.

[jarjar]

Dixondik,
I can tell you right now that 90% of pilots in any company(not just rex) are quite happy to extend duty times, do the company a favour by working overtime etc. Why may you ask? because most of us are genuinely interested in seeing that the company we work for succeed, and reallly, whats a few minutes past our sign off, right? The problem is, most of us have done favours, for said companies and found that our reward is a big fat kick in the nuts, therefore we dont do it anymore.

JarJar

[KRUSTY 34]

jarjar

hearhear!

[Stubby]

It seems once again another REX PC meeting is coming up, "heres a concept" :rolleyes: how about this time the PC and the Federation actually do there job and start to take management to account, a large majority of us are sick of seeing the PC meetings result in no action by management and the same issues seem to continue to be left "open" and passed on to the next meeting. Where is the Union in all this? to busy focusing on Virgins EBA me thinks!
Frankly the morale in the place stinks at the moment, come on PC you have had plenty of suggestions and imputs from the Pilot body time to start rolling your sleeves up and start talking a little tougher with management. :ugh:
Where all frustrated and tired of it !:=

[KRUSTY 34]

Stubby,

All the suggestions and inputs from the pilot body, and all the fist slamming and sabre rattleing in the world mean d#%k when you are dealing with a management that simply don't give a stuff.

The EBA still has 12 months to run, and as such no claim can be made untill the negotiations for the next EBA are commenced. (Law).

Having said that there is nothing stopping the company from putting initiatives in place to stem the loss of experienced crews. In my opinion this will only occur, if at all, when it is too late.

As for the items left open on the agenda, what would you suggest?

Strike?

Jump across the table and thump them?

Instead of bitching and criticising, how about educating yourself about the process and perhaps put your hand up for an unpaid, time consuming, position, and make a contribution.

Finally, try buying yourself a dictionary!

[areal]

Im happy to say that I have spoken with my feet and I am now working for a airline that cant do ENOUGH for me. Im no longer running around in a five dollar uniform that came from some sweat shop in china, doing trim sheets, taking um's and arguing about why we were 2mins late!
Gallerina, it's good to see you,ve gone, REX is a better place without pilots with attitudes like yours.
Good luck in your new airline and I'm sure it wont be long before we see you on this forum complaining about the way you are treated by them!

[dijon moutard]

Dear fellow aviation professionals
we gave the afap away at Xr a long time ago and now have the Twu representating us ; what a fresh change and they take-up what we want not somebodies else's agenda.

cheers
dijon moutard

[Gallerina]

O my old nemesis areal..... U SHOULD REALLY READ AND TAKE IN the comments and complaints that so many have put on this thread.
Your attitude to my departure is typical of what I would expect of someone in management,which you obviously are. Keep on thinking you know it all, keep on treating crew with great contempt, when you are the last one left, can you please turn off the lights!

Like I said earlier... these guys and girls need people in management to stand up for the front line. You have made some bad comments on this forum before but this is clearly the worst.... A company that says "good ridance" to crew that has given alot of time and knowledge for no thanks or payment (actually made a loss in salary) is a company that will surely fall.

Remember your greatest asset is your people... treat them as such.... BY THE WAY.... GOOD RIDANCE TO YOU AREAL... your name should be GET REAL! :ugh::ugh::mad::mad:

[Dixondik]

"your name should be GET REAL!"

Oh my god, thats a classic!!!!:bored:

All the best with this new airline Ballerina, no doubt we'll be hearing from you soon.:ok:

[shooter]

I'm with you "get Real"

And still waiting to hear what "Gallerina" has to do with aviation????

[The Kavorka]

I'm with you gallerina

I'm glad I got out when I did and haven't looked back.

Management in that joint have their heads that far up LKH's ass they wouldn't have a clue on whats about to hit them..:ugh:

Like i've said before the horse has bolted and with up to 50 pilots leaving in the next 6 months and guys there alredy getting jack of being flogged to death, there will be SAAB's parked for sure!!

[The Kavorka]

I was just looking on the REX website and see that they are starting up a Melbourne to Griffith service from July.

Who the F%#K are they going to get to crew that....

I'd say that this would require an extra 6-8 pilots based in Melb to cover the service and with 12 people leaving Melb in the next couple of months the rot should start to set in!!!, seeing they have only 20 people on file who they can recruit!!

I believe there could be a pilot shortage.....

[Dixondik]

Wow Kav, good to see your up to speed with everything....:D

[Naverick]

It's not Gallerina's attitude that's under the spotlight here. He/she is only echoing the frustration felt by most crew that I've come across in the company.
Most REX employees simply felt let down by the current management team. In fact a lot of the guys/girls I have spoken with recently, admit they would probably think twice about leaving if T&C's were improved, especially those coming up for promotion.

Good managers would have had some foresight in this area some time ago.
The current mangement team are the ones displaying the attitude, not the Gallerina's!!

Good luck and look forward to hearing some positive news.

[areal]

Unfortunately, while Rex is being run by ex pilots and flight attendants who have little or no management or people skills, who have only ever flown a saab and forgotten what its really like on the front line then things will never improve. Its these people that NEED to let the little tight singaporian crook know how crew should be treated!

Gallerina - My point is that the way your personal attack on the chairman of the board is not acceptable behavior from a professional like you.

I'ts all well and good to express an opinion on the company you work for but your comments have crossed the line.:=

[The Kavorka]

What line would that be Areal........The Truth..:mad:

[areal]

It could be considdered the truth if Gallerina could produce some evidence of the singaporian actually being a crook!
Otherwise it is speculation and baseless accusations.
It may well be that "the singaporian" is not the one responsable for all of your woes?

[The Kavorka]

Is that not what this entire website is about?:ugh::ugh:

[areal]

NO - I don't think this website is about publically slandering individuals

[The Kavorka]

Areal,

You must not read to many other posts, seems to me there's a hell of a lot of slandering going on!!!!!

I say if the cap fits!!!!!!!!!

[areal]

Yes you have a good point there TK but does that make it acceptable?

I'm trying to suggest that it may be OK to publish comments on companies and how they ar run but it is not acceptable to do so on individuals.

[The Kavorka]

Areal

Fair point, it's seems the situation at REX is getting quite emotional for some who are getting very jack of it all!!

[Naverick]

I think that Gallerina was using the word 'crook' as a figure of speech. This thread was created, to point out that ownership/management at REX have reaped huge rewards through the 'workers' hard work and professionalism, whereas the conditions have taken a backward step.

Some contributors seem unable to recognise the fiscal injustices that REX employees are currently experiencing.

[areal]

it's seems the situation at REX is getting quite emotional for some who are getting very jack of it all!!

It certainly is.

[Gallerina]

areal... didnt mean to use the forum to point out an individual, thats not the spirit of the thread.

everyone else...cheers for understanding what was trying to be conveyed and for the well wishes at the new place! Thank god we are all on the same side and are aware of what needs to change!

Shooter.... cant believe your'e still so obsessed about my psuedo :):)

[Under Dog]

Where I come from the Buck stops at the top, so if the person that runs the show is not aware of what is going on with middle management then he or she is out of touch and should get their just deserts.


Regards The Dog

[shooter]

Hey Gallerina, congradulations on the new job and good luck for the future!
I'm not obsessed with the name but it's getting more and more intriguing the more you avoid the question!

hey shooter!
My name is nothing to do with anyone in Adl or Rex at all...just airline jargon...

[Guptar]

I have been told recently that there has been a large number of new hires who have resigned because they dont want to put up with the games of 1 T&C person. It seems that this individual works fanatically to find anyones weakness and then zeroes in on that weekness, not to help/improve but to make the kill.

Is it true that before every cyclic in the sim, crews say goodbye, as they more than likely will fail it and get sacked on the spot?

If thats the case, I dont think I want to work in that environment.

[wrongwayaround]

Guptar,

I think from reading the REX threads this may be the case.

How awfully disappointing. No-one would have made it to that spot if they didn't want to be there.

It really saddens me. :(

[KRUSTY 34]

Guptar,

These things can sometimes take on a mind of their own. Morale at REX has been better, but I feel you may be getting a coloured perspective.

I can assure you there is no targeting of individuals that I am aware of.

The axe can be sharp in these checks, especially when CASA are in the observers seat. If new guys are resigning, it's because they have received a better offer (lot of that going on these days)

As for failing a Sim, and getting sacked on the spot, nonsense! People do fail to make the standard from time to time, it happens. With assistance, they undergo remedial training and virtually always pass the next check without problem.

[Stubby]

Nice come back krusty its obvious that you are in fact involved in the REX PC in some way.
True its an unpaid and often thankless job but if you really dont want to do it then dont. The fact still remains that the same issues seem to continue to go around in circles, the majority of pilots within the company think that management are making a joke of you lot, simple EBA issues like providing crew with rain jackets, docking pay illegally for not putting some sick/holiday form in plus other EBA issues as mentioned throught out this forum. If they dont listen the union has the power to take these issues to the industrial relations court, yes EBA's are legally binding. Maybe as a Pilot body we should consider finding a new union representative??

Finally Krusty if I have spoken out of turn or offended I apologise i'm frustrated by the process and i'm sick of turning up to a work place with morale the way it is at the moment.

[KRUSTY 34]

Stubby,

I may not always agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say It.

I more than anyone else know how frustrating it is. But hang in there.

We are after all dealing with a@sh@les!!

[Naverick]

What i predicted on 6th April has happened. More resignations imminent in the next few days.

Rex management;
If you had taken this thread seriously, a number of us ex skippers would have possibly stayed in rex employ, happily making you profit in your new ++'s. Unfortunately in the not too distant future, you will have no toy left to play with. All that was required was a realistic increase in salarys and improved conditions. In other words, treated as professionals.

You are reaping what you sowed!! In fact if I were you guys, I wouldn't bother waiting for the bonuses, get out while you can and when you come over, I promise I wont go too hard on ya in the sim!:ugh:

[The Kavorka]

Well said NAV

The other side is much brighter and a much easier life....and heaps more cash

Glad I got out when i did....

[OnTheShaker]

There has been plenty of banter on this thread and fact is its a good thing.

REX is a company who's ambition is currently FAR FAR outweighed by its capability...or lack of it.

Firstly, Senior management, Well simply the current CEO :} has no idea...history can prove the disaster this man had on Kendall and Airlink. Oh..Thats OK he got his son a job.. When there were plenty of other guys applying who can actually fly and with much more experience... Oh thats right the Manager of C&T fails them...Thats the main thing. I would like a dollar for every time this incompetent man has said "were working on that"

Check and training is based on the NASA example ie' does not apply to any commercially based airline operation..thats OK too, I mean he finally got his ATPL subjects after what was it ?? 7 attempts !!!!

Lets have a meeting !!!:yuk:

The companies current operations staff are , on the most part, arrogant and useless ( It seems they were taught by the gate staff !!). They have NO ability to deal with anything dynamic but thats Ok too... just keep letting the Ops manager create carnage, i mean she must be able to manage she a manager, it says so after her name . As long as the sun shines. Oh while we are at it Lets have a meeting !!!:yuk:

Crewing.......OUCH, Rex crewing will certainly have to be the subject of a CASA investigation shortly, FACT: They have been asking staff to "amend" sign off times to allow them to work the next day when a CAO 48 rule would exempt them...This is not rumour its a FACT.

Pilots: Shake a tree and they'll fall out ....just ask the CEO, you will have to yell loudly when you ask as his head will either be in the sand or firmly up Lim Kim Hais ass.... Now Thats a Fact !!!

The current Rex pilot committee is run by "yes" men with little or no regard for their fellow pilots...why....Simply they're the ones who cant get a job anywhere else. the current committee president should think himself lucky to be where he is to start with ..Sorry hes at another useless meeting !!:yuk:

THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT AT LEAST 95% YES 95% OF REX EXPERIENCED PILOTS ARE OR ARE LOOKING TO MOVE ON. They will !!!

Now on top of all this you would expect a reasonably managed company to tread very lightly indeed NO NOT REX... LETS BLOODY GO INTO QUEENSLAND. Cant upset that Singaporean (I know spelling...who cares) mentality...I mean it works... save face... its done wonders for Asian airline safety records.:D

Pause....Meeting time again !!!:yuk:

Now you all must think I'm being a little harsh. Just look at the content of the threads posted by that Baxter road #@*?@~ "From the Top", your username says it all, but I'm just telling you all the truth.

Rate REX staff morale on a level of 1 to 10....easy -9999999999999999999999999999999999999999.5, The point five is there to remind all staff that you can never achieve 100%, just ask C&T !!!

Aircraft....CRAP...That about sums it up at the moment

Meeting time again..Good to avoid the real issues !!:yuk:

Catering (Sorry if my spellings a bit off as its hard to write while laughing so hard)....well, we call it catering...CRAP

Management......Sorry in a meeting !!!:yuk:

Staff facilities..There are none so I cant call it crap, The minute staff car park is OK "We don't have to provide you with a carpark" so we just keep lining up and wait for a spot, usually after sign on.

Fresh Milk "We don't have to provide you with fresh milk" but well discuss it in another meeting, helps to prolong and avoid the point.

Payrise......."No money":= It will have to be the subject of a meeting anyway....:yuk:

Now I know all this stuff is hard to fix, it will require putting pen to paper and seeing as the CEOs hand is so sore from all the cheesy hand shaking he does at company funded luncheons and outings (remember theres no money for milk) I assume it will take a while to get this actioned...I know lets have a meeting !!!:yuk:

Now i know theres going to be the ones who disagree with me and claim I've been too harsh but I suggest you guys spent more time in Baxter road or at a pilot committee meetings :yuk:

The simple facts are people that REX:................

REX is a crumbling company, they can not keep up the current rate of effort and things are only going to get worse, there are currently a constant stream doing J*, QF, Cathay and the like and there will be many many more resignations in the coming months.

The lowering of the overall experience level and the climbing level of arrogance amongst the newly recruited will ultimately only lead to on thing and we know what thats going to be.


Please pause now for a meeting....:yuk:

The company is definately not committed to fixing these problems properly... as long as they can be hidden from Lim Kim Hai, thats all that matters in the short term.:D

I looked up REX in the dictionary, its said.... REACTIVE, out of interest I looked up PROACTIVE..its said "Every other Airline"

Well folks thats about it, just looking forward to another summer with only one servicable aircon on the Tarmac and the usual one servicable GPU...Thats OK geoff said 2 years ago "were working on that !!"


look on the bright side, less poor wx for ops to deal with

Bye...Im off to my second job to pay the rent until Virgin calls

[Zhaadum]

OTS,

Mate that post was GOLD! :)

Z. :ok:

[The Kavorka]

OTS.....

I could not have said it any better myself!!!!!!!

I see now they have a bare CPL holder on a course.......

This company is a :mad:'n JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2p!ssed2drive]

Bare CPL holder?

huh? ya sure?

[OnTheShaker]

Thanks Guys, Not only is REX living in a fantasy world but its going very close to having a substantial amount of reporting to CASA and the ATSB. They are now flagrantly ignoring CAO48 when it suits them....YES CHRIS THEY ARE !!!! and the MEL list on most aircraft would rival a 200 series 747 !!!

Jump Ship guys if you can because all it will take is a small accident to close them down.

Oh Sorry...the 800 hour "pilots" have seen it all and experienced it all...Theyll save us !!!!!

Oh by the way did you hear...REX will now be importing Asian Air for the Tyres a....apparently its cheaper.

AS FOR THE SYD CARPARK......REX MANAGEMENT WAIT THE F@*>?* UP !!!

From what ive heard all but one SYD training Captain has interviews elsewhere.

GO VIRGIN, J*, QF, CATHAY, ROYAL HUNGARIAN AIRLINES

OOPS almost forgot Time for a meeting...Thanks Geoff "We are working on That !!"

P L E A S E !!!!!!!!!:ugh:

[OnTheShaker]

Yes, He has 250 hours and is what the managers call an "Experiment"

Looked up experiment in the dictionary.........

said "JOKE" :D

Ha Ha Ha .... Wont be laughing after 300 hours of line training...I now pronounce all REX captains "Training Captain" Big Badge on its way for you Fellas but guess What ???......NO MORE PAY FOR YOU.....YOU COME BACK 1 YEAR !! :=

[OnTheShaker]

Stay in the office Jim, we can see what a fine job your doing there :D....Nice organisation on the earlier Ground handling Contract by the way.


Stay in the Office !!!!!!:ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

Holy sh!t PCP.

11 months to post a reply!

Have you seen the Company reports. Details the remuneration packages for the top executives (CH amongst them).

That's why he hasn't left.

That's why he sells his soul to maintain the staus quo.

[shooter]

That's why he sells his soul to maintain the staus quo.

What do you mean by that Krusty, it's not like you to get personal!

Chris has maintined all along that the pilot shortage would come to an abrupt end and now it seems as though he was right. I don't see how that is selling your soul!

[apache]

do you REALLY think that the pilot shortage has ended ???

I think this is just a speed hump along the way to a much bigger crisis.

Fuel prices are NOT sustainable at this level indefinitely, and when they retunr to more normal levels, I think that ou will see a much greater movement from underpaying companies.

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday shooter, long time no hear.

You're right. Sometimes the frustration can get to one. I'm sure that the REX Chief pilot has nothing but the complete welfare of his pilots at heart. Promises are always carried through, and undertakings are always acted upon. The exit interviews for the irreplaceble Check and Training Captains that REX has lost (and are about to lose) have probably yielded a wealth of data with which the management team can use to tackle this situation. Also, the transparent and timely way in which REX has negotiated with the REXPC during the current EBA is I'm sure, a shining example of Management/Employee relations.

When you see Chris, would you be kind enough to offer Krusty's appology for his unthinking comments. Probably when he collects his bonus would be a good time! Money(and lots of it) does have a way of "Clarifying" ones perspective.

Regards.

[SIUYA]

apache.........

You asked:

do you REALLY think that the pilot shortage has ended ???

I'd have to say 'YES', and it's not because supply has caught up with demand, but because demand has slowed very rapidly due to the present mind-boggling high price of oil.

I think the present 'crisis' though is more than just a speed hump, and that it's going to be a relatively drawn-out affair, with quite a number of airline casualties. It's already happening in the US, and there are signs of 'airline stress' starting to emerge in our market now as well. :{

Oil prices just keep on rising, and Brent Crude is now >US$145/barrel. Which sort of negates the REX $4 fare surcharge that it imposed as of yesterday in response to crude at US$140.

In a media release on 27th June 2008, the REX GM Network Strategy & Sales stated:

'With the price [of oil] hitting $140 USD per barrel this week we have to react promptly to ensure the partial recovery of this cost for the essential service we provide.'

I'd be interested though in seeing what base oil price REX is using for its costings. I'd also be interested in seeing just how much more the market will 'bear' in terms of continual increases of fuel surcharges on top of price rises for just about everythinbg else before it says it doesn't want or simply can't afford REX's 'essential services', because it now regards the purchase other 'essential services' such energy to heat homes, health care, etc. as being a hell of a lot more important than air travel at the moment. :ugh:

The GM Network Strategy & Sales also commended REX for the 'tremendous efficiency gains' it had achieved over the past six years.

Oh dear, that can't be good! :eek:

From what REX pilots are saying, part of those perceived 'efficiency gains' over the past 6 years seem to have been at the expense of expected wage increases for the troops. So I guessing that with the latest price hike of oil more or less immediately negating the latest $4 fare surcharge, then the continued quest for 'efficiency gains' seems almost certain to ensure that there'll be no salary increases this time around too! :{

I wonder if it's now a case that those who have deferred their movement from underpaying companies may have perhaps left their run a little too late at this stage?

[RYAN TCAD]

With oil now passing US$146/barrel on Fridays close, its not looking good. Another aspect that not many people talk about is the fact that Australia is lucky at this point in time to have its dollar near parity with the US'.

If the dollar drops, the price at the bowser increases.

[SIUYA]

RYAN TCAD..........

Of real concern are the predictions of oil >$200 USB/barrel because of the present demand>supply problem.

There's comment that it may even go as high as $250USD (see the ninemsn article Oil prices blaze past record $US146 (http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=591712)).

Now that's REALLY going to hurt! :ooh:

And if it gets to $250USD then no-one will even be able to afford to drive to the airport, let alone buy a ticket that includes a fuel surcharge component to cover that price! :{

Lucky you got your raincoats when you did KRUSTY. You'll be able to use them as hootchies if/when the Company cancels all the overnight hotel/motel accommodation arrangments for crews in its never-ending quest for further efficiency-gains! :suspect: