CTC Wings NZ

[pilotdude09]

Howdy,

Just stumbled accross these guys www.ctcwings.co.nz They looks pretty professional etc and they offer really good facilities. They seem to want to help people get into the industry :ok:

How hard are they to get into? and if youre a Kiwi living in Aussie what would the chances be like to get into them. They say they train 140 pilots a year.

When do they recruit? How much?

If anyone knows anything about them at all shout out! :)

Thanks

[27/09]

Yes, professional, very good facilities from what I hear.

Helping people into the industry?........... I'm not so sure. They were running a instructor cadetship programme. However the figures I heard quoted made it a very very expensive instructor rating. Would cost half the price else where. I think they paid some of the costs for those successfull to get a cadetship, but even then it really wasn't that good a deal.

Seem to have some quirky ideas, (probably a result of the companies UK origins), like some of them having to operate on the sealed runway when the grass vectors would be prefectly OK.

Don't know about their recruitment or how much they pay, though I have heard they pay reasonably well.

How hard to get in, don't know about that either, but if it's any help I know that quite a few instructors from this side of the ditch were looking at China Southern in Perth.

[haughtney1]

Seem to have some quirky ideas, (probably a result of the companies UK origins), like some of them having to operate on the sealed runway when the grass vectors would be prefectly OK.


Quirky or otherwise, the company has airlines lining up to take graduates off their hands.
27, your comment suggests to me that you are viewing the organisation from a GA viewpoint....from day 1 they train as though you are a line pilot for an airline, not a GA company mindset at all.

[komac2]

How ya, From CTC info Pack: The Selection Process is the same as The UK Trainees and conducted at The CTC Base at Ham Airport would have the same pass/Fail rate as the UK students check their pprune thread, RE: KIWI in AUS the biggest problem would probably be getting to Hamilton for the Selection Process if you get past the application - I would say Aussies would also be Eligible as they have to right to reside and work in NZ, Cost wise you would have to check with Nmit as they are covering the Students loans on this one as part of their Aviation diploma program , Courses start every two months the first course containing Kiwis started two weeks ago with 5 onboard all from Hamilton(Local Radio News report), their are 36 course places allocated for anyone eligible to live and work in NZ per year , their latest wings brochure for uk trainees says if not eligible for the wings cadet scheme in the uk to try the CTC wings CPP program in NZ, if interested you should e-mail them and get an info/application pack via the website they seem to be keen to get kiwis interested in the program, Re: Instructors thats a totally different courses for CPL/IR qualified individuals.

my personally opinion and I will probably get stick on this - this would be the best Challenging Career Pilot training available in NZ outside of the military at the mo That my Opinion probably not anyone elses but thats me - I am not affiliated with CTC in anyway.

Cheers and have a great weekend

[milkbottle]

sounds like a real challenge if theyre not allowed to land on the grass

[komac2]

That would be Personal Opinion not Personally: - RE: not allowed to use grass Runways - they do use the grass runways, example here CTC Cadet Blog under wed 21 March 2007 http://Pilotrob.wordpress.com

[glekichi]

The UK cadets get jobs because the UK has a pilot shortage and 250hr pilots are acceptable to airlines. If you have the right to live and work in the UK, then this school might be a good option.
Here at home in OZ/NZ though, Id say that you're going to be hard pressed to find an airline that will take on a 250hr cadet, regardless of how "professional" the training is. There are still plenty of pilots in OZ and NZ with real world charter experience, and believe it or not, they have more than 250hrs in their logbooks.
On the other hand, if you look at things realistically, you probably will have a good shot at getting a job instructing there when you're done, if you do the training with them.
Most NMIT affiliated schools hire mostly ex-students.... so I would reccomend that the best way to choose a school is to look at the kind of work they do other than the instructing.
The organisation I trained with took me on full-time only 6 months after my course ended, and in another 9 months (maybe less) Ill be doing twin charter and air ambulance. Hard to complain about that really.

[NZLeardriver]

a number of NZ airlines...

:hmm: :hmm:

[pilotdude09]

Thanks everyone esp Komac2 and 27/09.

Im going to email them and ask for a info package and email them a list of questions. They say they will take someone with 0 hours so they should be interested if i have 15 hrs?

Getting to Hamilton isnt the problem money wise its just the time to get there. Gotta fly from here to perth then to sydney then id just use SJ to Hamilton.

Does the course only run for 2 months? or is it a year?

I think cadetships etc are a good way into GA aswell you get that basic knowledge and working in a 'proper' environment which you dont get going through a flight school.

Once again thanks, if anyone else knows anything about these guys shout out! :)

[Cypher]

The UK cadets get jobs because the UK has a pilot shortage and 250hr pilots are acceptable to airlines.
That is exactly right. I used to work for CTC.
This is not the case with airlines in NZ. If you had the right to work in the EU, I would apply for the full wings course and get placed with a sponsor airline. The cadets are usually told which airline they are going to during or before training. If thats not job security I don't know what is.
However if you are a kiwi with no right to work in the EU, then this place would be good if you wanted a job there.
Realistically if you have to work your way though G.A then frankly this place won't help you much. (think overtures of Massey)
CTC have been making noises about trying to place cadets with certain New Zealand Link carriers but I can't see this happening in NZ.
I don't believe that regional carriers in NZ have the time or resources to take in 250 hour cadets and train them, where easyJet does with simulators readily avail in the UK. easyJet also have a large number of training captains and routes to assist with training where by in NZ there is often only a limited number of training slots, which are often used just to keep up with recurrency training.
By all means CTC is not a bad place to get a start and well paid, Just don't believe the hype and count on walking into a multi turbine job with 250 hours in NZ.
Does it really matter what runway surface you land on? How does it make it less professional if you land on grass?
The quality of training doesn't come down to whether you land on grass or tarmac or how shiny the planes are. lf you want good quailty training, then find a good quality instructor. Some one who has been in airline. Several come to mind that are in the local area and are great instructors. PM for details

[pilotdude09]

Thanks guys, hopefully one day we will have a shortage and get into majors with 500hrs :}

[haughtney1]

CTC have been making noises about trying to place cadets with certain New Zealand Link carriers but I can't see this happening in NZ.
Well I guess you will need to contact a certain Hamilton based Link operator and tell them that the tie up they now have with CTC is a waste of time:ok:

I don't believe that regional carriers in NZ have the time or resources to take in 250 hour cadets and train them

Which is EXACTLY why they are now using CTC (and their process)...because after some very expensive training failures of late..they have decided that it is time to take a different approach.

[glekichi]

Hey haughtney,
Are you sure they are set to be hired on completion of their course, not just given (a.k.a. paying for) a bit of extra training?
I heard about some connection there too, but I was under the impression that it was the UK carriers wanting their cadets to have a bit more experience and therefore paying (at the trainees' expense, of course) that particular turbine operator to give them that experience. I.e They aren't actually hiring 250hr pilots, but rather taking money and training them.
The amount of money available to training organisations is already stretched for a student doing a basic PPL & CPL in a light trainer plus a bit of twin time... I cant see that local students will be able to afford to pay for their own turbine time.
One rumour suggested the UK cadets are paying 240,000 pounds for the course..... Even assuming pounds and NZ dollars have been confused, this would suggest that they pay at least triple what the locals pay. (And might afford them some time in a 1900).

[haughtney1]

One rumour suggested the UK cadets are paying 240,000 pounds for the course..... Even assuming pounds and NZ dollars have been confused, this would suggest that they pay at least triple what the locals pay.
As far as I'm aware, the cadets pay upwards of £70,000 for the entire course...they then enter a holding pool and when required are sent off to partner airlines for type specific and line training at no further cost to themselves, and from there they are employed.
I am told from someone at CTC (in management) that this is what they are doing with the link operator, and that Air NZ are also going to take cadets onto the 737 very shortly.
As far as what the cost is in NZD's I have no idea.

[1279shp]

Bay Flight International @ NZTG (Tauranga City Airport).

[email protected] +64 7 575 2747

Hooks - the CFI/Owner - is a legend! Learn to drink Coruba if you end up going!

Just taken over some helicopter training I hear too? Anyone?

[Bankstownboy]

So just wondering, for an Aussie who would like to get into the airlines, CTC is of absolutely no use?

Thanks in advance...I think I already know the answer. If only there was an organisation like this in Oz.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Yep I've heard the gossip as well but the plain fact of the matter is right now at this moment in time, no NZ regional let alone major airline has EVER taken a pilot straight out of flying school that I'm aware of, be it Eagle or Cook or Nelson or Airwork, be it CTC or Massey or Waikikamukau aero club or anyone who claims to have the connections.

Not disbelieving your sources for a second haughtney but I heard the exact same b******t a decade ago, in as many words, from the mouth of the so called super well connected management at Flightline. It was all just around the corner waiting to happen, Air NZ had done these audits and were so impressed with Flightline product in the wake of the Indo training contract and it was going to be 747 S/O jobs for all the boys and God knows what else. I know with retrospect that Massey and Ardmore were spilling the exact same crap with regard to their own schools to get students on board way back then as well.

Getting your freshly graduated students into right seats - especially Koru painted ones - has always been the holy grail of flying schools down home and a LOT of money has been fleeced off a lot of kids, on the basis of some always exclusive-to-this-particular-flying-school deal that was always just over the horizon and just about to be done.

General consensus amongst the captains up here in my outfit in the UK is that the CTC cadets are in fact pretty good - but this is here and NZ is there, and the hard fact is there's a widely accepted 50 year culture of 200 hour airline pilots up here, and a 50 year culture of the exact opposite down under.

Until I see actual evidence of meaningful numbers of students from any particular school, successfully getting into airlines ahead of high-hours GA pilots, then I still as an NZ wannabe wouldn't be touching CTC or Massey or any of these so called premium product schools. Right now all I see is punters paying a huge amount extra for the exact same licence and exact same extremely slim chance of not ending up on the dole queue when they've finished.

[haughtney1]

Not disbelieving your sources for a second haughtney but I heard the exact same b******t a decade ago, in as many words, from the mouth of the so called super well connected management at Flightline.

No worries Luke:ok: To be honest I was a rather skeptical given that I remember similar things coming out of Massey, Flightline, and AFS all those years ago.
It just so happens that I very recently shared a sim revalidation (and a few beers) with the head of training from CTC..so we will see:ok:
He was adamant that this is happening, happy though to be proved wrong as it would have stuffed my ambitions all those years ago:ooh:

[pilotdude09]

Wow, thanks for everyones responses being it opinions/views, advice etc :)

The last 2 days i have been doing some serious thinking and weighing all my options up.

I have come up with the top 3 after trawling most likley every bloody flying school in Aussie:

WA Aviation College: Adv. Diploma, which if im reading correctley basically gives you a CPL for AUD$43,000.00 from 0 hours, which i think thats actually cheap after seeing some eastern state flight schools charging double that figure to get your CPL with them.

CTC Wings NZ: This looks a good option as well, only prob is i would have to move back to NZ :(

Fast track pilot course: http://www.ftpilottraining.com/ doesnt look too bad but i think it would be really fast paced where as the WA Aviation College might give you time to let it all soak in?


I was wondering if it was worth starting a new thread RE: WA Aviation College? They seem to have a well structured course any opinions or knowledge on them?


Might go get some sleep, spent over 8hrs doing some research!! :ooh:

Thanks guys! Keep the info comming :)

[Bankstownboy]

That fast track course does actually look kind of interesting. Checked out the website and they say they do computer based theory as opposed to ground school lectures. Interesting...

[Cypher]

Yes, I've heard a certain Hamilton based Link operator is using CTC in their pilot evaluation interviews during day 2....

However we are talking about using the CTC simulator to evaulate candidates in much the same way they used to use a certain Ardmore based flying school for their simulator to evaluate candidates on their basic I/F..

Far from taking 250 hour pilots into the RHS of the mighty 1900.
But i could be wrong.. :}

I have no doubt a 250 hour CTC cadet can do it. I've seen it and many of the cadets I taught are flying B757s and A320s now. Many have glowing reports and worked very hard to get where they are. CTC does have a way of weeding out the undesirables during training.

I just advise caution into joining a program which promises and holds the RHS carrot infront of many a student pilot, until it is proven. CTC is proven, however proven only in the UK. And to get into the UK, you need that ever elusive Right to Work in the EU.

The other problem I foresee with cadets in airlines in NZ is as Luke says, the '50 year culture of the exact opposite downunder'. Placing cadets into a airline is not just as simple as taking a cadet and placing them into a flight deck. The company culture has to be conducive to it. If 250 hour cadets start getting into the RHS of a B737 over the 3000-4000 hour Link driver who has worked every weekend for the last 10 years to get where he is, I see a bit of a revolt happening.
In saying that though, when easyJet take cadets, they only take a cadet stream, they still take experienced pilots as well as cadets, so that the experience levels going into the company is staggered and you don't get a experience 'hump' of experienced people all leaving the company at the same time. Cadets only alleivate a small problem of pilot recruitment, airlines still need experienced drivers.

But as I've stated in the past.. I could be wrong. (I don't work for Air NZ or Link so I'm only speculating about the response and culture)

[ZK-Awesome]

I'm looking into CPL options for when I leave school so...
being a New Zealander without a UK passport (or any chance or getting one), would the CTC wings scheme be able to help me into an airline job as they do for their UK cadets? I understand the UK cadets go back to the UK to do further training with the airline for the type rating etc, but what about NZers? If I didn't/couldnt get a UK passport or whatever, could I still get a job over there via CTC, or would I have to wait for an airline cadetship closer to home (NZ, Australia)?

Am I right in saying that CTC currently has no australasian airline partners to send cadets to? If that's the case, there's not really any point in me doing the CTC cadet thing unless I know that I can work in europe. Is this right? It's still a few years off anyway, things could have changed by then, I'm just exploring my options at this stage...

ZK-Awesome

[ZKSUJ]

Luke skyToddler "I know with retrospect that Massey and Ardmore were spilling the exact same crap with regard to their own schools to get students on board way back then as well."

Some would argue that one of these places at least is still doing that. I know a few people who have been misinformed into signing up for a certain degree course... :rolleyes:

In every training organization, you have the quick learners and the guys that take a little longer. With 250 hours, I'm sure that there are guys and gals from around the country who probably could operate a PAX aircraft satisfactorily from the right hand seat, its not limited to CTC. I know of non-CTC guys who go straight in to ATRs and 737s.

[ops.normal]

That's quite right. What you really want to look at is the syllabus that is taught by these outfits. Assuming the students are all about the same level in terms of handling, the techniques (IFR particularly) that the CTC Cadets and NZ Cadets are equipped with are very solid. Instrument flying at CTC is taught well.

Other schools - Bay Flight and Ardmore spring to mind - are churning out a bit of a rough product, irrespective of the student's particular abilities. If you take a few 250hr Kiwis, the ones who have been through CTC would handle the rigors of RHS turboprop flying better than any others.

CTC would also be one of the few schools in NZ to offer a legitimate step-up course in their airline preparation course. NZ students are expected to complete that as part of their training as well.

I would not reccommend that any NZers with UK or EU work rights apply for the UK Wings course - there is a serious amount of misinformation around at the moment. The so called pilot shortage in the UK has seen a few of their cadets who have finished their training sitting around for 6 months working in bars and racking up interest on 70,000 pounds.

[Chips]

From what i gather they seem to have strong airline ties both in europe and in new zealand, looking at their website it looks like the cadets do an airline appreciation course afterwards, but the proof will be in the pudding sometime next year when the 1st course is due to finish :ok:

[komac2]

Probably be sooner the first APC courses have or will be run sooner than the First CPP finishes.

[flyby_kiwi]

I thought the 'tie up' with CTC was to be in the form of some sort of ailine prep course, aimed at those with a bit of GA time but falling short of the usual experience requirements (be it multi or total time etc) - not fresh CPL's - Oh and ive heard the price tag is somewhere over $15kish.
I would have my reservations about anything someone at the upper end of a training organistaion has to say until I had heard the same(different) story from the airline involved.
One thing I have learnt over the years in aviation is that until it has actually happened it is nothing more than an empty promise.

[komac2]

well you could always try this one as well :

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc302/stargate10/wac.jpg