Spirit of Adventure [Archive]

Talking Radalt

5th Apr 2007, 14:52

Already been mentioned http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269112&highlight
Looks like an utter, utter load of tosh to me and it all starts with the page about "heroes and heroines" scripted by the civilian MD of the meeja company who are staging the whole thing. Is it me or is the Rock in the photo on said opening page making a "w@nker" sign? (see below):uhoh:
I'm truly mystified by the presence of the "Zapcats" at said event. They appear to be some kind of toy speedboat which is a) hardly going to get very far on the grass of Abindgon airfield and b) more appropriate to the Royal Navy surely?
The "event" also seems to be weighed down with quirky ideas like "trendy" phone text messaging in order to decide the outcome of Jerry Bruckheimer's "RAF - The Movie" or something. Wakey wakey MOD, this ain't X-Factor.
The thing that sticks in my mind is how the aviation aspect of this "event" has been nudged in to second place to be replaced by apprently cool, trendy but ultimately quite vague "multimedia experiences", and bizarrely motorsport seems to feature very heavily. Maybe MT are undermanned and this is a thinly veiled recruiting drive. The real disappointment is the whole ethos behind this event suggests the Public need (and want?) to be entertained by the military rather than be genuinely informed about them.
:(
Abingdon Air Fayre (two weeks previous) is much, much cheaper and far less pretentious.
http://www.jervismediaevents.com/soa/DI/45145747.jpg <<< See what I mean?

Dan Gerous

6th Apr 2007, 08:34

Will it have a big sandpit? How about a few JPA terminals so the public can e-mail their responses to the unfolding scenario!

Wader2

15th May 2007, 14:08

Spirit of Adventure is a DefPR(RAF) concept, developed in close conjunction with Jervis Entertainment Media, to project Defence and the RAF in a modern an innovative setting through the new Engagement Strategy. The overall concept connects merchandise, video games, clothing, events and a feature film – all under the new RAF logo and brand.

Only £10 per ticket, plus booking fee of £1.50 plus additional £4.80 for up to 6 tickets. So for 6 ATC Cadets = £73.80 (really £12.30 each). Not bad, a minimum 23% hidden mark up.

f4aviation

15th May 2007, 15:34

Should be free, especially to cadets. :mad:

airborne_artist

15th May 2007, 15:40

Since the tax payer owns Abingdon, and all the assets being shown, and pays the guys displaying them, where's the cost?

Royal Tournament was not free, but ISTR some/all of the profits went to Services charities.

Pontius Navigator

15th May 2007, 18:52

ATC have to wear uniform too. Servicemen get in half price. Not sure what Joe Public is to pay, £20 a head?

The synopsis is amazing.

mystic_meg

21st May 2007, 22:35

Nice to see a full-page poster advertising this event in a well known aviation magazine describe one of the participating aircraft as a "E-30 Sentry!" :rolleyes: (F*yP*st, June edition, Page 17, if anyone's interested..)

Pontius Navigator

22nd May 2007, 07:38

And that's another Ppruner outted as an anorak.:)

mystic_meg

22nd May 2007, 08:18

And that's another Ppruner outted as an anorak.
- and that's another Ppruner confirmed as a small minded kn*b (Oh, and there's only one 't' in outed, too)

Lima Juliet

22nd May 2007, 21:07

I think they've been smoking whacky-baccy at DPR...

Synopsis of the Spirit of Adventure Movie

RAF - UFO - Battle for Britain

UFOs are sighted over various countries. Those clearly seen have been documented and descriptions match; no other military power has been able to capture one and the public think it is aliens. Top Secret: A Royal Air Force Typhoon engaged one and found it to be hybrid technology of Russian, American and European origin. The only tell tale sign is a symbol of a weighing scale, balanced by the Roman numeral II, with the letters The World Order (TWO).

To add to the public conspiracy theory, resources on earth are becoming scarce. Water, oil, natural gas, fertile land. But there is nothing greater than profit and control! A group of billionaires, led by the industrialist and notorious villain MARCUS MALBURN, have a new vision. They believe they will balance the 1st and 3rd world economies. Their agenda is a new world order. They are the 2nd world (TWO) operating in a clandestine manner. They have stolen the US military's plans for a grand design called Battle Island (it was too expensive to build for the world's only superpower); a series of individual floating & submersible platforms, that when combined is the size of small country! This makes it the ultimate aircraft carrier and ship to shore attack capabilities and technology. MALBURN has built it... Becoming a rogue state with massive firepower, capable of global reach and respecting no country's borders. Only the villainous MALBURN makes himself known, his backers remain anonymous and they and their agents could be walking amongst any nation.

The United Kingdom is his greatest threat. A previously unknown energy crystal (Bluefield) is at the heart of his quest. His scouting UFOs (recon' aircraft) have identified deposits. He must control the countries that have it before they even know it exists. Britain's role in the modern world is one of respect and power. What better country to use as an example to spread the message worldwide to the most formidable remaining military powers?

Against an enemy only they have uniquely encountered, the Royal Air Force will now be the first line of defence in the Battle for Britain!

WTF, Over???:confused:

God help us all...

LJ

Pontius Navigator

22nd May 2007, 21:15

Confused? No, simply bored after para 1.

Talking Radalt

22nd May 2007, 22:45

I thought the Bond franchise had gone back to basics? :uhoh:

Lima Juliet

23rd May 2007, 17:33

http://www.jervismediaevents.com/soa/DI/45145747.jpg

http://www.personal-development.info/images/Paul-McKenna.jpg

Maybe our station guard-force are turning into hypnotists? "Can I see your car-pass Sir?...Look into my eyes, not around the eyes...into the eyes...you want to be stationed at Kinloss...3,2,1, you're back in the room!"

Lima Juliet

23rd May 2007, 17:40

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jna/lowres/jnan7l.jpg

Or maybe he's a future gameshow host, "let's look at the old scoreboard..."?

I pity this man if he really is in the RAF :}

Redrover

26th May 2007, 17:33

Just returned from Abingdon.Counted approximately 600 cars present so around 1200 people (2 per car?) attended though quite a few cars where staff vehicles.

Show was very poor value for money at £25 entrance though flying could have been watched having only paid £5 for car parking..

Flying started at 1130.Large gaps in flying programme with only Tucano, Hawk,Typhoon ,Spitfire and Falcons displaying.

Role demo started at 1400 and was OK with good pyrotechnics (AWACS plus 2 Tornado F3s ,2 GR4s ,2 Hawks, No helis) and lasted 50 minutes. Reds finished the show at 1600.

Lots of RAF personnel looking very bored and unhappy caterers who had paid for pitches.They had been told to expect 15,000 people per day!

Cannot see that ,given the weather forecast, tomorrow's attendance will be any better.

Josh

Lima Juliet

26th May 2007, 18:08

It will of course be a collosal success and someone will get promoted and probably an OBE!!!

What a flop...embarrassed to be a crab-fat blue man.

LJ

Archimedes

26th May 2007, 19:52

The E-3, F3s and GR4s provided some entertainment to the crowds down by the river in Oxford for Eights Week. I overheard a couple of tourists say it was jolly decent of the RAF to put on a free air display for the last day of Eights, and they supposed that the display couldn't be directly over the river for safety reasons. Certainly gained the attention of, ooh, about 3,000 people, I'd guess.

So some decent PR for the RAF did result, albeit amongst several thousand people several miles away who paid nothing for the privilege of watching. And the food (cooked at the college boathouses) and drink was probably cheaper as well.

Talking Radalt

26th May 2007, 19:56

600 cars present so around 1200 people
Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Oh and it's just started hammering down outside. :hmm:

BEagle

26th May 2007, 20:28

Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind.

Shame that....

And only 17 years ago when the RAF still owned Abingdon, Thames Valley Plod were complaining about the traffic jams caused by the REAL air displays which the RAF could still afford back then.

If this pile of poo proves as much of a flop as everyone who knew anything predicted...well, sympathy can be found in the usual place in the dictionary. Between '****' and 'syphilis' and closer to 'Squadron Leader' than 'sorry'...:cool:

Spit the Dog

26th May 2007, 21:16

Having lived in Abingdon for 27 yrs and witnessed the previous At home Days and BofB days, this flop was fully predicted. I have been ranting on for weeks to however would listen about the total lack of promotion for the event in the local area. The only way the Abingdon community knew about this event was when the standard yellow AA signs appeared last Monday giving directions and little else. There has been no posters, radio publicity or flyers. Those that were fortunate to find any information were then horrified at the entrance price. This is hardly Fairford! If Abingdon can not muster up a fly-through appearance of a C-17, Tristar & VC10, based just 18 miles away, surely it proves how low key this event has been treated by the boys up top. With 2 major conflicts taking up the majority of the transport fleets flying hours, a skeleton shift left behind at Benson and Odiham, its obvious all your going to get is trng jets or a Typhoon. I feel sorry for those that have tried to make this a memorable event and the time they have commited, but if I feel this way, how do we expect a BMW plant worker, Tesco check-out operative or a Mays carpet fitter to feel.

fantaman

26th May 2007, 21:32

I scored a couple of free tickets from work so went along with a colleague to see if it was any good. Within about half an hour of being there I was bored silly and wanted to go home. If this is what’s suppose to encourage more youngsters to join the RAF then we really are in a sorry state.

Almost all the servicemen and women I seen looked like they couldn’t wait for five o’clock to come. The live show was terrible, I’ve never seen such a cheesy video! Fair play to the guys that took part in the TAC demo, at times it was very good but having to run along with the video, it seemed to be drawn out and began to get very tedious. The E3 and two F3’s seemed to spend the first 20 minutes capping at about 3000’ not really doing anything and certainly not drawing the attention of the crowd.

I’d love to see how much the RAF paid the civvy cowboys, sorry, Jervis Media. I'd be a pretty pee'd off bunny if I had paid £25 a ticket plus £5 for car parking plus £3.60 booking fee and a £4.80 transaction fee!

What a flop!

And the Jervis Entertainment Media guarantee...

Being at the forefront of the industry, we at JERVIS ENTERTAINMENT MEDIA LTD. are confident that you will be delighted with the service we provide. No matter what your media requirements, our personalised, bespoke service will give you the opportunity to fulfil your vision to the highest level.

Hmmmm :hmm:

Runaway Gun

26th May 2007, 21:38

What "Spit the Dog" might not appreciate is the difficulty of conjuring up a C17, Tristar or VC10.

Just adding a few extra tons of gas to the return trip to the UK for a timed flypast, just might mean that not everyone can get a seat home. How happy (or legal) do you think that the soldiers on board might feel about making their loved ones at Brize wait for another hour whilst they participate in an airshow?

Whilst your idea sounds simple, in reality every little change has far reaching consequences, legalities and difficulties. Such is the reality of the modern military force.

Roland Pulfrew

26th May 2007, 21:45

Fantaman

It is my understanding that the RAF paid nothing. The risk is/was on JEM, but I wonder if the Kinross show will go ahead or whether they will pull the plug now:E

Bring back At Home Days!!!:ok:

Archimedes

26th May 2007, 22:01

Had a look at the UK Airshow forum to see how it went down with the paying public.

"The only airshow where the loos outnumbered the punters" seems to be the most favourable observation...

Guernsey Girl II

26th May 2007, 22:04

Fantaman said: -

The E3 and two F3’s seemed to spend the first 20 minutes capping at about 3000’ not really doing anything

So apart from the height, fairly accurate :ok:

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 01:20

I went today, and paid to get in. By the time I'd paid my parking fee and driven over the grass several miles, I was wondering if I was in the right place. The complete lack of a crowd was noticeable. I paid the disinterested and obviously bored staff, and was confronted, at 11 o'clock in the morning, by people leaving and one group demanding their money back. Apparently Toady Jervis had published a map via the Herald local newspaper website with with Dr Who, Star Trek and other TV show stands on it, and some fans were disappointed not to see ANY of the stands there. Lie number 1.

I ran into an old air show freind of many years expereince and we compared notes on the crowd, 9 rows of 52 cars (yes, we counted!) makes for 1,872 people at 4 people per car. The RAF estimated 50,000 a day on its website after the Horseguards launch of the SOA, and JEM estimated 25,000 per day. Staff were then overheard telling people at least 8,000 people had been there today. Lie number 2.

The spectacular car action consited of 6 European NASCARs of dubious quality being driven up and down and doing the odd cowboy donut. Ho hum, deadly dull, except for the all-body RAF and Typhoon logo wearing Ford Fiesta, which was a gem of pathetic marketing and embarrasing "yoof" culture.

Jervis is quoted on his website as claiming that this would also be a shopping specacular. This consisted of the RAF clothing collection, the Red Arrows ground crew stand, and the Red Arrows Marketing Company stand. Lots of choice then, and lie number 3.

Conversations by my colleague with staff at the show revealed and interesting fact. The movie that was to save the day and be the centrepiece of the show was delivered late by JEM. This was also one of the reasons that the original show in August 06 was cancelled, it had not been finished. Despite the limited and hard to find pre-event press talking about an hour or 90 minute hollywood-style blockbuster film, the actual film delivered by JEM was under half an hour, and consisted mostly of Andy Turner and Terry Jervis in newsroom-style interviews. Terry Jervis may be many things, but a screen presenter he is not. Andy Turner may now hold a record for ums and ers in a pre-recorded video. Deadly dull, but a good high profile for the two gentlemen involved. In order to pad the film out, DDefPub staff spent Wednesday of last week in the Old War Office Building, splicing pieces of old RAF information films into the so called blockbuster movie, giving it about a 55 minute length. These splices had no relevant soundtrack, so on the day, the commentator had to improvise voiceovers, which sounded terrible in conjunction with the set soundtrack in the rest of the movie. There wan no interactivity at all, despite everyone concerned stressing this was a vital feature of the film. You sat and watched, and were deeply confused, then laughing out loud at the pitiful acting and appaling boys-own storyline. No aliens were involved, despite the JEM site pronouncements, and no interactivity becomes lie number 4.

The flying was pedestrian in nature and so far away as to be un-photographable. The much vaunted dogfight was two F3s, each following a Hawk in lazy circles at about 2,000 feet. The pyrotechnics set off in time to the RAF Regiment mortars and GR4 flypasts at least made my son jump, but thats all. Many of the aircraft in the published programme were simply not there.

I could go on, but the list of things that were promised but were not there, and the list of blatant mis-information about this show and its content would fill a small book.

Andy Turner should be made to show his accounts on this fiasco. Terry Jervis has proved himself an incapable shyster of the worst stripe. I would like to know why the RAF still has him contracted after his failure to produce this show last year, two magazine projects, a clothing range of any quality and most crucialy, a movie of acceptable length and quality to base a £25 a head show on. He should be asked to return the funds paid to him and be removed from his contract for so many clear breaches. I doubt this will happen, largely because of Jervis's colour, no one wants the racist slur cast at them do they?

My final comment must be a reply to the Turner/Jervis statement about the ticket price. Yes, it does cost more for a ticket to Twickenham, but the international rugby organisers don't lie to me about what I will see, and I get a solid 90 minutes and a half time entertainment. You failed to provide even that. And further, rugby doesn't iron its teething and technology problems out in front of a paying audience. You two should be ashamed, you have made the RAF a laughing stock.

For tomorrow, the only three simulator rides have left for the free airshow at Southend (estimated audience in excess of 500,000) and it is unlikely any flying will take place int eh forecast 400 ft cloudbase.

Sorry to go on at length, but I think these facts should be made public, Turner and Jervis censured, and both of them stopped from organising anything else that costs the RAF money and reputation.

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 01:27

danohagan

27th May 2007, 02:29

We can only hope the "truth will out" via the Freedom of Information Act in good time.

I worry what the flop will mean for the future of RAF participation in airshows. I hope the powers that be don't take the poor turnout and inevitable financial loss as an indication that there's no market for airshows as a recruiting tool. Anyone with half a brain could see that Spirit was going to be a colossal disaster.

I fully expect a media backlash at the waste of taxpayers money, and personally am intruiged to see if the Scottish sister event at Kinross goes ahead.

airborne_artist

27th May 2007, 06:01

My daughter had a grand time with the RAF in Oxfordshire yesterday - flying with 6AEF at Benson.

There was no publicity within the ATC org. for this event. How hard would it have been to have sent a poster to all the southern England ATC locations - it's in the public domain. Offer them x% discount for group tickets of 10, and hey presto, your numbers swell, and your ice cream van does a good trade.

BEagle

27th May 2007, 06:31

Today's weather does not look very promising. Brize is giving:
EGVN 270438Z 270606 VRB07KT 9000 -RA BKN008 TEMPO 0606 6000 RA BKN006 PROB40 TEMPO 0618 2500 +RA BKN004 BECMG 1417 01020G30KT BECMG 2023 BKN016 BECMG 0003 36012KT

However, if Jervis Media try to blame the undoubted flop this farce will prove to be on low cloud and heavy rain, that will be yet another lie.

Not normally given to schadenfreude, I can't help thinking that this absurd event was doomed from the start. An air show is an air show is an air show... Nothing else.

Nor would it have been difficult to arrange some participation from Brize-based aircraft, given the fact that this event was postponed from last summer.

However, it is the RAF squirearchy who are chiefly to blame. The low profile the RAF has these days has meant that the nation's yoof, bar the Air Training Corps, is no longer 'air-minded'. A giimmick-ridden overpriced nonsense such as 'Spirit of Adventure' is not going to restore air-mindedness in the UK's youngsters.

I have copies of the RAF 'At Home' day brochure produced for RAF Merryfield in 1953 and 1954. This was just one At Home day of many, held at a small training aerodrome in Somerset. Yet the quality and variety it manged to provide far outstripped the paltry efforts which seem to be all that the RAF - with or without the efforts of Jervis Media - can manage 43 years later.

How glad I am that I was around to enjoy the At Home days of the 1960s...

fat albert

27th May 2007, 08:18

Well well well...... RAF website this morning -

Following advice from the Met Office on the likely weather conditions today, the decision has been made to cancel today’s Spirit of Adventure at Dalton Barracks, Abingdon.

Poor weather conditions, including the likelihood of substantial heavy rain and low cloud all day, would have a major bearing on the safety of the flying programme on the second day of the event and the decision therefore has been taken before the majority of show-goers leave home.

The organisers regret the late notice of this decision however the event organisers were unable to reach this decision until just after dawn this morning following a weather update from the Met Office.

That's handy. Nothing to do with yesterday's bijou debarcle then?

Interesting that all the other guff on the Spirit of Misadventure site seems to have been deleted too......
:hmm:

BEagle

27th May 2007, 08:26

I wonder how many people who have already bought tickets (has anyone really done so?) will be checking the RAF website bfore setting off for ex-RAF Abingdon?

And, for a taste of what the RAF was like the year I joined, see:

http://www.petergoodearl.co.uk/airdays/raf50/index.htm

StopStart

27th May 2007, 08:32

Come come now BEags me old....

Surely this is more in line with the RAF airshows of your day.....

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/w/images/Avro504s_RAF_Pageant_1922.jpg

:ok:

BEagle

27th May 2007, 08:41

Oooh you can be such a bitch at times, Stoppers...:p

I missed the 1990 Abingdon air show as my brother was getting married on the same day. But by all accounts you lot had a pretty good time?

Incidentally, there's nothing on the 'Spiwwit of Adventure, bwavado and dewwing-do' website about the other show due to be held at Kinross, Jockistan. That really is Kinross, not ISK.....:rolleyes:

StopStart

27th May 2007, 08:59

It was a very quiet affair BEags. Must've been as I have little or no recollection of events..... :hmm:

Is it me or do both the Jervis Media website and the Spirit of Misadventure website look as though were designed as year 5 school web project? I would've thought that a meejah company would've had some grasp of the concept of presentation etc. I'm no web designer but I guarantee I could knock you up a better website than their efforts given about 30 mins on Front Page :rolleyes:

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 09:32

StopStart, that is a stunning photo! 504s! Ah, Avro!

Cancellation due to weather may mean they recover some of the miss-spent public money in insurance cover, if they had any. The shame of it is that the RAF has a wide variety of real experts to produce some superb events. All that effort and money has been hijacked by a grasping cretin in Jervis and an either unbelievably gullible or stupid ambitious Group Captain. How could Turner have trumpeted the SOA at Horseguards when the crucial film hadn't even been delivered?

Interesting you note their website competence BEagle, its on a par with everything else they do, the CGI in the Jervis movie was terrible. You could do a better website? I could have done better CGI with Flight Sim X and a bit recorder!

So Turner is off to Odiham as OC in July I now hear. Not on promotion at least. Major General Coward, you are about to get an officer who is the living embodiment of a little knowledge and a lot of ambition is a dangerous thing as one of your JHC station commanders. You have been warned.

Roland Pulfrew

27th May 2007, 09:37

It was a very quiet affair BEags. Must've been as I have little or no recollection of events.....

Hmmm. I was there in 1990. Wasn't that the night when some dentist tried to order all of the aircrew in flying suits out of the bar at the end of airshow party? And someone produced a copy of QR222 :E (IIRC) - pity they repealed that one!!!:{

A quiet affair :hmm:;)

Pontius Navigator

27th May 2007, 09:44

A_A, there was an email shot for the ATC came out week before last. Special ATC price just £10 and they had to wear uniform. That was another lie.

The website only requested that they wear uniform.

Oh, the price, that was a lie too.

It was £10 plus a booking fee of £1.50 plus a fee of £4.80 per group of 6. Maximum group size 6, which put the minimum price at £12.50.

But was that correct as the website had a group size of 20. Ho hum.

Oh, and the RAF got in at half price to, yes only £10 + ++ + of £12.50 or so.

BEagle

27th May 2007, 09:47

Wobbler Fang, it wasn't my obervation about their website, to be fair!

Ah, Roly, you've clearly never encountered the dry wit of Stoppers at first hand :).. If he says it was a quiet do....:suspect:

One understands that some of the female students took their allocated task of 'entertaining' visiting aircrew particularly diligently.....:E

f4aviation

27th May 2007, 10:00

The only saving grace to this long-predicted sorry affair is that only 2,000 now have a negative opinion of the RAF - it could have been a lot worse.
It's symptomatic of how poor the RAF PR machine is at the moment - there must be some irony in that DPR doesn't have a website or any obvious means of contact?
There is hope though - now that there will be a vacancy at the top of DPR, the RAF could do no better than look at its own Events team (http://www.air-scene-uk.com/hangar/2007/430events/events.htm) at Cranwell where it will find enthusiasm, engagement and a 'can do' attitude.

Toddington Ted

27th May 2007, 10:29

Well, I had my doubts too and I'm sorry that it was, by all accounts, a bag of so-and-so. I'm glad that I didn't bother to travel down to see it in the end. That said, I'd already seen much of the flying display being practised over our own Stn in deepest Lincolnshire earlier in the week.

Flying Legends at Duxford remains the only one for me. (Suits my age I guess!;))

samuraimatt

27th May 2007, 13:28

Come come now BEags me old....

Surely this is more in line with the RAF airshows of your day.....

Actually it was probably more like this

http://www.wright-house.com/wright-brothers/wrights/photos/Wright_Takeoff_prep.jpeg

It was probably more exciting than the Spirit of adventure.

The organiser's should be saying "come on where is your Spirit of Adventure its only a spot of rain".:cool:

AerBabe

27th May 2007, 17:04

ATC squadrons within Thames Valley Wing were informed about the event ... but only by our Wing staff, who worked hard with the region to put a PR effort together. Approx 15 staff and 60 cadets turned up and made the most of potential for recruiting. A fun day for those involved ... but I'm so glad we didn't pay.

As has been said elsewhere - great toilet:visitor ratio. :ok: :rolleyes:

Pontius Navigator

27th May 2007, 17:26

cornish-stormrider

27th May 2007, 17:53

Does anyone have a huge can of Turd Polish???

I remember when the last Vulcan did the tours, I was a sprog in St Mawgan too young even for the spaceys and that big thundering warbird did its stuff.........

I joinded as a sootie coz of that.......

Four big dirty olympus's put to the stops and the ground starts moving.

Talking Radalt

27th May 2007, 18:04

The whole Spit of Adventure shambles leaves me quietly seething.
I didn't pay to get in, I didn't have to work as (luckily) I wasn't dragged in to the whole sorry affair. So why am I annoyed?
Because this blatant mismanager and bull$hitter of the highest order Jervis has made us as an organisation look cheap. This event was meant to represent the RAF and represent us it has. Trouble is, that cuts both ways.
MOD really need to examine this bloke's record and compare his promises with his delivery.
How did he ever get the chance to fcuk up again after failing so miserably last year? Unforgiveable.

Lima Juliet

27th May 2007, 18:35

Talking Radalt...Well said mate, I too feel ashamed :(

By the way...someone mentioned the RAF Events team and how they should have run it. They were fully engaged on the role demo at Spirit of Adventure(you know the one that everyone has been sniping at - the F3/Hawk "dogfight", the lengthy CAP and Chinook) - I even believe that the main-man was doing the commentary. I saw a bit on BBC South last night and they had a clip of a NATO E-3A in the Spirit of Adventure "Movie" - I don't believe that the Gelienkirchen Wing are part of the RAF?? :}

BEags, how right you are about BoB At Home Days - I think the only thing that killed them off in the end was the Health & Safety Fun Police (disabled bogs, medical cover and extra stewarding) and the rising cost of insurance cover. I seem to remember Finningley making about £40-50k - which is not much when you consider that the majority of staff are working for free. This was the death of the Station Airshow as we knew it and along came Station Photo Days for spotters - less effort and the same profit margin!

I really hope they do pull the plug on Kinross - the Scots don't need a further excuse for devolution!!!

LJ :{

sirsaltyhelmet

27th May 2007, 19:00

Wobbler

You may say Andy Turner is accountable but at least he had the balls to try something different, he had the nouse to try and appeal to a younger generation by going for the interactivity and film principle. It may not have worked out as it said on the tin due to the Jervis input but at the end of the day they had a go.

If the Spirit of Adventure ideas, both at Abingdon and Kinross each generate a handfull of recruits then it has done its job.

My wife went a long with me yesterday. She, believe it or not enjoyed the concept of "the film" and the role demo. A few helicopters would not have gone amiss due to the close proximity of Benson and Odiham but as she said the principle was sound and entertaining.

Give the guys a break, they tried... Why not volunteer yourself for the DPR roles, I am sure you are all full of great ideas.

The RAF cannot afford to do "At Home Days" anymore, we have moved on and I think this was a step in the right direction. Get rid of Jervis by all means but I think Andy Turner and the DPR guys had the right idea.

BEagle

27th May 2007, 19:14

"The RAF cannot afford to do "At Home Days" anymore"

WHAT? Excuse me, but the ice-cream licking general public are your shareholders. Their taxes pay for you.

The RAF should damn well find a way of 'doing' At Home days for their shareholders.

sirsaltyhelmet

27th May 2007, 19:23

If they can find a way of doing it then great!! Think they will struggle with such a proportion of the RAF deployed.

Hence my view that the concept of "Spirit Of Adventure" could work.

Pontius Navigator

27th May 2007, 19:24

By the way...someone mentioned the RAF Events team and how they should have run it. They were fully engaged on the role demo at Spirit of Adventure(you know the one that everyone has been sniping at - the F3/Hawk "dogfight", the lengthy CAP and Chinook) - I even believe that the main-man was doing the commentary. I saw a bit on BBC South last night and they had a clip of a NATO E-3A in the Spirit of Adventure "Movie" - I don't believe that the Gelienkirchen Wing are part of the RAF?? :}

I mentioned this back in February. All airshows this year would be like the Abingdon Show except that the organisers had already started and gone too far on the old format. For 2008 expect this reaching out type show. The powers that be have decided that the traditional air show, seen by the traditional audience, the traditional beer tents and traditional stall-holders was not show-casing the RAF. It was not addressing the target audience - parents of future airmen. They were not reaching out to middle England, and Scotland, away from the RAF home ground. Better a display where there were no main bases etc.

A move away from the grand shows and fund raisers of the past.

Art Field

27th May 2007, 20:29

If one has to accept that The Spirit Of Adventure format is the way the Royal Air Force is to present itself to the general public from now on then surely there is much to be learned from the Abingdon fiasco.
Charging an outrageous entry and parking fee is no way to entice people to come and see you.
The event quite obviously failed on a national level, a more local, less ambitious approach with concentration on local publicity is required.
Right from the initial announcement the publicity failed to convince me and quite obviously the general public that there was substance to the stated attractions. Even the Red Arrows participation was badly described as a fly past [a large number of people watched them from outside the airfield], they were excellent.
There must have been some warning of impending doom that should have rung alarm bells to the RAF organizers. Commercial companies may lose the cash but the RAF loses its reputation.

fantaman

27th May 2007, 20:44

Maybe the DPR and Jervis should have a good long hard look at what Northolt are doing on the 10th June 2007.

Northolt Photocall 2007.

Down to the efforts of one man, RAF Northolt charities are set to raise quite a bit of cash from his efforts. What makes it even more extraordinary is, he isn't even mil, instead he is a civvy air traffic controller based in London.

So far, he has managed to secure the following participation.

Tornado GR.4 12 Sqn
Tornado GR.4 31 Sqn
Tornado F3 111 Sqn
Chinook 27 Sqn
Westland Merlin RAF
Squirrel HT.1 DHFS
Beech 200 RAFC
Dominie T.1 RAFC
Hawk 4FTS
Tucano 1FTS
Agusta A.109 32 Sqn
BAe 125-CC3A 32 Sqn
Falcon 20 FR Aviation
Meteor T.7 Martin Baker Ltd
Harrier GR7 800 NAS
Puma HC.1 33 Sqn
Sea King HC.4 Royal Navy
Typhoon RAF
Wasp HAS1 BN Helicopters
Gazelle HT.2 ETPS
2x Hawk 100 Sqn
Jet Provost
DH82B Queen Bee
A.109 Belgian Army
Alouette 3 Belgian Navy
Sea King Belgian Air Force
2 x Bo105P German Army KHR36 Fritzlar
German Army KHR26 Roth
Bo105 HFVS910 Buckeburg
2x A10A 52nd FW/SP USAFE
AN-28 CSAR Polish AF
Embraer 135 Belgian AF
AN-28 30 Sqn Polish Navy
AH-64D Apache Netherlands AF

I know this is different from the Spirit of Adventure but I'm positive this will draw even more of a crowd than the SofA. This would be more of a recruitment sucess than SofA would ever have been.

The RAF cannot afford to do "At Home Days" anymore

So we cant afford or cant commit to at home days or airshows but one civvy can organise this?

Well done Graf mate, keep up the good work :ok:

Talking Radalt

27th May 2007, 20:46

You may say Andy Turner is accountable but at least he had the balls to try something different........It may not have worked out as it said on the tin due to the Jervis input but at the end of the day they had a go.

No, no, no. Stop right there. This was tried last year and Jervis screwed it up then. Involving Jervis once is a mistake, twice is just plain stoopid and THAT is the issue here. Maybe MOD will have finally got the message this time and pull the plug on this shambolic half-excuse for a meeja management company.
Who ran the Royal Tournament? Get them. (Or the Top Gear team!:ok:)
A few helicopters would not have gone amiss due to the close proximity of Benson and Odiham
An ickle bird told me that, with less than a month to go and still no word from SoA HQ, the Staish at EGVO decided to give it all a very wide berth.:D
Edit: A quick search of the BFI database or freelance IMDB.com shows Jervis has worked on Award shows, ethnic telly, or 10-minute shorts. Not exactly Ridley Scott.:hmm:
http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/individual/289951?view=credit

fantaman

27th May 2007, 20:58

An ickle bird told me that, with less than a month to go and still no word from SoA HQ, the Staish at EGVO decided to give it all a very wide berth.

Wise man :ok:

fantaman

27th May 2007, 21:15

For those of you that missed it. I've managed to find a clip from the "hollywood blockbuster" that made up about a quarter of the film.

Its :mad:, dont say I didn't warn you :ok:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdcybHrBmPE

Talking Radalt

27th May 2007, 21:29

Ol' Jervis wants to watch his copyright infringement......:rolleyes:
I spotted some spookily similar camera angles, effects and storyboarding...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJtcdmHMHs4&mode=related&search=

Pontius Navigator

27th May 2007, 21:29

A few helicopters would not have gone amiss due to the close proximity of Benson and Odiham

Helicopters present a media delemma. On the one hand they are in the news and doing a first rate job and would make a good connection with the role of the RAF, but we don't have enough.

On the other, if we don't have enough, or our troops need them urgently, how can we spare them for air displays?

There is a similar problem with low flying. Why are they low flying in UK when they should be low flying in Afghanistan?

At least during the Falklands it sent a political message to the Argentines that we could do all our public displays at home and still fight a war 8000 miles from home.

Unfortunately that is not true now and the enemy knows it too.

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 22:47

Sirsalty,

While I agree it was brave to try something different, I am afraid I must disagree that Turner is unaccountable for the fisaco. Since Jervis had already failed the RAF previously on four seperate projects, and the SofA was his idea, then Turner's decision to go ahead, back, fund and support the event is entirely his own. How Turner could stand on Horseguards and extol the virtues of something he had never seen is beyond me. The fact he then allowed TV and web advertising to continue for things he knew did not exist and would not be part of the show makes me doubt his honesty, credibility and command of the situation.

As to the video linked from this page, it is not the SofA video, but an earlier Eurofighter promotional video. However, despite his supposed expertise in CGI and video production, Jervis's SofA drew heavily on clips taken from this video, particualrly the scenes of weapons release and SAM evasion. I wonder if BAE SYSTEMS know this and authorised it, and it beggars the question as to just what Jervis spent the RAF's, sorry, taxpayers money on, if all he did was pinch other people's action shots and film himself and Turner in a mock news studio.

What does Jervis have to do before the RAF recognise he is at best an incapable dreamer, at worst a PC spouting self-promoter with no talent or originality and a highly dubious professional record based on minority programming.

Hmmm, thats it! Minority programming! SofA! Same same!

Talking Radalt

27th May 2007, 22:58

What does Jervis have to do before the RAF recognise he is at best an incapable dreamer, at worst a PC spouting self-promoter with no talent or originality and a highly dubious professional record based on minority programming.
Hear bloody hear!
:ok::ok::ok:

fantaman

27th May 2007, 22:58

About 90% of that eurofighter video I posted were shown at the SofA. From 01:17 until the end of the film was shown on the screens. It might have been the Typhoon film from last year but Jervis made it their blockbuster for SofA.

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 23:12

Sirsalty,

I forgot to answer your other points I apologise, poor memory from old age!

I am delighted your good Lady enjoyed the "show" but I sincerely doubt she represented the target audience. My son, who is considering a service career, found the whole thing surreal and risible. My favorite quote is "Bloody hell, the new Doctor Who is more believable and better than that load of toss!" He is now considering the Army or Navy as a preferable career.

Secondly, thank you for volunteering me for the DPR, now properly called DDefPub(RAF), role, but I'm afraid I have already been there and done that as my son would say. Two points for you. Firstly, several of my inovations are still in broad use today, so I would say, yes I was pretty full of good ideas. Secondly, I never knowingly embarrassed, devalued or misrepresented the service in my period of service. I am afraid Turner, and his predecessor David Prowse, cannot say the same thing. Prowse must be held responsible for beginning the fiascos Turner brought to full horror. In fact, I think the last decent post holder was Air Commodore David Walker, what seems like many years ago.

Hope this answers your points fully.

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 23:22

fantaman

I bow to your better memory! However, were you aware the original film supplied by Jervis was less than half an hour long, having been advertised as an hour or 90 minutes of Hollywood spectacular?

It was supplied on Tuesday last week, members of the Events Team and DDefPub staff spent Wednesday in the Old War Office Building editing suite cutting pieces of old RAF promotional films into it to "pad it out" to its final 55 minutes or thereabouts. Three days before the show, no wonder the quality was so uneven.

As we have discovered most of the source material between us, don't you think it might be an idea to ask Turner and Jervis what the money was spent on? Other than interviews of themselves of course?

fantaman

27th May 2007, 23:33

WF, your quite right. I had seen most of the footage on previous occasions. The footage that Jervis did come up with was indeed very poor, with the enemy aircraft being fictional, almost space ship like.

How the paying public were meant to take this seriously I'll never know :ugh:

danohagan

27th May 2007, 23:41

The revelations keep on coming! The Oxford Mail website by the way is claiming 16,000 paying punters showed up on Saturday.

Wobbler Fang

27th May 2007, 23:43

fantaman,

I'd rather like to know what happened to the much trumpeted interactivity and audience participation that was still a feature of the Jervis and RAF websites just prior to the show, and a feature of their all of their press releases. If his project was supposed to be ready by August 06, what on earth were Jervis and DDefPub doing for the last year? And surely they knew well in advance of the show that this would not be available. Reason enough I feel to approach the Advertising Standards Commission?

danohagan

27th May 2007, 23:47

The following was published on the Oxford Mail website on the day of the show (Saturday morning) at 7am:
RAF spectacular ready for take-off
By Gordon Rogers
A STUNNING star-studded spectacular takes to the skies over Abingdon for two days this weekend, when the RAF launches the biggest aerial and ground-based event ever staged in the country.
Billed as the most spectacular air show ever". The Spirit of Adventure at Dalton Barracks - formerly RAF Abingdon - tomorrow and Sunday is described as the ultimate live action event.
It combines the best in military aviation and a host of ground-based activities, including live music, G-force rides and extreme sports.
Organisers are expecting up to 100,000 visitors over the two days. Demand for tickets was so high, the box office telephone system crashed and had to be replaced.
Apart from aerial gymnastics by the famous Red Arrows display team and the pin-point accuracy of the RAF Falcons parachutists from RAF Brize Norton, a major attraction will be the chance to take part in an interactive movie, called Battle for Britain, displayed on huge screens.
The organisers say it will be a fascinating experience, with each scene having three alternative endings which the public decide on - live via text vote or a broadband broadcast.
The plot involves UFOs and shadowy villains who want to take over the world. With the help of the public, the RAF is the first line of defence in the Battle for Britain.
Broken into six, five-minute segments, the fantasy film will feature an official RAF spokesman at each break point, and introduce live display aircraft to reinforce the video messages.
The show will move effortlessly from fiction to fact with the Red Arrows - who will unveil a new display routine, which the team has been practising in Cyprus.
Once the performance is over, crew members will be on the ground to talk to the public about their displays and the work and planning that goes on for months behind the scenes.
Squadron Leader Jas Hawker said it took seven months of training - six times a day, five days a week - to prepare the display sequence.
He said: "The display needs to look as exciting as possible, but within strict safety limits. I hope that people watching it will enjoy themselves as much as we do in the air."
The key themes of adventure, lifestyle, sport and technology will be conveyed through aircraft demonstrations and direct contact between RAF service- men and women and the public on the ground.
In addition to ground displays, fly-pasts, role demonstrations and static exhibits, the event will feature live music, extreme sports, theme park activities, competitions and many other attractions.
Apart from the Red Arrows, there will be displays by Typhoon, Tornado and Harrier attack jets, Merlin helicopters from RAF Benson, a C130 Hercules transport plane and a Second World War Spitfire fighter plane.
Some of the aircraft are based a short distance away at RAF Brize Norton and will fly to Abingdon to perform their displays.
Among the attractions down on the ground will be the JCB DieselMax car, which holds the world land speed record for a diesel-powered vehicle, set last August, of 350mph.
The car's driver, RAF Wing Commander Andy Green, who also holds the absolute land speed record of 763mph, set in the jet-powered Thrust SSC car in 1997, will be on hand to talk about his exploits.
Group Captain Andrew Turner said the Spirit of Adventure would "cut past" all previous air shows the country had seen and would place the RAF at the centre of activities.
He said: "Mixing high-quality film with flying, and blending ground demonstrations with demolitions in the movie, the event will showcase the RAF, our people and the role we deliver for the country."
For more details of the event, see www.spiritofadventure.info
From what we understand from people who went to the event, a sizeable chunk of the attractions never showed up, or were not "as advertised". As has been mentioned, Advertising Standards and Trading Standards might prick up their ears at this kind of thing.

fantaman

27th May 2007, 23:50

The thought of contacting the Advertising Standards Commission has been mentioned on another forum WB. Its a good job we didn't have the chance to interact really. £25 for a text message, £5 for a transaction fee, £3 for a booking fee and the usual network charges.

It would be interesting to see what the ASC has to say on the whole event.

Wobbler Fang

28th May 2007, 00:03

The ASC? Quite so, I shall be on to it with and old chum on Tuesday morning, I'll let you know how I get on.

The sooner these idiots are stopped, the quicker we prevent further damage to the RAF's aleady badly tarnished reputation. Sorry to all the front-liners out there, but at the moment I shall quote from the First World War, "Lions, led by Donkeys".

airborne_artist

28th May 2007, 07:40

From the Oxford Mail report:

"Tornado strike jets, a Second World War Spitfire and the new Eurofighter Typhoon jet were on display at the RAF's Spirit of Adventure airshow at Abingdon airfield on Saturday. About 16,000 people descended on the former RAF base at Dalton Barracks to see famous planes from the past and state-of-the-art superjets swoop across the airfield.
Members of the RAF's world-famous aerobatics display team, the Red Arrows, arrived by helicopter to give young and old fans a rare chance to speak to the magnificent men in their flying machines.
Later the flying aces caught a helicopter back to Brize Norton to board their planes and perform daredevil stunts (:ugh:) in the sky over Abingdon."

Look at the comments posted by the Oxford Mail (http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/headlines/display.var.1429218.0.aces_high_at_raf_spectacular.php#comme nts) readers. Seems they are not too impressed with the journo's regurgitation of the PR spin/fluff.

Eg:

"Posted by: Roy Lairforce, Oxford on 12:57am today

Your reporter should be disciplined over this. Surely the first thing a journalist learns is to check and double check any facts that are given to him? Reports across the aviation community are suggesting maxium attendance figures of 2400, with lower estimates of 1600. The losses will have to be borne by someone, and it will either be this company Jervis or the RAF (ie the taxpayer). Either way, the Mail's shoddy reporting is appalling.
Your reporter should be disciplined over this. Surely the first thing a journalist learns is to check and double check any facts that are given to him? Reports across the aviation community are suggesting maximum attendance figures of 2400, with lower estimates of 1600. The losses will have to be borne by someone, and it will either be this company Jervis or the RAF (ie the taxpayer). Either way, the Mail's shoddy reporting is appalling."

Pontius Navigator

28th May 2007, 08:05

A_A, I don't think that there will be many readers writing in to agree with Roy Lairforce.

They obviously weren't there :}

A STUNNING star-studded spectacular

the biggest aerial and ground-based event ever staged in the country.

Billed as the most spectacular air show ever".

Demand for tickets was so high, the box office telephone system crashed and had to be replaced.

Finningley used to get over 100 000 in ONE day. A show I ran had over 7 hours of activity with the runway in use every MINUTE. We use BOTH runway directions, we had a RHAG engagement and we had an unscheduled arrival and departure that we only just managed to squeeze in. We had 12 Spitfires, Lancaster, Mosquito etc etc. We also had a 6v4 F4-F2 and not ABOVE 2000 feet.

I am sure even the pre-war Hendon displays were big. They had dog fighting and bombing too.

BEagle

28th May 2007, 08:31

See http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/display.var.1429218.0.aces_high_at_raf_spectacular.php

Some pretty pi$$ed-off teddies, it seems.

Are Jervis Media going to be shown the door after this farce - or is it still intended that the Kinross 'event' will take place?

Pontius Navigator

28th May 2007, 09:14

Googling RAF Spirit of Adventure gets a first hit:

http://www.spiritofadventure.info/ which gives a full description of the event NOT

It is a simple one-page cancellation message. One of the two names quoted is an MOD PR Bod. Sue Harris may also be MOD.

And this site gives (18 May) the programme so it must be true:

http://www.airshows.org.uk/newsfiles/sofa.html

Even the Benevolunt Fund is in on it:

http://www.rafbf.org/Events/Archive/spiritofadventure.htm

Even Google gets it wrong :)

Less than an hour from London by car, RAF Spirit of Adventure is the ultimate ... RAF Spirit of Adventure will be taken forward jointly by the RAF and its ...
spiritofadventure.info.truecp.co.uk/default.aspx?id=1243 - 28k - as this takes you the the cancellation page.

I see Sue Harris (see above) even joined the Student Room to publicise the event - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391194 - 10 days in advance, I ask you. This opportunistic entry gained just 444 hits and 2 of them mine. No comments whatever.

At real air shows the basic costs are usually covered by advanced sales well before this. A bank is usually 'on board' as a point of sale. Railways and local town can put on buses and trains and park and ride.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 09:19

A chunk of humble yet tasty pie from the Oxford Mail comments webpage:
At the beginning of every May(the Early-May Bank Holiday,to be precise)there was the Abingdon Air & Country Show which for about a third the admission cost provided a far superior day out for all the family and the aviation enthusiasts.
Our early estimates are about 8000 visitors....we certainly had a fuller car-park than was seen on the airfield this past weekend.
Abingdon Air & Country Show is the ONLY aviation event to have run in Oxfordshire successfully without a gap throughout the 21st Century(and proceeds from our event go to charity....in 2000-2006 it was the Helen & Douglas House Hospices in Oxford,in 2007 it was the Thames Valley & Chiltern Air Ambulance) and thoughts are already turning towards 4th May 2008 for the next event.
To see what was at the 8th Abingdon Air & Country Show at Abingdon airfield on May 6th 2007 take a lookim at our web-site www.abingdonfayre.com

cheers
Colin Smith
Prss/PR/Sponsorship Officer
Abingdon Air & Country Show
Oxfordshire's ONLY air event to run without a gap in the 21st Century
:D:ok::D:ok::D

Pontius Navigator

28th May 2007, 09:25

TR, you need to take the RETURN out of the web address.

Oh FFS, I didn't realise TWO air shows at the SAME airfield on successive bank holidays? Who thought that one up?

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 09:44

TR, you need to take the RETURN out of the web address.

Huh? :confused:

(Edit: Oops, just spotted it, fixed now! :\)

airborne_artist

28th May 2007, 09:48

Worth bearing in mind that the Abingdon show referred to above is run entirely by volunteers. Colin Smith is a postie in Didcot. What does Jervis do for his daytime job? ;)

Man-on-the-fence

28th May 2007, 09:53

Its the Abingdon Air Show that deserves support from the MOD not this Jervis run rubbish.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 09:53

What does Jervis do for his daytime job?
From what I've found by a little Googling, he "promotes" things.....himself, mostly.
Brace yourselves folks, his contract with MOD has another eighteen months to run.:{

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 10:17

Its the Abingdon Air Show that deserves support from the MOD not this Jervis run rubbish
Interesting point there MotF.
Over on UKAR they mention the fact that it's the locally organised, locally promoted charity-benefitting volunteer run events which tradiationally seem to capture the public imagination, (Abingdon Air Fayre, Southend, Northolt Photocall Day etc) yet it is just these events which MOD is denying support to in order to keep Jervis and his dreams afloat.
The thing with the charidee fly-in style events is two fold.
Because they've evolved from community events Joe Public tends to get to hear about it far better because he has a friend of a friend who knows the organisers (and therefore also feels a little obliged to support it), or in the case of Southend, Eastbourne etc is already on a day out at the seaside and is thus quite literally a captive audience.
Second off, the RAF/MOD get double points for giving a jolly spiffing air show AND suporting local events & charities.
If it ain't broke....LEAVE IT.

danohagan

28th May 2007, 10:27

And this year's Booker Prize for fiction goes to... The Oxford Mail... http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/display.var.1429218.0.aces_high_at_raf_spectacular.php

16,000 turned up, apparently.

BEagle

28th May 2007, 10:37

Interesting that one of the stall holders said that the Sunday event was cancelled before the weather announcement was made.

More spin and lies?

Admit it. It was such a flop on Saturday that Sunday was cancelled. The poor weather is merely a handy excuse for the Ministry of Truth.

danohagan

28th May 2007, 10:42

It's been reported in this very thread that the three simulator rides were seen packing up to go to Southend on the Saturday night, which is odd.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 11:03

What's odd about Southend? It's in Essex I'll grant you but the shell suits and Citroen Saxos aside, they aren't bad people.

danohagan

28th May 2007, 11:06

Very drole. Odd, in that given that the ground attractions were already so thin, why were some of the few remaining (and advertised) attractions hitting the road with the show still having a day to run?

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 11:28

Rats...........ship..........sinking......... springs to mind, Dan.

f4aviation

28th May 2007, 11:50

Taken from the Spirit of Misadventure website this morning:

SPIRIT OF ADVENTURE - A WEEKEND OF TWO HALVES!
The inaugural Spirit of Adventure in Abingdon was a weekend of two halves as the best of British took to the skies on Saturday, the first day of the spectacle, and the skies served up the worst of British weather on Sunday.

Thousands enjoyed the unique spectacle as the stars of the show, the Royal Air Force, thrilled the crowd with stunning aerial displays by planes including Typhoon, Tornado, E3D Sentry and Hawk. The Battle For Britain interactive blockbuster proved the revelation of the event as film and live action combined to create a stunning display that left the crowd unable to tell where reality stopped and fantasy began.
The Red Arrows closed the show on Saturday performing their exciting and breathtaking new display for the first time in 2007.

Group Captain Andy Turner “I am really pleased how the event went on Saturday. From talking to members of the crowd thousands of people enjoyed themselves watching the spectacular Red Arrows in their first major show of the year. I was also very impressed with the Battle For Britain film. This was our first excursion into major film-making involving some very complex choreography of live aircraft, ground-displays and awesome pyrotechnics.”

On Sunday the British weather dealt a cruel blow with the conditions proving too inclement for the show to go ahead. Overnight very low cloud and heavy rain came into the area and the Met Office advised that this would only get worse throughout the day. If we chose to go ahead with the event and ignore the weather, the planes would have flown but the cloud would have prevented the audience from seeing the displays. After agonising deliberation the organisers concluded that the only sensible decision was to cancel the event on the Sunday.

All ticket holders for the Sunday will be entitled to a refund of the ticket face value by contacting the point of purchase. Ticket holders needing further clarification can call 07768 697069 (020 8789 6111 after Tuesday 29th May)
The organisers are now looking forward to August 25th and 26th when the Spirit of Adventure will be held at Balado Activity Centre, Kinross, Scotland.

:mad:

danohagan

28th May 2007, 11:54

That's spin that Peter Mandelson would be proud to call his own!

diginagain

28th May 2007, 11:56

..........unable to tell where reality stopped and fantasy began.

Sounds like a comment on the management.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 11:56

SPIRIT OF ADVENTURE - A WEEKEND OF TWO HALVES!

Any more than two halves and they'd be thirds, or quarters, or fifths etc.:rolleyes:
So Jervis can't do maths either? No wonder they got the crowd numbers wrong!

BEagle

28th May 2007, 11:58

"unable to tell where reality stopped and fantasy began."

It would seem that Andy Turner and Terry Jervis are the only two to whom this should apply.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Turner.jpg

Read the reviews, Turner. "thousands of people" by definition implies more than 2000, yet the most optimistic assessment is around 1600.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 12:05

And annuvver fing,
What kind of narcissistic, vain, self-deluded Walter Mitty puts themselves in a starring role of their own "blockbuster" film? I thought we had "actors" for that sort of thing? :rolleyes:

Green Flash

28th May 2007, 12:11

Balado (Balado Bridge, to give it it's full name) is just off the the M90 south of Perth. An hour, maybe 1 1/2 hours, from the main population centers. It's also the venue for T in the Park. If Jervis & Co think they can do a T then they must be in another world. Doesn't stand a hope in hell.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 12:17

Doesn't stand a hope in hell
...especially as the SoA website is now just a one page half-apology for what happned (or didn't) this weekend with no mention of further events.

airborne_artist

28th May 2007, 12:26

How about submitting an FoI request for the gate takings on the Saturday?

Green Flash

28th May 2007, 12:31

TR
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong website, but http://www.spiritofadventure.info/ says The organisers are now looking forward to August 25th and 26th when the Spirit of Adventure will be held at Balado Activity Centre, Kinross, Scotland

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 12:48

Yeah, but you can't book tickets via the site any more, can you? :=

diginagain

28th May 2007, 12:54

Perhaps the organisers should have trialled their 'Spirit of Misadventure' event at Kinross first. Then they could have ironed out any glitches before foisting it on a more receptive audience.

Green Flash

28th May 2007, 13:00

TR

True, not questioning your earlier post. Sounds like much confusion in SoA!

chinook240

28th May 2007, 14:05

Perhaps the organisers should have trialled their 'Spirit of Misadventure' event at Kinross first. Then they could have ironed out any glitches before foisting it on a more receptive audience.

Why should the Scots be a less receptive audience?

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 14:09

Why should the Scots be a less receptive audience?
A combination of deep fried Mars Bars, Special Brew and dreadful weather?

diginagain

28th May 2007, 14:47

The Kinross catchment area would be mainly Fife.

BEagle

28th May 2007, 14:51

I would imagine the Scots will be far too canny to be conned into parting with £25 per head to watch a rather poor recruiting show.......

I wonder what the static display will consist of? Just Harriers and helicopters?

chinook240

28th May 2007, 16:16

The catchment area for Abingdon would be Oxfordshire, but I'm still none the wiser at your remarks! However, Beagle is probably right.

I believe Kinross was chosen as the nearest location to Leuchars, which, if you've been to the airshow, attracts a huge audience of 30k -45k each year. That's mainly due to the fact that its the only large show north of the border, but as its not on this year, Kinross may well be better attended than Abingdon.

RETDPI

28th May 2007, 17:05

Why should people spend good money to be patronised by idiots?
The combination of a Group Captain's perceptions of what would appeal with those of an imported and unproven "minority interest" pop-video enthusiast, would surely be hardly likely to be on the same wavelength as that of the educated kids the Service would wish to attract.
Obviously, first off, a survey of a cross-section of recent succesful entrants would have been done to ascertain:
"What had the biggest influence on your decision to join the RAF?".

I do wonder what the results were?

" Protecting the U.K. from UFO's " would apparently have been high on the list, judging by the reporting on this effort......:8

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 17:30

& txt msging. Its gr8 u no.

brit bus driver

28th May 2007, 18:23

Let me get this right....had this sort of unmitigated disaster happened in civvie street, the 'PR guru' responsible would no doubt have his P45 by now, non? So, what do we give him.....a front line station. Lord knows what next year's Summer Ball will be like.....all Burberry and K-Swiss trainers, no doubt.

As it happens, I was one of the hordes parked by the side of the road. Watched the tail end of the role demo...should be just fine when it's strung together as a set piece, rather than as an adjunct to some dross on the jumbotron. Popped to Homebase for the duty bank holiday shop. Back on the verge by 1600 in time for the Red Arrows. Mini bus driver was truly agog, even though it was the flat display (I assume, considerng they went IMC half way up the opening loop?).

I was also at the Abingdon Air Fayre (bloody hell, I'm really not a spotter!) 3 weeks ago and it's a lovely little show. £8 each for Mrs Driver and I and the wee ones are free, as is the parking. Suitable number of helos plus a Dak to crawl over plus a mixed display in the afternoon. As ever, a decent recruiting team on the ground was missing, though the Army were out in force as were the RAuxAF recruiters. It strikes me that there are probably enough aircrew, plus a smattering of other trades - but let's face it, we do recruit from the top down - willing to give up one or two weekend days a year to pop along to their local airshow. In flying suit, suitably briefed and tooled up with gizzits/info they would at least give the public a focal point on the day. We are at the stage where few front line force elements can commit suitably manned statics to each and every show, but a handful of willing volunteers should not be hard to find. Throw in a free ticket for the wife and kids and I'm sure the organisers would be inundated. Still, what do I know...

R 21

28th May 2007, 19:26

BBD

Agree..... however do you not think the front line aircrew work that many weekends why would they want to waste another one at a poorly organised recruiting display??

brit bus driver

28th May 2007, 19:48

Absolutely not. But, at events such as Cosford, Kemble, RIAT, Duxford, Biggin etc etc where there will be a large public presence but limited UK mil hardware on the ground should be rich pickings. I think that the ' we don't need to engage the airshow market as they're not the target audience' argument is flawed. Spotters bring their kids. After the footie, airshows are the number 2 event for the British public. If we are not in amongst the public at these events, extoling the virtues of the RAF and our relevance, we deserve everything we get.

Talking Radalt

28th May 2007, 20:54

In flying suit, suitably briefed and tooled up with gizzits/info they would at least give the public a focal point on the day.
Ah but that's classed as "recruiting" as you're not allowed to do that unless you've done the course at Cranwell. Seriously.
It's lest some spotty oik gets to OASC, gets turned down on Day One then pipes up "But some bloke told me......"
Apparently we're all too stupid to include the caveat "...but ideally you'd need to check with your local AFCO" with the reply to any enquiries. :rolleyes:

brit bus driver

28th May 2007, 21:46

My point exactly Radalt. I was stopped in the street last summer, in uniform (blues), and was quizzed as to the virtues of joining the RAF Regiment. Obviously I said 'I'm terribly sorry, but I think you'll find there's a perfectly good AFCO in the next town where they will be able to provide you with ample literature pertaining to your chosen career aspirations'. Or maybe I gave him my opinion (well, obviously not my real opinion of the RAF Reg! :}), he left thoroughly enthused, and my olives got slightly warmer than they should have done (and no, that's not a euphemism!!). Lord knowshow I managed to provide a balanced opinion without having done the course....

Seldomfitforpurpose

28th May 2007, 21:49

For me the saddest thing is I knew the young Mr Turner as a Flt Lt and he was a thoroughly nice chap and, whilst I suspect he still is, how the heck was he mugged into his current predicament :eek:

bombedup6

28th May 2007, 23:25

I went to this Sprit of Adventure thing IN SPITE OF it being called 'Spirit of Adventure." I mean, the poster I saw showed planes and pilots and it was an RAF promotion so I thought it MUST BE some sort of air show. But if I wasn't so incredibly bright and deductive I just might have thought it had something to do with adventure training or something, and gone shopping instead.
Which, it appears, is what most of Oxfordshire did on Saturday. At least I couldn't reckon on more than 2,500 people there - if that. And most of them were at least 30 years old - apparently air show fans from the looks of their gear. Very few kids, which again wasn't surprising given the price of tickets.
I thought it must be an air show when the Typhoon did its bit, but then they put on some sort of fake race with NASCAR sort of cars. What was that about? And kite flying? And I felt sorry for all the fairground people who came with their rides and £5 beef burgers. What shops? If there was a band I didn't see it.
The heart of it really was this movie/live air/ground action, which is what I've hoped the RAF would do at air shows for years 'cos the boom! zoom! whizz! is what stirs the blood. Takes me back to At Home days with my Dad up at the camp, and why I wanted to join up. And the movie is a good idea that links up actions you can't see in front of you. (What's this 'interactive' bit then?) But who needs this Jervis bloke interviewing Andy Turner?
The film should have shown troops under attack on the ground and a FAC calling out "we need CAS NOW!" and then the GR4s would have rolled in. Crump! Boom Bang! RAF saves the day!
Anyway, that 60 minutes, whatever, was what the day was really all about - but you'd never have known it from what publicity there was. And it could have been fitted in nicely into a proper air show. Why is it not being offered for RIAT? Instead of this vague Spirit of Adventure concept it ought to have been called something like "Air strike! Come and see the RAF in action! You've seen and read what the RAF is doing overseas. Now come and see and FEEL close up what its like at an airfield at home!" "Live" bombing! Strafing runs! Aerial Dogfights! Mortars! Machine guns!
I'll guarantee if the RAF gets that message out, and beefs up the show with helos dropping off troops and door gunners blasting away at a much more visible 'enemy' , the kids will drag their parents in.
So get with it, RAF!
,

FFP

28th May 2007, 23:52

And I felt sorry for all the fairground people who came with their rides and £5 beef burgers

I feel esp sorry for the pikeys trying to rip people off with £5 burgers. My heart bleeds purple p!$$ for them :E

So take it I didn't miss much then :ok:

Pontius Navigator

29th May 2007, 07:08

I reckon what did the Air Force for me was my uncle giving me all his WW2 aircraft recce cards but also going to Hooton Park on Battle of Britain Day.

A young friend said lets go the the airfield and see the show. We go on out bikes and cycled 15 miles of so. I had no idea there was an airfield there and even less what an air show was.

When we got there there was no show but about 1200-1500 people. If you peered to the north you might just see the odd aircraft at Speke.

Anyway the RAuxAF guys there, slightly bemused, and not wanting to disappoint, laid on an air show. They had some aircraft, can't remember what, but they called in loads of RAF aircraft that were in transit from one show to another. I distinctly remember the Shackleton roaring in.

As I say, BofB Day so the whole RAF was up displaying somewhere.

Years later I remember the BofB Day in 1969. The whole 'operation' was planned down to the last minute at Bentley Priory. We took the Lancaster to Finningley, Coltishall, Gaydon, Benson and Biggin Hill. As was our want in those days we flew in local time, GKW, and all through the London Zone as priority traffic.

Five shows in one day. In those days the shows were obviously smaller, the catchment areas tighter, and peoples ability and willingness to travel much less. Would a non-air audience really travel one hour out of London to see a show? There may be 10 millions in London but out there where it is all green with wild animals - scarey.

iws

29th May 2007, 07:55

Don't forget the large Scottish airshow held by the Museum of Flight at East Fortune. This year it is being held on the 28 July. Last year it attracted several thousand spectactors and will probably eclipse Kinross.

(Strange that no-one has mentioned it yet.............)

(Mods - edited to remove commercial links - I should have read the rules!)

diginagain

29th May 2007, 08:36

Perhaps the organisers could include a crack den and White Lightning stalls to entice a few more punters into the Kinross event.

Just a thought, but if the event does go ahead, and you want to see a free flying display, with almost unlimited view of the skies over the venue, decent toilet facilities, and catering at reasonable prices, and the thought of missing the interactive film doesn't put you off, you could save a few quid by sitting in the car park at Kinross services.

If......

AerBabe

29th May 2007, 09:20

AerBabe, are you saying you all go in for free nothwithstanding the circular that said cadets would pay £10?

Also, as the cadets were clearly targeted, I wonder how many ATC cadets there are within striking distance of Abingdon? Certainly Lincolnshire was too far.

AFAIK, my ATC squadron didn't get a circular offering cut price tickets for cadets. However, that may have been due to lack of communication between staff! The only correspondence I saw was asking from Wing, asking for volunteers to help man stands.

As for how many cadets are within striking distance... Tricky one to answer. Given that most squadrons will travel for an hour(ish) and Abingdon is fairly central... 5-10,000?

PICKS135

29th May 2007, 10:17

Jervis might want to look at this.
http://www.ukar.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=1;t=32588

airborne_artist

29th May 2007, 21:05

"Air show gets a burst of flak" (http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/headlines/display.var.1433227.0.air_show_gets_a_burst_of_flak.php) from the public, reports the Oxford Mail.

"The RAF has defended its inaugural Spirit of Adventure event following criticism from visitors. The air show - designed to promote the work of the RAF - was held at Abingdon Airfield on Saturday, but Sunday's show was cancelled due to heavy rain.
It was staged by event specialists Jervis Entertainment Media and promoted and managed by London-based 3a.
Crowds of up to 100,000 had been forecast, but the actual attendance was far lower.
In a series of postings on the Oxford Mail website, some visitors said the show was "overpriced and disappointing", while others called it a "shambles.""

"RAF Group Captain Andy Turner, who was involved with setting up the event, said organisers were happy with the way it had been run by Jervis, but were disappointed at the attendance."

fantaman

29th May 2007, 21:33

Group Captain Turner said..
"I was very pleased with the event organisation, how it was set up and rolled out.

organisers were happy with the way it had been run by Jervis

This is whats getting to the majority of people and me. Why wont he just put his hands up and say sorry, we f:mad:ked up here?

Instead he signed out a shovel and started digging himself an even bigger hole. As far as the RAF losing credability, Group Captain Turner is in grave danger of losing his if he doesn't wake up and smell the coffee :*

Wobbler Fang

29th May 2007, 22:00

It seems sadly that there is no honour left in these people. Spin, spin, spin in order to keep spending taxpayers money on worthless ideas and save their own careers.

Is this a facet of modern RAF public relations? It seems the quality and capability of the directorate has suffered some serious faliures, losses and wastes of money in recent years.

I doubt the truth will ever come out about the true extent of the lunacy. If only someone had some guts and integrity.

More to the point, I wonder how the front line feel about being represented by these cretins.

Internal review board anyone? FOI that!

Green Flash

29th May 2007, 22:04

Put the money & effort into Leuchars, Waddington and RIAT & dump Jervis. However, they are probably locked down hard into an armour plated contract so Balado will probably go ahead, with predictable results. Ho hum.

SkyHawk-N

30th May 2007, 06:20

"RAF Group Captain Andy Turner, who was involved with setting up the event, said organisers were happy with the way it had been run by Jervis, but were disappointed at the attendance."

Oh, so it's the publics fault for not attending? :rolleyes:

airborne_artist

30th May 2007, 06:49

One of the comments posted in response to the Oxford Mail article above:

"The event was never billed as an airshow like Fairford or Kemble. [said the Group Captain]"

In a way he's right - it was billed as being better: "The World's Most Spectacular AIRSHOW". ;)

Read http://www.scsaracing.com/SOA.pdf - and weep....

BEagle

30th May 2007, 07:09

"The Greatest Show on Planet Earth"

Greatest Sham on Planet Earth, more like!

"RAF Aircraft performing Aerobatic displays on each day:

Typhoon (Eurofighter)
Harrier
Hawk
Tutor
Tucano
Hercules
RAFAT (Red Arrows)
Battle of Britain memorial Flight
Falcons parachute display team"

Now that would have been worth watching.......:rolleyes:

"RAF Aircraft performing role demonstrations in conjunction with the RAF movie:

Typhoons (Eurofighters)
Tornados (Fighter)
Harriers (Fighter)
Sentry (Early warning Surveillance Aircraft)
Hercules (Transport Aircraft)
Globemaster (Transport Aircraft)
VC10 Tanker (In Flight Refuelling)
Chinook Helicopters
Merlin Helicopters
Hawks (Jet Trainers)
Sea King Helicopter (Air Sea Rescue)"

A few no-shows from amongst that line up.......:hmm:

BEagle

30th May 2007, 11:59

Editorial comment in todays' Oxford Mail:

Air apathy

It is clear that organisers grossly
overestimated the level of public
interest in the RAF's Spirit of
Adventure event at Abingdon.

A crowd of 100,000 was predicted
to watch what was billed as the
"most spectacular air show ever",
but only a fraction of that figure
turned out to witness what many
described as a damp squib.

The atrocious Bank Holiday
weather no doubt was partly to
blame. High entrance charges may
also have been a factor.

The organisers, meanwhile, have
gone strangely quiet.

We hope they're busy holding a
full post mortem, ready to report
back to the scores of complainants
who have come forward since the
weekend.

There is also a full page spread on page 3 (the lady in the photograph doesn't look very happy!) and an invitation to 'Have Your Say Online Now' at www.oxfordmail.net (http://www.oxfordmail.net) .

Talking Radalt

30th May 2007, 14:34

More from Andy T reported by the Oxford Mail:
He said he had received a number of favourable comments, but admitted there was a 'long list' of things they would do differently next time.
Next time?!!! :uhoh:
"What we set out to do was to explain what the RAF does, rather than what the aircraft can do, and I think we succeeded in doing that, to those who attended.
We hunt non-existant aliens do we? :hmm:
And whoever was asking about Jaundiced Entertainment Meeja contract with MOD, it runs til Oct 08. :{

diginagain

30th May 2007, 14:42

Just noticed a quote on the RAF News website.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/index.cfm?storyid=D72D7C54-1143-EC82-2E8BD508E70E4CFC
Said RAF PR Director Group Captain Andy Turner: “The crowds were absorbed into the action playing out both on the ground and in the air above...........
So that's where they all went.

Talking Radalt

30th May 2007, 15:23

the feature film on huge screens in front of them
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/D727E61E_1143_EC82_2E771F53C7A5DAF5.jpg
Huge? That tiddly ickle screen? SoA cleary have some kind of scaling problem.
1200 people = "thousands" and that, ladies and gentlemen is a "huge" screen.
Go on, tell me it's a long way away.:hmm:

Pontius Navigator

30th May 2007, 15:24

What we set out to do was to explain what the RAF does like airshows like this?

Talking Radalt

30th May 2007, 15:33

..and annuvver fing....
On that "huge" screen, why is it showing a 1/5th scale version of the live action which can be seen for real directly behind said screen?
"I shall call him........Mini-Spirit of Adventure!"
News just in. Jervis win the contract to run the next Army v Navy game....
http://download.101com.com/pub/adtmag/Images/EmptyStadium.jpg
:E

samuraimatt

30th May 2007, 16:16

the RAF has the assets, people, technology and reach to protect Britain against sudden, powerful aggression

No it hasn't its all overseas protecting Afghanistan and Iraq.
Join the RAF "Their country needs you"

SkyHawk-N

30th May 2007, 16:29

A Very Simple Concept

It may be me but I've read it all several times now and I still don't understand :confused:

Bismark

31st May 2007, 06:58

Just noticed a quote on the RAF News website.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/index.cfm...8BD508E70E4CFC

.....but the evil Admiral Malbon had not counted on the RAF....

Isn't Admiral Malbon the Governor of Guernsey?

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/code/showfeaturesarticle.pl?ArticleID=000269

And are the DPR(RAF) now guilty of defamation of character as well as being c**p at putting on shows. I sense 2 things happening:

A libel case via Max Clifford.
Resignation of a certain Group Captain - better still send him to Odiham as OC.

Pontius Navigator

31st May 2007, 07:02

Bismark, he was, not sure if he still is. If he is he is retiring in the summer and a new Governor will be appointed by October. Very hospitable man.

Mick Strigg

31st May 2007, 07:44

As many of you know, Yeovilton have been doing the highly successful and very impressive "Junglie Assault" (now called the "Finale") as the conclusion to their Air Day for donkeys years.

Where the Navy have got this right is to have it as part of the air show, rather than it be the air show in the case of SoA.

BEagle

31st May 2007, 08:13

Yeovilton Air Shows have always been excellent.

The first one I can remember had the Avro 707C!

I remember the one when the coming-to-an-FAA-near-you-soon Scimitar and Sea Vixen were introduced to the genpub. The Scimitar made me jump out of my skin as a lad in short pants!

Years later they did a 'simulated nuclear toss' from a 'Vixen.

Simon's Circus was another favourite.

Then there was a flypast carefully timed so that the 4 x F-4s at the back overtook the Sea Vampire at the front in full a/b just as the formation got to the display line!

A pity that there is no more front line FAA fixed wing, but I'm sure that the RW displays will be just as excellent. Dobtless the FRADU Hawk/Falcon display will be as good as it was at RIAT last year?

Somehow I feel it will be a whole lot more successful than the Spirit of Adventure bolleaux!

Wader2

31st May 2007, 12:52

- The event is managed and promoted by commercial partners, who also carry financial risk. the commercial provider arranging all other aspects of ground administration (car parking, marshalling, letter collection etc). This further limits RAF liability, although as the event carries the RAF brand, there is a risk to our reputation.

Attendance on the Saturday was disappointing (circa 10,000?), perhaps partly due to the cool weather and/or ticket price (£25 ea or £60 for families – set by the promoter

Leuchars ‘At Home Day’ will not take place this year due to airfield pavement re-surfacing. Kinross was chosen to fill that void and pick up on the almost 40,000 people that attend Leuchars annually. Kinross is an excellent event site, located as it is close to the major conurbations of Glasgow and Edinburgh

WhiteOvies

31st May 2007, 15:20

As far as I can recall the Junglies display has always been a 'role demo' in every sense of the word, dropping troops and kit off, then picking them up again etc. All accompanied by a well scripted commentary and big explosions. Just what Jervis/RAF SHOULD have done. I have enjoyed several Yeovilton air days and count them as part of the reason why I joined up. However I guess I was not in the 'target' audience for these 'modern interactive' events being white, middle class and from an aviation minded family (although only forces connection being grandparents during WW2).
AFAIK no Harriers are doing airshows this year due to being busy so not sure why the launch event had a mock up and why the publicity touted a Harrier to the public? I'm not even in the RAF and I feel embarrassed! Nice to see them blame the Navy (Admiral Malbon?)although I'd be properly upset if I was the Governor of Jersey :E

Pontius Navigator

31st May 2007, 17:00

WhiteOvies, very true. I remember ground attacks with bombs going off. I think at Hendon they actually dropped the bombs but at other shows there were synchronised explosions.

I also remember the Tac landings, Landrover out, troops deployed, open order assault across the airfield, real mortar bombs being fired (inert of course), more Tac landrover with MG etc, an Opforce, then the departure. Couldn't get much more realism than that and that probably back in the 70s or 80s.

Trouble is the guys on the geasey career pole are just so young. Why I started my operational career at a local secret air base before the station commander was born!

kms901

31st May 2007, 17:16

I work in the events industry. I have looked at Jervis Entertainment Media's website, which is horrendously amateurish, and I see no experience of large scale live events.

I have worked on events for the MOD for several years, and all this is typical. Sadly the real loser is the RAF.

Pontius Navigator

31st May 2007, 17:36

kms, the strange thing is that the main RAF stations have their own highly experienced events organisers who know their local area.

At a secret airbase in Lincolnshire, with its own display teams, the key was knowing what was available on the air show market. What experienced we lacked we 'bought' in by ringing Finningley.

At the mushroom farm, same deal, only this time we 'bought' the Finningley organiser. We also bought in his organiser and ultimately the air show organiser and the deputy are actually employed full time, and paid for, by the air show.

Running a local show you have local expertise, local contacts, and you know your audience.

One year we booked a mini out of MT. Filled it with petrol and leaflets and two holding officers. Over 4 days they papered the county with posters. On checking, if we found a gap they would get a bollocking.

We ran out of posters and we found no gaps in publicity.

BEagle

31st May 2007, 17:38

Presumably, as with everything else these days, the RAF accepted the cheapest tender with no real interest in quality......

More interested in 'risk transfer' than the actual 'product' (sorry to use such w*nkwords)......

Zoom, hurtle, roar - that looks like what I want to do, I thought as a kid watching air shows.

LOTA

31st May 2007, 17:39

Diginagain wrote:

Just noticed a quote on the RAF News website.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/index.cfm...8BD508E70E4CFC
Quote:
Said RAF PR Director Group Captain Andy Turner: “The crowds were absorbed into the action playing out both on the ground and in the air above...........
So that's where they all went.

Just to point out that this not the RAF News website, which is www.rafnews.co.uk. This is from the news section of the RAF main site.

Not the biggest fan of air shows, but they do a tremendous job of 'engaging' the public. You only have to look at the crowds who do turn up at Cosford, Waddington, RIAT, Southend, Sunderland, Shoreham etc to see that they work.

Pontius Navigator

31st May 2007, 17:56

Lota, for some strange reason it has been decided that the regular air show crowd no longer need the air shows and that CAS wants to engage with those that do not normally go to air shows.

At £25 a head or £60 that's the way to do it.

Bismark

31st May 2007, 19:41

BEagle,

A pity that there is no more front line FAA fixed wing,
Last I heard 800 and 801 are still flying GR7/9s as part of the Naval Strike Wing at Cottesmore. 800 were deployed in Afghanistan until Feb this year.

i.e. the Fleet Air Arm are still very much in the fixed wing business.

britalex0601

31st May 2007, 20:30

Hey all

All the people who have been slagging off Gp Capt Turner and the people that organised SoA clearly have no idea how much work went in to it!! All you guys sitting in your arm chairs critcising the event...try getting off your asses and organising something on that scale! I doubt not one of you who has slagged it off even went to the event, yet you are more than happy to post comments on here about the organisers, whom you dont even know!!

The thing that ruined SoA was the weather, nothing more, nothing less. Had the weather been beautiful then many more people would have wanted to enjoy a day or two out, but as we all know, with weather like that, one would rather go to the cinema.

The sad thing is, had it been a huge success no one would have got credit for it, thats the way the military works! But it didnt go according to plan and now people want a head on a plate even though it was down to something out of anyones control.

Everyone, get a life! Its over now, the weather ruined it...deal with it!

Man-on-the-fence

31st May 2007, 20:35

....clearly have no idea how much work went in to it!!
yeah we do, it was self evident. Thats why it deserves slagging off

The thing that ruined SoA was the weather,

You are either delusional or in the pay of Jervis if you really believe that.

Pontius Navigator

31st May 2007, 20:46

britalex, as you clearly know the facts, just how many tickets were sold in advance compared with those sold on the day?

Attendance on the Saturday was disappointing (circa 10,000?), perhaps partly due to the cool weather and/or ticket price (£25 ea or £60 for families – set by the promoter

Are you saying the price was right?

What about advertising? Are you saying that was not a factor?

try getting off your asses and organising something on that scale

I have.

PS, what I did not do was organise a similar event at the same venue just 3 weeks apart. We were time separated by time and distance from the next big show. We reckoned our catchment was discrete with little overlap; we were wrong, we got them in from over 100 miles away.

britalex0601

31st May 2007, 21:12

It deserves slagging off because so much work went in to it...how did you figure that!?!?! Were you dropped on your head when you were a child!?

Regie Mental

31st May 2007, 21:15

So how come the old Mildenhall Air Fetes and IATs got 100,000+ even when it was dissing pown? Could it be that there was something worth seeing?

britalex0601

31st May 2007, 21:19

They were already well established...like i said guys...get over it!! Worse things are happening around the world today...put things in perspective!

Wobbler Fang

31st May 2007, 21:20

Where has this figure of 10,000 come from? I was there! 1,200 to 1,600 at an absolute maximum!

Even a member of staff admited to me that less then 4,000 tickets in toto had been sold, both in advance and on the day.

10,000? SPIN I SAY!

As to the amount of work, organising something myself and getting a life, well, the amount of work was pitiful. Wednesday spent editing the film that was supposed to be ready by August the previous year? What? Organised over 30 shows myself, so done that. Getting a life? Actually, I'd rather prefer the £500,000 had gone to reducing the queue of service personnel at the Al Udied PX buying kit they hadn't got to go into the field.

Its not the show I'm complaining about, it was terrible its true, but its the waste, the appaling representation of the service, the tarnishing of its previously enviable reputation with rubbish clothes and shows and the plain bloody lies and spin that has surrounded the PR debacle of the last two years. Failure after failure by Jervis, and his contract still unbreached....

Now those are the issues I feel need addressing. The show merely put a public face on the rot in RAF PR.

Archimedes

31st May 2007, 21:21

Alex - MotF is suggesting that the amount of work that went into the show, however many hours it took, was grossly inadequate.

As you seem to know, could you tell us in quanitifable terms (i.e. not 'lots' or 'huge amounts') how much work went into this?

Are the suggestions that the appearance of stock AHB/Typhoon publicity/RAFM film footage arose because JEM failed to complete a film of necessary length incorrect? If they are wrong, why does so much of the interactive film (or however it was billed) seem to have relied upon this material?

Why is it that those who attended the show have very little worthwhile to say about it? See the Oxford Mail and the UKAR fora for less than helpful comments?

It's all very well coming on here and alleging that people are lazy, have done nothing to organise shows of similar size, and were dropped on their heads while children, but the chances of your altering opinions with a mixture of unsupported assertion and abuse are extremely slim indeed...

britalex0601

31st May 2007, 21:27

OK...point taken, i was a little harsh! Apologies! Im not going in to this anymore...the only reason i commented in the first place is beacuse people were commenting on the characters of named individuals which is unfair and almost totally false! Im out of this one now.

Wobbler Fang

31st May 2007, 21:31

And by the way Britalex, it was not the weather that ruined SofA, Southend airshow went ahead with a full flying display on both Sunday and Monday, including a full flat show by the Reds both days.

What ruined SofA was advertising a major event, then failing to provide half the ground and air displays that had been promised in the literature prior to the show. Thats misrepresentation pure and simple, and before you ask, I am pursuing it in a legal sense.

Talking Radalt

31st May 2007, 22:56

people were commenting on the characters of named individuals which is unfair and almost totally false!
You mean Terry "Tom Cruise" Jervis isn't a deluded day dreamer full of empty promises with no track record to speak of in anything more than minority programming with the BBC, an organisation with whom he has now parted company?
Phew!

airborne_artist

1st Jun 2007, 06:36

britalex0601 wrote:

The thing that ruined SoA was the weather, nothing more, nothing less. Had the weather been beautiful ...

As far as Saturday is concerned this is total bolleaux. We live about 12m W of Abingdon. The weather was fine, with the TAF offering 10 kts from the N, and broken (about 3/8) cloud at 5,000'. No precipitation on Saturday at all.

My daughter had a very good flight with 6AEF from Benson in the mid afternoon, which is why I checked the Benson TAF before dropping her off.

I'd agree that the weather on Sunday was a show-stopper, however, had it been fine I can't see the numbers being much higher than Saturday, given the advance sales.

diginagain

1st Jun 2007, 07:06

LOTA, and anyone else I may have inadvertantly offended, my apologies. In my dotage I clearly misread the website's title. Perhaps I should have written from a website including the words 'RAF' and 'News'.

Regie Mental

1st Jun 2007, 08:45

Britalex - you only register on PPrune to mount a defence of the Abingdon debacle. You are presumably therefore neither military or aircrew but either an employee of Jervis or connected with them. To tell people on here, who regularly serve on operations, that they should get things in perspective about an event which made the RAF a laughing stock, is an insult to them and embarassing for you.

If the general view in MoD and Jervis is that it was only the weather that caused folks to stay away then I fear for the future. I dare say the RAF will now commit more assets to the Kinross event in an attempt to rescue it but the fact is the concept is wholly misconceived in the first place.

airborne_artist

1st Jun 2007, 08:51

Britalex - are you this Britalex (http://www.faceparty.com/gallery/galleries.aspx?pid=5001064) or this one (http://gayguyschat.com/profile.php?ID=11192)? If the latter I'm glad you are well-sorted in the todger dept :E

Pontius Navigator

1st Jun 2007, 09:00

Factors included ticket price, advertising, attractions other than the service stalls etc. There were lessons to be learnt and ACAS has been assured that lessons learnt will be rigorously applied.

airborne_artist

1st Jun 2007, 09:09

It also has to be realised that SoA is what the business world would call a new franchise - it often takes time to a) refine the offer and content and b) build a reputation that draws in the crowds.

My guess is that Jervis over-sold his skills, and had to promise far more than was possible to get the contract. The problem now is recovering from that position fast enough.

Pontius Navigator

1st Jun 2007, 09:29

A_A, very true. I would not be surprised if next year they moved north into the west midlands as well. Basically take the airshows to the target audience. If that was the aim this year, Kinross is possible a good venue but Abingdon would appear to have been more of a test site, a site with a known audience and track record, good access etc and therefore less risk.

While this is no doubt valid I think they must have totally overlooked the show the previous bank holiday weekend. Advertising two shows not just in the same area but at the same venue will inevitably cause confusion in the minds of the target audience.

They would have been 'aware' of the first show and the SoA adverts may simply have reinforced that awareness. I have not seen the advertising even though I have been in the area in April.

Is my supposition valid? Trial format, safe venue, wrong location and timing?

Runaway Gun

1st Jun 2007, 09:32

Advertising? I saw one poster on a bus once. No surprise that numbers were low.
Something about the world's greatest airshow, or words to that effect.

AerBabe

1st Jun 2007, 11:32

Who chose the Bank Holiday weekend at the start of half term ... when many people are away/travelling?!
The advertising I saw was one banner on a website, one TV ad that looked like it was made in the 80s, and one ad in our local paper. :suspect:

airborne_artist

1st Jun 2007, 11:44

We live 12 miles away - I saw/heard nothing about it in advance until I read the Oxford Mail piece/fluff the day before.

Wessex Boy

1st Jun 2007, 11:48

I thought about going to this, but luckily my Wife was ill so we couldn't:E

By all accounts it seems that the Passing out displays at Shawbury we did in the late '80s had better 'role demos' (abseiling and roping rock apes, pickup and deployment of USLs, etc, etc) and a more populated flying display than this did, and this was just for the benefit of the course passee's families.

I was also involved in the '88 Finningley Airshow and remembered that it was run almost like, well, um, a Military Operation!:}

(I had 15 walking cones from Swinderby and a Car park all to myself...)

Wobbler Fang

1st Jun 2007, 19:15

Pontius,

I feel your supposition about the time and place of SoA is correct, but had little bearing on its failure.

My read of the crowd reaction was disappointment with the content, the feeling they had been at worst duped and at best misled. The lack of promised features and the parody of a movie left many confused and rather angry.

I think the ticket price was another factor, many were offended at paying for what, once they were inside, was little more than overpriced small recruitment fair with little of value for the average crowd.

The majority of people I spoke to there were convinced it was a major airshow from the advertising and the websites, and would be full of unusual and interesting features. Consequently they were rather disappointed with that aspect too.

Yes, its a new franchise, but a deeply flawed one, so deeply flawed I believe it would be better to completely re-think the show rather than continue.

I only have one question still, which is who on earth was it aimed at? I still cannot quantify that, not from the show itself, its location(s) nor its advertising!

More waste at this time of overstretch and undermanning simply cannot be justified. Front line first!

PICKS135

1st Jun 2007, 22:07

Be interesting to see how many turn up for this on Sunday
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/f4phixeruk/dundeemilshow2.jpg
Notice the charge for tickets and parking - FREE

Green Flash

1st Jun 2007, 23:23

Ha! I'd like to see Jervis et al spin out of this! A FREE military show locked onto your 6. B-0ll0x-alado had better be free too, or you will see 3/5 of 5/8 of the square root of F-all. Slap bang in the middle of town, the punters can walk, get the bus, whatever. The footfall for Dundee and B-0ll0x-alado will make an interesting comparison .....

R 21

2nd Jun 2007, 00:21

Chaps, ladies
surely you all must really that it all comes down to Andy Turner not being able to charm/blag his way out of this one. He always broke/bent the rules as OC 28 relying on his charm and being a good lad to get away with it. Unfortunatley it has not worked this time and his talent has not lived up to the expectation required :=!!

buoy15

2nd Jun 2007, 16:57

I trust Benson Met are not issuing duff TAF's?
3 octas is SCT
BKN is 5-7 octas
FIH page 20 para 9:confused:

predictable

3rd Jun 2007, 14:09

It is only a military/RAF thread which would seek to defame one of its own in print. What a great organisation we are - no wonder no one wanted to come and see us at the show.

PICKS135

4th Jun 2007, 16:12

This is the way forward - free shows and all forces taking part.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/06/04/newsstory9807173t0.asp
Let the excuses fly from Jervis
How much for
the weather was better in Dundee
The local council are behind it all the way.
Its a 'Purple' show
Oh and Jervis Note what the Lord Provost said
Dundee’s lord provost John Letford officially opened the show.
He said, “This is the seventh Dundee Military Show and it’s great to see the amount of people who come and support the show and the armed forces.
“The military really get the support they deserve from the people of Dundee and Tayside. The people come out and appreciate the armed forces and at the same time enjoy a really good family day out.”

Wader2

5th Jun 2007, 12:49

A lot of hard work and planning went in to the Abingdon Show, I am told. I am also told that the Kinross one will incorporate lessons learnt. So . . .

[we hope] to secure participation for the next Spirit of Adventure event which will take place over the weekend 25/26 Aug 07 at Kinross (not Kinloss) in Southern Scotland. . . . Kinross was chosen to . . . pick up on the almost 40,000 people that attend Leuchars annually. Kinross is an excellent event site, located as it is close to the major conurbations of Glasgow and Edinburgh.

We will be rigorously addressing all the lessons learned from Abingdon in order to set ourselves up for success in Kinross. The event promoter has already agreed to reduce and simplify event ticket pricing which some saw as a barrier to entry at Abingdon.

all we require is for the attached simplified participation form . . . to identify those sqns and sections that may have exhibits, demos etc that would enhance the show. >>

So we REALLY plan ahead

airborne_artist

5th Jun 2007, 13:24

take place over the weekend 25/26 Aug 07...identify those sqns and sections that may have exhibits, demos etc that would enhance the show

Just stunning, really.

"We know that the last one was a bit crap, so we'd like to find out what you've got that would make it less crappy. It's on the August BH w/e, btw, in Jockistan, so don't tell the wife and kids you'll be away just yet"

Wader2

5th Jun 2007, 13:37

...

Just stunning, really.

"We know that the last one was a bit crap, so we'd like to find out what you've got that would make it less crappy. It's on the August BH w/e, btw, in Jockistan, so don't tell the wife and kids you'll be away just yet"

ROTFPML

I hadn't thought of that. Guess they were hoping for the same support as the Leuchars Open Day. http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/leuchars/rafleucharsairshow/index.html

I wonder why we never thought to hold our open days over a bank holiday? That way we would have 3 days work out of the guys rather than just 2. Also all the audience will be tuned in to a great holiday weekend rather than have their ordinary B&Q weekend interrupted.

Still, moving it away from the old, stale Battle of Britain based theme, well much better.

Why not got for April 1st or 2nd and combine the date all the RAF changes take place with the 26th Anniversary of the Falklands?

PICKS135

5th Jun 2007, 16:22

Bloo*y big difference between Leuchars and Balado Airfield. Leuchars has a Train station, which judging by the queues after each 'At home' day, a lot of people use. Cant see 40,000 people going by car.

Dan Gerous

5th Jun 2007, 21:13

Spirit of Adventure event which will take place over the weekend 25/26 Aug 07 at Kinross (not Kinloss) in Southern Scotland. . .

Kinross isn't in Southern Scotland, it is in Central Scotland, almost in Northern Scotland. Weekend of 25/26 isn't a Bank Holiday in Scotland, we have the first weekend in August for our Bank Holiday. The organisers want to attract the 40K who usually attend Leuchars. Sorry but there is no way you will be "engaging" me with this guff. 50K on both days, fat chance. If anyone can provide accurate on the day head counts, for both days of this "event" and it is 50K on each day, I will gladly donate the £25 entrance fee to the RAFBF, (but not the booking fee, admin and parking fees ) It goes without saying, the accurate head count must not come from any part of the Jervis/RAF PR Empire.

High_lander

5th Jun 2007, 23:27

I can imagine that many of their target audience (teenagers wondering what to do after uni/college?:confused:) will be dancing their tits off at Leeds/Reading.:}

Certainly where I will be!:ok::ok:

airborne_artist

6th Jun 2007, 06:07

Dan Gerous Weekend of 25/26 isn't a Bank Holiday in Scotland indeed, but I was referring to a circular email requesting "acts" from RAF bases across the UK, and many of those are in England, where the BH is taking place. My point was that these guys were being asked to save Jervis's and Turner's hide and in doing so give up the long w/e (or most of it).

Pontius Navigator

6th Jun 2007, 06:42

A_A, certainly most of it.

If their airfield is closed then they will have to lob in somewhere else. It's not just the 10 or so aircrew :} but fire, crash, medical, supply, eng ATC, ops, all of whom will have some presence on the ground somewhere in UK.

If the event was at an airfield and the airfield put on a bloody good aftermath party then you would get volunteers for the static and spare etc. As they is no landing area what exactly are they expecting?

Lots of cooks cooking burgers in CS95 and white hats? Lots of whatever we have spare making look like a workshop?

Boggles.

Wobbler Fang

7th Jun 2007, 01:13

I am stunned by that circular e-mail. I had no idea so little work had been done prior to the show!

This beggars a question for Turner/Wakeman/Jervis. Since this show was advertised as star studded (not one star seen) and many features such as the world speed record car and other non-RAF attractions were not there, yet Jervis and Co were paid for these, why are they asking service personnel to give up their time when Jervis should be providing all the attractions he promised for Abingdon and yet more for Kinross?

Have RAFPR been told by Jervis that none of the promised attractions are going to associate with their failure? Does the RAFPR department now have to fill in the complete blanks with whatever it can find? Is Jervis going to return the money?

On last point, since Turner admitted that the private companies involved in SoA are risk managing and therefore presumably taking any profits, is it reasonable to ask busy RAF personnel to give up their weekend to line the pockets of private companies? In fact, is it reasonable to ask the British Public to pay extortionate fees to private companies to see assets they not only paid for, but in fact own?

Pontius Navigator

7th Jun 2007, 07:08

Wobbler, you make some interesting points. Certainly when I was first told about SoA, at the end of February, there was no mention of the Contractor Link. Nor was there any mention of participation; we just assumed that it would be standard Air Force content etc but served up in a different way.

We were certainly told that there had been consternation at the Participation Committee meeting in January when the new format was unveiled. Consternation because the professional airshow organisers had already put in up to 6 months work on this years shows. (Professional as in Waddington etc).

Now if the concept was unveilled in January and the framework only alluded to in February, just how much work could be put in March and April? Notwithstanding ongoing operations there was the small matter of forward planning, leave, etc.

Pontius Navigator

7th Jun 2007, 07:45

Wobbler, giving your post a further couple of minutes thought, we started with a barnstorming session. Who knew who who could provide what? Would we have a theme? What theme? What did we need to support that theme?

Why did we need a theme? It provided a focus. It gave a reason to tell Sqn X that we needed them and where they would fit in that theme.

So far it looks like some of that happened at Abingdon. A round robin appealling for help in Scotland looks like sheer desparation. So:

How about - an Expeditionary Air Wing? Well Leuchars is the nearest lets have AOC 1 GP task OC EAW.

But there is no airfield. But the RAF still provides air services to support other services. How about a model based on Camp Bastion - no airfield there.

OK, what do we need?

Security - RAF Regt and RAF Police, STO.
Catering
Supply, Fuel
Air Support - Helos, a FARP, CAS, FAC, Ops

etc etc.

Having identified the theme and the requirments for an isolated outpost in Jockistan the rest is simple. This is part of the CAS Engagement Strategy simply task those units that can set up such a camp.

All you need now is a WO or MAcr to organise it. (I didn't say 'competent' as that goes without saying; and I mentioned MAcr TR:))

Job done.

Mr C Hinecap

7th Jun 2007, 07:51

I've just followed the link to www.spiritofadventure.info from the RAF front page. I am ashamed - a few paragraphs in a non-internet-friendly font slapped up there. There are no details for the next event - or anything to be honest. I cannot believe we are linked to such pap.

Green Flash

7th Jun 2007, 08:18

PN

Something like an MOB/FOB scenario? With a bit of foresight(:}) Balado could have been part of an 'all arms' EAW training deployment (a la Fairford) and then opened up to the public at the weekend? Bit like the public (OK, bus loads of wives & kids) visits we used to get to the Harrier field deployments at weekends? Sounds like someone got suckered by someone else promising flashing lights, bells, whistles, go-faster stripes, furry dice, etc etc. For Balado read anywhere in the central belt, in fact.

Regie Mental

7th Jun 2007, 08:38

Wobbler Fang asks whether it's fair that RAF personnel be dicked to line the pockets of a private company.

At the end of the month there will be an event at CBY to mark the end of the Jaguar in RAF service. Tickets are being sold by an aviation magazine which will make a donation to service charities (i.e. not all proceeds, just a donation). Further, spotters who have subscribed to join a special club get six hours on station escorted by service personnel (who presumably have nothing better to do). Am I alone in being uncomfotable with this? Should we in effect selling access to a station for a limited few for the profit of said magazine (which incidentally has also got it's club members on an AAR sortie)?
The only PR benefits as I see it are for the magazine.

Now don't get me wrong, I think it's great that at least something is being done to mark the demise of the Jag, it's just that just as with SoA the RAF seems to want to take the easy option of letting someone else organise it irrespective that RAF guys and gals are in effect providing free labour for private profit.

airborne_artist

7th Jun 2007, 09:04

And at the bottom of the SoA.info page you read:

DOWNLOAD ACTION MOVIES & WALLPAPER: text message RAFSHOW to shortcode Tel: 61616
Downloads cost 50p per wallpaper and ?1 for movies.

What currency is a ? ? :{

airborne_artist

7th Jun 2007, 09:17

Contrast and compare:

Yeovilton Air Day page (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.5020) with http://www.spiritofadventure.info

Which one makes the more interesting (and informative) offer?

TheSmiter

7th Jun 2007, 09:36

Hmmm a-a you pose such a difficult question :confused:

diginagain

7th Jun 2007, 09:37

Perhaps a thought should be given to tasking a more suitable organisation to run such a scheme as SoA in future.

A group with the time to spare since they don't (yet) deploy and can easily give up weekends for a worthy cause. They're representative of the target audience, and even speak the same language.

I believe that they could do a better job of producing a website, and they've years of experience at organising traffic at airshows.

Ladies and Gentlemen, time to call in the ATC Team.

cornish-stormrider

7th Jun 2007, 12:11

Chance for the Vulcan at Yeovilton???

I'm off to check with TVOC and then buy a ticketses, they stole the precious, didn't they. Flithy litlle hobbitses.

ThreadBaron

7th Jun 2007, 12:20

From the Yeovilton Air Day page

Boredom Fighter

Seems that was all that was missing from SofA .............;)

Wader2

7th Jun 2007, 12:30

I have just read through the address list of the email that was asking units to assist. It will really work: OC 3 Sqn at Wittering!

Also lots of possible aircraft don't have very long legs. As the nearest airfield is Edinburgh that will help keep the cost down. The nearest military airfield to the south is 150 nm to the south east that will be very convenient.

Were any airmen involved in planning this?

airborne_artist

7th Jun 2007, 12:42

Were any airmen involved in planning this?

Does it look like it?

Perhaps the RAF should have put the SoA requirement out to tender - I'm sure the Yeovilton Air Day team (mostly RNR IIRC) could have shown a very good track record in running popular events, and beaten Jervis on performance, and perhaps price :}

How many such events had Jervis run before he took on SoA? :ugh:

OCCWMF

7th Jun 2007, 12:57

I know several people who work in PR in London who consistently despair of the RAF's PR efforts (but actually rate the RN and the Pongos quite highly). Wonder what they'll make of this?:suspect::mad:

Wee Jock McPlop

7th Jun 2007, 17:45

If they want to base the aircraft at Edinburgh, they better start talking to Edi - both the BAA and ATC. From an ATC perspective, we've heard nothing, zilch, zip, b....... all. Would'nt want to p... on their bonfire, but if they want to base a large mix of FJs, multis, helis etc they may find space very limited. Contrary to what some people think, Edinburgh is no longer a quiet backwater and room can be very limited - particularly during the summer months and with major WIP. The noise issue will also raise its ugly head as well. But I'm sure the RAF has got this all firmly under control and is planning well ahead.....:E

WJMcP

Pontius Navigator

7th Jun 2007, 18:13

I wonder if Kevin is reading this thread?:ok:

How about the other backwaters like Machrihanish - good weather factor, losts of concrete?

Pontius Navigator

8th Jun 2007, 16:00

I see that the Typhoon is programmed for the Kinross display and BBMF will be there too with the Dakota.

G-CPTN

10th Jun 2007, 11:33

The second day of a weekend carnival has been cancelled because of concerns about public safety.
A police spokesman said 45,000 turned up to the Nigerian Carnival UK in Southwark, south London, on Saturday, far more than organisers had expected.
The carnival, in Burgess Park, had been due to continue on Sunday but a decision was made overnight to cancel.
Marshals are expected to attend the park today to tell anyone who arrives that the event has been called off.
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: "The organiser worked with the council and the police but was a victim of his own success.
"So many people turned up, far more than anyone had expected or catered for, so, reluctantly, he agreed that the only safe option was to cancel the event."
He added: "It is regrettable that this decision has had to be made but public safety remains the priority of all involved."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6738365.stm

airborne_artist

10th Jun 2007, 13:13

From the SoA web page:

...unable to tell where reality stopped and fantasy began...

Sounds just like Mr Jervis ...:E

airborne_artist

11th Jun 2007, 15:46

Report on Cosford Air Show (http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/06/11/air-show-is-soaring-success/)

"Flight Lieutenant Steve McGuckin, spokesman for the air show, said: “We estimate that around 53,000 attended the show. “It is considerably more than last year and is down to the continuous popularity of the show and the respect for the RAF.”"

Read and weep, Messrs Jervis and Turner - at the most optimistic estimates they got seven times your Abingdon crowd. At more realistic figures about they had 26 times your attendance :eek:

Pontius Navigator

11th Jun 2007, 15:56

A_A and you didn't mention only £12 for an adult and £32 for a family.

So anything about getting the price point right?

We ran an event a couple of years ago, not RAF or anything like that. We upped the price I think to £25 and had the devils own job of shifting tickets.

Last year we cut costs, cut corners and dropped the price to £20. We also had to drop numbers because of H&S. Although we cut the price and halved the numbers we actually only reduced the charity take by a third. This year same price, slightly higher numbers, no advertising and we have sold out.

No matter how good the content you have to get that price point right. With established air shows coming in at under £20 well . . .

Uncle Ginsters

11th Jun 2007, 18:17

Happen to be working in the good ol' US of A at the moment, but have followed the SoA fiasco closely.

Last weekend i happened to end up at the Tinker AFB 'Salute' - a few things that struck me (not literally :ouch: ):

1. The Cost - FREE, nada, zip!
2. The Show - no great difference really, a mix of Civ/Mil ending in the Blue Angels (not a patch on the Reds, btw, but understandable after the year they've had so far)
3. The organisation - Car parks all over the place, MT carrying people regularly from the most outlying spots.
4. The Statics - No bullsh*t H&S / spotters barriers, get people up close to the ac (and inside where possible)
5. The Traders - no carneys, just base personnel cooking and supplying drinks, with the odd, restrained, local business.
6. The Cost - FREE, nada, zip!

....and a good old helping of "God Bless America"

Of course, the general regard for the Forces is also somewhat different here - or at least the great unwashed aren't afraid to show it!

Uncle G :ok: