Air Nelson [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

smacker1900

19th Apr 2007, 10:52

Next time you are on the ramp at AA have a look at what the Mtn Air and GBA guys are doing. Air Nsn is not perfect but it beats their job.
Too Blo0dy right B0ngo, don't forget your grass roots Capt :mad: , or have you had the silver spoon your whole career? Mate I've watched those Mountain Air & GBA pilots out there in all sorts of conditions doing the hard yards while we sit there in our cosy c0ckpits w#*king on about our roster coming out 3 days late or some trivial peice of sh*t. I watch them run around like startled warthogs trying to get their flight away on time, no doubt untold amounts of pressure from management, I,ve heard our Ops people chewing them out to get off the gates. And they do everything, especially the boys from Mtn, they don't have an office crew like GBA.

I had to laugh the other week, I was on 131.00 in AA listening to one of our ops ladies getting really angry and telling a Mountain Air pilot to "communicate better with your ops people" he came back very firmly informing her " I am the ops people, and the checkin person, and the call center, and the loading boy, hostie and sometimes the engineer but right now I'm the pilot and I need a gate for a dropoff, PLEASE!

So Capt, next time your having a winge about your management, spare a thought for those poor :mad: who drive the Blue Beast (0800smokey), from the looks of things they have it a bit harder, and there management are probably bigger W#*kers.:ok:

Split Flap

19th Apr 2007, 22:15

I had to laugh the other week, I was on 131.00 in AA listening to one of our ops ladies getting really angry and telling a Mountain Air pilot to "communicate better with your ops people" he came back very firmly informing her " I am the ops people, and the checkin person, and the call center, and the loading boy, hostie and sometimes the engineer but right now I'm the pilot and I need a gate for a dropoff, PLEASE!

Oh dude that is a classic!

Captain Condom

20th Apr 2007, 08:43

Look guys, have you ever sat back and thought about why conditions at Air Nelson are as they are? They are that way because past pilots - your predecessors - have not been prepared to sit back and smugly compare how well off they are compared to smaller operators. They have fought long and hard to get the conditions you now enjoy. With the collective employment agreement coming up for negotiation, take a long hard look at your working conditions. They may be better than Mountain Air or GBA, but if Air NZ stop hiring and you are still at Air Nelson in 3 years time, will you still be happy with the duty hours you are doing, the training regime and the salary? If not, stand up and support your negotiators as they work on your behalf.
If you have any questions about how Air Nelson compares to other operators I suggest you talk to the former Air Nelson pilots who are flying overseas - that will enable you to get a better perspective on how Air Nelson compares in the GLOBAL world of aviation.
Finally, although I don't really see how personalities have any relevance to this discussion, no, I haven't had the silver spoon. Like the majority of us I paid for my licences, did the instructing, flew freight etc. However I have also worked outside aviation and also have enough contacts overseas in aviation to be able to view Air Nelson realistically. The lifestyle may be manageable whilst you are single, but once you have done a few years there, and you factor in a family and the desire for any serious lifestyle outside aviation things become somewhat less rosy.
So, as I say, do you time, enjoy the company of the other line pilots and move on. While you are there, aim to improve the terms and conditions for your successors, as your predecessors have done.

remoak

20th Apr 2007, 09:44

Yeah apparently all those years of operating into real airports lie LHR, CDG or AMS don't count when it comes to flying for Air Nelson... probably find that all those years flying jets are worth nothing either, 'cos that dash 8 is sooooo hard to fly....

Truly the most blinkered, small-minded and arrogant airline management on the planet... but that is what you get when none of your management team have flown for anybody outside of the local aero club and Air Nelson.

Split Flap

20th Apr 2007, 09:56

Nice post Capt Condom, and very true, make sure the negotiators get lots of support at fight time, opps um I mean negotiation time.

smacker1900

20th Apr 2007, 21:47

Capt C0ndom,

I agree !

pakeha-boy

20th Apr 2007, 22:36

Quote Capt Condom..........They are that way because past pilots - your predecessors - have not been prepared to sit back and smugly compare how well off they are compared to smaller operators. They have fought long and hard to get the conditions you now enjoy.

Well said mate...a very refreshing post!!!!!!!

Lo-Bank

20th Apr 2007, 23:02

When is the promised Q400 arriving?

fly real fast

21st Apr 2007, 20:04

Lo Bank:

JH is dreaming if he thinks Air Nelson is going to get the dash 8-400. No doubt he will dangle that carrot in front of everyones noses come negotiation time.

Anyone heard of the proposed strike by the engineers and crew controllers starting early May? I hope the pilot fraternity get in behind and support them.:ok:

Artificial Horizon

21st Apr 2007, 21:49

Having flown well over 1000 hours on the Q400, I can confirm that compared to the Q300 it is a pig to fly!!:}

Cryten

22nd Apr 2007, 10:55

Shagtastic and Remoak have hit the nail on the head. Air Nelson is still run by the old boys instructor network. If you didn't do your instructor rating, and then spend the next two years growing more disillusioned and fed up with aviation (while working a job or two that actually paid you enough to live on), then you have no hope with them.

Shame really, it'd be nice to get back to Ol' NZ, but there are far too many bitter instructors infesting the ranks. Perhaps there should be an annual cull - like the easter bunny shoot, just to thin out their numbers a bit ;)

haughtney1

22nd Apr 2007, 10:57

Shame really, it'd be nice to get back to Ol' NZ, but there are far too many bitter instructors infesting the ranks. Perhaps there should be an annual cull - like the easter bunny shoot, just to thin out their numbers a bit

Utterly superb observation....:E :ok:

remoak

22nd Apr 2007, 13:27

I was actually told by the then chief pilot at Air Nelson, that the "50 hrs recent NZ IF" requirement was deliberately designed to eliminate returning expats, who were viewed as "queue jumpers" for committing the sin of broadening their horizons overseas. One can only assume that the rule was invented by bitter ex-instructors who did not have that opportunity, but who spent many years instructing before eventually brown-nosing enough Air Nelson managers to get their first real job.

You have to wonder at the sheer ignorance of any manager that can seriously believe that NZ airspace is in any way hard or busy... it is amongst the easiest and quietest in the world. It is certainly child's play compared to Europe.

pakeha-boy

22nd Apr 2007, 15:33

remoak....mate ,it was never always like that/......during the days of "she,ll be right" there were some bloody good blokes there....

most of these (current)blokes were still in there dads bags when I had my crack at it......and "any" experience,from anywhere was the order of the day.....and there were dutch and poms ruling the ranks......we are our own worst w@nkers

Cloud Cutter

22nd Apr 2007, 17:52

Hey I've got an idea, all you expats should band together and create your own NZ airline :}

On the plus side, big bro seems to have no problem taking expats. The next interview rounds are aparently full of them. I think Mount Cook are pretty reasonable too.

haughtney1

22nd Apr 2007, 18:06

Fullas and fullesses..welcome aboard wherethefukarewe airways....we apologize for the late departure..but the captain got caught in immigration on his way to the aircraft...apparently his NZ passport has expired:}

Cloud Cutter

23rd Apr 2007, 00:16

There ya go, with a catchy name like that you're already half way there :ok:

pakeha-boy

23rd Apr 2007, 06:22

Cloud mate!!...would like to know the numbers that "Big Bro" are talking about....I have hammered on their door on several occasions and have recently been sent the "update your CV "e-mail/letter.........but I just cant chuck away what I have now to go back to the bottom.....

..it would seem to me that these ex-pats are/would probably be on the bottom of their current employers seniority lists and the move is sideways?????maybe,maybe not....the desire to get back to kiwi,the lifestyle,pig hunting....plenty of other reasons for sure

Based upon Big Bro,s current treatment of its pilots ,their contracts etc,....its not the creme del la creme of airline conditions/contracts.....not saying its dire straits,but not lucrative.....dunno...would be interested to hear....

Cryten

23rd Apr 2007, 06:50

No one goes back to NZ as a career move, surely. You go back there for the lifestyle, and to be back among you family and friends.

In the rest of the world..... beter pay, better conditions, better and faster advancement, better AC......

Why was I thinking NZ again? I can always make more friends.....

Cloud Cutter

23rd Apr 2007, 07:16

PB, not too sure of numbers sorry mate, maybe someone else can help.
I can see your dilemma, would be tough going from a good jet command to starting at the bottom of the heap. Not sure what I'd do?

There are airlines in NZ that will look at direct entry jet commands. PM me if you want details. Unfortunately none that fly A320s, and you'd have to shell out for a type rating if you need one. Again, not the most lucritive of contracts, but I guess that's the price you pay for living in good old kiwi.

remoak

23rd Apr 2007, 12:09

big bro seems to have no problem taking expats

See, there's your problem right there. We aren't expats when we are in NZ, that title only applies when we are overseas. We are just Kiwis, no different to any other Kiwis (you would think...)

haughtney1

23rd Apr 2007, 13:04

I still own 3 houses in Auck...so does that make me an expat when I visit?:E

ok ok, I own one..and the other two have mortgages attached, so I suppose TECHNICALLY the bank owns them

pakeha-boy

23rd Apr 2007, 13:21

remoak.....maaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.!!!very true indeed...only problem is you and I have been listed as ......"****estirreres"and trouble-makers and are therefore exempt from employment.....:{

remoak

23rd Apr 2007, 15:04

Yeah PB... but the thing is, to be perfectly Francis about it, I wouldn't want to work for such a pack of amateurs anyway. Call me Mr Picky... but once you have worked for a real airline, it's hard to go back to the aero club mentality and all the brown-nosing and all the other crap. Add to that the number of years they are behind the rest of the world in terms of training and so forth, and I would find it too frustrating - I'm sure that you would too, and Haughtney.

That's the problem with working overseas, it opens your eyes to better ways of doing things, higher standards, etc. Makes it hard to go back.

Cloud Cutter

23rd Apr 2007, 17:54

remoak

I've always wondered what makes these NZ airlines such a pack of amatuers? I've got no overseas experience so nothing to compair to. Can you give some examples or more info? Just out of curiousity, want to know what I'm missing:}

fly real fast

23rd Apr 2007, 19:51

remoak,

How long did you work for this "amatuer" airline?

haughtney1

23rd Apr 2007, 21:55

Come on guys, remoak is only putting into words what most of us who have done a bit already know.

The NZ aviation industry by its very nature is a small and rather isolated community, it has its quirks, its good points and its faults.
It is also unfortunately populated by a group of regional operators who have over the years sought to re-invent the wheel, as a direct result of their isolation.

A quick search of some of the threads on here (the eagle one being just the latest) will reveal how certain attitudes seem to pervade amongst certain influential individuals within this sector....thats what remoak is alluding too.

I am certain that the vast majority of guys working for the NSN, EAG, COOK are good buggers...but there are still the frustrated few who have ambitions and opinions beyond their experience....these guys add the amateurish element to their employers IMHO.

phantom menace

23rd Apr 2007, 23:16

Interesting thread and one I can relate to. I spent 15 yrs O/seas and came back last yr with a view of getting back into NZ aviation, how wrong, all the attitudes previously mentioned are prevalent and alive and well in most, but not all NZ airlines.

Cloud Cutter

24th Apr 2007, 03:39

H1, I can see where you're coming from. Again, I don't have the experience to comment.

remoak

24th Apr 2007, 04:20

Cloud Cutter

Well to give you some idea of the differences...

What was the length and content of the multi-crew specific course that you completed prior to your type-specific training?

I'm guessing... you never got any.

What was the content of your CRM-specific training before the issue of your type rating, and how frequently is that training refreshed and examined?

I'm guessing... none and never.

When doing your six-monthly check, to what extent are you allowed to manage the flight with the autopilot?

I'm guessing... never.

MCC and CRM have been mandated in Europe for years, to address serious training issues and safety concerns. CRM is a pass/fail item in the recurrent check (ie you can fail the whole check if your CRM sucks).

The JAA LPC/OPC (recurrent) check has permitted the use of the autopilot during some phases of the check for years, because they realised that the recuurent check is not a chop ride but a training opportunity. The ability to manage your cockpit and use every resource is more important than proving your manhood by trying to hand-fly while reading plates etc.

I could go on, but hopefully the point is made. If more NZ third-level pilot managers had flown outside NZ, they would have been exposed to far better check and training techniques, far more advanced philosophies of flight deck management, etc. Instead, you see the same mentality that you see in some aero clubs, where the ego of the instructor is the dominant feature.

So, what makes some NZ airlines "amateur" is their refusal to move with the times and embrace new techniques and methods, partly because the Euro-style philosophy removes the percieved "power" of many check and training guys.

What makes then really amateur is the "50 hours recent NZ IF" type of thing, which is simply petty and vindictive - that sort of nonsense has no place in a modern airline.

fly real fast

I have never worked for Air Nelson, and withdrew my application years ago. I had an offer from Origin, and another from Ansett NZ, but didn't take either of them up as I was jet training captain at the time and didn't want to go back to being a junior F/O. My choice and I'm completely comfortable with it.

Ansett might have been fun, though.

NoseGear

24th Apr 2007, 05:01

remoak (MOR) am I close?:E :ok: I have worked for Air Nelson in the past, within the last 4 years, and I now work for Cathay. First, can you elaborate on the multi crew course? My understanding is that there is a JAA requirement for such a course to be completed prior to any type rating requiring 2 pilots. It also my understanding from talking to guys from my current airline that it is a waste of time and a tick the box excercise, jugded perhaps by the fact that 200 hour pilots are doing the course without any job in sight. Your quite correct in stating that there is no such course at Air Nelson, and neither is there one here at Cathay. CRM is quite another matter however, and it is basically the same here as at Air Nelson, you get a 2 day initial course, which is followed by a refresher every year.
During the 6 monthly check, the autopilot is used to whatever extent you feel is appropriate, notwithstanding the CAD requirement here for several handflown excercises, namely V1 cuts handflown to cleanup and from a rusty memory, at Air Nelson an engine failure at rotation which is to be handflown around the circuit to a landing. All other excercises could be flown and managed through the use of the autopilot.
Also, most of the managers at Air Nelson are not from Aeroclub backgrounds, so your wide of your mark with that shot, and I certainly never came across any "power trippers" at Air Nelson, with the exception of one or two right plonker F/Os, and most of the boys know who they are! The training programme was thorough and comprehensive spread over 75 sectors and covering technical and performance specific subjects. I myself found the training to be excellent, and I have several other jobs to compare it too.
I can't comment on the 50 hours recent NZ IFR time, I didn't see that when I applied years ago, but I agree, its a bit silly if it is used to knock back returning expats. BUT....knowing the company, it is most likely directed at the other end of the scale, the low time new joiners, to ensure they are reasonably current, as it is not the job of Air Nelson to get them up to speed on IFR as just flying the aircraft when you are new is enough of a challenge let alone trying to remember how to operate IFR. There is enough going on without the need to add in basic IFR instruction.
Why not give them a try? I'm sure you would look maaahvelous in Prison Officer Green!!:E :p :} :eek:

Nosey

Cloud Cutter

24th Apr 2007, 06:14

Thanks to both of you, good arguments on either side (when I look through my bitterness filtering lenses).

remoak

CRM is seen as an very important development area, particularly in smaller airlines, and most have (or are developing) specific training programs. It is certainly a pass/fail item on all of our checks (as some have unfortunately discovered). Of course, the check captain's understanding of what constitutes good CRM is another issue.

I agree to some extent with your comments on cockpit management, and we are (slowly) moving toward a focus on utilising and managing all available resources, rather than the one man band approach that has been prevalent in the past. It is definitely not encouraged practice to hand-fly, while briefing anything these days.

NZ has always been a bit behind the rest of the developed world in most areas, but we are at least moving in the right direction. I think you'll find much has changed since you last had a good look at the NZ airline scene.

*prepairing to get shot down again*

remoak

24th Apr 2007, 06:19

The MCC course is what you make it. Many people see it as a box-ticking exercise, however airline training departments recognise the value and encourage prospective new hires to take full advantage of it. Our training department chopped about 10% of new hires, simply because they couldn't get to grips with multi-crew ops in the allotted time. Most of those guys would have got through if they had paid attention during their MCC.

CRM, well it all depends on the content of that training and the content of the refresher. Does Air Nelson do a full day per year, or is it a couple of hours tacked on to something else? And I'm pretty sure that CRM is not directly assessable during checks.

My initial CRM course was 4 days with a six-monthly refresher.

The rest of your experience, well fair enough, but it doesn't agree with what a lot of other Air Nelson pilots have told me. I knew a few of their trainers, as they were ten years ago, and they were pretty much all a-holes. Maybe they left.

50 hours recent NZ IF... well if you were right, they would just say "50 hours recent IF", where you did it would be irrelevant. The fact that it mmust be "NZ" IF time tells you what the real intent is.

Why not give them a try? Because I don't want to start at the bottom again. I've been a small T/P F/O, did my time, don't want to repeat the exercise and become poor in the process!

fly real fast

24th Apr 2007, 06:33

I met a few of their trainers, as they were ten years ago, and they were pretty much all a-holes
Nice....:ugh:

NoseGear

24th Apr 2007, 07:49

Sorry remoak, off target again. 2 day initial followed by a day long refresher, assesable in the sim. Not a few hours tacked onto anything. 4 days? Bet a load of piss was sunk over that course.
I would hazard a guess that most of your new hires have on the order of 250 hours, so just flying a small plane is still a bit challenging, let alone in a crew enviroment in a jet. Paying attention in their MCC course probably has nothing to do with it.
If your still bitter after 10 years mate, your holding on too tight.
NZ IF time, its just for the newbies, stop being paranoid.
Your constant bashing of NZ and its aviation system based on your non existent experience in it is getting a bit old. Much like your outdated (10years ago) view on Air Nelson. And yes, I have flown into all those airports you bang on about, and yes, its busy, but they radar vector you practically to your gate, so unless your radio work is crap, then its not that hard.
Maybe those "Aeroclub" managers can see your inflated ego a mile off and would rather not enjoy the bounty of your vast experience.:yuk:
Nosey

Waka Rider

24th Apr 2007, 07:56

Personally like the idea of going back home to live rather than fly. Reckon Air Nelson would be the best operation to go too because I would want to live in TG or NR. I like the Dash 8 it was my first turbo prop and I enjoyed flying it. Understand that if I pass the interview selection procedure I'll be an F/O and go with the flow because its about being home with family, pig hunting and being able to see proper rugby games on tv and have bbq's in sunshine not f:mad: king snow etc. If you don't agree with management stuff just be pleased to be able to be at home. My guess the stress and hassles many people may have with regional carriers are that they are wishing to move on and up the greasy pole. Good luck to you with it but just remember it may not be what your after. Tonight I'm off to Kuwait and will be awake alnight getting there. Thats generally the hassle with long haul. That is why Air Nelson is so appealing.

remoak

24th Apr 2007, 08:12

Cloud Cutter

Not trying to shoot anybody down, don't get that idea. Simply conveying a different viewpoint!

It is certainly a pass/fail item on all of our checks (as some have unfortunately discovered). Of course, the check captain's understanding of what constitutes good CRM is another issue.

Well, how can it be a pass/fail item if you have no standard assessment criteria? If one check captain has his or her own particular view of what CRM is and how it should be assessed, you have a serious standardisation issue. That is just about as bad as having no CRM training at all... it has to be evenly taught and applied.

As you put it, "the one man band approach that has been prevalent in the past" has persisted 20 years after Euro airlines saw the light, and changed. Maybe it is getting better now, but only because the airlines have been dragged locking and screaming into the 21st century (mainly by the demands of the increasingly weird CAA and fear of litigation).

My last look at the aviation scene was last year, and I agree that change is (finally) taking place, but only when the airlines are forced to change, and then reluctantly.

BTW you may have noticed that it isn't just me that holds these opinions...

nosegear

In order to be bitter, I would need to have either worked for them, or want to work for them. Neither is true.

I would hazard a guess that most of your new hires have on the order of 250 hours, so just flying a small plane is still a bit challenging, let alone in a crew enviroment in a jet. Paying attention in their MCC course probably has nothing to do with it.

And you would be completely wrong. Most of the failures had 1500 - 2000 hours of GA experience, all single crew, and they simply couldn't adjust. Most of them did as you suggested on their MCC course - sank piss - to further demonstrate their professionalism. The problem was that, not only did they fail their type rating courses, they couldn't understand why.

While I was in the training department, we took about 20 cadets with 250 hours, directly into the right seat of the 146. Not ONE of them failed.

NZ IF time, its just for the newbies, stop being paranoid.

Complete nonsense. If it was just meant for noobs, it would not specify "NZ" IF time. IF time is IF time, NZ is PANS OPS II and ICAO, there is virtually no real difference between IF here or IF anywhere in Europe, other than a few local procedures. It is designed to weed out the returning Kiwis and foreigners. More to the point, as I have already said, the Chief Pilot at the time the rule came in TOLD me it was invented for that reason.

The rest of your post, well, if BS were gold... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Captain Condom

24th Apr 2007, 08:51

Nosegear - Could you remind me again of ANYONE in the entire flight operations department, including training, who have overseas airline experience? I think you will find that they ALL fall into one of three categories - ex instructors, ex Safe Air or ex airforce (many non pilots). They are in those positions because they have hung around long enough at Air Nelson and greased up the right people.
Could you remind me again of any F/Os who have joined with previous overseas jet experience? The flight operations department will not hire anyone with experience that may threaten their position, and the 50 hour recent NZ I/F experience is used to support this. From the postings here it would seem that there plenty of people overseas who would like to return to NZ for the lifestyle but Air Nelson for some reason doesn't seem interested in them?
As far as CRM being assessable in the sim - you're having a laugh surely? You've only got to look at the way some of the senior training staff operate on line, particularly when incidents have actually occurred, to realise that CRM hasn't reached their plane of existence.
I myself found the training to be excellent, and I have several other jobs to compare it too
Naturally the jobs you are comparing Air Nelson with have been with other airlines of a similar or larger size, not the small operators that we all have worked for in NZ before joining Air Nelson, or is Cathay in fact the only other large operator you have worked for?

NoseGear

24th Apr 2007, 12:09

Captain, please remind me where I said that anyone there had overseas airline experience? And what benefits do you see that would bring if they did? What if that experience was from such august operators as say Ryanair?
As for returning expats, there was a 777 emirates captain, a bizjet captain that I flew with, and another bloke, (cant remember his airline), not to mention a guy from El Al who had left NS and was coming back. This was in the last 6 or so years, so recent history doesn't support your argument. I can't speak for the other posters, but I really don't think there are many who would be completely serious, yet, about returning home for the lifestyle. Do YOU have any proof that the "50 hour rule" is used to support this? As I said, I don't believe it, but I would be very disappointed if it was.
And just so you know, I didn't go straight from Air Nelson to Cathay, so yes, I do have other jobs and experiences to compare.
remoak, if you say your not bitter then who am I to say otherwise, however, it does appear that you have a more than a little...lets say, passion, for the argument when it comes to NZ and aviation. I'm certain your 146 job lined your pockets, you could afford to fly a T/P again, nes pas?:E

terronnd

25th Apr 2007, 10:27

Worked there 3.5 years after returning from overseas.

Best training I've ever had, anywhere.

All airlines have thier % of tossers, even kiwis overseas.

I'd be happy to go back there if I had to.

haughtney1

25th Apr 2007, 10:31

What if that experience was from such august operators as say Ryanair?

Nose, despite what people think....the RYR offer superb training, in fact, its as good as ANYWHERE in the world for the 737NG:=
Employment conditions, T&C's, and overall company culture are a different matter........but as far as training is concerned, they have some very very competent and mature systems.

NoseGear

25th Apr 2007, 12:05

H1, yeah, I should think your right with the number of low time guys in there. I was meaning more the T & C side of things, but in hindsight, your quite right, different kettle of fish from training.

remoak, your final statement re: my post being Gold BS, I have at least worked there and know from the inside, not throwing about 10 year old opinions. I agree with you that the NZ rule, if true, is stupid, however, I just don't think its true, Captain Condom can perhaps clarify that.

H1, is our mutual mate from TGA in HK with KA yet?:ok:

Nosey

remoak

25th Apr 2007, 14:12

nosegear

You apparently worked there some time ago. I know several pilots who are working there right now, and their feedback is what I am largely basing my comments on. They certainly do not share your opinions. My own involvement with Air Nelson goes back to the days of Mot Air, when Inglis had an office in the back of the Motueka Aero Club and an Aztec parked out the front.

I find your comment regarding the NZ IF rule - "if true" - insulting and funny at the same time. Several of us know it is true because we have been told so by Air Nelson managers. It is a fact, so get used to it. It may not be trotted out to every applicant, but it is certainly used quite frequently. As far as there being other expat types in Air Nelson, I am sure that there are... however, I am also sure that they are there because of the standard maxim of NZ aviation... it isn't what you know, it's who you know. The old boys network and so on... open your eyes a bit. It is just another piece of evidence of the amateur management at Air Nelson, using methods that are now illegal in Europe.

Yes, it is true to say that I exhibit some passion when discussing NZ aviation. It's because my eyes have been opened. Once I worked overseas, I realised how crap many aspects of NZ aviation are, from the pathetic regulatory environment, to the incestuous employers, to the double standards and cronyism that pervade the industry. It doesn't affect me, as I have chosen a different path, but it does affect the many young guys I know who are trying to get their careers going. They are all disadvantaged by the nonsense desribed above.

But, hey, if you are happy with it all, great. Enjoy your 20 yrs as a 2nd officer at Cathay... but don't try and come home, you will need 50 hours recent NZ IF to get a job with your old employer (depending on your brown-nosing ability).:ugh::ugh::ugh:

always inverted

29th Apr 2007, 08:12

Nice posting boys, it's good to read that Eagle is not the only one in the Link network that gets a slagging. I work for eagle at the moment and was concidering the jump to the dash if the chance came up but I had no Idea that the guys and girls on the dash work so hard. Sure we stand in the rain a bit and dont have a hostie but by the sound of it, we dont work nearly as much as NSN drivers, so a bit of water here and there aint that bad.
What are the rostered shifts like each day (ex aa) and time off. Just out of curiosity, how does the dash handle the ice.

Swamp Donkey

29th Apr 2007, 20:41

Always Inverted,

There is only one person slagging Air Nelson in this post - his/hers/its remarks are so far off the mark that they are not worth replying to.

Yeah - there have been some busy months of work while the transition to the Dash is made - a couple more Saabs got pulled last Friday so things are beginning to ease a little.

The DHC8 handles the icing a lot better than the SF340.....generally the DHC8 is a nice machine to fly......but my comments are based upon limited experince of 2 turbine types......

Swampa

Swamp Donkey

29th Apr 2007, 20:49

AI,

Sorry in answer to your question re shifts:-

Generally good there is only one duty that is tiresome as it finishes at 430pm - just in time for the AA traffic. Most duties are either an AM or PM. Mostly a 4 sector day with a short break.....with the third DHC8 now based in AA there is more variation with the destinations during the week now....

kev2002

30th Apr 2007, 06:26

Any calls been made yet??

Bongo Bus Driver

1st May 2007, 02:43

AI

Are you on drugs? Who in their right mind would want to stay in GA and not step up to an airline. However if you do like Eagle so much then please stay there. It will give some of those interviewees who your trainers recently trashed an opportunity.

mattyj

2nd May 2007, 03:11

Yo Waka rider..come back buddy..all the boys in the regionals could use someone rich to shout them drinks..Lion Nathan is increasing prices across their range which constitutes a major crisis in NZ GA..

..as to the rugby..I have watched a few super 14 games this season and I can tell you there aint no good rugby being played round here at the moment

pakeha-boy

2nd May 2007, 05:35

Bottom line boys....Beggars cant be choosers and all,(including myself,,..a whore at heart) have succumbed to the evils of taking a ****ty job with ****ty pay with ****ty managers with ****ty pay and conditions....its just plain ****ty for sure:ouch:

I agree with most sides here as the postings are relevant to where "one" is now and currently employed,or have been(ay remork)I have seen the negative kiwi side and the positive,I seen the backward and the forward types who make flying in kiwi a pure joy......

....in the end its all about choices(although limited in kiwi)...you either accept the situation or bugger off(not saying it should be that way or acceptable) but it is what it is,

For those of us with a "wider" experience base,I can understand the resentment from the younger blokes(or ones that have stayed) about the criticism,s the have to listen to or have shoved down their throats because of the their limited access to other employment avenues....but Ive been there,done that and been my own worst decision maker.....its worked out for sure....but not without a lot of skull-duggery and "other-things":}

one thing is for sure...just like the kiwi OE...(which we all must do)....there is also the kiwi aviation OE....and for sure it will open your eyes and give you a different perspective.....that is also your choice

matty....you have a flying job yet?????

Waka mate....pig hunting in Kuwait ay???.... you bloody beauty!!!!send photos of those piggys..........