The Official SAA Bas, er, DISCUSSION thread

[JG1]

"JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - The head of state-owned South African Airways said on Tuesday that he wants to break up the company and slash costs to help return it to profit, and may then sell some units.

Chief Executive Khaya Ngqula told a news briefing the airline would announce a restructuring plan in April, after sliding to a loss this financial year.

He said the company expects to lose more than 650 million rand in the year to end March.

The company, which said it spent more than 20 billion rand a year on staff perks and other discretionary items, said it would look at ways of cutting costs to help return it to profit.

Word is that SAA is to retrench 3000 staff, including pilots, because COSATU refuses to entertain the notion of job losses unless in ALL departments.

The Congress of South Africa Trade Unions (Cosatu) has been vehemently opposed to any job losses at the air carrier. “There is no excuse for a major public enterprise to sack such a large number of workers and add to the job-loss bloodbath,” said Cosatu last year when SAA first mentioned potential retrenchments.

The R20 billion on staff perks is interesting.... the R4bn Khaya is begging from the taxpayer is 20% of the perks fund!

[Springbok 495]

How can they fire pilots if they apparently have a pilot shortage?! This is just mind boggeling stuff I must admit....

Feel sorry for the crew that has to loose theire jobs though, never a very pleasant experience.

:hmm:

[TooBadSoSad]

This thread posted by the official Pprune African Aviation idio...., er, trouble mak.... er, dim wi......., er, somebody help me with this....................;)

[TooBadSoSad]

And no pilots will lose their jobs! Not even a remote possibility!

[dikkes]

JG1, what is wrong with you? You seem to have a serious axe to grind. Has someone taken your sweets away or are you just troubled?

[Deskjocky]

I’m amazed how small minded some folk are- any chance they can to stick the knife in...

If one has a look at the effectiveness of ALL of South Africa’s airlines- bar none- all come up short to a greater or lesser degree in certain critical areas. Poor management decision making is not the preserve of SAA (undeniably it seems to have become endemic) but its visited upon all of the local carriers. What has kept some of these decisions from dropping these airlines into the brown stuff is SAA’s ineffectiveness to do things consistently right.

So a comment to some of the more vociferous posters: be greatful that SAA is not at the top of its game at the moment, because if it were then there would be a lot fewer jobs going at the other airlines!

[square leg]

JG1

Are you talking about black bass or small mouthed bass or perhaps even guitars?:zzz:

I'm sure you'll get the drift.

[journeyman]

DJ,
Unfortunately, the 'certain critical area' that SAA comes up short in time and again is the Making-A-Profit-Area. It's a tad inconvenient for the people that have to foot the bill. Again.

Having said that, I for one would not - under any circumstances - want to see the demise/downsizing of Africa's best carrier: that would mean a bunch of guys pitching up on my company's doorstep wanting a job. And that, for a variety of reasons, would be very bad news.

So please, make an effort - stay afloat and prosper. Hire a multitude of pilots and renegotiate for even more outrageous increases. Because whether or not some people would agree, we are all in this together.

[beechbum]

Jg1,
Is this meant to read the SAA bash/basher thread?.....nothing else better to do I guess!
Small things amuse small minds!!!!!!!!!:ugh: :ugh:

[Frogman1484]

Why do you guys get sucked in to this by this looser ...just ignore his threads and he will crawl back to his low paid sad job.

[DIVESAILFLY]

I wonder how many airlines would survive if all pilots had to have "consultants" (ok captains that does not mean your co-pilots/P3) telling them how to do their jobs. SAA's "boss", the intrepid idiot Khaya (he of "running an airline is like running a fish and chips shop" fame) has had a consultant advising him from the day he started and yet he and his management staff are totally incompetent despite the help they receive. So yeah, I support cuts in staff if they begin at the top with the incompetents serving there.
Fly safe.

[JG1]

Toobadsosad you were the one who suggested starting this thread!!

No digs intended at all, ok perhaps a tongue in cheek title....but at least the title is loose enough to allow discussion without every thread-sheperd moaning that posts aren't on topic.

I've got no axe to grind - although I don't live in SA at the moment I have property there and pay tax there - hey - legit discussion about where and how the money I and others pay is being spent.

Seems like it's a bit of a sore point, no? :p

[Avi8tor]

I hate mentioning names here. But watch it frogman and beechbum, he pays ur salary. So dont get personal. As the only shareholders in your bankrupt airline, the tax payer have every right to call for changes.

And please, no childish chirps about being jealous. That's playground level stuff. Only reason SAA exists is cause the rest of us make profits and pay tax. I am sure RF, Novick, Bricknell and co would also pay silly money if they got a HUGE government handout every year.

I have said it before, SAA no better than Air Zim/Air Bots/Air Malawi. A state controlled loss making airline in a developing country.

This is NOT about bashing the people at SAA, this is about getting a healthy industy with a long term future.

[Shrike200]

From News 24:

Passengers to feel SAA cuts
07/04/2007 21:40 - (SA)
Johannesburg - South African Airways (SAA) could stop serving in flight meals and cut back on cabin crew under a R2.7bn cost-cutting proposal up for approval by its board next month, the Sunday Times has reported.
According to the newspaper, the government this week gave a R1.3bn cash injection to SAA, which was expected to post a loss of over R652m for 2006.
The planning group which compiled the proposal reportedly estimated that the national carrier could save R171m by not serving food on domestic economy flights and rationalising the meal options in business class.
It predicted savings of, among others, R287m from reviewing sponsorships and marketing; R60m by using fewer attendants on flights; and R80m from scrapping timetables, in-house magazines, entertainment guides and wine lists.
It suggested that unprofitable routes be suspended; that plans to buy aircraft, office furniture and flower arrangements be shelved; and that certain international offices be closed.
SAA has warned of up to 1 000 retrenchments.
The SA Transport and Allied Workers' Union has threatened industrial action unless it is included in the restructuring process.
1.3 billion. Thats a lot of money. And that's just the latest one. So yeah, nothing personal, but I reckon employees of other companies would also fight for huge pay if they had handouts like that - let's hope that this whole plan works, and SAA will be able to stand on it's own two feet. THEN there'll be far fewer reasons to bitch and moan. In the meantime...
About the food, Nationwide seems to have paved the way for so-called 'full service' airlines in this regard, so no worries! :hmm:

[CJ750]

Scrappimg timetables.....does that mean not printing them
Fewer Cabin Attendants....From some stories doing the rounds some are
useless anyway so the minimum required will be
interesting.
WHAT IS THE MINIMUM REQUIRED ON A A340

Why not make us pay for using the messy stinky toilets as well.

These sound like desperate measures.

Is it just me or does anyone else want to fly on other airlines instead for safety and comfort reasons

[asianeagle]

Hey gorman, you gotta love it, reminds me of similar stories from the past, too numerouse to mention. You could often see the red glow of embarrased faces eminating from Springbok cockpits. :\ :\

Here is a thought, if the service sucks etc etc etc, fly with someone whose service is good. The safety standards are in reality all the same.
The best will win and the rest will have to fade into oblivion. I could never understand why people flew with airways, moaned about it and then flew with them again.
Use the other guys, this would be the best thing for all the tax payers and maybe SAA.

[Deskjocky]

Gorman, play fair mate. Im very pro Mango but at the end of the day its all about market segmentation- that’s why SAA pumped cash into starting Mango and you got your job. Your fate is inextricably linked to that of SAA, believe me.

[Deskjocky]

Gorman, Im not going to get into a pissing match with you here- despite my naturally argumentative nature- if only to avoid giving some of these predators here any ammo. SAA still owns Mango and will do with it what it wants- as much as you would like to believe otherwise but King Khaya owns your ass!:ok:

[JetNut]

Gorman, little child, please grow up. You make pilots who operate multi-million dollar machinery look like immature dimwits (or did you buy your licence?). By making comments lacking any verification whatsover only undermines the integrity of hard working individuals who've actually slaved their butt off for years so that one day they could realise a lifelong dream, and get paid for it.

I don't see what the argument is about anyway, SAA pilots deserve their salaries, they are practically the best trained/educated pilots in the world (I know, as the Gulf airlines are begging SAA pilots to join).

Supply and demand...you get what you pay for.

[CJ750]

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

I don't see what the argument is about anyway, SAA pilots deserve their salaries, they are practically the best trained/educated pilots in the world (I know, as the Gulf airlines are begging SAA pilots to join).

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

:cool:According to some NOT ALL they are the only professional pilots that know anything about aviation and airline management as well.:cool:

[asianeagle]

JETNUT-"I don't see what the argument is about anyway, SAA pilots deserve their salaries, they are practically the best trained/educated pilots in the world (I know, as the Gulf airlines are begging SAA pilots to join)."

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here,:= the Gulf airlines are begging any pilots to join, its a fact of the market shortage. CX, QF, VS etc etc are being approached in the bars on layovers to feed the shortage due to the massive expanion plans of the middle east airlines.

I have worked for a few airlines, including SAA and the reality is, everybody is the same with regards to education and training. There are some super hot pilots, and some real plonkers all working for the same airlines. I think the majority of the SAA guys will agree, except the ones who think they are good but arent actually. Also bear in mind, a lot of the guys joining SAA these days have had their training done by the Comairs, Nationwides, Sunairs, Link, SAX etc etc. Thats why SAA hired them, cos they had the experience.


Also, dont forget, there was also an SAA guy that got bust paying for his licence, not to mention the ex SAAF boys now in SAA, who did dodgy COM/ ATP flight tests with a certain DE on his farm over a braai.

I hope SAA get a pay rise, cos then when my company decides to base me in SA, they will use that as the yardstick plus some.:D

[Avi8tor]

If a listed or privately owned airline, in europe or the US wants to pay its staff ( note i said staff, not only pilots) a gazillion ZAR's, thats kewl.

The point here is we have a little airline (yes, SAA is little) in a developing african country, thats losses are so large they could pay off a small nation's debt.

We have private airlines that are struggling to compete. Trust me, I would love to see all pilots, top to bottom earn more, but its a business.

[777SandMan]

"Having said that, I for one would not - under any circumstances - want to see the demise/downsizing of Africa's best carrier:"

JM, I hope this is a newspaper add or some glossy SAA bulls@$#!. Africa's best carrier - not again in a 100 years mate!:suspect: