Visa expiring, options?

[manamale]

After frequenting this forum for quiet some time, I have a question of my own. I'm an Irish native and moved to the states for flight training. I have a FAA CFII with my visa expiring this August, at that time I will have about 950 piston hours (no turbine )

I'm wondering what options I have? If I go back to Ireland, I will be job-less, car-less, and dig myself further and further into debt while trying to get my JAA license and instrument rating. I'm willing to go pretty much anywhere in the world. So the question is where can I work with these ratings and flight time, anybody ever able to renew there visa here in the US, any info from people who are or were in the same situation would be greatly appreciated.

[Bravo73]

Find a nice American lady and marry her. Then you can stay as long as you like. :ok:

[BaronG]

I thought the Irish had an arrangement with the US for longer work visa periods.... Everyone in the USA thinks they're Irish anyway, just get one of them to adopt you ;)

Whe I was leaving the states I tried Canada, south America, Africa, Far East, Russia, Australia, Europe (!) and probably the moon. All of those places have work, but with just piston time, an FAA license and no work visa priviledge, the pickings were pretty slim (read - none). I heard lots of stories about how easy it was to get a visa for place X (particularly Canada) but I coudn't see a way to make it work and I couldn't find any actual examples of people who'd done it without something more than their FAA Rotary license and UK passport.

If you can't bring yourself to marry a one of those American girls (or boys in some states!) then a trip back home might be all that is left to you.

The FAA->JAA is a bit of a slog - took me about 8 months from getting back to getting a job and cost about 25K (UKP, ATP including a Twin IR).

Worth it? At the moment yes - a few years down the line that may change though. Still you don't regret the (majority of) things you do, only the (majority of) things you don't do.

The only good news is that once you're on the "inside" in the JAA system you and you've got your foot on the ladder, there is a fair bit of demand (particularly in Ireland).

Good luck anyway - I've been in that position and it isn't a pleasant place to be, but you just have to stay focused and do what it takes.

BG.

[SASless]

Isn't this a grand country, the good ol' USA?

If you speak Spanish, wade across the Rio Grande, you have five free passes and only get done by the law on your sixth illegal ingress to the country. If you overstay a visa you get may get nicked, but immediately get turned loose to await your court hearing and you can skip out on that with no great chance of being "pursued". Unless such a person gets arrested for a crime, there is scant risk of his being chased down and then be deported.

Here we have a young lad that wants to work, pay taxes, and assimilate the culture while providing a Professional service using abilities gained at his own expense here in the USA, but there is no way for him to obtain a Work Visa because the good ol' American government does not consider him to be a "Professional" because the immigration folks say flying licenses do not equate to a University Degree therefore helicopter pilots are not qualified "Professionals".

That to me, is a rotten way of doing business.

I wonder if one applied for an extension to the current visa or for a new visa saying he was continuing his "education" by enrolling at a community college and obtaining another "student visa" for that purpose.....would not that allow one to "work" while attending that course of education? Could that be stretched out for a four year period.

[arismount]

...but, the answer to you problem can be found at the nearest Armed Forces recruiting office.

The folks there will tell you how to sign up for a hitch and at the end of it (if I'm not mistaken), you will be able to apply for citizenship. It used to be that way, anyhow; may be different nowadays. But at the least you will be able to stay in the States for six years while your hitch is running (or at least, that portion of the six years you won't be deployed overseas fighting the WOT).

If you qualify, you might even become a military helicopter pilot...Army is your best bet for that, as I don't believe non-citizens can become commissioned officers. This is another question the recruiter can answer for you. You might get another opinion from the folks at the nearest college ROTC office on the latter question.

Anyway, this is your ticket, if you want it bad enough I suppose you'll consider it. If not, best of luck back in Ireland.

[vaqueroaero]

I tried for all sorts of visas, extensions etc, but all to no avail. Luckily for me while doing all this stuff boy met girl and things progressed from there all to a happy end. My experiences taught me that really you have two options in country: get married, or join the forces.

Sasless, even as a legal newcomer you get screwed over at all points. Bank of America? Sorry sir you have no credit, so we'll give you a restricted one, to help you build credit. Here illegally? Sure have one, no problemo.......Don't even start me on trying to get a mortgage. Why is it that if you have never had any debt, have a 6 figure deposit ready for a house, have got a decent paying job, then you are deemed as being unable to be fiscally responsible? Someone eventually gives you one, but at a price. That to me is weird.

Don't mean to hijack the thread......

[BaronG]

@ SASLess
Actually a degree isn't much use to you - I have one of those.... There's still a limit on the number of visas and the limit is used up pretty quickly by other professions that are considered more vital than aviation. Besides which the hoops the employer has to jump through put most of them off.
Both my wife and I were offered Visa's by our respective employers based on our jobs in the US, but neither of them could actually get the Immigration dept to agree.
I can't complain, that's the law of the land and you work/live to it.

@arismount
I looked into this route actually. This seems to be a popular misconception - when the US mil. say they give citizenship to foreigners who serve in the armed forces, they are talking about people who already have a green card or other permanent rights to stay in the USA.
You can't just join up as a foreigner on a "holiday visa" or any other temporary visa, do a tour in Iraq and then get a passport. They won't take you unless you're already legally permanent in the country.
BG.

[SASless]

The credit problem is not limited to legal immigrants only.....show up at yer friendly bank looking for a loan after having had twenty years experience paying cash on the barrel head for all your purchases after using the "Save then Spend" method. They said the same thing.....despite having no credit problems as evidenced by a clean Credit Report....but no "HISTORY" of satisfactory "repayment" of credit extended as there was never a need for borrowing before.


I rank bankers right up there with the rest of the weasels like Real Estate Agents, Insurance salesmen, boat brokers, Inland Revenue (IRS bureaucrats), and Lawyers.


My permanently strained tendency to commit homicide streak is beginning to show as I am dealing with all five simultaneously now.
Thus I feel yer pain ol' buddy!


Baron,

What I was supposing is using the "getting a degree" as the basis for a student visa as compared to using the "held" degree as a basis.

One has to be a full time student but can work "part-time" as I understand the Student Visa program. I might be wrong....but it is a thought.

[B Sousa]

Hey, back in when Sasless had a full head of hair. I know of some who did joing the military. They are still here.
If your helicopter rated and join up, you have a good chance of going to Flight School and flying for the US Army in their Iraqi training grounds.
(Just make sure any guarantees from some meathead recruiter are in writing.)
After a few years if you dont like it get out with all your civilian ratings, some experience on something other than a tinfoil Robbie and go to work.

[ShyTorque]

Quote: I rank bankers right up there with the rest of the weasels like Real Estate Agents, Insurance salesmen, boat brokers, Inland Revenue (IRS bureaucrats), and Lawyers. My permanently strained tendency to commit homicide streak is beginning to show as I am dealing with all five simultaneously now.
Thus I feel yer pain ol' buddy!unquote

SASless, did you crash a boat into a house, or what? :ooh:

[romeogulf]

When I was in the US for training (2004) I walked into an Army recruitment office. After some explanation about who I was and where I came from they told me there were chances to 'join' Especially after I told them about the fact that I just had finished my CPL they showed great interest. (probably because they had found a potential victim:})

So off I went to do the ASVAB and GT tests and got a score that was high enough to qualify to continue further tests for Aviation Warrant Officer. They told me the AFAST(Alternate Flight Aptitude Selection Test) would just be a formality because of my previous flying experience. But then the problems started. As a non us citizen you can't join as a warrant officer. So they came up with a great plan:hmm: , just join as an enlisted soldier for four years...And apply again after those four years for a pilot position. I considered it but found it a waste of all the money I put into my flying. Without any qaranties it just wasn't an option..

I was 20 at the time, I loved living in the US and I even could sing the American Anthem (I still can;) ) but there was no option for foreigners to go straight into warrant officer training.

So to get back on topic: Joining the US Army as a pilot isn't an option. At least it wasn't three years ago.. things might have changed as they might need more pilots. If somebody knows, tell me about it because I would join in a heartbeat!

[embrunman]

I tried to join all four forces in that order: Air, Navy, Army, Marines for whatever position in whatever country (read Iraq), they could offer in order to stay in the US and gain a green card.
That was 3 years ago and I was there legally on a sudent visa: they all answered the same tune: you need to be a permanent resident to apply, period.
Still the same today: just check their web sites.
No need to dream about it anymore

[B Sousa]

So they came up with a great plan , just join as an enlisted soldier for four years...And apply again after those four years for a pilot position

NOT..........NO WAY. You get a signed contract that says you are off to flight school after basic. If you dont get that far, they let you go.......no other BS is necessary. Some recruiter was after your lunch.
You may be settled now, butif you are not, the Army for a few years "as a Pilot" is not a bad gig.
Sasless owes me another one at the Officers Club.

[agent 99]

I'm not an American or trying to start a fight,just interested to hear some views of what Americans think about a guy trying to bypass their immigration laws to stay in their country.
Surely these laws are there for a purpose and if you can't legally be there then thats what American people want.
Before you start attacking me I'm just playing the Devils advocate here.
Good luck to you if you manage to stay.

[romeogulf]

Back then I had a feeling the recruiter was just ''after my lunch'' It's easier to find people willing to fly for the Army then it is to find somebody that wants to enlist in the infantry. I got a feeling that me signing would have put him one person closer to his monthly target.

I specifically asked if I could get a contract but, since I wasn't a citizen(with the possibility to obtain a security clearance) , I couldn't legally complete the remaining flight aptidude tests :ugh: It seemed like the guy didn't really know what to do with a foreign applicant.. can't blame him because there probably aren't that many. Maybe I should have pressured him into doing more research... but shortly after I was told there were no options I got a job offer as a CFI so I went that route. I'm happy with the decision I made. Joining as an enlisted soldier would mean I have to stop (or reduce) doing what I love most. However I would be in the US tomorrow if I could get into Army flight school direct.

[romeogulf]

Hi agent 99,

I don't think you should look at it as trying to by pass the American immigration laws. I wanted to join because to me flying in the Army seems to be very exciting. I think it is a very good start of a flying career. Especially for someone young. After having served in the army I would still have been somewere around 30.. more then enough years left to fly straight and level to oil rigs.

I looked at the Army as one of the possible employment opportunities.. wouldn't you consider everything when you are starting off in this career?

I would have enlisted if I wanted to ''by pass'' the American immigration laws. I have a good job back home but I still participate in the Green Card lottery.. there is nothing wrong with wanting to live somewere you like it..:ok:

[B Sousa]

didn't really know what to do with a foreign applicant

More than likely. Today they are hurting for numbers and I think you may stand a better chance. Thats the way it was during my time, albiet I was already an LT. We had guys with lenses on that couldnt hit thier ass with both hands......in my flight class. But we also had a couple hundred graduating every two weeks. Now its much less and per month.
No matter what anyone tells you, "If it aint in writing, it dont exist"
My friend is from Manchester England ( and is the only Man U fan that I know of) came over did the the deed and was in Vietnam as a Pilot before the ink was dry on his contract. He did rather well and is now retired from California Highway Patrol also. Hes the type of person I love to see come to the US. work hard, solid citizens.
On the other side of the coin, had another guy from the UK here , hard worker, good family man and they took away his Visa. I was so pissed off at my country. Heres a great guy, great family and he had to go back. BUT daily we have thousands cross the border most of whom I dont blame, BUT now I have to take care of them. and they get things free that I have to pay for........Its a crazy world out there for sure.

[SASless]

99,

There's 12,000,000 illegal aliens in the country at last guess and more coming every single day.....I would suggest one or two more might not make a great difference. At least you share most of a language and can assimilate the culture here as part of ours started with yours.

The sad commentary is good folks who obey the law get the cold shoulder and those who scoff at the law prosper.

Bert,

As you well know....we Warrant Officers always turned a blind eye to the RLO's (Real Live Officer for the unknowing...) inability to find their own hind ends with both hands much less fly and shoot with any dexterity.

Remember...guys who could fly formation flew Slicks, those who could not flew Guns or Cobra's.

Chinook pilots of course flew Slicks, Guns, Cobra's and airplanes by proxy and usually on at least a 75 foot line from the Hook.

[agent 99]

Don't get me wrong guys, if he can find a legal way to stay then good on him.
Just think its an interesting scenario.
I've been hearing alot of the same talk over here in OZ at the moment, Especially with New Zealanders training in NZ knowing that they intend to ship over to OZ before the ink on their license is dry.
Just interested to hear the opinions people have....

[rudestuff]

I think there have been loads of us in your position - the bottom line is that if you can speak English fluently, have skills in demand, are trustworthy and able to contribute something to society - you have zero chance of getting in.

If you're Irish, you have a slightly better chance than us English (we have a 'special relationship' which means we can go an fight wars with the US but cannot put in for the immigration lottery)

My friend and I tried the Forces route - the Army recruiters were practically foaming at the mouth when two helicopter pilots walked in and asked to join up - but after a phonecall to the bosses we were told we needed a greencard to apply.

I asked for where it said that in the rulebook, and was given a reference.
It said "in time of peace, no foreign national may serve in the armed forces of the united states" - apparently in the eyes of the US military we are at peace and there are no wars going on in either Iraq or Afghanistan!

Too bad - I was really looking forward to flying the new Little Bird.

[SASless]

There is a cancer here....hopefully it will not spread!

JAA students are required to wear a uniform of black trousers, white short sleeved flight shirts, and black shoes....

[Bry78]

Agent 99,

I'm an American, and I don't have a problem with any foreigner that comes to the U.S. for an education; whether it's a degree, pilots license, etc. Most Americans are very receptive to people from other countries coming to the U.S. to learn. Also, most Americans wouldn't have a problem with foreigners staying in the U.S. to work and live.
I hope that the Irish gentleman that started this thread does find a way to stay in the U.S. He sounds like he deserves it. He's working hard towards building his future, so it's a shame that the government is making it difficult for him.
The problem that most Americans have with immigration is the large number of Mexican illegals that are pouring across the southern border. We understand they want a better life; but there is no excuse for them to be able to do so illegally. It is a major folly of the U.S. government. It's as if the government embraces illegals, and then punishes someone that attempts to obtain a visa or citizenship legally. I'm hoping some major reforms come soon.
But, as I mentioned, I wish the best of luck to the Irishman getting his visa.

[manamale]

Well thanks for all the replies, so it seems a return to Europe is my only option, anybody have any luck with a move to Canada, visa, requirements etc

[dosatps]

There was a recent thread on another helicopter forum that mentioned an immediate need for pilots - even low time pilots - in Canada. I know of one who has about the same quals as you - he contacted all the Canadian operators, managed to convert his FAA license to a Canadian one (not too difficult) and began working there last month. He ran into the same problem you have - his visa expired and he was unable to renew. Keep searching and you'll find something. Transport Canada has a website that explains the license conversion. The jobs are way, way up north so I imagine they are seasonal. Best, Kevin

[John Eacott]

I rank bankers right up there with the rest of the weasels like .................... and Lawyers.:eek:

Well, that'll see you removed from Tudor's Christmas Card list :rolleyes:

[SASless]

Not actually John.....there is a difference between a shyster lawyer and a distinguished Barrister.












About 500 UKP per hour actually.

[Letsby Avenue]

For interest, here are the results of the 2007 Diversity Visa Lottery

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1317.html

Interesting to note that those countries that might have a reputation for scams or a particularly active underworld have done rather well :hmm:

With only 49 from NI I shan't hold my breath :bored:

[diethelm]

If you have the ability to make a $500,000 investment in a qualified small business you may be able to extend your visa.

[murdock]

Well manamale it seems like your U.S. visa days are numbered. I was also at HAI, did my 2 years and then had to leave. Let me see, I signed up in a recruiters office abour 3 years ago when the war was going, he said not a chance without a green card. So I went and worked in the Caribbean. I returned from there and met some people I knew in the North Carolina National Guard, and the chief of the Apache Unit - he swore blind he could get me recruited as they needed people so badly. Never heard from after I said ,I doubt it and good luck. So I proceeded to Canada.

I have worked there for the last 2 years and am on my 3rd year now, as well as having been back in the Caribbean this winter. When I went to Canada I had be-friended quite a few high up people in the military that reckoned they could have gotten me in the US Army as a pilot, but at that point I had worked so hard to get where I was, I just didnt bother anymore. All I can say is that Canada is far more welcoming and far easier to get the opportunites to work there as a pilot. The U.S. is unable to sponsor pilots, and to be honest most companies a few years ago were afraid to even think about sponsoring foreigners in aviation after 9/11. Furthermore, you need to have a college degree to be even sponsored in the U.S. So that was a no go for me anyway.

Along the way I have met some good people who have tried to help me get work around the world with my FAA license - including Mr. Sousa there (thanks again Bert). Always stay in contact with people - its a small industry. The funny thing is, I have a U.S. social security card, a valid drivers license and can talk with about most American accents, and have passed as one while driving across the border just showing my U.S. drivers license (I am Irish too, by the way). With all that I could go back to the States, get a job and there would be no problem whatsoever and keep paying my taxes, as the IRS does not talk to the INS. The problem would occur when I would go to leave the U.S. I have a friend who arrived over from Ireland about 12 years ago - he never went back and works and lives his life happily in the US, but can never leave the country. I think now he has his green card though.

I debated the whole marriage thing myself, but didnt bother in the end. I try for the lottery every year, for the past 5 years - no luck yet! Oh well.

Anyway, I have been rambling here a bit - sorry too many rum and cokes while sitting at the water here on my island. Anyways, I am a few months away from my Canadian residency. If you are interested in working in Canada PM me, and hopefully you will have time to get there for this season coming - hopefully it will be a hot dry one and the fires will be raging again like last year! After this season, I am debating hitting up Australia for their season. Also, I hear Bristow are hiring lots of people for their VFR ops these days. Might be worth giving them a shout.

Good luck in your adventures.