Terror in the cockpit!!!!(A Nigerian thing?)

[Flying Bucket]

I bring this to your attention now that i am at crossroads as to how to deal with obnoxious captains.
For a while, i have pondered on the attitudes of some captains in the cockpit and wondered whether it was a lack of CRM, or just outright sadism.
I recently operated some flights with some ex(WT)Nigeria Airways captains and found that they all have a similar pattern of behavior, it's no wonder why they couldn't get into Virgin Nigeria.
They all seem to have this, I AM GOD and the rest of you may serve me attitude.
I must ask though, Is it right or acceptable for a captains to yell at his tops at his co-pilot because the co makes a mistake or just out of oppression?
Is it right for a captain to demean his co-pilot in the presence of cabin attendants and or passengers or even at all ?
These questions are a puzzle to answer as the attitudes of those who came from WT seems to be accepted a s a norm.
They spend most of their time trying to show how much better they are than everyone else leaving safety to question.
I have tried taking this issue up with upper management, but i don't seem to be coming up with adequate responses. Management seats are also occupied by the same types anyway.
Someone suggested putting it in writing to management, but, this will be viewed as mutinous, quoting one of them i overheard using the term.
This has become a contentious issue, since even upgrades now are based on how much cock-sucking one can come up with.
Though the thread is open to all, i ask that you all make your opinions, bearing in mind that Nigeria is a complex society where age and seniority carry more weight than what may be right.
I have had it up to my neck with these losers and i have no apologies concerning them.:mad:
Any ideas guys?

[jboz]

check your PM.

[jagunmolu]

Its really sad to still hear things like this are happening,Its this TIN GOD syndrome.dont worry guys the young shall grow and the OLD shall STEP ASIDE,All these shall soon pass if the regulatory authourity keeps its words by enforcing the 1 in 60 rule that will soon be in force.You cant teach an old dog new tricks[CRM]that is.Weep not child your salvation is barely away,the reality however is most of the guys that are taking over from these guys have also soaked up these lousy antisafety i can do nothing wrong chieftain attitudes;God help us,however on a serious note.DONT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE BULLIED,REPORT TINGODS TO HIGHER MANAGEMENT EVEN IF THEY ARE SIAMESE TWINS THAT ACT THE SAME.KEEP A COPY OF YOUR WRITE UP,KEEP REPORTING THESE UNTOWARD BEHAVIOURS.SOMEONE .SOME DAY, NOT TOO FAR AWAY; INDEPENDENT AUDITORS WILL SNIFF IT OUT. AND THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.YOU CAN ALSO REFUSE TO FLY WITH SUCH TINGODS AHD SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO FIND OUT WHY?DONT GIVE UP ITS A SAFETY ISSUE.I WISH YOU THE WILL AND COURAGE NOT TO GIVE UP.:hmm: :mad: :eek: DO NOT IGNORE THEM,NOTHING VENTURED,NO PROGRESS.IF WE ALL KEEP-QUIET THEY WILL PREVAIL i.e EVIL PEOPLE..............:E :E

[LongJohnThomas]

Fb,
I'm sorry you had to experience this first hand to appreciate what i have been crusading about for sometime, but, hey? Thats life!
These guys have been built with an attitude that would not be acceptable anywhere else in the world but Nigeria.
I i magine that you are not Nigerian and thus, you are alien to the ways of our tin gods?
I would suggest that you write what your grieviences are to mamnegement and copy the NCAA.
This WILL not go down well with those in authority, but it's your only way to secure your own self and your subsequent actions.
Bear in mind that they will come after you! This also is a norm!
I dont know what company you work for, but i think there must be one person in upper management you can speak to.
If that fails, then i don't seee you with a choice, but to get your hinds outta there!
Keep it real man, let me know how things progress?
Cheers.
LJT.

[Oyindo]

Call in sick every time you’re roasted to fly with the tyrant and if every other co-pilot does the same, management will soon reign him in when no one flies with him.:ugh:

[nuclear weapon]

As a nigerian who trained in the UK I completed my MCC not too long ago and remembered the instructor telling me and my partner on the course who was white that this sort of thing is a very big problem in Asia and has caused a lot of accidents. First officers were often reluctant to correct Older captains when it was obvious he was making a mistake that could cost lives.

You have to bear in mind there were no mcc courses when these guys did thier flight training and you would think that after working abroad some of them would ahve learnt how things are done in other countries they will try to emulate good examples but no way. As with all things Nigerian most of our politicians that are corrupt actually studied abroad mostly UK and America and you would think they would have seen how some things are organised here and would try to do the same thing back home but no way.

I am guessing you are not Nigerian from the tone of your post. If so my advice for you is to be patient complaining to thier friends in management would probably make things worse. I dont know what the mandatory retirement age is in Nigeria but given time some of these habits will go away.

[Flying Touareg]

It is a typical Nigerian Mentality of "i am the boss" attitude .It is also a societal problem that prevails everywhere.This s:mad: t happens in every sector and we have been brought up to show respect to our elders and not to say no.

Nevertheless, it is wrong and i believe we also have a fault. Telling management will not solve the problem. Some of them are part of management unfortunately. Flying bucket, the ball is in your court, i suggest u need to kick some a:mad: and show them that u can survive without the job. Na by force:( :cool:

[AlternativeProcedure]

I feel for you buddy,

I've had similar experiences and dealt with it in my own way. Like someone mentioned earlier, if other co-pilots are complaining about the same set of problems, then the problem lies with him not you. Thats the first step, the next is to report him to management. Everything u complain about cannot just be pushed by him to the side as a lie from a disgruntled co-pilot. When others file complaints, he'll cool down. I find that sooner or later, people like these dig themselves into a hole that exposes them. Just be professional and do ur job, nobody can fire u for that.

AP

[Flying Bucket]

Thanks guys, but it's all easier said than done!
It's not just one of them, they constitute a group of which some happen to be of very good moral and CRM standards, but the remaining just suck! That's to put it quite lightly!
My safety is important to me, but at the end of the day, the safety of others has inadvertently been placed in "our" custody.
Calling in sick would not really be a wise option, i see that as avoiding the problem that won't go away.
I worry not only for myself but for others who will come behind me and might not have the guts a vent a word and things go horribly wrong as a result. I doubt my conscience would give me rest if so.
This is a real issue to be addressed guys!
Any more inputs?

[LongJohnThomas]

Fb,
I can only imagine how you must feel, but that's beside the point.
I think you should work out a game plan, either by trying get the Ncaa to plan an unscheduled inspection and observation on one of your flights with these 'Gods', or plainly grabbing the 'bull by the horn' and officially going for whatever the consequences may be.
I must warn you though, that they have a click and getting a job elsewhere might turn out to be problem eventually, since the aviation sector in Nigeria is so small and tight-knit.
It just does'nt get any better man!
Good luck.
Cheers mate.

[Parrot]

I think its time to keep a personal CVR in your pocket:hmm: :hmm:

[Shinobi]

Flying bucket.Pls accept my sympathy.I am a Captain who has flown in various parts of the world including Nigeria. From my interaction with some Nigerian pilots including,some ex-Nigeria Airways pilots, this is a problem.According to some of my associates in Nigeria,"these characters" were a factor in the demise of Nigeria Airways.Big egos,feeling like superior Pilots,etc.These were the trademarks of these "nuts" in Nigeria Airways.I must honestly say that,some very good,professional Pilots also came out of Nigeria Airways.People who were professional to the core,unlike these other characters.This is actually why a lot of them did not make it into Virgin Nigeria according to info.Most of these guys need to be sent back to school to learn how to interact with other human beings.I strongly suggest that you talk to a trustworthy person n your management about organisin a CRM programme.To the best of my knowledge, It will allow people to open up about their frustrations, working with these people while an independent party gives a critique.It may change some of them.I believe that it is mandatory in Nigeria that Pilots have to undergo a CRM course, at least once a year.You may also use the NCAA's assistance to enforce this law in a covert manner. All the first officers I have flown with in my career have good things to say about their experiences while working with me.Allthough, I have had some First officers who were just very rude,showoffs, a big ego,with very little to give when it comes to performance etc.Some EX Nigeria Airways F/O/s said that some of these Ex Nigeria Airways Captains could not actually explain their own behaviours.They were just displaying behaviours that they inherited from their predecessors because they did not know any other way.They also lack leadership skills.They were placed into leadership positions without the training for leadership,allthough some people were born with leadership skills.These fellows are also accident risks,due to their way of interaction.They actually have poor feelings about themselves,that is why they try to humiliate others in public, thinking that will make peolple tfeel that they are highly professional.Some of the pilots who were in Nigeria Airways were initially flying in other companies.You will find out that the nasty ones started their flying in the Nigeria Airways and have never been anywhere else.I just want you to know that I, a Captain do sympathise with you

[Shinobi]

Flying bucket.Pls accept my sympathy.I am a Captain who has flown in various parts of the world including Nigeria. From my interaction with some Nigerian pilots including,some ex-Nigeria Airways pilots, this is a problem.According to some of my associates in Nigeria,"these characters" were a factor in the demise of Nigeria Airways.Big egos,feeling like superior Pilots,etc.These were the trademarks of these "nuts" in Nigeria Airways.I must honestly say that,some very good,professional Pilots also came out of Nigeria Airways.People who are professional to the core,unlike these other characters.This is actually why a lot of them did not make it into Virgin Nigeria according to info.Most of these guys need to be sent back to school to learn how to interact with other human beings.I strongly suggest that you talk to a trustworthy person n your management about organisin a CRM programme.To the best of my knowledge, It will allow people to open up about their frustrations, working with these people while an independent party gives a critique.It may change some of them.I believe that it is mandatory in Nigeria that Pilots have to undergo a CRM course, at least once a year.You may also use the NCAA's assistance to enforce this law in a covert manner. All the first officers I have flown with in my career have good things to say about their experiences while working with me.Allthough, I have had some First officers who were just very rude,showoffs, a big ego,with very little to give when it comes to performance etc.Some EX Nigeria Airways F/O/s said that some of these Ex Nigeria Airways Captains could not actually explain their own behaviours.They were just displaying behaviours that they inherited from their predecessors because they did not know any other way.They also lack leadership skills.They were placed into leadership positions without the training for leadership,allthough some people were born with leadership skills.These fellows are also accident risks,due to their way of interaction.They actually have poor feelings about themselves,that is why they try to humiliate others in public, thinking that will make peolple tfeel that they are highly professional.Some of the pilots who were in Nigeria Airways were initially flying in other companies.You will find out that the nasty ones started their flying in the Nigeria Airways and have never been anywhere else.I just want you to know that I, a Captain do sympathise with you

[Flying Bucket]

Thanks a lot. I do appreciate your being very frank and quite open about your thoughts on this issue.
I have my head in a bucket here, and i wish i could find a way out.
Well, i guess patience might just do the trick after a while, or i'll just go as 'nuts' as these guys.

[jagunmolu]

TB,Everywhere,all companies have been infiltrated by these guys and you better believe it TINGODS,SURROGATES,THIER CHILDREN etc;you have to stand up for safety and be counted .keeping quiet or looking the other way will not solve the problem and you will meet them everywhere you go like LJT said they hsve formed a clique a powerful and EVIL one at that and trust me it will continue for a long time past the period of the self accomplished TJNGODS.Why?because they are mostly in positions to hire people,they hire their likes........innocent guys are surrepticiously turned ZOMBIES.....If OGA does it; it must be RIGHT.Tfe VIRUS is spreading,but not to worry,they are all been exposed just shine your eyes and stay alive to witness them self destruct.trust me they will self destruct:{

[NDB17]

We all talk about these individuals being exposed,but I believe what is needed is an attitudinal change. We cannot wish them away because of their lack of CRM, neither can we force it upon them when the general attitude is anti-CRM. Airline managers have to buy into CRM first before we can start to see it being taken seriously. Unfortunately, like everything Nigeria a series of accidents has to happen in which the lack of proper Crm training is identified as contributory, before anything serious is done. We just lack the will power to self initiate things.
Until Airline managers buy into it, NCAA and the likes will yell to no avail and nothing concrete will be done.
Solution: Know your onions and be at the top of your game and be ready to stand up for what you believe in. Easier said than done but that's the real mccoy.

[18left]

personally,if your managment is not prepared to entertain your complaints,then you are working in the WRONG company,with absolutely no regard for SAFETY!It implies that CRM,is thoroughly lacking,and we all know how many crashes have occured in this manner,including garuda indonesia just a few weeks back.Get out and look for another job!
While looking for another job equip yourself with enough information about what you fly,and always look out for mistakes the captain makes and highlight them,if they know you know your s--t they will back off.
Futhermore,you sound like a very nice humble guy,you have to turn yourself into a mean nasty individual,and meet his nastiness for nastiness,and when he degrades you in public do the same back e.g is this what you have to show for all your years in aviation,and it has made you mean?
Futhermore,make him night stop in a place he was not prepared to e.g if hes nasty to you on a flight out of base,when you land tell him you are not flying until he apologises!
You have to resist bullying ALWAYS,and its never to late to start,but in whatever you do be careful with CRM,the safety of your pax,is all to important,so dont engage him in any confict fron start up to shut down

[LongJohnThomas]

Fb,
NDB17 and 18L have said it all, i doubt there's much else to say mate.
Keep yopur head up, and out of the water man, i think you'll be ok.
Cheers.

[PLTFORLIFE]

Not to worry Flying Bucket about all these so called Tingods, more like (papergods) they all have EXPIRY dates on their careers which is fast approaching. My main concern is that they will have spread their Anti-CRM virus to the younger generation of pilots who will in turn behave like them. WE HAVE TO ERADICATE THIS VIRUS :ok: