Brand New Twotters

[Fat Reggie]

Looks like its going to happen. New Twin Otters with -34 engines manufactured by Viking Aircraft.

http://www.vikingair.com/content.aspx?id=320

$3.2 mil a copy for the new dash 400 Twotter. Thats 60 lbs of Tq on the dial and MUCH better hot & high performance.

To hell with junk, I want New.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Have the operators expressed enough interest and made the deposits required to make the new Twotters a worthwhile project for Viking and are they finally going ahead?

Edited to add:- Can't see that G1000 panel lasting long in the tougher areas of operation. At least the old steam instruments were reasonably bulletproof and capable of getting through a week or two of abuse at a time without input from an engineer. It'll be great for the commuters, though...:ok:

[B Sousa]

Remember , never fly an A model of anything........

[V1... Ooops]

No, it won't be 60 torque on the dial. The -34 engines have been chosen because the -27s are out of production - the -34 is the only small PT6 still in production, thus the only engine available as new/zero time.

The flat rating will continue at 620 SHP, same as horsepower remains flat rated at 620 SHP on existing series 300 Twin Otters that have been retrofitted with -34 engines by STC. The horsepower limitation is an aerodynamic issue - the fin and rudder are not large enough to handle an asymmetry greater than 620 hp. This is why the -27 engine, which has a thermodynamic rating of 680 hp (equal to 53.3 pounds of torque) was flat-rated down to 620 at the start of series 300 production almost 40 years ago. You will note that the series 300 aircraft have the same size fin and rudder as the original series 100, which was equipped with 550 horsepower -21 engines. Rudder travel was increased on the series 300 and additional vortex generators were added to the fin (above the horizontal stabiliser), but the greatest asymmetry that the engineering flight test team could accept was 620 hp - hence that red line at 50 torque that we all know so well.

Trust me on this one, I was there in Victoria at the operators' conference when the Series 400 was announced last September, and there were lots of questions about this exact issue posed to the Viking engineering staff by the attendees at the conference.

[V1... Ooops]

Have the operators expressed enough interest and made the deposits required to make the new Twotters a worthwhile project for Viking and are they finally going ahead?
We were told at the conference in September 2006 that a final go / no-go decision would be made during the first half of 2007. Viking is very well financed, very solidly backed, so if sufficient deposits can be converted into firm orders and the overall economics look good, there is no reason to prevent them from going ahead with the project.

The key issue, of course, is how many operators are willing to ante up three an a half large for a new Twin Otter. For non-commercial operators who need the specialty capabilities of the aircraft (e.g. governments, military, oil industry, research), the capital cost is not a significant issue - it's half the price of a new King Air. For commercial operators who charter the aircraft out by the hour or on an ACMI basis, the cap cost is a fairly big pill to swallow.

[V1... Ooops]

Can't see that G1000 panel lasting long in the tougher areas of operation.
On the contrary, as far back as the early 1990s, bush operators such as Merpati in Indonesia (a VFR only operation) were retrofitting first generation glass cockpits (Collins displays) precisely because these displays had far lower MTBF (mean time between failures) and far lower costs of ownership than conventional electro-mechanical instruments. In the late 90s, I worked for an operator that retrofitted 12 Twin Otters with dual Garmin 430 stacks to replace the original com/nav units. They bought 3 additional 430s to keep as line spares, and to the best of my knowledge, these three are still in the store in the original shrink-wrap.

The Garmin 1000 panel is well proven now - it's basic equipment on everything from Cessna 172s to the new Cessna Mustang Jet. The system architecture is very straightforward - when you release a couple of fasteners and tilt the panel aft (it is hinged at the bottom), you see a rack of LRUs (Line Replaceable Units). As for the display itself - it is substantially the same as a high quality notebook computer display. That is certainly 'tough enough'. The display can be replaced with a new one, if needed, in about 15 minutes. The replacement cost (cost of a whole new display screen) is less than what it costs to ship a conventional electro-mechanical AI or HSI out of Africa to where it can be repaired, and ship it back again.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Howdy Mike, good gen. Ta muchly.

Still a bit suspicious of this noofangled electronic skullduggery and would prefer steam for basic engine and flight instruments. Know the G430 well and had no probs with it so far but not sure chucking the entire dash into a single display gives enough redundancy for the grottier ops. Fine for the softer machines like C206, L410 and such:E that don't really get about much, but reckon the mighty Twotter deserves something more bulletproof.

[Fat Reggie]

I don't think 3.2 mil is to much for a new twotter. Sounds darn resonable to me. There is certainly a demand for this type. Is the demand enough to start production? I don't know, but rumor has it...yes. Though we all know that twotter rumors are lengendary. Whats a new Pilatus Porter cost and where do they get their new -27 engines? (price including oar locks please)

[Solid Rust Twotter]

What new -27 engines are these of which you speak, Earthling? Heard they're out of production, hence the switch to -34s for the new Twotter. (Unless those cunning Swiss have a warehouse full of -27s stashed somewhere.)

Spoke to a driver who'd been flying one with a -34 upgrade and he said the same thing. 50 psi torques max but better hot and high performance and torque remained high up to an increased altitude. Sounds like a bargain to me...:ok:

[Sir Osis of the river]

Must say that I would side with SRT on the choice of instruments in a Twotter. Some of the places I've taken them and seen other people take them are not suited to modern Electrics.

It might suit some airline type operations like Merpati, Lesotho in the old days, or even sightseers in the Grand Canyon who most probably have ongoing daily maintanence.

However your average bush operator in Africa, maybe except Zimex, does not have an engineer on sight, let alone an avionics specialist. Day in and day out operating on dusty, bumpy and muddy conditions will take their toll with thje a/c only seeing an engineer maybe once a month.

Add to that, flying tons of maize in leaking bags, (Man, that fine dust gets into everything), high humididty, etc and I figure it wont be too long before you are flying partial panel.

(That all said, I do agree that your average African operator would be unlikely to be able to afford the sticker price of a new one)

[Fat Reggie]

I better do some deeper checking. Some dummy told me 60 Tq and I bought it. I'm sceptical of a glass cockpit in the bush. Better to go with what you know I'd say...unless you want to risk money for experimenting. As for weight, there are a couple of different MTGW ups of a thousand pounds if you have the thick skinned wings. I wonder if Viking is going to up the weight limit? (not so sure it would be such a good idea for the bush) The wing hard point mod for external stores in interesting. Might get something besides a relief work contract with that mod, say something that pays $3000+ a flight hour maybe?

[V1... Ooops]

Contemporary flat panel avionics are bulletproof - far, far more reliable than any electro-mechanical instrument could ever be.

Think of it in this context: Have you ever seen a Garmin 430 or 530 that has failed? Not likely, and Garmin has sold over 80,000 of those pieces of kit now. I use a Garmin 496 aviation portable on my motorcycle, leave it out in the rain, toss it in the saddlebag, never had any problems. Even the satellite antenna (the round XM antenna for the real-time meteo information) sits out in the rain on one side of the handlebars. The larger Garmin systems such as the G-1000 are just evolutions of the same technology.

I think that when many of us consider the question of glass displays in remote operations, we think of the first generation of displays that came out in the late 1980s and early 1990s. We are way, way ahead of that now.

Given a choice between contemporary 'glass' avionics and electro-mechanical for bush operations, I'd take glass every time without a moment of hesitation.

[V1... Ooops]

there are a couple of different MTGW ups of a thousand pounds if you have the thick skinned wings. I wonder if Viking is going to up the weight limit?

The MTOW increase to either 14,500 lbs (for wheel operations) or 15,000 lbs (for water bombing operations, on floats) is accomplished by way of an engineering order. de Havilland only made that E.O. available to military customers (for the wheel configuration) or to government operators (e.g. state registered aircraft) for the water bombing operations.

There is no intent at all to look at any kind of approval for weights over 12,500 lbs. That would move the aircraft out of FAR 23 and into a different category for both aircraft certification and crew certification, and there's no upside benefit to the manufacturer to go down that route.

The military operators don't have to be concerned about weight because they have no concerns about civil regulations - they can do whatever they want to do. de Havilland didn't certify those military aircraft for operations over 12,500 - they just incorporated the E.O., sold the aircraft to the military customer, and wished them a good day. As for the water bombers - they work on the understanding that if you encounter any problems, you just push a little button on the yoke, and 4 seconds later, instead of weighing 15,000 lbs, you now weigh 9,000 lbs. There are a whole bunch of other issues involved - wing life is reduced, wing tip tanks must be kept full to reduce wing bending moments, etc., but there is really no point in getting into that.

[I.R.PIRATE]

I am also for steam driven instrumentation in the bush, but for a slightly different reason.

IF your G1000 packs up when out in the sticks, there is no one that has ever seen something like that, let alone worked on it.

For steam gauges there are always 'mechanics' and loaner units.

Another thing I love about steam is the fact it it is not driven by electrical power.

[Woof etc]

Beats me why someone doesn't come up with a clean sheet design in this category. (17-19 seat twin turbo-prop). There seems to be a ready market for this type of aircraft but few contenders.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

You can't beat perfection...:ok:

[AT502B]

V1 Quote:"The -34 engines have been chosen because the -27s are out of production - the -34 is the only small PT6 still in production, thus the only engine available as new/zero time."

Thats not exactly true, in the ag-flying business the are 3 small pt-6's in production the PT6-11 (550shp), PT6-15 (680shp) and the PT6-34 (750shp). These are available from Pratt brand new in a crate. There is also the PT6-145 they put in the Piper Meridian which is 5-600shp if I remember correctly.

[Very_Low_and_Fast]

Is Viking going to remove "9 hrs endurance" from the web page??
"Maximum Endurance
with Standard Tankage (2583 lb (1172 kg) fuel): 7 hr 10 min
with Long Range Tankage (3190 lb (1447 kg) fuel): 9 hr"

Or is the fuel flow going to be half what is it now?

:}

[Very_Low_and_Fast]

"However your average bush operator in Africa, maybe except Zimex, does not have an engineer on sight, let alone an avionics specialist. Day in and day out operating on dusty, bumpy and muddy conditions will take their toll with thje a/c only seeing an engineer maybe once a month."

Osis,
Have you heard of ANY other company in Africa flying Twotters??

:rolleyes:

[Sir Osis of the river]

Low and Fast,

Your handle suggests that you dont fly twotters:confused:

I must admit I am now a bit out of touch with the contract scene, so was not refering to specific operators, but rather the operation of Twotters in unfriendly environments.

In the good old days Rossair had a few, MAF had in Angola, the Marion brothers had at least one in Kinshasa and I recall seein a few in West Africa.

What the present status is, I have no idea?:cool:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

10 deg flap and 20 psi brings fuel flow down to less than 200lbs/hr/engine at around 7000' so endurance/loiter capability increases substantially.

Let's see what they eventually come up with...

[V1... Ooops]

]Viking announced today that Twin Otter 400 production will begin. Below is the text of the press release.

Viking Launches Twin Otter Series 400 Aircraft Production Program

Company secures enough firm and option orders to proceed with “Series 400” aircraft production from customers worldwide

Victoria, British Columbia, April 9, 2007……Viking Air Limited, which last year announced that it was considering re-starting production of the 19-passenger DHC-6 Twin Otter, has today confirmed the program will proceed. The company met its required goals: sufficient firm orders, further investment in the company by its majority shareholder Westerkirk Capital, approval by the company board of directors, and the existence of a federal government program that could provide repayable financial assistance for research and development to update the Twin Otter design for operation in the 21st century.

Viking president and CEO, David Curtis said he was encouraged by the recent announcement by the federal government of the Strategic Aerospace and Defence Initiative (SADI) program. Curtis fully expects the Viking Twin Otter program will meet the requirements set out by Industry Canada, which will administer the SADI program.

Viking has also had positive discussions with Export Development Canada (EDC), a federal government crown corporation which can provide a number of financial services for purchasers of new Twin Otters. EDC has expressed a desire to work with Viking and its customers on this newly-launched program.
The company is encouraged by the strong show of confidence from both existing and new Twin Otter operators, allowing it to proceed. Negotiations with several others are also underway adding to the program’s success.
Independent market studies by Conklin & deDecker reflect a ten-year demand for over 400 new aircraft.

One of the lead orders, for five aircraft, was received from Trans Maldavian Airlines (TMA). The airline currently operates 15 Twin Otters built by the original manufacturer, de Havilland Canada.

Loch Ard Otters, LLC, of Palm Beach, Florida has also stepped up for six aircraft firm plus six options. These aircraft will be offered for lease to operators worldwide.

Other launch customers include Air Seychelles for two airplanes, Air Moorea for two and Zimex Aviation of Switzerland for one. Between them, these three airlines currently operate more than 25 ‘heritage’ Twin Otters.
Deliveries of new aircraft will commence within 24 months and the anticipated
production rate will ramp up to fulfill the demand as necessary, according to Curtis. Production airplanes will be built under a slightly-modified original type certificate.

The new aircraft, on wheels, with a standard 19-seat commuter interior and basic instrumentation, sells for US $3.2 million in 2006 dollars, adjusted to the consumer price index at the time of delivery. Full de-ice, float, amphibious and ski landing gear will be offered as aftermarket options. Operators will also option exterior paint as well as avionics systems.

“Today marks a significant milestone for Viking and for the Canadian aerospace industry,” Curtis said. “With today‘s announcement we become the country’s only manufacturer of certificated aircraft west of Ontario by returning to production, after almost 19 years, the world’s best-selling 19-passenger aircraft, one that is respected worldwide for its capability, reliability and safety. We are extremely proud of this moment, this decision and this airplane.”

TMA managing director, Bram Stellar, believes new-production Twin Otters will allow his company to grow significantly. “Finding airplanes is next to impossible, and often requires major refurbishing or rebuilding,” he said. “Our current fleet is well-maintained but will benefit from the addition of new aircraft. The Twin Otter Series 400 will be perfect for our routes.”
Commenting on the move to purchase the new aircraft, Air Seychelles’ chairman and chief executive, Captain David Savy, says: “We have been seeking the replacement of our Twin Otter DHC-6 Series 300 fleet for some time now and we were looking at an aircraft which could meet the peculiarities of our demanding domestic operations. We fly very short sectors, land on rugged, short airstrips and operate in a saline, humid environment. This is a very challenging environment for our technical and maintenance crews.

“The current Twin Otter Series 300 aircraft is an ideal, robust aircraft adapted to inter-island operations of Air Seychelles,” Savy added. “We faced a lot of difficulty in finding a suitable replacement to the Series 300. For some years now we have been urging the manufacturers to re-commence production. Fortunately, Viking Air has taken-up the challenge.”
Loch Ard will be Viking's preferred leasing partner, providing potential operators with an alternative to straight purchase. Loch Ard is owned and managed by a team with extensive experience in transportation asset financing and leasing.

Commenting on its order, Loch Ard Otters president Matthew Lorentzen said, "We selected Viking and the Series 400 because of the unmatched capabilities of the aircraft and the demonstrated capabilities of Viking to manufacture it."

Zimex, whose 12 existing Twin Otters form the backbone of its current fleet, have been operating for 30 years providing reliable, worldwide aircraft support to international organizations and the oil industry in desert and remote areas.

The new Series 400 aircraft, based on the original 19-seat Series 300, will have their major components built in Victoria with aircraft assembly and customer delivery in Calgary, Alberta. It will incorporate a number of improvements based on today’s available technologies. The original Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-27 engines will be replaced by higher output PT6A-34 engines, flat-rated for better performance in all flight regimes. PT6A-35 engines and four blade propellers will be offered as optional equipment.
Twin Otters are flown by such diverse operators as commuter airlines, Antarctic and desert expeditions, inter-island and coastal taxis, para-droppers, airborne research firms and corporate transportation departments.
Viking acquired the type certificate and production rights to the Twin Otter from Bombardier Aerospace in early 2006.

The original de Havilland Twin Otters were built between 1965 and 1988, when 844 were delivered. More than 600 remain in active service today.
Incorporated in 1970, Viking Air Limited has established itself in the aviation community as a high-quality aerospace manufacturer and an aircraft modification, sales, leasing and repair facility.

Viking owns the Type Certificates for the de Havilland Canada DHC-1 Chipmunk, DHC-2 Beaver, DHC-2T Turbo Beaver, DHC-3 Otter, DHC-4, Caribou, DHC-5 Buffalo, DHC-6 Twin Otter and DHC-7 DASH 7 and has been providing all product support functions for the fleet since May 2005. Viking is part of Westerkirk Capital Inc., a Canadian private investment firm with substantial holdings in the hospitality, aviation and real estate sectors.

[spagiola]

Have you heard of ANY other company in Africa flying Twotters??
Airkenya and SafariLink at Nairobi Wilson (Kenya) both operate Twin Otters, as does Regional Air Services in Tanzania.

[Fat Reggie]

I'll be damned. New Twotters. There is a God!

[Shrike200]

Can't keep a good plane down... :ok: :D

[Fat Reggie]

If Viking puts this together right, they are going to sell a pant-load of New Twotters!

[Shrike200]

Nothing special, I'm sure we've all got plenty of Twotter photo's, but I really had fun in this legendary machine.

At the office:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Shrike200/1Jpg.jpg
Early riser:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Shrike200/2Jpg.jpg
End of the day:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Shrike200/3Jpg.jpg
Happy Twotter:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Shrike200/4Jpg.jpg
Those who've been there will know....
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Shrike200/5Jpg.jpg
The usual mudbath:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/Shrike200/6Jpg.jpg

[bush van]

HA good days in the South sudan, When were you based in HKLK

[ColeFace]

Sonair Angola had 9 recenty and CHC (Schriner) has several in several countries.

[anjouan]

ColeFace,

Schreiner went out of existence when it was bought by CHC Helicopters. They do still operate DH6 in Cameroun and Tchad.

[vanman208b]

solenta/airserv/et and plety congo opperators flying twotters in africa

[ColeFace]

anjouan Yes I know the brackets were to indicate that CHC machines are ex Schriener

[122.900]

I've got a fair amount of G1000 time in every thing from the 172 to the Columbia 400. Its seems like the tach on them wants to crap out on the regular, not so much an issue in the 172, but a real pain in the a** in something like the Col. Im not a big fan of relying on them in the dirt and muck. Much rather have something that you can pop in and out in a few min vs needing a computer to find out whats wrong. :}

[Fat Reggie]

Thanks for the Pics. Brings back memories.

[V1... Ooops]

Hi All:

Thought I would bring this post up to date, because Viking Air has now announced that the new Series 400 Twin Otter will be equipped with Honeywell Primus Apex avionics.

The layout and functionality of the new Twin Otter panel will be almost identical to that of the new PC-12 NG, except that some of the components will be upgraded to suit the 19 seat size of the Twin Otter. For example, TAWS A and TCAS 1, as well as support for Mode S EHS with ADS B out via 1090 MHz extended squitter. (Plain language translation = the controller sees not only your altitude and heading, but also your selected altitude, selected heading, lat/long, rate of turn, etc.)

The standard avionics package for commercial operators (public operators) will include four screens, flight director, and dual fitment of all of the following: VHF Nav, VHF Com, DME, Mode S EHS, WAAS capable GPS (full LNAV support), as well as single fitment of TAWS A, TCAS 1, weather radar, CVR and FDR.

There is a very interesting write-up about flying the Primus Apex system in this week's issue of Flight International. You can view it online at this link: New Avionics (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/12/223616/flight-test-new-avionics-are-at-the-heart-of-the-updated-pilatus-pc-12-ng.html).

Primus Apex is a derivitive of the Honeywell Primus Epic system that is currently flying in the Gulfstream 550, Falcon 7x, and Embraer 170/190 series of jets.

Before anyone starts posting questions about whether this type of system is "rugged enough" for bush operations - let me mention that the Barco display screens used in in the Twin Otter are the same display screens as the US Military use in their battle tanks in Iraq. If the screens can perform satisfactorily for 5 years in a desert war, they should be robust enough for a Twin Otter. All the rest of the equipment has been certified to DO-178 Level B mil spec robustness. Honeywell provides a full 3 year warranty on the entire system, and an extended warranty can be purchased if anyone has concerns.

Regards,

Michael

[Malagant]

I love that machine, flew them in Algeria and all over Sudan and Chad and would go and fly them again anyday before the 1900 or 200..yes, 2 SA company`s, Executive Turbine have, I think 3 or 4 of them in Sudan (Rumbek)and somewhere else (Darfur region) and then I know Solenta also had some in Sudan..and most SA company`s always have an engineer at the base full time..long live the old twatter..and by Jimmy, if you lose all the glass stuff you can still fly that thing and get it on the ground..most places we fly it was low level FL65 or 75 85, and VFR only, but some glass would be nice in there..!

[Shrike200]

Does the new one still have a hydraulic pump that goes mad as you turn the battery master on, to scare away the curious Sudanese kiddies? :)

[V1... Ooops]

We've replaced the original pump with a new pump that has better performance. The electric motor is the same. I have not heard the new pump run yet (power-up will be sometime next month, probably). If it is as noisy as the old one, we'll take a look at putting some kind of sound insulation around it.

In other news - there will be no AC system on the Series 400, it will be an all DC aircraft. There will be no switches or circuit breakers of any kind up on the flight compartment roof, everything has been moved down onto the instrument panel (the starter panel over the left pilot windshield remains untouched). All lighting, both internal and external, will be LED. There will be no beta backup system on the Series 400, but the indication of when the propellers are in the ground beta range (two blue lights) will remain.

The standard engines will be PT6A-34s. The flat rating at 620 HP remains - this is an aerodynamic issue, because the fin is only big enough to cope with a 620 HP asymmetry, but the full 620 HP will now be available all the way up to ISA +24°C.

Best of all - the pilots now get their own individual large air gaspers mounted directly in front of them on the outboard sides of the instrument panel, in the same manner as a Dash 8.

[chuks]

Could you jack up the gaspers and slide a Dash 8 underneath them? A Q400 would be nice...

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Dang, that sounds like a nice machine. Hope the pilots still get the overhead fans to smack them on the back of the pip when they lean back. An extra notch on the rudder pedal setting or the seat rail (with bulkhead moved back 2 inches) to accommodate us big guys would also be nice. High density foam cushions in a seat pan without hard edges to counter the dreaded long distance arse bite would not go unwelcomed either.:ok:

[Shrike200]

Ah, I remember those fans with delight - the 'thwakthwakthwak' as you leaned into one and it pummelled your headset, and the 'swish' as a detaching blade flew past your face, followed by the frenzied flapping of the now two-bladed fan shaking itself around. And trying to remember what the beta backup system did.....those were the days! What a fun machine.

[chuks]

Someone must be into S&M. Put him in a wall locker with a space heater turned to "high" and beat it with sticks. Then ask him, "Are we having fun yet?" Zippy the Pinhead flies Twin Otters.

I was asking around and practically nobody here remembers the original cockpit fans. They had three small rounded blades made of hard rubber with sharp edges and would really buzz. If you stuck your fingers into that original fan it could draw blood.

This modern fan looks as if they got it at Pep Boys and it has wimpy little rounded leading edges that must show HSE at work, just one more example of creeping wussyism. Next we should get rubber power levers for clumsy people like me who occasionally nut them climbing into the left seat? (That is usually when I am having a bad day anyway, so that I am thinking about something else when I climb in and, "Ow!" Canadians!)

What about the environmental system on the new Twin Otter? When we last heard about this it was mooted that we might get some sort of integrated air conditioning system, maybe a little ACM (Air Cycle Machine) since there should be plenty of bleed air available with these derated engines.

When it's 50° outside (132° in American money) and 51° inside, yeah, "gaspers" about sums that up, when whatever comes out of them is still going to be like opening the door of a pizza oven unless there's an air con hidden somewhere downstream.

I heard the new airplane's fuselage was complete but it still lacked wings. Has that detail been sorted? What is the roll-out date and when should the first flight be?

[I.R.PIRATE]

Ahh yes the dreaded blue tinged ferry arse.

[Shrike200]

LOL, 'Ow! Canadians!' I, on the other hand, just said 'F***!'

Anyway, it's not a proper Twotter flight unless you're bathed in sweat.

[chuks]

A friend of mine sneaked a peek into a letter his little sister got from a friend, containing the above phrase referring to extracurricular activities but it could fit anyone who's having "fun" in a Twotter, I guess. A paid-up subscriber to "The Spanker's Monthly," I presume?

Yeah, on a real fun day you start out by banging the top of your coconut on those power levers. Then you put on that old David Clark H-10-30, like sticking your head in a sweaty padded vise.

After just a few hours you have this one spike of pain coming from the heavy headset sitting right on the bruised spot on the top of your head and another spike of pain coming up from your butt sat on what feels more like a sandbag than a foam cushion. As the flight drags on, usually into a 30-knot headwind, the pains tend to propagate and merge so that you finally feel like some sort of human kebab. No problem that; with a groundspeed of over 145 knots the trip shall be over in what feels like less than a week.

You know that FAA rule that says you need a watch with a sweep second hand for flight under IFR? For the Twotter you can substitute a calendar.

Then at the end of the day you go to have a shower, enjoying Nigerian water pressure if you are especially lucky, when the thin trickle runs down the drain a distinct shade of grey from all the stack gas that washed in the open window on each start-up.

About the only "fun" I had was showing one of our new Dornier 328 Captains this mysterious Warri Air Strip he had been hearing about but had never managed to spot despite operating out of the new Osubi Air Strip not far away from it. We were climbing out on a track that led us almost over it so that I told him to turn just 5° right and "Look down... now."

"You mean THAT? It looks like a parking lot! You used to fly an airplane off THAT?"

"720 metres long by 18 metres wide, day-in, day-out. And some of you guys were complaining about the runway at NAF Base Port Harcourt because it was only 5 000 feet long? Hah!"

I just landed into a headwind the other day with a light airplane and had to backtrack to the ramp all of, oh, about 30 metres, I guess. A little more breeze and I shall achieve my life's ambition, to just put it right there on the pad like one of these helicopter thingies I keep hearing about. Now that shall be fun!

The main problem I have with the type is that we seem to be paid by the pound, so that flying this thing just doesn't attract mass quantities of drinking vouchers plus being much, much more like work compared to swanning about in a nice, shiny Dornier with IPECO ergonomic seats and one ACM devoted exclusively to your cockpit (and some pretty hot avionics, yes).

[Solid Rust Twotter]

I remember those fans Mr Chuks. Buzzed like an angry wasp if you got your headset against it.

The fun bit probably gets dredged from the fond memories of some poor bastige stuck in an airline cockpit bored out of his tiny little mind from looking out the window while drinking coffee and feeding his face on smoked salmon sandwiches. Those lucky folks only remember the good days flying the Mighty Twotter and completely forget about the sweat, the smell, the heat and the sore butt one got from crouching on the seat while trying to stay awake by sticking an ear into the roof fan. The crotch rot and the ripe aroma from being permanently sweaty is an added bonus. As for the beer vouchers, same old same old for the DC3 - trundling along at low level being paid by the km in a beast that requires constant attention to prevent her trying to frighten you to death. Meanwhile some low time junior hot shot buzzes over at flight level oh-so-cool-and-comfy in a KingAir on his way to an air conditioned hotel room at twice the money you're making at the speeds you drag along. It's like Muhammad Ali's left leg - not right and not fair....:}

Wouldn't change it though....:ok:

[I.R.PIRATE]

Both have their place. But the most fun, you know where that is...:} blood, mud, sweat and beers.

Chuks, almost achieved what you dream about a while back. Short hop after a ferry to refurb station. Wind was doing 35 knots right down the strip, had about 15 mins fuel onboard, and absolutely nothing else. Dragged her in for a full flapper, probably stopping in a fuselage length from touchdown. Resulted in two go-arounds due to the utter confusion it created. :}

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Got out of Buj like that with 35kts on the nose and an empty aircraft with 1.5 hours endurance. Ran 30' and got airborne. Pilot of 737 parked on the ramp didn't even let the tower get a word in before he began gushing that he'd never seen anything like it.:ok:

[Rapide1]

Hi there, great thread...probably know some of you guys..used to work for a certain ZRH company in ZRH,LAD,HME, but on the spanners :ok:
Nothing beats a Twin Otter+a pilot who knows how to use it!

Reliable and easy to maintain, I hope the new ones continue the all round tradition...as said before, the only replacement is another Twin:)

[chuks]

It looks big and butch but the last video of a landing I saw in a Buffalo, the damned thing came apart like a North Korean suit!

What, DeHavilland invented the disposable airplane, use once and discard? No wonder they couldn't sell very many of them. I will take a Twotter over that any day, gay or not. Who needs an airplane that gets you arrested for littering?

As to that other thing, one day I was doing a bit of scud-running, trying to find my way from Miami to Great Inagua during the hurricane season in a light twin equipped with as close to nothing as makes no difference.

I was trying to get a weather update from Nassau Centre when some sky-god came on with his own problems. Yes, it was American Airlines needing to know the baseball score for the World Series!

All I could think was, "Well, we all have our cross to bear, w*nker!" He probably made more money in a week of sitting there drinking coffee at Flight Level 350 than I made in a year of trying to keep my Baron from tying itself in knots in turbulence at 1 500 feet. I was really too busy to ask myself if I was having fun there but the answer probably would have been, "No, not really!"


Let me add something to prevent misunderstanding:

As to backtracking about 30 metres, I did NOT land in that distance! The strip is built from crushed gypsum on a sloping dune so that one side is carved away but the other one and both ends fall away steeply, not the sort of place I want to try putting it right on the very end just for bragging rights. There is a parking area for 4X4s on the uphill side along with a shipping container and then a small concrete pad with four tie-downs that is just big enough to park the aircraft.

I haven't bothered to measure it but with a stiff breeze it is fairly easy to stop just a short distance past the pad and backtrack to park. The strip is 800 metres long, more distance than needed to land and that is all that I need to know about it. I have no interest in landing close to the very end of the strip because a misjudgement would be disastrous, plus as short as I can do it, a Pilatus PC-6 Porter makes that look long. If the wind allows I just land on the end that allows me to roll out, turn off and park rather than to land, stop short and backtrack. It's not as showy but much easier on the equipment.

As if the strip itself were not goofy enough, it is surrounded on all sides by dunes that stick up about 180 metres so that the visual pattern is flown around them. Then there is are ridges running across the centrelines of both runways into the approach planes. I cannot be sure but I think one has grown over the last six months with the strong desert winds. It is either that or else that the solar powered beacon on its face is drifting downhill.

We did a night departure not long ago, when the fairly faint beacons on the high terrain were not visible when I lifted off the relatively brightly-lit strip. It was a distinctly odd feeling to climb on instruments knowing that there was only one heading that was going to be safe for the first 600 feet or so, something that "focused the mind."

The great Eddie Lawson spoke of motorcycle racing as "serious fun," when he was famous for never taking unnecessary risks while also being supremely brave. I think we could use some of his approach for bush flying.

[Sir Osis of the river]

Having flown both, it would be hard to pick the better of the two.

The Twotter never let me down and got me out of more than a few sticky situations. (It got me into a few as well, but best we dont discuss those.)

The Buff, on the other hand, had a horrible habit of breaking quill shafts on the starter and that was that. If you did'nt have a spare, you nightstopped. (And not always where you wanted to.) But it sure carried more and was more comfortable. The APU made a huge difference. It was easier to load and cooler in the hot weather.

Having said all that, I think the Twotter rules, and am glad it is back in production.

Solid Rust, You still driving one?

[V1... Ooops]

Ah, I remember those fans with delight -

The flight compartment roof fans have been deleted from the Series 400. Because gaspers have been fitted to the instrument panel (with their own dedicated air supply), and the windshield defrost system has been considerably improved, the roof fans are no longer necessary.

A stand-alone, vapour cycle air conditioner will be available as an option. We looked long and hard at putting an air cycle machine in the 400, but in the end, decided not to. It would have worked just fine in flight, when there was lots of bleed air available, but would not have performed well on the ground. PT6A engines have very little bleed air available at idle - both the flow rate and the pressure are very low when the aircraft is on the ground. The vapour cycle machine is a better choice for ground cooling, and the greatest need for cooling is when you are on the ground, not when you are in flight.

We have made improvements to the heating and ventilation system of the aircraft that will considerably increase the flow of air through the flight compartment and cabin once the aircraft is in flight. This will result in a much more rapid cool-down of a heat soaked aircraft following takeoff.

The guy who is responsible for flight compartment design and function (me) has spent more than enough time in all the delightful vacation spots of the world (Hassi, Loki, etc.) to know exactly what the concerns are.

[chuks]

So we are back to the status quo ante, with a somewhat heavy (ungood) and expensive (double plus ungood) vapour cycle air conditioner as an option that won't typically be fitted or I miss my guess.

If it isn't a secret, will the first customer aircraft have an air conditioner, then? (I need to know because I have a bet on this one!) In fact, a little bird told me it was going to have -27 engines for commonality but perhaps that was a wind-up.

I remember when a regional airline I was with took delivery of a Twin Otter that had been operated by Harrah's Casino to ferry people to some remote southwestern U.S. location, so that it had the high-flotation gear and a very nice air conditioner. Of course the high-flotation gear came off, since we were operating out of secondary U.S. airports but so did the air conditioner. Given that we were based in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
I found this very surprising, especially because of all the wonderful blah-blah in our brochures about the level of comfort that was on offer but then I was new to the game.

Well, we couldn't have one heavy airplane and two light ones; that would play hell with dispatching.

So there we were wearing black broadcloth wool airline uniforms in the summertime Carolinas to keep up the image while the reality was a flying steambath. Oh, yes, I learned about flying from that! On the other hand, I once did get a snappy salute from a young airman even greener than I was, at our dual military/civilian base. I must have looked like something from the Navy in my double-breasted black wool jacket when everyone else was in short sleeves.

In fact, several times now I have noticed that the air con is the first thing to go when a new machine joins the fleet. I guess passengers just do not expect anything like modern standards of comfort in the Twin Otter, since it's just basic transportation that only needs to be faster than a speeding Land Cruiser with everything else but seats being optional, just like the air conditioner.

I am sure you see the way my mind is working here; I wanted something buried deep in the bowels of the beast that no bean-counter could order removed to save money and increase available load. I guess I must have been out in the sun with my hat off again.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Still flying them, Mr River. Did we run into each other in Loki?

Are you quite sure it's not the lack of oxygen at the levels at which the Mighty Twotter cruises, rather than being out in the sun without your hat Mr Chuks...?:}

Great stuff, keep 'em coming. Enough here for a book soon should anyone have the urge to write it.:ok:

[Sir Osis of the river]

Lo SRT,

No twas not LOki, other parts of darkest Africa.

A book sounds like a great idea. No I dea who will write it, but a certain Kenyan aviator of considerable artistic ability;) would be my choice to illustrate it. Wonder if "huge" would be up for it?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Good plan. The scruffy bugger could no doubt put together something of value from all the tales told here. A cooperative venture with Mr Chuks would produce an even better volume I believe.:ok:

[V1... Ooops]

...with a somewhat heavy (ungood) and expensive (double plus ungood) vapour cycle air conditioner

I think you are being a bit presumptive, perhaps for the sake of writing dramatic and witty posts.

The vapour cycle air conditioner is neither heavy nor is it expensive.

The design objective of the vapour cycle air conditioner is to cool the aircraft on the ground. That is when cooling is needed. No air cycle machine currently available will do a satisfactory job of cooling the cabin on the ground, not for any reason related to the air cycle machine, but because of the efficiency of the PT6A engines - the compressor section of this engine just doesn't produce enough surplus air at idle speed - or at any reasonable ground operations speed - to support an air cycle machine. In flight, yes, but on ground, no.

You mentioned that you "have noticed that the air con is the first thing to go when a new machine joins the fleet." This may be true when a customer purchases a used aircraft and has no need for this system, but it is unlikely that new aircraft purchasers will order factory installed air conditioning and then remove it when they take delivery of the aircraft.

Michael

[V1... Ooops]

Here's a link to the press release about the Honeywell Primus Apex avionics suite:

Viking Signs on with Honeywell “Primus Apex” Avionics Suite As Standard Equipment on the New Twin Otter Series 400 (http://www.vikingair.com/content.aspx?id=1642)

...and here's a link to a flight test review of the exact same avionics suite, published in this week's issue of Flight International:

New avionics are at the heart of the updated Pilatus PC-12 NG (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/12/223616/flight-test-new-avionics-are-at-the-heart-of-the-updated-pilatus-pc-12-ng.html)

This is what the suite looks like when installed in a PC-12. The layout will be very similar in the Twin Otter - a 'tactical' PFD for each pilot on either side, and two stacked 'strategic' MFDs in the middle that display information that is shared during two crew operations. This layout is standard for all Apex installations (all airframes).

Honeywell Primus Apex
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=22716

[chuks]

Hey, you know the life, sat in a little tin box set rockin' by those desert winds. What else have I got to do here but have a few laughs about the life?

Michael, you mock me, which is only fair, actually. No, I wasn't suggesting that someone is going to order the new 400 series with an air-conditioner only to rip it out; they probably won't order it at all! Why I have this idea:

1. Is the airplane going to be lighter and cheaper with or without an air conditioner?

2. Does the Accounts Section already have an air conditioner for their office?

3. Why did the Lord God give pilots sweat glands in the first place? If they had brains instead wouldn't they be working in the nice, air conditioned Accounts Section?

Well, we can quickly find out upon whom the joke is being played if you just tell us whether the first customer aircraft shall have an air conditioner or not. I think I know the answer to this one without even asking even though, yes, I am being presumptuous again.

I would love to be proved wrong on this presumption but I think I know how a beancounter thinks by now.

I cannot remember off the top of my head what the system weighed in the 300-series airplanes but it was not all that heavy, plus it was free in the sense that it was already in there when we bought the aircraft. As I wrote, though, it came out first thing, just for the sake of the extra payload. One operation was in the Carolinas and the other was in Nigeria, both places being miserably hot and humid at times but the beancounters were very strict with us even though we were not doing bush flying. In fact, the Carolinas operation had us up against Piedmont Airlines, as was, when they were flying Boeing 737-200s along the same primary route between Myrtle Beach and Charlotte.

Choosing a Twin Otter over a 737 is simple, if you are seriously retarded! We used to say, "Shake 'em and bake 'em!" Customer service... what is that?

I used to fly fairly often with an ex-Viet Nam war hero. He had a face like a road map where he'd gone through the plexiglass at least once crashing a Huey, when he said he'd written off three of them. I think he shook something loose because he had the Silver Star but also a totally warped sense of humour, so that every time it was my leg he would come up on the intercom with, "We are all going to die!" Thanks, I really needed that!

I had a passenger, not long ago, tell me totally seriously that there was something wrong with the air conditioner, that the cabin was far too hot! (I guess he really hadn't noticed how I looked as if I had just stepped out of the shower fully dressed.)

I had to explain to him that, no, there was no problem with the air conditioner per se since there was nothing behind those little ducts he had been twiddling but a big fan so that if it was 50° outside then it was going to be at least 50° inside. He just looked at me as if to say, "If this is a joke then it isn't funny!" What, I personally invented the laws of physics, just to torment him?

No, one of those little switches in the cockpit must engage the "Super-cool-omatic" function, like "Whisper Mode" for that supersonic helicopter but I was just too lazy to switch it on.

Do some of you guys really want to do a book? Why not? Let's do an exposé of this business. I got into it for fun and adventure and lots of encounters with beautiful women who were mad to have sex with a sky-god and it turns out just to be about money and not much of that either! I think people should be told about this so that we can get the sympathy we deserve for not having worked harder at school so that we could work in Accounts.

[V1... Ooops]

We're still working on refinements to the vapor cycle air conditioning system, and because of that, I can't really provide definitive information about it. But, I can give you some perspective...

The original DH implementation of air conditioning put the compressor / condenser under the cabin floor, just behind the last fuel cell (more or less abeam the main cabin door), and it was not the most effective air conditioning system in the world. It was also handicapped by a fairly long and circuitous duct that delivered the cooled air to the cabin, and wow, it was heavy.

Later implementations of vapor cycle air conditioning (by STC) put the compressor / condenser / evaporator and fan on the baggage compartment rear extension shelf, and delivered the cooled air via a short and straight duct that ran over top of the main baggage compartment and entered the cabin at the top of the aft cabin bulkhead. These systems were more efficient, and weighed less because they had fewer components.

If you have a look at the photo above that shows what the instrument panel will look like, you will see that there has been quite a significant upgrade done there - the instrument panel and avionics represent the best product that we can provide to our customers as of 2008. We intend to pursue the same strategy with the optional vapor cycle air conditioner - give our customers the best product available to us in 2008. That implies that the air conditioner will be efficient, lightweight, and not particularly expensive. I mean, heck, an air conditioner only costs a couple of thousand dollars on a car, it's not like it's going to have a six figure price tag on it when you stuff one in a Twin Otter. Obviously it has to be much larger capacity than a car system due to the cabin volume, and it has to be better engineered and more carefully tested because it is being used in an aircraft, but it won't be prohibitively expensive.

The priorities of aircraft operators have changed greatly over the years. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, air conditioning wasn't much of a priority. Heck, IFE wasn't even a priority in Boeing products back then. Today, operators put a higher priority on cabin comfort, regardless of aircraft size. My guess is that air conditioning will likely be a popular option with warm climate customers. The primary objection to the system in the past was weight, not system cost, which is proved by your comment that operators would remove a system that came free with a used aircraft. If we can get the system weight down to the point that it really doesn't impact payload that much, then I suspect that most warm-climate customers will elect to have it fitted to their aircraft.

The other thing we all have to keep in mind is that air conditioning is of no value whatsoever to operators based in regions such as Europe (north of the Alps / Pyrenees) or Canada. Because of this, it makes no sense for us to include air conditioning as basic to the aircraft.

[ARENDIII]

Dont worry chucks-we fly C130's and when the cooling turbine packs up-I ground the aircraft-Period.
ArendIII.

[ARENDIII]

Sure chucks-as long as it does not have any accountants in it.
We may not make any money-but I sure as hell am more impressed with what I have achieved in life than those bean counters.
ArendIII.

[ARENDIII]

Sorry-Chuks misspelt

[chuks]

I wonder if there is some marketing mentality at work that figures a hard-working bush plane just doesn't need such a comfort system as an air conditioner.

A funny thing with the Dornier was that we would be moaning when the cockpit got up to 25°! Somehow that was worse than being in the Twin Otter at 30° or more, perhaps because you were relating it to the normally cool temperatures you had come to expect.

If you develop some cooling system that cannot overpower the desert sun (a near-impossibility) then you might have very unhappy customers because of a "too-warm" cabin even though it's 25° inside and 50° outside.

I take your point there about the old system. I remember seeing the stuff they ripped out, the system that lived under the floor about by the main door on the machine we bought from Harrah's. By the time the cool air made it all the way to the front of the cabin it really wasn't much to brag about anyway. We ran the system for a little while before all the trouble integrating one heavy airplane into a program with two light ones drove Dispatch nuts, plus it was not really powerful enough for summer in the Carolinas.

The one in Nigeria came out right away because we were always running our trips at MTOM. Every pound counted there.


I would suggest keeping those little fans in the cockpit, at least as an option. It's a long way from the panel to your face, where the fan (Zizz! Ouch!) is right there, which I find oddly comforting if not exactly "fun."

When is the roll-out?

[V1... Ooops]

..we fly C130's and when the cooling turbine packs up-I ground the aircraft-Period

What a wussy airplane. :) If it gets too hot in a Twin Otter, I just open then window while I am flying along.

[chuks]

Well, at least I can hold my head up when it comes to hangar flying. The cross-winds get stronger, the strips get shorter, the weather gets worse... you can use the standard correction factor of .7 there, I guess. There is one thing though: I really am a hot pilot and I have the sweat-stained baseball cap to prove it! Anyone even has to ask, at least there is that.

Michael, I don't know if the beancounters had that system when you were with Air Cuckoo Clock but I have to affix each and every receipt to an A4 sheet for scrutiny when I claim expenses.

Last time there was a ticket for the S-Bahn for CHF 2.90 but I put in for that anyway. "One Man Against the System" or "Gregor Samsa, Bush Pilot" is how I think of this and I have a secret weapon, laughing to myself about what Mr Big Time Jet Pilot has come to, bowing before the beancounters. I got into aviation for THIS?

You know in Germany nowadays they have a whole system developed to exploit that basic human need to take a pee when travelling on the Autobahn. Used to be you just plinked 50 Pfennigs onto that little white saucer on the table by the door while some glum Frau in white kept watch. (What do they call that profession anyway, Autobahnpinkelbudewachfrau?)

There was just too much of a human element involved for the fun-loving Germans to continue with that so that they have developed an automated system with turnstiles. You put in 50 euro cents (cleverly doubling the cost) and get a ticket as you go through a turnstile. Afterwards you can use the ticket for part-payment on a cup of coffee that makes you want to pee, when the whole process repeats itself like some hellish feedback loop. Some older people with weak kidneys are there for hours until they run out of small change; someone needs to do something about this system of exploitation!

Anyway, I found one of these little pee chits among my papers. Do you think anyone would notice if I shoved it in there on the next A4 sheet? We could make bets on this.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Knowing bean counters, the A/C will make it into very few of the new Twotters. Reckon we'll just have to continue reeking gently up front as the sweat drips off our noses and onto the nav log/manifest.

If they could get away with it I'm sure the bean counters would have us fly in our underwear and force us to take the Mugabes to the pool before every flight. At least they haven't got to the point of having the engineers hold us down and stick a greasy finger down our throats to relieve us of our breakfast yet.....

[9-er]

Really looking forward to seeing what the finished product will look like, inside and out! Thumbs up to Viking for reviving a truly magnificent machine:ok:.

[ARENDIII]

Good evening Sky God,
Nice to hear from you again,
Tell these people to get a fan.
ArendIII