Stapleford vs. Atlantic

[philltowns]

I think my head may very well explode tonight!

I'm soon to embark on my commercial training, and have whittled my options down to two schools, but am having a really hard time choosing between them.

I already have my ATPL theory done, PPL, night, and more than enough hours from glider-towing to start the CPL.

The first option is Stapleford Flight Centre. They offer the CPL and MER on Pipers followed by the IR on the DA42, and a brand new MCC course. The location is close to home (London), so I could hop on the tube to go and see friends and my partner occasionally. The accommodation is very nice and the price is good. The reviews of SFC here on PPRuNe have been fantastic.

My second option is Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry. They offer a combined CPL/ME course on Pipers, but also with an option to do it on the DA40/DA42. Again, the IR is on the DA42 and there is a well-established MCC. The accommodation seems to be ok, and the price is not much different to SFC. PPRuNe reviews of AFT are fairly good.

I have visited both and they seem to be very professional, with AFT slightly having the edge in that area. However, I have a history with the Atlantic group which does not warm me to them, although I have tried to put that to the back of my mind when going through this, as the flight school did not play a major part in my past with the group. I can’t help but feel that some of that would be brought back to the surface were I to study there, which I don’t need.

The AFT option to combine the CPL and MER is appealing, as it would give me a little extra time on the DA42, an aircraft I am fond of. I have read and re-read the debate on Glass vs. Clockwork, but that mostly covers the IR part of the training, so I'd be interested to hear whether a glass cockpit CPL would have any major benefits over a clockwork one, or vice versa, taking into account that I will be doing my IR on a DA42 anyway, so will get glass experience. Even someone at AFT mentioned that it would be useful to have the experience on dials.

If I decide to train on clockwork for the CPL, then Stapleford would be my decision - I don’t see any major advantage of AFT over SFC for a CPL on Pipers. It’s just whether or not the DA40 would be more beneficial than a PA28, or whether the experience of the PA28/28R/34 would be better. I’ve flown Piper’s very little (apart from a Cub and Pawnee when glider-towing), and did my PPL and subsequent training on a C150 and C152 taildragger respectively. I'm not gagging to get into the big jets straight away, and would be just as happy buzzing around flying single-pilot night IFR.

Another spanner in the works is that I have yet to complete my 300nm cross-country flight. AFT have said I can do this in the middle of my CPL after I’ve had some CPL level nav-instruction. SFC have suggested I should do it beforehand. My hour-building was from glider-towing, so was hardly structured. Thoughts?

Any advice appreciated, especially if you have been in a similar position.

Cheers

PT

[oliver_p]

did my cpl + ir conversion with AFT and also my MCC was performed with them.

TOP instructors and in general i think the solution is VERY GOOD.

don't think twice, go pass and fly.

[Grasscarp]

Have experience of both. Your location would favour Stapleford, so I would advise you to go with them.

[Life's a Beech]

I wouldn't even consider either, for one reason: neither operate from a field with CAA test centre. In both cases most of your training will not be on the routes you are likely to fly for your test. Unless there is a really compelling reason to choose otherwise, I would only look at Bristol, Bournemouth, Cranfield, I think Oxford, where you will fly the test from your base airport. It still leaves a very broad range of schools, with great instructors.

[BlueRobin]

Ciao Oliver! Come stai? :) You only had to do 15 hours with them and they fitted you in pretty well as I recall.

*You* choose if you want to combine the CPL and MEP, not the school. AFT I know will do whatever you specify.

You have a desire for "clockwork"? IIRC AFT charge about £350 dual for a Seminole? They only have one avgas-twin and this can get oversubscribed with Atlantique/Atlantic cadets. Others charge less for the larger Seneca. Those costs rack up.

As for the which school, choose whoever is the most organised assuming all other factors are equal. By the way, on this score I am going elsewhere ;)

The 300nm QXC, can you still do VFR Nav? If so there shouldn't be a problem doing it beforehand.

[Life's a Beech]

littco

That is not the view of my friend who did train there. He wanted to fly at least once out of Cranfield, but they wouldn't let him, even though he offered to pay more!

Of course you should be able to fly any route. I do so in my job, but that is huge pressure and you're not allowed to do so commercially without 700 hours and 40 hours P1 multi on instruments. The IR is only a 50-hour course.

The fact that you only ever fly to one place in training is never going to help that in any case - Southend might have everything required but it is not very varied. The route out of Cranfield is very odd in as well from what I hear, and it is a little bit of extra pressure on the test. That is the last thing you want. You certainly can't say "it doesn't make any difference"!

That is without mentioning all the problems people are having with Thielert engines! To have only one aircraft reliable enough for test is certainly a matter for concern.

[Token Bird]

neither operate from a field with CAA test centre. In both cases most of your training will not be on the routes you are likely to fly for your test
Not true in the case of AFT, as far as I'm aware. I spent a lot of time at AFT and did my training there. The examiners always came to us, not the other way round. So, the routes we did on our training were the same ones we tested on.

TB

[oliver_p]

ciaoo! :-) and "viva what you know" :-)

[Floppy Link]

I would only look at Bristol, Bournemouth, Cranfield, I think Oxford, where you will fly the test from your base airport

Plus Perth, but probably a wee bit too far away for you...

[Penworth]

I had a good experience doing my training at AFT (albeit on the Seminole rather than the DA42). The only problem was aircraft availability, as at the time they only had 1 twin. And like Token Bird says, Coventry is a test airfield (or at least was when I was there 2 years ago).

PW

[rusponge]

Interesting post......southend and Atlantic ...well I can’t post on.

The glass and mouse driven stuff.....who cares!!!! what’s the difference between people who have got jobs and people who have not?????? A very small amount...the cost...well its small in comparison.

People ask me regularly about glass and mouse driven stuff…well its a personal opinion! And it remains that to the day. Airlines have not made a preferred choice as of yet. Lets face it type rating courses for a 340 to a dash 8 have not changed because of the onset of this glass woo hoo… cockpit in the training environment!

CAA test IRT Routes – some people who have replied have NO idea. The CAA will happily accommodate (which in reason) a remote test centre given the number of candidates on the stated day. This is fact, and thus enables the candidate to have first hand experience of the routes likely for the test. BUT a correct FTO will not train just for the IRT and it is known for an IRE to operate a round robin test routes. Again fact!

The CFD departure…. Any good instructor will and should have covered all the eventualities, in briefings and then in the simulator and further enforced in the aircraft, where possible. It’s not that hard, considering the departures a newly trained F/O will encounter down route with a commercial airline!!!!!!!!!!! CFD is a piece of cake given certain SIDs! Again FACT!

My 10p worth


Look left you will see me... book a trail flight and……

[EGCC4284]

I did my CPL test out of Liverpool and IR test out of Leeds.