Civvy Pilots at AEF's?

[Ops and Mops]

Hi all,

I know there have been rumours recently that the RAF were again looking at pulling in civvy qualified pilots (not previously QSP's) to fly Air Cadets at AEF's.

Have any AEF's actually recruited any such pilots? If so, what experience requirements are the RAF using to select, and have they been through a CFS "hoop" in the same way OC 12 AEF had to many years ago?

[Champagne Anyone?]

This subject was covered fairly recently.

Try the search facility.

[Ops and Mops]

I have done, hence the question. Nothing generated on this topic under AEF or Air Experience Flight in the Military Aircrew Forum.

I do recall the previous thread, however I do not recall anyone actually having been recruited, or how the RAF were going to administer the programme.

Any further advance on the standard "Use the search" gaff? :rolleyes:

[Roland Pulfrew]

Current requirement to be a pilot on an AEF is to be or have been a QSP. Nothing else will do I am afraid.

[Elmlea]

I wouldn't have thought they'd look at changing the rules unless we were desperately, desperately short. Are we?

My local AEFs run a good trade with all the retirees and those PVRing, so at the last look there was a waiting list!

[Wholigan]

There are waiting lists on most AEFs and I have not heard anything about recruiting civvies. But then the fact that I have heard nothing probably means very little! ;) :E

[Ivor Fynn]

Rog,
It's hardly surprising that there are waiting lists, It has taken 10 Months so far for my paperwork to be processed by the faceless civil servants.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Nightmare

Ivor Fynn

[Flik Roll]

Some AEFs don't have waiting lists but are at the opposite end of the spectrum and really need pilots (Location, location, location!)

[JTIDS]

Does any one have a good contact number for the AEF at Colerne?
Never seem to get through when I use the number the MOD operator gives me...

[StopStart]

Colerne eh? Frightful bunch of cowboys I heard. And they keep flying over my garden.

Try a few up from your post.....

[Wholigan]

You had the chance Top Tart!! You just never took it up. Lost yer nerve I guess! :E ;)

JTIDS - I've sent you a PM.

[StopStart]

Knew you'd be lurking there somewhere!

Thanks for the chance though - sadly her Maj decided my time would be better spent out East. Currently revelling in the excitement of being in the UK for more than three weeks!

:ok:

PS. You still fly over my garden.....to whom should I direct my complaints?? :}

[geniculate]

Colerne eh? Frightful bunch of cowboys I heard. And they keep flying over my garden.

So its you who keeps complaining then!

[will fly for food 06]

QSP not true im afraid. Winged holding officers have been flying AEF for 2 years.

[aluminium persuader]

The CO of 12(?) AEF then at Edinburgh, 1992-5 ish I don't think was ex-mil at all. IIRC he was the only VR pilot at the time.

[BEagle]

Wholi', knowing Stoppers' contempt for aeros (or 'aerobation' as he used to call it), it doesn't surprise me that he turned down the chance of abusing small children in Das Teutor!

Actually, before he puts any Hawaiian shirt photos on the thread, I hasten to add that actually he was quite good at aeros!

[MadAxeMan]

wfff06,

Winged holding officers have been doing the AEF thing for much longer than 2 years, I remember at least 2 at 8 AEF in 1992. Moreover, surely if they have 'Wings' then they are QSPs, just not necessarily front-line.

[Wholigan]

Actually, you are pretty much all correct in one way or another.

Holding officers used to fly with AEFs a long time ago. Then the rules changed such that you had to have held and retained Service wings and have at least 500 hours first pilot to qualify to fly cadets.

The holds got longer and there were more people in the system and so pragmatism came to the rescue of common sense and holding officers were allowed to hold with AEFs and fly cadets if they had gained a high average grade on their "wings" course. They also have to be approved by Gp Capt Flying Training (unless his post title has changed again) and also by OC 1 EFTS.

There was (and still is) one person flying cadets who did not have military wings. He is the exception that proves the rule, and I am unaware of any new plans to relax the requirements. If I hear of any changes I'll let you know.

[London Mil]

Dull question time. Why do you have to be a QSP wth xxx hrs to fly a cadet in a Grob tutor but any shag with a PPL can fly the same cadet in a Grob motor glider? Seems like a bit of overkill to me.

[BEagle]

Or the paradox where a 17 year old Space Cadet with a PPL could take a QSP flying in a civil Grob, but the QSP couldn't take the cadet flying in a military Grob.......:rolleyes:!

Incidentally, a pilot with 'wings' is not a QSP until he/she has attained CR status. (Although for PPL issue, 'wings' are sufficient).

[abbotyobs]

Hi,
Anyone have a contact for the AEF at Benson, please pm if poss.
I am just to start the dreaded groundtour nearby.
Thanks

[Wholigan]

PS. You still fly over my garden.....to whom should I direct my complaints??

The only place that complaints are heard is in the bar, so see you there whenever you wish to make a formal complaint:ok: !

[EnigmAviation]

Abbytobs,

Read your PM

[EnigmAviation]

Oops - sorry it should have been abbotyobs read your PM!!:)

[will fly for food 06]

I think it was a good idea to relax the QSP and hour requirements for AEF flying. If the holding officer has the required flying skills then its a great PR tool for the cadets to see a young pilot flying them.

[Single Spey]

but any shag with a PPL can fly the same cadet in a Grob motor glider


Not true. Any 'shag' with a PPL can fly any passenger in any aircraft for which he holds the appropriate rating etc. This could include a motor glider. He cannot fly a young person 'as a cadet on duty'.

The 'shags' you refer to who fly air cadets in the Air Cadet motor gliders are pilots qualified in accordance with the appropriate military regulations, administered and standardised by Air Cadet Central Gliding School and CFS.

Not all PPLs make the grade in the Air Cadet Organisation for the award of the appropriate qualification.

London Mil, didn't you qualify? ;)

[StopStart]

The bar you say? I guess a formal complaint could get pretty expensive... Best I see you there then! ;)

[Wholigan]

Actually Stoppers, I'm going to be in "your" bar on the 30th. Dorset & Wilts Wing Air Training Corps annual din-dins.

[StopStart]

Best I swing by and ensure that the very highest standards are maintained then.....:eek:

[butlerv1]

two are at Glasgow AEF,trained by GUAS QFI and tested by CFS

[PhoenixDaCat]

Rumour has it that in the not too distant future there will be just 3 "super" AEFs, and that the locations of 2 of the 3 has already been decided.

[Ops and Mops]

butlerv1
Ah! As suspected. I guess they must also be RAFVR(T)?

It would be interesting to hear how GUAS/4 AEF managed to get dispensation to train these guys up when the feeling on the thread is that the criteria remains QSP/ex QSP and "winged" holding officers all the way.

I guess they must be pretty experienced CPL/ATPL holders with an FI rating to have even been considered?

Feel free to PM if you would rather continue the discussion in private!
:ok:

[Roland Pulfrew]

WFFF

I think it was a good idea to relax the QSP and hour requirements for AEF flying

They haven't relaxed the QSP bit. Only holding officers who have been awarded their wings are eligible to "hold" on a UAS and fly cadets. Those who have just finished EFT (on the Tutor) are not eligible to fly cadets as they do not have their wings.

[London Mil]

SS, believe me, I've seen some very ropey 'shags' flying air cadet. I probably still wouldn't make the grade.:sad: