U.K. Passport Question

[AMM626]

When travelling to certain countries it would seem you are required to have a minimum of 6 months remaining on your passport at the time of departure from that country.

Can anyone advise me if this applies to Holland?

Off to Amsterdam at the start of May but my passport expires in September, leaving only 5 months.

Anyone know if it will be ok, or should I plan a trip to Peterborough in the near future???

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[AMM626]

Many thanks for a swift reply:ok:

[PaperTiger]

When travelling to certain countries it would seem you are required to have a minimum of 6 months remaining on your passport at the time of departure from that country.More Kafka-esque bureaucratic nonsense :mad: Is it or is it not an expiry date on the passport ? Why do they need a pre-expiry expiry date too ? Clowns.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1229.html

[BackPacker]

I'm not an expert on this, but how about that a tourist/business visa (or tourist/business visa waiver) is only valid for six months, and they want to make sure the visa or visa waiver expires before the passport does? In other words, you don't become stuck in the host country with a valid visa but an invalid passport, and thus not able to travel home? (I guess the visa would automatically become invalid if the passport expires, but still...)

[Phil_R]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it's possible to enter your home country (or perhaps just the UK, which is my home country) without a passport, if you're a citizen. I know one person who got in on his driving licence, having sensibly phoned ahead to check the situation.

Phil

[PAXboy]

It depends upon your passport. If you are an EU citizen and are visiting and EU country - it is not an issue. But if you have a third world passport and are visiting the EU, then the three or six month exclusion is becoming common.

As well as the Visa problem, mentioned above, they are worried that you will deliberately overstay and then have an invalid passport.

[ZFT]

There is also another quirk to be aware off. Some countries also insist on 2 blank pages within the passport in addition to the 6 months requirement.

[Hartington]

Had my (UK) passport stolen in Milan recently (got it back before travel but that's another story). Phoned UK embassy who were very helpful and believed that with a word in the "right" ear with the airline it would be possible for me to travel. However, they did point out that the airline would be within their rights to refuse to carry me until I had obtained an emergency passport because of the UK law that says the airline is fined for someone arriving in the UK without valid documentation (and the non photo driving licence I still have doesn't count).

[SXB]

In fact you don't even need a passport to enter Holland, just a national identity card will do, depending on your nationality of course. If you're a UK citizen you won't have such a card....

As for loss of passport there are occasions when, as a Brit without an ID card, you can enter the UK without a passport but it needs to be cleared in advance and it also depends on the rules of the departure country, try leaving Russia with a driving license and see how far you get....

If you lose your passport your embassy or consulate should be your first port of call, if necessary they can issue a 'use one time' passport to get you home, they can also help if you find yourself in a country with a visa regime and, like Russia, a visa registration regime.

[BackPacker]

The UK is NOT in the Schengen treaty, so I don't think you'd be able to enter Holland (or any other Schengen country for that matter) without a UK passport.

You don't need a visa though.

[flybywire]

The UK is NOT in the Schengen treaty, so I don't think you'd be able to enter Holland (or any other Schengen country for that matter) without a UK passport.

BackPacker for UK citizens you are correct you need a passport, as you donot have any other documents over here that have the same validity.

However SXB is correct, many EU countries, such as Italy and France for example, issue their citizens with an Identity Card (completely different from the ID cards that the UK government wants to impose over here) which is a proper document and is valid for travel around Europe, and that's what I always use to go to Europe from here, whether I visit a Schengen or not Schengen country, and what I use to get back too.:}

You need a UK passport to enter Holland however the 6months remaining on your passport (and sometimes the 2 blank pages) only applies to those countries who specifically ask for it (like USA, middle east countries, caribbeans etc) so better be informed well in advance. I am sure Holland isn't one of them as travel within Europe with a EU passport nowadays is pretty much unrestricted.

[lexxity]

(I guess the visa would automatically become invalid if the passport expires, but still...)

A visa can remain valid eventhough the passport it is in has expired. It's very common to see an old passport and a new one stuck together as a visa has not expired.

[IB4138]

Not quite correct, regarding Brits having no other valid documents than a UK passport.

Being a Spanish resident, I have a Spanish ID card, which is valid around Europe, even though I have a UK passport.

[BackPacker]

I stand corrected. I thought the ID card thing was only valid within Schengen. But apparently it works in some countries outside Schengen too.

[flybywire]

IB4138 let me phrase it better then: British citizens who do not have any other foreign documents like spanish/italian/french (and so on) ID cards.

[SXB]

FBW
Just to clarify even further most of the 'ID Cards' carried by Brits living in other EU countries are actually residence permits and they aren't valid forms of ID and are not supposed to be used for crossing borders, in practice they look the same though and are commonly used for both ID and border crossings.

Most holders of these cards are not aware of the difference and think they are ID cards, the give away is normally the ministry of issue, being different to the one that issues normal ID cards. In most countries ID cards are issued only to those who would also be eligible for a passport, everyone else gets something a little different from the Ministry for Foreign Affairs.

[Final 3 Greens]

SXB

Interesting point.

I am a UK citizen living in Malta and hold a Maltese ID card.

It has the words "Karta Ta' L-Identita" (Identity Card) clearly printed on the front and is issued by the Commissioner for Police per the ID cards issued to Maltese citizens.

The only differentiator I can find is that the number contains the letter A as a suffix, which designates that it is an ID card issued to an alien.

When I use it to travel around Europe and Scandinavia, I get some interesting reactions from immigration officers...

France (many uses) - no problem, its an ID card issued by an EU state, within its validity period and the photo matches you

Finland (on 1 of 2 uses) - never seen one of those before, it looks fine, but do you mind if I show it to my colleagues so that they can recognise one next time? - 5 minute wait whilst card is passed around several booths and then returned with thanks

Germany - no problem, per France

Belgium - no problem per France

Switzerland - immediate reaction is not valid but unsure, I offer to show passport instead, but officer calls manager to clarify as it is important to him to know. Manager says its fine since May 2004 (date of EU accession)

UK - twice - it's a residents card, not valid as a travel document. When I point out that it says identity card on the front and produce my Maltese residence permit - which is in the form of a certificate, not card and is in English, one UK officers said that she does not speak Maltese and cannot understand the words on the front of the card. I could have been a prat and insisted that they called a translator, but life is too short. The other just refused to accept that a foreign government could issue an ID card to a UK citizen.

I now use my UK passport to avoid the hassle, although it is a shame to have to carry a relatively bulky and fragile document instead of a document the same size as a credit card.

The 2nd UK authorities may be correct in their view (I have not read the EU law at a small print level, if indeed it exists at that fine a level, in whether a 2nd EU state can validly issue an ID card to the citizen of another state), but it is interesting that they are the only border control authority who have taken such a strong view.

[SXB]

F3G
Mine is clearly just a residence permit, being labelled 'Titre de Séjour Spécial' and is issued by the Ministère des Affaires Etrangéres though it does look like an ID and I do use it as such. The only place where I've had a problem with border crossings is Switzerland, obviously most of them speak French so they know what it is.

I have asked about a national ID card and the answer has been along the lines of - you're an EU national and it's up to your own government to issue an ID card, you have a residence permit and this is to be used in conjunction with your passport/nationally issued ID card. Though I am married to a Fench national and have lived here for a number of years and could receive French citizenship if I wanted, though as much as I like the French I've no desire to become one of them:-)

Interestingly EU citizens are no longer obliged to obtain residence permits in France (I think the normal one is called a Carte de Séjour, mine being different because it also confirms my diplomatic status) and many do not but it's difficult to exist in France without something official looking issued by the government, for example, without one, you would find it difficult to obtain a loan or mortgage....

[flybywire]

SXB and F3G you both raise very interesting points!

One thing I do not understand though, is why would a EU citizen need a residence permit in another EU country? Schengen or not Schengen....I definitely do not have and do not need a residence permit to stay in the UK :confused:

My Italian ID card was enough to let me in the country, and let me live here for the last 4 years! And if we (my BA fleet) didn't fly to some countries such as Algeria, the US and the Caribbeans technically I wouldn't even need a passport to do my job! My ID card would be enough. Of course there's always the chance you end up landing somewhere else and that's why I carry my (Italian) passport with me at all times.

And SXB I understand what you mean about difficulties to live without a proper ID document in a foreign country.
Unfortunately the UK doesn't have proper ID cards which would have made life so much easier for me at the beginning. To open my first bank account or even to be registered with the NHS they asked for my Italian passport and a gas/phone bill as proof of address....not easy when you've just moved and are renting a room somewhere because you can't afford anything else!

[SXB]

FBW
One thing I do not understand though, is why would a EU citizen need a residence permit in another EU country? Schengen or not Schengen....I definitely do not have and do not need a residence permit to stay in the UK :confused:

The answer is that you are not obliged to have one but it's better if you do. It also depends on your status and what you're doing in the host country. I need to have one, for example it also serves as entitlement to drive a car with CD number plates, a passport, even a diplomatic one is not enough and to also prove my accreditation when dealing with the French authorities. It's also generally usefull as everyone is used to seeing some sort of card with 'République Française' written in big letters, even for things like paying in the supermarket by cheque (we don't have cheque guarantee cards here)

If you're an EU national and you don't have a permit you will get by but you'll occasionally run into problems. I believe some other EU countries also require residence permits when you are buying and selling property.

As for the UK you'll have noticed they are less obsessed with paperwork than their european cousins and the frequency with which you need to show some form of ID is significantly less. There are no residences permits needed for EU citizens in the UK.

[Gerontocrat]

I have an Italian ID card but it is clearly marked on the back as not valid for overseas travel, thus I have to use my UK passport. However, Italians can enter the UK with just a national ID card which does not carry the rider.
Our local DVLA once tried to refuse my UK passport as valid ID on the grounds that they 'did not understand what was written' within. They only relented, with much muttering, when I showed them the pages with the various EU-language translations.