Air Ambos - how does it work?

[Captain Nomad]

Somehow got to thinking about how things are working with the Air Ambulance these days... Last time I was at EN there was a good fleet of King Airs there and in previous years I have heard them plying the routes at interesting hours of the night on occasion. I was led to believe that many drivers 'volunteer' their services and fit it around Air Force/Airline jobs. With current airline management efforts to work pilots harder and also 'owning' the hours that a pilot flies how do the Air Ambos get their staffing/rostering issues sorted? Do they directly employ any full-time pilots? :confused:

[Got the horn]

A mate of a mate fly's air ambo's out of NZWN. 12 hours standby shifts and about 250 hours a year. Heard the money wasn't too bad especially when you take into account the hours flown however the standby shifts can be a killer.

[morno]

The Air Ambulance down in NSW/VIC is just the South East Section of the Royal Flying Doctor Service I am lead to believe.

morno

[Captain Nomad]

Thanx for the feedback. Morno - I was wondering if that may have been the case...

Got the horn - NZWN, is that a spot in NZ? I heard the kiwis have some sort of air ambo service also.

[Sqwark2000]

I heard the kiwis have some sort of air ambo service also.

In NZ, Air Ambulance services are provided by private companies that then contract their services to the many District Health Boards. Each company operates differently, pays differently and has a different slant on the law re: emergency flight and duty hours.

Some examples of companies are: Skyline (Hawkes bay, PA31 and C421), Airwork (Auckland & Wellington, Metro's and PA31 and T1090??, contractor to Lifeflight ), Air Wanganui (Wanganui, C90 King Air and PA31 Mojave), Air Charter Manawatu (Palmerston North, PA31 and C421), Flight Corp (Nelson, PA34), Air New Plymouth (New Plymouth, PA31), Air Gisborne (Gisborne, PA34), NZ Flying Doctors (Christchurch, C406, C414??), Mainland Air (Dunedin, PA31) Taupo Helicopter Services (Hamilton & Taupo PA31)

Examples of differnet slant on laws include one outfit have their boys on call 24/7 and if nothing happens on a calender day then that's their minimum 1 in 7 day off, others work 8-5 and then go on call 5pm-8am if you get a call out at 1am and finish at 7am, thats a 23 hours duty period. Others (better operators) roster pilots to cover 12 hr shifts only with overlap so if a job comes up in your 11th hour the last guy/gal to sign-on does it.

as a side Ambluance services in NZ (both road and air) are the only emegency service not funded by the government and provided by private companies.


S2K

[Jamair]

The fixed-wing Air Ambulance services in Vic are currently contracted to RFDS, who supply aircraft and pilot. Clinical services are the province of the Vic Ambulance. Same-same eastern NSW, while RFDS also runs their own clinical aeromedical services in the western area. The same applies to TAS, WA, SA, QLD and part of NT - ie the RFDS are contracted fixed-wing service providers for the state ambulance services, and also run their own clinical services. The bulk of the contract work is Inter-Hospital transfer, which is undertaken 24/7.

They most certainly do NOT have volunteer pilots.

[Cactus Jak]

It sounds like a good job in the RFDS EN. Reasonable money, good hours, home most nights. Need to hire some decent people though as i've heard they have hired some absolute clowns over the years.

[G.A. Boy]

Well a few of us here NOW in the EN RFDS pilot ops room who are here reading this think that it is rubbish! And no we are not volunteers!

[aircabbie]

Funny how between the few of you that are there you are all unable to come up with a decent response to a decent question .You think your a :mad: hero because some one asked a question regarding the out fit that you "apparently " work for !!!

cactas jack ,with the post below yours id agree with that comment ...

[rmcdonal]

A Chunk of the Clinic stuff is contracted out to operators who meet RFDS Minimum Requirements. Not to sure what they are but I'm fairly certain they include 500Multi Cmd 1500TT for the pilots. All jobs have to be on an IFR plan in a twin engine aircraft. Thats East Oz anyway.

[Captain Nomad]

Sorry - didn't mean to raise any heckles with my obviously incorrect perception that there were some 'volunteer' staff in the ranks...!

rmcdonal - yes I do remember being at a rural spot in NSW once when a RFDS medical job turned up in some charter mob's Cheiftain. My boss mentioned something similar to your observations. I would have thought that this would be a last resort when scheduling operations though. Poses some interesting challenges on the maintenance of quality control/standards within the RFDS I would think? (not questioning that most outfits chosen for contract work are probably subject to some sort of criteria and that the blokes flying are probably good capable guys).

Just as an aside - I wonder how many SE section applicants who get in actually have the 500hrs IF mentioned in their published criteria - although I notice most recently it is followed by the word 'desirable'. Just seems a bit steep compared to other sections but I guess most high time guys want to be nice and cosy somewhere on the east coast compared to some of the other options!

Squawk 2000 - interesting to hear how things work in NZ. You guys really do have it tough in a number of areas it seems. Bit rough that the Government doesn't offer any support either!

[G.A. Boy]

The requirements differ from base to base within the SE section. The requirements are laid down by the applicable client for whichever base you are selected for. ie. Victorian Air Ambulance, NSW Air Ambulance, Tassie, etc. I got in with only half those I/F hours, and 300 odd night hours 12 months ago when they specify 500 night hours. In times gone by, most sucessfull applicants had those requirements and more, however times are changing with the so called pilot shortage.

[rmcdonal]

Captain Nomad Sorry I may have said that the wrong way. What I mean is that because a lot of Clinic runs are based out of rural areas it is a hell of a lot cheaper and convenient just to use a local company. Each of these company's are required to perform up to a certain standard, both Maintenance and Pilot wise. I doubt the pilot minimums are the same as the ones to actually join the RFDS, but they are similar to what you would find on most Government or Mining Contracts.
They don't replace any of the Med 1 stuff only the time and money consuming Clinical stuff (and in some cases Patient Transfer).
In the past when the RFDS did most of the Clinic stuff as well it posed problems for duty times as the pilots had to travel further to do the job, this put pressure on the docs to finish by a certain time, because of the time constraint if the doc wasn't at the airport by a set time the flight went without him. :eek:

Other cases include the RFDS being called out to a Med1 leaving a crew of doctors stranded in a remote country town for the night. Not the flight crews fault, but doesn't happen any more as the contracted flights are specifically there for the docs.

[En-Rooter]

Cactus Jack,

Your clown comment defies belief :hmm:

As a controller who deals with the boys and girls who operate the Mike Whiskeys on a daily basis, you wouldn't find a more competent or professional bunch. And that includes everybody who operates in my airspace.

Well done EN RFDS :ok:

[Capt Wally]

Tnxs En ROOTER for yr kind words, a slab will be at the base of the tower in a few days, providing the real 'clown's out there don't add theft to their somewhat limited ablities! There's always a level of jealousy with some in here, human nature I guess, the comment 'clowns' show's the nastyness or bitterness that are amongst some out there. If they knew all the facts such childish statements wouldn't be needed. The RFDS only employ pilots with a sound professional background, & for good reason. It's no place for those that haven't been around a while doing the blood & guts jobs in this industry, trust me you wouldn't get past stage one if you where otherwise.

Jamair yr comments about the RFDS are pretty much correct, well researched.

As for the others with less favourable comments? I can only pitty you & hope that you guys mature & soon!

Capt Wally

[Tee Emm]

I wonder how many SE section applicants who get in actually have the 500hrs IF mentioned in their published criteria

Understand the requirement is actually 500 hours IFR flight plan hours - not 500 hours in cloud. It is easy for CASA to audit a log book with 500 hours IFR flight plan but virtually impossible to verify the truthfulness of someone claiming 500 hours IMC as there is no way of checking its veracity. Logging of real IMC hours is totally dependant on the honesty of the pilot. And we all know some who are perhaps streching things just a little bit in order to get jobs.

[OpsNormal]

Click here (http://www.flyingdoctors.org/PilotRecruitmentForm.aspx) for the SE Section min qualifications straight from the website.

Looks pretty plain to me from the way it is worded; you need 500 hours in those little columns on the right hand side of the pages of your logbook, not "500 planned" for the SE Section. Wouldn't it say "500 Planned IFR" if that was the requirement?

Tee Emm, I have no doubt that there is an element in the industry that does guild the lily, so to speak when it comes to IF time. Conversley there is also an element who do the hiring in some organisations (not the one being discussed) who have minimal appreciation that there are companies who have aircrew working up to 1000hr/yr (as per CAO48 dispensation) flying freight and whatever else in un-pressurised singles and twins across the top end (and in other places), 6-7 hours a day/5-6 days a week, wet season or dry. Work doesn't stop because the wx looks ordinary.

[kingtoad]

It may be the volunteer pilot outfit you were thinking of is Angelflight ...

www.angelflight.org.au (http://www.angelflight.org.au)

The RFDS guys n gals are amongst the most professional examples of aviators you will come across in the industry.

[ryan_vd]

on the subject off rfds minimums as being discussed above, just recently there have been two rfds adverts, 1 from the SE section, the other from the western section, both with totally different minimum requirements. As suggested above by GA boy is this due too different minimum requirements from the clients or is there a different reason. It just seems a bit strange that they havent united with a uniform minimum requirement? any answers?

[En-Rooter]

No probs Cap'n Wally,

But I'm a centre controller! So don't leave the carton at the base of the tower, they've hired some absolute clowns in there, they really need to hire some decent people!!!

:E

[Jamair]

Re different standards (ryan_vd) is simple: the different RFDS Sections (Qld, NSW, Vic etc) are separate organisations, who set their standards according to their own requirements. They also have their own pilot awards / agreements, aircraft fitout standards, etc etc.
Re the NZ Ambulance services; that info is not quite correct. There are several service providers in NZ, including St John and Wellington Free Ambulance, as examples. Some of those service providers have agreements in place with the healthcare service providers (the government), for the provision of pre-hospital and interhospital care and transport services. Some also have ambulance subscription schemes. The majority of the national area is actually covered by volunteers; the majority of the population (population centres) is covered by paid staff. Some of the Air stuff is contracted, other is ad-hoc. Personally, I don't consider a PA34 to be suitable for aeromedical duties - but then again Qld Air Ambulance used to have a couple of Part-Bananas in that role:rolleyes:
Still, the Kiwis do fly their PM around in an Aztec.......:p