Emirates-new Paydeal For Locals Only

[ekslave]

Every Emirati in EK is to be given a "Local Allowance" of 4000dms per month as the Government do not think that they are being rewarded enough !!


The next time crewing call you out - tell them to phone a local !!

[doha]

local they dont have a visa that hav e to be paid yearly plus other things and its there country and they have the rights ,they will say for example u have to learn arabic like other company in diffrent country needs local langauge speakers but u are welcome to work in any of gcc country ,,

[violate]

Thanks Doha, that made complete sense :}
Local Allowance" of 4000dms per month
Love it, that means we will now have A & B Scale
Arab Scale &
Bu**ered Expat Scale
I feel violated
Just another reason to start looking elsewhere

[Spirit]

local they dont have a visa that hav e to be paid yearly plus other things and its there country and they have the rights ,they will say for example u have to learn arabic like other company in diffrent country needs local langauge speakers but u are welcome to work in any of gcc country ,,

Imagine all expats leaving the companies...or the countries: Wouldn't you guys pretty quickly just get stuck in the sand?:zzz:

[mustangV8]

local they dont have a visa that hav e to be paid yearly plus other things and its there country and they have the rights ,they will say for example u have to learn arabic like other company in diffrent country needs local langauge speakers but u are welcome to work in any of gcc country ,,

...I think if you read it backwards, it makes sense:{

Anyway, doha, your reason isn't good enough. I bet they'll have preference with scheduling as well...dont you dare call'em on a friday!!

[Marooned]

Who needs KY? You get shafted so often here it's like throwing a sausage down the SZ Road...

Let's face it, we don't come here for the flying.

[THRCLB]

4000 AED are you sure i heared much less than that
and for the A B C scale pay expat get paid more( not all of them ) dont forget the exchange rate protection that get locals didnt get that before ;)

[donpizmeov]

Chaps,

I think you may have misunderstood what Doha was saying. I am quite well versed in Qatarese, so will try to interpret.

"local they dont have a visa that hav e to be paid yearly plus other things and its there country and they have the rights ,they will say for example u have to learn arabic like other company in diffrent country needs local langauge speakers but u are welcome to work in any of gcc country ,,"


This is basically saying that its their country, their company, and that expats will only be tolerated while they pass the blood test for a visa renewal. It also states that they (being Nationals) will now go the whole hog (oops) and do all the open trips, extra reserve, sim supports etc, and we don't have to learn Arabic.

So sit back and relax at home on those days off, with the comfort of knowing that crew control will not be ringing you again for that trip that you are the only person available for.

You see, not everything here is negative at all.

Don

[blueground]

Why guys you have so closed mind, start to look for jobs else where coz I’m sure that you will end up with nothing and you we continue stay there. And by the way I’m sure that there is enough pilots to fly there A/C more than what you thing. Finally guys stop talking about this country like that you don't have the same problems in yours coz I have sow what you are talking about almost everywhere.:}

[sandkfir]

Think of it as a hardship allowance. When an ex-pat's sh_t bucket is full he goes back home or somewhere else. For the most part the locals will have to stay in UAE for the rest of their lives. That means traffic, garbage, pollution and a significantly reduced life expectancy as a result of exposure to the driving culture in the country. Hell I reckon they deserve 10k a month.

[SIUYA]

Don............

You did a great job in translating for us what Doha said. :D

Can you do us a favour and have a go at translating what blueground said about:

coz I have sow

because I didn't think that was possible in that part of the world.:}

[Ghostflyer]

Its a windup from Borat

[wastafarian]

so Doha translated is Borat? :O thanks for the good laugh :D
http://www.gossiportruth.com/wp-content/images/borat-pilot.jpg

[ekwhistleblower]

There should be no problem with them taking the expat jobs soon. Looking at the sickness levels over March they must comprise 45% of all F/Os if the figures are representative. That means at the current rate of growth all F/Os will be local by next tuesday.

EKW

[ekslave]

It appears that most of the trainers have had enough and are resigning.

Maybe the locals are taking on some resonsibility and are all going to be trainers and that this is the long awaited "new training package".

[TWIN BOY]

Whole thing stinks.

The company are quick to act when they need to attract more or retain the Emiratis.

How about doing something to attract some "quality" pilots and to stem the flood of pilots leaving.

6% is NOT enough.

WAKE UP !!!!

[Cityliner]

Speaking of locals,
out of curiosity how many locals are at EK on the left and right seat (in %)

thx

[MR8]

Last seniority list shows 125 UAE nationals out of 1648 pilots, so about 7.5%.

MR8

[mmid]

Well so sorry for the rest but i think we deserve it actually. The cost of living here is getting very expensive and we have to bear more cost.
but i think 4000 aed is not really much.

thanks ek

[MR8]

The cost of living here is getting very expensive and we have to bear more cost.


The cost of living is very expensive for everybody, and can you please explain how you have to 'bear more cost'?

MR8

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Hey Blueground, do us all a favour and just link a few examples from the west where locals of those countries get between one year and eighteen months jail for gang raping a girl, whilst visitors to those countries get 3 years jail for having a few crumbs of marijuana in the bottom of their backpack that they forgot about.
Also while you are at it, pass on to me all those times in Western countries where you have been driving with your family safely at the speed limit, only to be almost ran off the road by someone doing twice the speed limit changing lanes erratically without indicating, flashing their headlights on and off, all in the sight of a local law enforcement official, who does absolutely nothing because their number plate indicates they are a local of the country.
Also could you identify another civilised country such as your own, that jails people along with all the murderers and rapists for making a supposedly rude hand gesture in response to the above paragraphs example of driving.
If in Australia or America or Britain or France, a local of that country said to a visitor in response to acting like an idiot, "it's my country I can do as I like", they would at the least be laughed off the street, but secondly they would probably get a physically inflicted attitude adjustment that unfortuantely we aren't allowed to do in this country.
Finally the whole thing about not having to learn the local language is a joke. The international aviation language is English, not Arabic. Therefore it is not the generosity of the Emiratis that "allows" us to work here in the aviation industry without speaking Arabic, it is the nature of the business we are all involved in, that we only need to speak English.

[Payscale]

I totally agree that the Emiratis should have an extra 5-10000 AED, just like I think every expat living in the westen world should have less than the national of that country. However thats not the case.....so who is the monkey now?

At the end of the day 7,5% getting more, so what! They have always gotten more due to their pension. Good for them. I knew about it when I came...and I'll know about it when I leave. None of my business

[disconnected]

So let me get this right: Locals get another 48000 per year because of the high cost of living, those from countries with strong economies get between about 24000-40000 because of the ERP, the rest get nothing because generally their home economies are floundering so they dont need it. In some cases these people are not allowed to live or hold the passport of the country concerned!

Sounds real fair to me. Scrap both and pay the same salary for the same job to everyone. The world is a global place now making ERP irrelevant and Dubai is getting more and more expensive with the demise of the dollar.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Disconnected, I have to agree with payscale in that we all come to the UAE knowing that the place is based on people doing the same job getting paid vastly different salaries in a large part decided by where they are from. Emiratis even before this 'Local' Allowance have been a special case due to the fact that they are paid an allowance to get married, an allowance to have children, interest free loans to buy cars and build villas, they pay 300 dirhams a year to sponsor a house maid whereas expats pay minimum 5,000 dh's. That is their perogative as it is their country, even though it would be challenged in court and ruled illegal in any other developed country on the grounds of discrimination.

The issue I had was with bluesky saying that there is no difference between the UAE and our own Western countries. The whole blocking of Skype purely on the grounds of economic gain for the monopolistic Telephony provider highlights that this country and it's citizens live in fantasy land and while it may last for a few decades yet, one day the fantasy will end. Maybe then the best person for the job wil get the promotions, not the person with the right connections, family name or passport. And maybe then the justice system will sentence criminals based on the crime they committed and not purely based on their nationality.

[ShockWave]

Settle down guys!
Why do you even give a stuff about what locals get paid? Who cares, it simply doesn't matter. Free land, money from the government, more from the company....... Good luck To them!
My home country unfortunately doesn't give out free blocks of land unless you come from the correct tribe and can prove your family has lived there for more than 10,000 years. That is not the fault of the UAE gov nor our local colleagues.
If you don't think we are being paid enough, then say so! don't get bitter and twisted because some one else is better off than you. Some expat airlines pay their locals less than the expats on contracts. If you were there would you still be pissed off at the double standards?

[411A]

Those that complain about local folks receiving more pay than expats need only look slightly further west for examples.
Saudi Arabian Airlines.
There, local pilots have nearly always made more than expats, on the same equipment, and it has been this way since the mid-seventies.
And, why not?
After all, expats are expendable, are they not?
Last time I looked, EK is not a European owned carrier.
Gee, what a surprise.:rolleyes:

[Desert Diner]

This may be appropo to this discussion as well as the new Middle East reality in general:ouch:

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20070323/cp.98b88f86c4439784472f9701a750937c

[mmid]

dear friends from outside,

well when u go to singapore airlines and korean when you guys get more , have you guys ever offered to management to reduce your pay to equal locals or have you guys ask in support of locals getting equal pay?

hmmm sudden silence huh.

talking about fair and level playing field.
free trade but not free movement of labour.

[gatvol2006]

Gents I am sorry, as an expat living here, I think you should be gratefull to the local folk here. They have (in what ever way) provided you and your families with a lifestyle you would never have experienced before. They have built this country up from nothing (still a long way to go if I may add) however if this had not been the case we would not be here. Be gratefull for a change. I have come to my end in the UAE, as I have provided my financial freedom and will be leaving soon. Flinging mud ain't gonna help. You live once, its up to you to be happy and do it yourself. I am not local nor anything else a European would want to hear... get on with it, leave the locals alone as you know what they are all about, and leave if you don't like it (as is so often said by management)!;)

[Payscale]

Gatvol.... Greatfull?? Dude, I have a profession. I am proud of it. I sell it to the highest bidder. No loyalty but to my family. The Emiratis didnt pick me off the streets and dressed me in a blue uniform. They needed me to expand their airline, and I wanted an adventure for a while. Fair trade. None of this greatfull bla bla....maybe if I came from country X, a wartorn, porverty stricked and cold place. Wrong again.
No gratefullness for spending more time on the road looking in the rear view mirror than ahead. Just waiting for that 16 year old kid from AUH with 70% black windows.
I'll stay untill something better comes up. In the meantime I'll enjoy it.
Greatfull...thats the underdog talking. Remember, the day our services are no needed you will be gone within a week..

[sandseeker]

Well said Payscale! :D

[A330_300]

Well i am waiting when the company will throw all the thankliess white trash out from the country. And that day is not far. You people dont even have right to sat anyhting to an arab or their country................. In your country you throw your parents in a trash can once they are no more required....................

I would say the locals should get atleast 20,000 more since its their county

[BlueSkye]

I will pay good money to see your kids sweeping streets, hauling away trash (not the white kind), hitting the till at Carrefour or toil in the sun for 500 a month. I would rather you just say thank you and go on your way.
:=

[THRCLB]

500 OR YOUR EMIRATES FAT SALARY
every body have a choice to come to this country and work and get PAID it might be not ENOUGH for you but I'm sure it's more than ENOUGH for someone els... other wise YOU and them will be looking for some other place too B%&%ch about..:cool:

[SIUYA]

A330_300:

jin·go·ism (jĭng'gō-ĭz'əm) n.

Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

Great ambassador for your country A330_300.............NOT! :ugh:

[BlueSkye]

THRCLB - Without a doubt one has a choice to come here or not. The sad reality is that YOU need us more than we need you. This isn't the only place on the planet with a dire shortage. The problem lies in your inability to staff your growing companies with locally sourced talent, which forces you to look elsewhere, i.e. us "The white trash" and "10 for the price of one Sub-continent worker."

You cry for our assistance when you need it and then criticise the manner in which we provide it. Be careful what you wish for, for that wish may be just be granted.

[SIUYA]

Spot-on BLueSkye. Well spoken!

A330_300.............here's more for you to think about:

Chauvinism: extreme and unreasoning partisanship (my emphasis) on behalf of a group to which one belongs, especially when the partisanship includes malice (my emphasis) and hatred (my emphasis) towards a rival group...........i.e.,

...the thankliess (sic) white trash...

And that's precisely the sort of attitude that made me leave the Gulf some years back. I'm sorry to see that it obviously still exists. :ugh:

[vbrules]

Check out the hatred and racism! White trash? :=

[White Knight]

Whilst I admire the way the ruling family looks after its own people (where I come from you get nothing but screwed up the whoopsie by your own government:yuk: :yuk: ) the words big fish small pond spring to mind....

[vbrules]

You need to bin a330-300; preferably for good.

[Thridle Op Des]

I am please to have the semantic difference between 'allocated' leave and 'contractual' leave pointed out to me!

TOD

[Thylakoid]

ExEKpilot, I have been with EK for a long time, entirely my fault, I know, because I should have gone home a long time ago.
While I agree with your comments, you would be surprised to know that most, if not all, the policies in place to screw up the employees come from the expats (UK, US, AU) employed by the locals to run the show.

Enjoy your new life:)

[jetman61]

th one time that an arab contry looks after the locals you guys start jumping ..i work for a company and am a local we get expats with marginal experience and they fly as copilots and make more money then me after twenty years and one fifth of my experience..
the market in the middle east is flooded by expats and some locals with out experience have hard time getting a job not only because of the overflux of pilots but also the expats are running the show...come on get off dohas back and be fair

[Ghostflyer]

Jetman61,

I've had enough of the politically correct bull**** so I'll give an opinion which as we all know are like ar**holes, "we all have one and they usually stink".

Some locals also struggle to get the jobs because their educational ability, motivation and flight training background are poor. 55% of the 'qualified' ex-pats that apply for a job do not get it; why should it be any different for the local population. Getting a job has always required at least 5 things:

1. Intelligence that matches the task.
2. Education to meet the task.
3. Training to do the job.
4. Experience to move up.
5. Motivation to stay the course.

What I see as an ex-pat are some very talented young locals that make the grade with ease. I then see a great number that struggle initially to overcome their educational shortcomings but are well motivated and smart and get there in the end. Finally I see the utter liabilities "I am local, you must give me the job".

In the private sector in other countries most young men and women start at the bottom and work their way up through the business. This gives them perspective and an understanding of the business. They develop themselves and then when they are ready move up the tree to become management.

Here we have guys that I wouldn't trust to clean my toilet that want to be the boss because they are a local. They do the rest of the hard working population an utter disservice and employ slaves to do the tasks they are incapable of. Remember the only reason a local is local is because they got there first not some unalienable birthright. I wish people would stop whining about being given a job and earn it instead. Few are resentful of someone that has earnt their position but there also has to be an acceptance that everyone is not cut out to be a pilot just as everyone is not cut out to be a brain surgeon.

Respectfully,

Ghost

[jetman61]

i know i will not find an expat that will admit to any of what i say people are just prejudice period
the first interview i had 23 years ago to get into this business i was told by the manager hiring (he liked me and wanted to give me an advice) he said look son i like you but you have to understand we as expats havt to put in 10 20 % and people would say wow what an outstanding job while you will put 100 % and bend backwards and you will find guys that will still come back and tell you you need to work work harde to prove youe self ( and give you the lecture ..and may be i should copy and paste your five point here..)
any way he said understand that you will do great and nomatter what you do we are better .....he is correct
most ok 99% of the local pilots in my operation are collage grads and have gone to the best approved part 114 schools and outstanding pilots with the motivation and alll the other stoff the you mentioned not easy to find in our people..yet still we bring guys from outside with half experience and becuse they are better we give them as copilots twice what the captain makes because even thou they came fromprops we give them more money to whatch over our jet captains...yes becausethey are ..
on the other hand we got alot of expats that where fired and i have told a few that i would not hire them to be cab drivers (will not go as far as not letting them clean my toilet ..i think any one can do that)
on the other hnd i have sent out resume out but never got an interview ..ut i did once get an answer that with 10000 hours and 6500 pic on 737 and 2000 hrs glass/efis i don't have the requirements to make it as a first officer on a 777 and you should know why..because because of our stupidity (yes us locals) we put politically correct people with your mentality what the hell i will bring him in for an interview ..find out he is not good enough to clean my toilet and most probably he will asking to be my boss..hell no any crop duster from ny own will do the job

one more thing if i may add doors wide open over here for expats (and if you read pprune you can tell haw much they respect the locals and the culture i men have never seen once something good written about us people..)
with all the shortage in eu why don't they open the doors for us to apply over there ..i am great at cleaning toilets

[AHRS]

With that mentality you'd be quite right to brand yourself a slave.I am a local and let me remind you how desperate you probably were when you submitted your application like many EK wanna be pilots.The deal you get here is sweet.never mind that you are likely to abuse it and bugger off when your opportunistic demands are met.Life in DUBAI IS ALSO FAIRLY EASY ON YOU COMPARED WITH WHERE YOU CAME FROM.

YOu dont like it?why put up with it.I hope you spill your beans face to face with someone who can more appropriately redress your "grievance".

For your info. we locals that have to work for a living dont own lofty towers and have to tale out a loan to secure an abode..like you do back home(and additionally here I might add).W e dont get to live in the pampered company accomodation and are not such a great liability to the company as you are.To say that the extra 4000dh is excessive ....why doesnt EK deduct 400dH ONLY FROM YOUR ALLOWANCE AND SEE WHAT COMOTION wil arise:oh:

If the kitchen is too hot pal...find your nearest exit...there are plenty more where yu came from that will gladly fit their bums on your vacant seat!Dont stink it please!:mad:

[GMDS]

The really funny thing is, that if up north the locals say "love it, adapt to it or then leave it" many expats swallow their passport and cry asylum, or run to the human rights commission and cry intolerance and racism.

Just try and pay a local pilot different than a expat one, say in the UK, and read the junk-press the next day .........

I don't like racism or favoritism on EITHER side.

[donpizmeov]

You are right of course. I have not read anything in the Gulf news about a stoning for quite some time now. Still good to read about the odd flogging every now and then though.

Keep ducking.

Don

[AHRS]

SANDBLASTING IS INTERESTING BUT EMAR WONT ALLOW SUCH AQUANDERING OF RESOURCE...IT WAS RECOMMENDED THE OTHER DAY THAT BODYS SHALL BE DUMPED IN THE SEA...THEY NEED TO CREATE MORE FLOATING BRIDGES TO ALLEVIATE THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION....THE LATEST IS IF YOU APPRACH A WOMAN AND SAY HI AT THE BEACH.YOUR CAR/BIKE/WATER SCOOTER/YACHT...AND GOD FORBID (YOUR BAZOOKA STRAPPED IN YOUR JOCKS) SHALL BE CONFISCATED AND YOU SHAL BE TAKEN TO PRISON...WATCH OUT xxxxxxxxxxxxx IS THE NUMBER THE BEACH BITCHES MIGHT RESORT TO EXTORT YOUR LAST DIRHAM!BETTER GET MARRIED AND SETTLE DOWN GENTS( AND IT MAY VERY WELL UPGRADE YOUR ALLOWANCES!!!!).THE PUBS AND NIGHT CLUBS ARE THE NEXT POLICING ZONE!!!!!:eek:

Number removed. 4HP

[AHRS]

Guys...stop moaning.

LOOK AT YOUR BOTTOM LINES AND DECIDE TO STAY OR GO...YOU ARE PILOTS AND HAVE NO DIFFICULTIES WITH V1..ABORT OR GO AWAY!

What disparities exist here are unmatched with the racism with respect to employment and the likes in say western countries.Today, as an Emirati I wouldnt qualify to even apply for a job in EUROPE no matter how commendable my credentials are.Here the whole world has been extended a welcome.INDEED priorities like any nation have to be accorded to its nationals...wouldnt you endorse this??

Another point to bear inmind is..with the influx of so many foreign pilots it makes it harder for locals here qualified at the basic level to get airline flying jobs..and so effectively the Supply spill is stealing some latent breaks needed by independently qualified local pilots much like every one of you needed at some point in your careers and AND ACHIEVED!


So please REFRAIN with critique on preferential treatment.. if we develop enough national cadre, the need for expat pilots in UAE with their lofty demand will diminish.....basic economic theory buddies.YOU WORLD BE WEL SERVED TO PROTECT THE INTERESTS OF YOUR TAX FREE EARNED DIRHAMS RATHER THAN BITCHING ABOUT IT AND RISKING BEING JET BLASTED OFF OMDB to scroucge for taxable income jobs elsewhere with protected national labour policies!

[disconnected]

I dont think racial slurs helps. If the locals get paid more, good on them. I wish I could. Its not their fault anyway - blame the inequality on management - they made the decision.

I think the Middle East has got it right. I wish I had preferential rights in my own country instead of being the bottom of the food chain because of ridiculous political correctness. The West could learn a lot from the Middle East if they took the best and discarded the worst.

Not much is fair in this game anyway. ERP is not applied fairly, variances on pay for Locals vs Expats is not fair, Accommodation Allowances are not fair nor are Utility Bills or the Upgrade policy. Get involved in a traffic accident and then see the huge disparity between law and justice. The list goes on and will get bigger - it always has.

Emirates has had its heyday for expats unless you come from a really messed up Third World Country. Its not going to get better with bigger demands for productivity at salaries of diminishing real value. This has happened in many other airlines and will continue to do so. If you are waiting for substantial improvement you'll be here a long time and wind up bitter and twisted.

They are going to increase the local pilot contingent and why shouldn't they? At the same time they will squeeze the expats so they gradually make way in an orderly fashion facilitating interim cheap labour. Everyone will have their personal breaking point.

Look for the new opportunities in aviation - there are a few out there. Get in early with the lucrative contract and catch the wave up. Remember you are an Expat and are out for the financial benefit. To maximise this choice you must be nomadic.

[A330_300]

Oh man i am enjoying your remarks and feeling so good that you people are so helpless and every night you cry in front of your kids the way the local treats you and they get all the good things.

Since you all cannot leave this company and that is because you all dont even have a decent job back home to support your family, provide them good education, get a tax free salary, drive an expensive car etc.

I am happy and thankful at what i am getting, atleast i can accept that my previous job was **** and over here they have given me more what i deserve. I dont care whether the locals get 100000 dirhams extra. Its their airline and their country and we all work for them.

You all are full of :mad: and two words for all of those not happy here, SHUT UP..................................

I was not happy with my previous job and nobody forced me to work, i decided to leave, which i did, atleast i had courage to do that and was not complaining and crying like all you.

[donpizmeov]

Life in Qatar must be fun with you around A330 300. I think you are in need of a Bex, a cup of tea, and a little lie down.:bored:

Don

[kumul1]

I think in all this mud slinging and abuse, we lost the point. The GOVERNMENT, ( not EK management), has decided to award the LOCAL workforce a payrise and EK who happened to have some locals in their hire fall into that category.

Good for them. Some countries have local preferential treatment and other perks to look after their own, so this is the UAE Govt's way. Let it be and enjoy the sun.

[Remove Status]

Thanks Kumul1 that should've been the only reply to the unhappy slave's topic :D

[SIUYA]

Remove Status..............

Which particular slave are you referring to? 60+ replies seems to suggest that more than one slave is unhappy, and that the slaves' (ie., more than one) percieved unhappiness may perhaps be justified? :ugh:

Ever considered changing you user name to

'Removed from reality Status'???? :E

[Remove Status]

SIUYA Let me get this one right,

You and the other 60+ slaves are not happy

with the Government paying their own people extra money.
(( by the way not all of them are unhappy, I guess you have to read the whole thing if you wanna generalize
next time))


You are not happy with me saying my own opinion in this topic


You are not happy with Emirates in General

You are not happy with emirates Managements

You are not happy with Dubai traffic

You are not happy with the 6% you are getting this year and the flying hour's pay

You are not happy with Dubai Growth

And now you are telling me that you are not happy with my name????????



Take it or leave it dude if you are not happy here

F***ING LEAVE

[stratocumulus]

Way toooooooooo defensive removed brains....chill out have a cup of tea
and think of your hometown in beautiful India:ouch:

[bboo]

:d :d :d :d :d :d :d