UK MEIR v's Euro MEIR

[blobber]

Trying to fathom the pros and cons;

Cost!
Is it always cheaper abroad once you work out the cost of flight and accommodation (assuming that you have free accom in uk)?

The UK is more Highly regarded!
But will an airline hold it against you. After all, you still have to demonstrate your ability in a sim check which is more important, right?

Test Standard!
Is it easier to pass in Europe with just slightly relaxed/ realistic standards? i.e I hear that in UK, you get a fail if you deviate just 1 degree more than +/- 5 degrees QDM, which to me is ridiculous. (should be 10), a little more discretion should be allowed.

Lets face it, if only 30% of people are passing 1st time and the cost of a re-test is realistically costing you 1500quid, something is not right!

Thanks

[MIKECR]

I did mine here in the uk and am glad I did. There were a few Australian and US IR converts at the same school, all of whom found the UK training quite tough going. The +/-5 degrees is the book standard and thats what the examiner is looking for. You will be expected to single needle track using the RMI but you will be given plenty practice before test day. Besides, +/- 5 degrees single needle isnt that difficult, certainly not for a VOR. An NDB is a different kettle of fish but the examiner is looking at the overall picture remember. He's not going to fail you just because you slipped to +/-6 or 7. He takes the whole flight into account.

[JonathanB]

An IR examiner gave a seminar on Saturday where he categorically stated that the "limits" on precision and accuracy were not limits but guidelines. Obviously on a nice calm day then he'd be looking for more accuracy than if it was turbulent. He was more interested in making sure that the flight was conducted safely than a candidate striving for the precision.

[blobber]

thanks, so the accuracy thing isn't an issue

but will prospective employers regard the European MEIR as '2nd rate' and hold it against me?

[BlueRobin]

There are very little employers who post here who can give you an honest answer to that. Anything else is just supposition and rumour.

[count dingleberry]

who says that the UK/IR is better than a german or a french one for example?:=

come on brits, wake up and smell the......tea(?)and try to become bilingual while you are at it........:cool:

[blobber]

I dont think the uk ir is the best either. It is probably the toughest but I reckon for the wrong reasons.

Not that I want to branch off to usa. I'm more interested in Euro v's UK, but,
I have been around a few schools who have scorned the usa ir but mine was quite hard and the training was very good too (pea in daytona). We had unpublished holds which you only recieved details of while in the air and several approaches inc. ndb, vor and gps.
One UK MEIR instructor said to me yesterday, that uk standards are the highest. He says they allow 3/4 scale deflection and we only allow 1/2 scale! So F***ing what. It seems that is what he is basing his opinion on having not even been there. Tit.

Anyway, going back to Euro, does anyone know about the test fee? Is it still 700 quid?

Cheers

[Megaton]

I converted an FAA IR to UK JAR and it wasn't that difficult. In many repsects the US IR was harder - partial panel NDBs! Neither FlyBE nor BA have batted an eyelid at my converted IR (if they noticed at all).

[blobber]

Nice one!
Still struggling on deciding where to go. I have narrowed down to the following

LFS (Leeds) - Good guys but windy airport
Stapleford - Sound good with high first time pass rate
Egnatia - nice area/ experience, possibly a bit cheaper?
Aerofan - same as above


Any ideas??

[Hufty]

How about Bristol Flying Centre www.b-f-c.co.uk/

They were pretty good.

[skylog]

I want to make it clear that by no means do i think that people who have done their MEIR in mainland Europe are lesser pilots,

However the training in the UK is more intense and the examiners are not as lenient as the ones in Spain.

One example is that in spain you do not fly during training with the screens on, weather is not as bad and during the exam they do not perform a SE go around and visual to land after the non-precision approach section.

I personally found the UK experience challenging and it prepared me better for the real world and subsequent checkrides & assesments.

[blobber]

interesting points skylog but you seem to be generalizing a bit. Are you talking about every flight school in spain? Different training establishments have different standards of training, just like in uk and usa.
Single engine go arounds aren't a big deal either. I believe that the uk method is designed to rip people off, I wouldn't mind a partial pass or even a fail if it never cost another 1500 quid
Aerofan quote 5700 Euros for everything inc. 15 hrs in cessna310, skill test fee and hire of the aircraft for the skill test. That is a great deal. I have already blown thousands in parts of my training because I found aviation to be a minefield of hidden information so I am now having to watch every penny, especially if I hope to afford to pay for a type rating.

[skylog]

i can only vouch for 2 examiners and schools in spain that do as i said in my earlier post.
Have to agree with you on some parts of your last post, since i think 50 % of training in regards to aviation are just hoops(expensive ones) we have to jump through to get a piece of paper.


you said you wouldnt mind a partial or a fail if it didnt cost you an extra 1500 quid,
however my main motivation during the IRT exam was not the thought of getting a first time pass but the fact that if i didnt pass i would have to pack it all up since there was no way i would have been able to find the extra 1500 quid......Just a thought.

[sam34]

hello english friends!

Blobber, I see what you mean.
I am french and live there, I passed my atpl theory, and I wanted to do CPL/IR in UK to improve my english...
And what I can say, it is very expensive in UK, ALL is expensive!
like: accomodation, food, clothes, etc Life... and plus, CPL IR is the same cost that in France, but the fees and test flight are very expensive. :ugh:
Test CAA : 691 £, :eek: that's a joke!!
For instance I will not pay french test CAA because I will be unemplyment. So it is free for all students who do not work... if it not the case it will be 420 euros. But euros are inferior to £. :} 691£ equals 900 euros!! :yuk:

And you said, 30% people pass the first time...

that's why I did not want to fly in UK because I would not have more money if I failled the flight test.
I am writing that because curiously the pass rate in France is high. In lot of schools you pass your flight test (CPL or IR) with 90%...
believe me or not, but what I can say is I don't understand neither.
Because what I saw it that all the students do not have the same capacity to learn but most of them learn IR in 55 hours of fligth and passed the fligth test.
What's the secret of the french FTO ?? I dunno...

As I said I would be delighted learning fly in UK because that's true you have high standards... but the difficulty is money. ALL is expensive.

a good point in UK is the weather, but just for IR course lol I think you learn more in bad conditions..but for the CPL I guess it's an other problem. ;)

By the way, for Spain, I heard not very good things... maybe the course is cheaper but the quality huuummm be informed.
I tell that because when we talk about the spanish pilot it's " ils volent à la one-again" :p

[blobber]

I think its more like 40% first time pass in UK but who knows. I'm fed up of generalizations about whole countries. I thinks all countries have good and bad FTO's , I think that the UK test standards is the thing that is TOO high, not necessarily the training. (i've yet to see PPL training in the UK carried out as comprehensively as the schools I know of personally in the USA (obviously I dont have knowledge of all schools, just some))

The test fee is a ******* joke in the uk. I have decided to go to Aerofan as I have heard good things on this forum and they seem very organised and professional. Plus they are cheap. The test fee is only 250euros.

You get out what you put in and sometimes even more! I dont think my flying will suffer from doing my MEIR (conversion) in Spain instead of UK. I like the fact that I have learned to fly in various countries and FTO's, It gives me a bigger picture and allows me to meet lots more people.

[boogie-nicey]

Good comments Blobber, it is indeed true that mixing with other 'operating cultures' around the world helps broaden the mind in aviation terms. Otherwise people interpret aviation wholely from the UK aspect and besides you only get out as much you put in. I'll see you at Aerofan soon then :)

[potkettleblack]

The problem with heading to the hills and going cheap is twofold. Firstly, cheap cost can (but NOT always) lead to inferior training by undercooked instructors. A good CPL/IR instructor earns quite a bit these days and they are a scarce commodity. Secondly, remember who your target audience is. If your going for a UK airline job then think where the training captains/recruiters have been before you. Find out where their latest f/o's have come from and hopefully you might be able to piggy back off them to a degree.

If you have been to one of the well known schools (this is not necessarily the Cabair or Oxfords of the world either) then its automatically a tick in the box. But heading off to Seirra Nevada Polski flight school in outer Narnia is quite a different proposition and if your lucky enough to get called for an interview rather than having your cv binned automatically then expect to have to substantiate the quality of the school and explain your reasons in detail.

As to the accuracy of the IR, fly to the best of your ability and don't accept anything less. Flying 49 feet out for an entire flight, whilst within limits could get you a fail. The examiners can and will find other ways to fail you as its sloppy flying and shows that you are not working hard enough to fix it or worse still didn't realise at all cos your scan was shot. On the other hand a chap being bounced around on a mucky day who is 150 feet out might pass so long as he regains his cleared altitude quick smart. He might have demonstrated to the examiner that he is working hard and has seen from his scan that he is high or low and is trying to fix it. Best advice though is not to dwell on the test guidelines and just give it your best shot.

[count dingleberry]

potkettleblack, if you manage to fly 49 feet out for an ENTIRE flight, not only will I pass you but I will also buy you dinner and a cigar.:ok:

Now thats precision flying...........!

[blobber]

Whos talking about some 2 bit school in narnia? I'm talking about professional fto's which happen to be in Europe rather that the amazing uk. There are some out there you know! You stick to your same uk school and pay accordingly. I will get just as good training at half the price abroad. And I believe its not going to be a problem getting a job especially if you have a few contacts, especially in this market. Ryanair for one, is going though shed loads of pilots and not just because they treat them like crap, its because there's loads of jobs so after 500 house on type they move on leaving us to do the same. The biggest question is do you have 20k to spend. I might have because I trained abroad and never succum to the ridiculous charges of the uk.

[davey147]

Don't worry about getting the job at the end, all my mates have got airline jobs within 12 months, and not one of them did the training in the UK.

I cant remember where I read it, but there was a statistic that 70% of all european pilots have done some if not the majority of their training in the USA.

I've been to a school in spain, and I have to say the quality of training wasnt as good as the USA, but that was one school, there are plenty more. This goes for UK schools too, I think the quality is lower here too than the USA.

My advise is not to go for the cheapest but go to an established school that has good reviews and training record. Ignore all the 'we place our graduates with airlines' schools.

Once you have some experience and hours in your logbook, the airlines wont care if you did your training at Oxford or Uncle Bobs in the North Pole.

Good luck with your training.