Alan Joyce Fires Up

[neville_nobody]

Gee sounds like AIPA might have hit a nerve here with old Alan. Big call going out and calling AIPA liars in a national newspaper. I am of the understanding that it is actually Alan's whose pants are on fire here, not AIPAs. I wonder if a retraction and apology will follow?? :E

http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21389266-23349,00.html?from=public_rss

[Aussie]

Sounds like Alan got a little fired up...

good luck with getting an apology out of him! Dont think itll happen.

Aussie

[Going Boeing]

It looks like AIPA's arrows have hit their target. He's lowered his defences by talking to the press. :D

[Baxter Dewall]

Just curious re Peter Somerville's statement.

One minute he wants to look after all groups of pilots under the QF umbrella; but then say

"He said Jetstar management was "obviously worried" and that AIPA wanted good careers for all Qantas Group pilots.
"We want to give Jetstar pilots access to Qantas mainline flying and promotional opportunities in circumstances where Joyce and (Qantas chief executive Geoff) Dixon won't let them," he said.


Did you forget to offer QFLINK access as well Peter?

Yeah !! Thought so!!

:mad: wit

[3 Holer]

The man is angry.:D

[Capn Bloggs]

Did you forget to offer QFLINK access as well Peter?
Yeah !! Thought so!!
:mad: wit
Maybe he did just forget, Baxter, but with a response like this from you, why would he now make any effort to look after you?

[YesTAM]

I guess if I saw the prospect of the APA deal going south and with it my retirement nest egg, I'd be angry too!

[Baxter Dewall]

Bloggs,


"Maybe he did just forget, Baxter, but with a response like this from you, why would he now make any effort to look after you?"


BECAUSE D1CKHEAD, THIS IS WHY THE INDUSTRY IS IN THE SAD STATE ITS IN NOW.
"JUST FORGETTING" ABOUT THE 550 ODD QLINK PILOTS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, ESPECIALLY UNDER THE CURRENT CLIMATE.

I would have thought you would have more nouse than to make a comment like that

[hotnhigh]

Baxter......
"all qantas group pilots."
:ugh:

[blow.n.gasket]

Baxter,
Dude , did you fail reading comprehension at school?
The article quotes "Qantas group pilots"
last I saw QFLink is part of the Qantas group,is it not?
What's your problem?

[BAE146]

hey blow'n I think you're the one with the comprehension problem.

QF Link is part of the Qantas group BUT QF link pilots are NOT PART of the Qantas pilot group.:ugh:

[roamingwolf]

BAE If you are a pilot who works for the Qantas group how come your not in the Qantas pilot group.Sounds like your one and the same.

Do QFLink aircraft have Qantas group written anywhere on them?

Also I reckon it doesn't do any good for baxter to use language like this.

[Baxter Dewall]

hotnhigh and blown,

I don't need a comprehension test guys, I think it's you guys that do.

Reread what was said.

I was questioning PS's statement of

"We want to give Jetstar pilots access to Qantas mainline flying and promotional opportunities in circumstances where Joyce and (Qantas chief executive Geoff) Dixon won't let them," he said.



Please show me where QFL crews are being offered the olive branch that is being extended to JQ crews. And before you say anything, I agree it's great BUT the same is not being offered to QFL.

Come and sit in our seat and see it from our perspective.

[podbreak]

Back to the issue:

accused Mr Joyce of employing a divide and conquer strategy to erect a wall between Qantas mainline and Jetstar pilots

Joyce denies this is the case, but the jist of this article suggests he is doing just that:

As CEO of the airline I will not stand for AIPA publicly making false statements against individual employees

'Us and them' throughout his media outburst.

These execs thrive on the AIPA/AFAP 'disagreement'.

We have the view that the Jetstar pilots have sought employment and have been given employment in a format they wish to undertake and we support them

By seeking coverage within the J* pilot body AIPA isn't? This has really reached another low, AFAP needs a shake up, QF Group needs unity. Sadly I don't think this is the path of the future...

[Capn Bloggs]

Baxter, with a retort like,

BECAUSE D1CKHEAD, THIS IS WHY THE INDUSTRY IS IN THE SAD STATE ITS IN NOW.
"JUST FORGETTING" ABOUT THE 550 ODD QLINK PILOTS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, ESPECIALLY UNDER THE CURRENT CLIMATE.

I would have thought you would have more nouse than to make a comment like that

i don't want to be associated with you.

I note that Peter's comment is the last line of this story. Who is not to say that Peter told Creedy "and into the bargain, we'd like ALL QF group pilots to have the same opportunities..." but it never got printed? After all, the story WAS about Jetstar and the lepracaun...

The way you're carrying on, he probably wouldn't look after you...and neither would I. Be civil or don't say anything.

[slim]

Baxter, have to agree with Cap'n Bloggs. The comment made by Peter Somerville is a reply to Joyce's allegations, hence it is Jetstar specific. I think if you re re-read the article with that in mind it is reasonably clear.

You may not be privvy to what has gone on in AIPA lately but the message from them to Dixon has been that they want a 'group opportunity list'. That means pilots from QF, Jetstar and the regionals having equal opportunities. Don't embarass yourself with angry tirades based on an edited newspaper article, it does your Qantaslink colleagues no favours.

[cunninglinguist]

hopefully its a bit more " equal " than the current situation Slim.
4 ( or 3 ) seniority no's in 10 on the JQ list are for QF, its less than half that in return.

As for who is being a liar, how about we address IAPAs comments re : Jetstars standards,
Quote " QF have much higher standards " tell me again who wrote off the Jumbo ?

QF do more sims, yeh 4 x 1 day a year rather than 2 x 2 day a year.

Qf command takes 5 months, JQ takes 5 weeks.

So, who really is full of :mad:

[Capt Kremin]

Number of sims don't count. How many licence renewals do J* guys do a year? Sounds like two to me. QF guys do four.

[dodgybrothers]

wow 4 license renewals each year, you guys are real superstars. 4 days in the sim is 4 days in the sim who cares. You blokes need to work out your common goals and achieve the right oucome. F@rk me, arguing over how many times you go to the sim, no wonder dixon is p!ssing himself laughing at you blokes. In the not too distant future you are going to be asking for my support when the new owners tear you from limb to limb, at least try to mount a united front then, and only then will you have half a snowflake's chance.

[cartexchange]

do you really think they are worried



http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031202/bz2.jpg

[Condition lever]

Oz you have just made cunninglinguist's point for him.
He is indicating that 4 one day sims does not a sky god make.
It is fairly transparent that he works for J* - not mainline.
Suggest you re-read the post.

[cunninglinguist]

Umm, actually Cap'n we do 1 licence renewal a year, like every other airline or aviation oufit in this country, as far as I know CASA would'nt recognise any more than that ( its actually an IR renewal, licences are renewed by getting a medical each year, QF may do 4 of these as well :} )

Prof checks are a different matter, you can do as many as you like in house.

There are arguments for and against doing 2 x 2 hr sessions twice a year V 2 hours 4 times a year. ( yes for you mathmatical geniuses, it is exactly the same time spent in sim )
With only 4 hours between 2 drivers, there tends to be little time for training and it becomes more like 4 checks a year.
The way Jet* ( and VB et al ) do it, 2 sim checks a year plus a line check, the C&T department get to see the drivers every 4 months or so.
How many times do you need to check your crew.................if you trust them that is.
QFs big C little T attitude is old hat, compared to the rest of the world, not just QF world.

[neville_nobody]

The issue of simulator is actually one of cost cutting. I believe AIPA have gone to QF and tried to cut down the number of sims. QF say no and then go harping on that mainline is to expensive etc etc. Meanwhile Jetstar are taking all the QF work under the guise of being cheaper. Just more management spin.

[Dropt McGutz]

From my experience, it's a big T and a little c these days. Also, four sims per year are required in long haul for recency purposes due to long sectors and lack of takeoff's/landings as a result I believe.

[Keg]

Yet again we've shown how stupid pilots can be by resorting to comparing the length of our proverbials rather than focusing on management who are desperate to keep the pilot groups separate and at each other's throats. The plan's working pretty well for management so far.

So let's keep the real issue in focus here which Neville has been kind enough to highlight. The gripe of most QF mainline drivers is that we're required to do 'more' training (checking, whatever), more often, of all sorts, but are then told continuously that our cost base is too expensive. No one is claiming to be a better driver because of it (although a former DCP is convinced that not everyone can be a QF pilot and whilst he's probably right in a pure sense that doesn't mean that if you're not a QF driver then you aren't capable of driving heavy metal), we're just cranky at being forced to jump through a set of fiery hoops that others aren't forced to jump through. The length of command training, number of sims, number of line sectors, etc is just a quick example.

[blow.n.gasket]

So how long is command training in the airline of Choice?

[Capt Fathom]

Why would it be different to all the other airlines?

GA pilot's will tell you they are captains already.
FO's grumble that it's far too involved.
Captain's will tell you it's a piece of p!ss. :E

Go figure! :uhoh:

[Transition Layer]

cunning et al,

The p1ssing contest about sims/recency/training etc is all well and good, but the biggest joke of all is that people who have applied for mainline in the past and missed out then go and get offered JQ interviews, without even applying in some cases.

Say what you will about the mainline selection process, but it's their train set and thats the standard they set. All of a sudden it's OK for dodgystar to pick up the scraps. How the fark does that work? And before you say "i've never applied to mainline" I realise it doesn't apply to everyone but there are plenty out there in this situation.

(A very tired and jet lagged) TL

[frozen man]

Cunning you are a bit off the mark re licences

An Aus ATPL is perpetual, you do not need any form of check to renew it as it doesn't run out.

A current IR is required to operate IFR, ie use the priveliges of your IR,
most RPT operaters conduct a cyclic sim that covers all of the requirements of your IR renewal in a one year period, hence each sim covers part of the annual renewal requirment.

Medicals like the IR do not renew a licence, they are required to use the priviliges of your licence.

Hope this helps

[dirty deeds]

Have a look at the AIRC website, there are transcripts regarding some of the matters raised in this post. J* Chief Pilot was also cross-examined, J* operate 30 international flights a week so he stated, by the end of the year it will be 70. Straight from the guys mouth.
J*/QF/VB all working together on this case against APIA, as is the AFAP as well. These airlines are S%^TING themselves that the airline pilots of AUS get together and form a collective bargining power.
Time to unite is now, they are worried about this happening, so lets make it happen, VB/J*/QF need to start one union, with the regionals involved as well.
Wide Body Pay Scales
Narrow Body Pay Scales
Regional Pay Scales
All the same no matter which airline you work for. I believe QF payscales for a start. And I don't work for QF. :) :) :)