Why do we have to pay CASA $130 for medicals?

[virgindriver]

Just a bit annoyed about having to pay CASA $130 extra for a medical (then having to wait 2 months for the paper work to come back). I noticed that they charged my credit card promptly though. Surely this is just a blatant rip off.

We already have to go to CASA approved doctors who have to do CASA courses in aviation medicine. They also charge us extra for the privilege.

Surely if they think you are fit then that should be it. They can just sign your piece of paper and that's it for another 12 months. If you need more specialised checkups then go to a specialist doctor who checks you against the published criteria.

Tell me again why we have to pay an extra $130 on top of everything? Doesn't CASA trust their own approved doctors? Rant over...

[Jnr380]

Virgin,

Its the fact CASA is claiming back fees I think they call it recovery fees, so they dont spend any tax-payers anymore money in paying CASA doctors (and make a nice little profit out of it as well).

It sucks i know but apparently CASA is revising fees in June / July and maybe get rid of the Medical fees (thats what i was informed about anyways).

Jnr380

[virgindriver]

Cost recovery I know but why does it have to go to CASA in the first place when we already have to go to their CASA APPROVED doctors?

If CASA want to approve everything themselves, we should just be able to take our CASA medical checklist down to the local GP and they can check our pulse and eye sight and tick the questionaire before we send it back.

[Bankstownboy]

It's a bloody joke, but as has been mentioned above there's apparently some review of fees coming up mid year, in which they're supposedly reducing the medical fee to $70. I'm open to corrections of course...

[Jnr380]

Virgin,

Maybe CASA still wants to feel like they are in control???????? I cant answer that one..............................

[virgindriver]

I wonder if the Qantas guys and gals have to pay up as well or do they have their own inhouse medical staff? I guess there would be no point of having their own medical department otherwise...

[Hugh Jarse]

Yes, well I rang CASA Medical today regarding my Class 1 which expired last October. I asked them if my DAME can revalidate my licence in the usual manner if I provide reports from the Orthopaedic Surgeon stating that my foot reconstruction has been successful, and will have no affect on my ability to hold a Class 1 Medical.

Their answer? Yes, he can sign off the medical, but CANNOT revalidate it. I asked him how long it would take for CASA to approve my DAME's assessment and actually permit me to get back into training/flying?

They reckon 3 to 6 weeks!! How the hell can they justify such a delay when the medical is done online and CASA receives the data in real time? My DAME is approved by CASA to make a decision as to whether I'm fit to hold a Class 1 Medical or not. So why does it take so long???? Some public servant d!ckhead is going to sit on his or her arse for 3 to 6 weeks in order to review something that has already been assessed as satisfactory by a CASA delegated medical representative!!!! Surely all they need to do is spend a few minutes checking the DAME's report and rubber stamp my medical?

Perhaps I should send THEM a bill for my lost wages covering the 3 to 6 weeks its going to take them due to laziness and inefficiency...

Am I p!ssed off? Too frickin right I am!!:mad:

[Ultralights]

there is 130 reasons why i haven't renewed my medical, and even 70 is too many,
Im waiting for the Controlled airspace endorsement on my RAA certificate...:ok:
i can live without my NVFR and IFR as im only a weekend warrior, and own my own aircraft, with a RAA CTA endorsement, i have no reason to ever have any dealings with CASA ever again..:D
and with efficiency from the RAAus like these examples:
Pilot Certificate paperwork sent to them by fax on a Saturday, Certificate in my hands Thursday morning;
Endorsements paperwork faxed to them on a Saturday, new Certificate in my hands Wednesday morning;
ASIC application sent to them on a Monday by mail, acknowledgment back in my hands on the following Monday.
CASA is an absolute disgrace and provides absolutely NO value for money considering the costs for services (not) rendered.:mad: :ugh:

[harrip]

virgindriver - CASA APPROVED doctors are not CASA. Both have costs to recover albeit the doctors possibly do a bit more for their money.

[scramjet]

Hmm I love the way my medical has been the same day every year for the last 10 years or so of my aviation life. Now that they charge for them the policy is changed and you only get 365 days from the date of last medical.

My companies FAM states that I must supply ops with a new medical no less than 7 days prior to expiry date.

I suppose its only a week or so but, there is some comfort in the idea that your less likely to forget your medical if its the same day every year. And of course thanks for explaining the changed policy!--- NOT!
:ouch:

[Back Seat Driver]

Reason 1: You've got money and the government wants it.
Reason 2. See Reason 1

[bentleg]

There was a discussion paper circulated by CASA on class 2 medicals, comment closed off last June. The paper and the survey results are here (http://www.casa.gov.au/avmed/class2/report.htm). The most notable findng from the survey was -

Only option 4 – the proposal for all aviation doctors to be able to issue Class 2 medicals – received strong support from respondents.
Overall, 82.5 per cent of people agreed with this proposal, although the support amongst doctors was lower, at 62 per cent. Doctors raised some concerns about insurance liability and data management


Not much help for those requiring a Class 1 medical though - although the fee reduces to $75 on 1/7/07 (http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/fees/index.htm).

[Arm out the window]

Bruce Byron's gotta get his commuting money from somewhere - jeez, you blokes, stop whingeing!!:)

[virgindriver]

I wonder if Mr Byron's commuting from Melbourne started about the same time as the cost of medicals jumped up?

[Swanie]

if my class one expires on 12/7/07 can i hold out, and book my renewal for the 1/7/07 (for the $75 medical in stead of $130) without being caught out still waiting on the new paper work finding it's way back to me??

Correct me if i'm wrong but the stamp the DAME gives you is only good for 2 months (first medical renewal, don't really know)... what happens if after that time, and still no new medical??

[bentleg]

what happens if after that time, and still no new medical??

You can't fly.

It is the medicals with unusual aspects that cause the hassles - and the DAME can't sign those off. Always start your medical renewal well ahead of the expiry date.

[rmcdonal]

I still think it's funny that the doctor fee for my Class 1 is less then the CASA fee.... I wonder what takes them so long to send my medical back to me?:rolleyes:

[cougar77]

"Overall, only 2.5 per cent of respondents supported the current $130 medical fee and only 4 per cent want the current system retained with a flat fee charged by CASA."

97.5% did not support the current $130. Wonder who made up the 2.5%?

What's your average time it took before you got your medical cert? My medicals cost less than $130 and took about 2 hrs, however my sheet of paper cost $130 and 12 weeks.

[bentleg]

97.5% did not support the current $130. Wonder who made up the 2.5%?


When you dig into the survey results (http://www.casa.gov.au/avmed/class2/class2report.pdf) -

1.3% thought $130 was appropriate
96.9% thought it was inappropriate
1.8% did not answer the question

So there was ONLY 1.3% who supported it.

Continuing with the current system -

1.8% favoured
85.3 % against it
12.9% did not answer the question

So again the statistics are very persuasive and impossible for even CASA to ignore.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Interesting that only one individual who identified him/herself as an AOPA member responded...I would have thought they would have whipped themselves into a frenzy and exhorted all the members to respond...maybe there is only one member:confused: :E

It is an obscenity....the worst kind in fact...to charge for a 'service' like private enterprise and yet deliver a 'service' vastly inferior to that which was available before from the public service.

If CASA was truly privatised and given just a little competition it would be busted broke and out of business inside a fortnight...no, that's not fair of me...it might take a month.:ugh:

[Counter-rotation]

C'mon Chuck, it would take less than a week.
Just did a medical, paid the doc (fair enough), filled in the form to pay CASA (grrrrr), went home. Only days later CASA have billed my c. card, then I received the first of not one, not two, but four letters, advising me that I will have to pay CASA a fee of $130 for processing my medical etc. etc.
It would not surprise me to see the $130 fee go up, justification being "cost recovery of our new cost recovery system".
Has anyone actually seen the inside of a CASA office lately? Do any grown ups work there? Or is it chimps and monkeys all round?
If CASA were an Airline applying for an AOC, hands up who wouldn't laugh them down the street and round the corner.
The $130 fee is a blantant $$$ grabbing ripoff dreamed up by people who wouldn't recognise efficiency if it was right there arse-jacking them, but what's worse is they don't care because they still get paid.
Well done to all at CASA, take a bow. You are a bloody joke and the whole industry knows it.
:yuk: CR.

[Peter Fanelli]

Coz AOPA wanted "User Pays" back in the 1980's

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Get this: did my Class 1 medical back in October. That all important piece of paper arrived in the mail a few weeks there after. Ok, no problems, at least I got the thing in a timely manner after outlaying $150+$130 for wearing a few ECG wires, breathing deeply a few times and squinting at an eye chart.

A couple of weeks ago, yes, March, CASA rings me. Seems like they couldn't process my $130 because I'd forgotten to put the CC expiry date on my form. I hadn't even noticed that the charge had never appeared on my statements. "So how come you issued my medical 5 months ago anyway?" says I. No real response to that.

Obviously this doesn't adversely affect me, indeed I had the use of my $130 for 5 months extra. However it illustrates what an administrative clusterf..k the whole thing has become in Canberra. You would have thought they'd have rung me during the processing to sort out the mistake. At least they didn't rescind 5 months worth of my medical... :cool:

It all stinks of a bureaucracy floundering around to justify its existence, I'm afraid.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Peter, it is also very interesting to see who was in the commitee of AOPA back then. USER PAYS:mad: AFFORDABLE SAFETY:mad: Why did they do it? surely not to just remove a fuel levy. Stepping stone into the "Halls of Doom" maybe?

[virgindriver]

I wonder if Mr Smith agrees with the current practice of charging everybody a $130 processing fee? I don't see why every medical application has to go to Canberra in the first place.

Surely it would go some way of encouraging more active pilots if this pointless layer of government was eliminated and the CASA Approved doctors were allowed to do what they have been trained to do?

Just seems like a waste of our money having all these unnecessary people employed in Canberra. I am sure you could just have some specialists there who actually have something to do for the few who need it rather than for the vast majority that don't?

[Andy_RR]

If it's user pays, then it shouldn't be a monopoly. There should be some competition in the market place. Can't have it both ways, IMO.

A

[bentleg]

Interesting that only one individual who identified him/herself as an AOPA member responded

I think you are barking up the wrong tree - most professional associations including the AOPA delivered one response. Sounds fair enough to me. Many AOPA members would have responded and said they were pilots.....not an association.

..I would have thought they would have whipped themselves into a frenzy and exhorted all the members to respond

They did. It was AOPA who took the medical issue with CASA in the first place! AOPA media release here (http://www.aopa.com.au/mediareleases/mr061114.pdf).

:ugh:

[Wheeler]

Privatise CASA? No thanks! that would be an invitation to charge whatever they like in the interests of good old 'user pays' - isn't ASA private? - and don't we do well out of them! At least CASA are supposed to be a little transparent at the moment.

Far better to put the bottom end of private single engine, up to say 4 seats and 1500kg into the RAA - or if the don't want them, let AOPA administer the whole thing. (Is there a tongue in cheek smiley somewhere?)

Seriously, CASA's core business is the big boys. We at the arse end of aviation get treated with contempt accordingly and are just an inconvenient distraction to them. We need to get away and find an administration that actually focuses on our sector.

[virgindriver]

Wheeler, you are probably right. With all the extra charges and fees nowadays I can't justify setting foot back at Archerfield. Trouble is, it seems that a lot of newbies are thinking the same. Until something is done to encourage newbies I think aviation in Australia is in for challenging times ahead.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Ok bentleg lets look at it from CASA's point of view...

"Gee only 200 odd pilots bothered to respond to our online POL about Medical fees and only one is an AOPA member...68 were airline pilots who can either afford it or their emplyers can...68 were doctors and we're not really interested in their opinion because they aint paying...which means no one gives a flying ****, or the ones that do we have already chased off to RA Aus, so lets introduce $130 user pays fee for doing feckall..win win"

[Ultralights]

I know this is a little bit of a thread drift, but i think its the entire User pays system that fundamentally flawed and doomed to never really work, not just in CASA but in all services provided by the government, The govts and their department should be borrowing money for infrastructure against the taxes of the future users as well.
if the current users are forced to pay, then the cost simply becomes prohibitive, reducing the user (income) base and it ultimately fails.
Using Taxpayer funds to maintain CASA and subsidies the aviation industry not only ensures CASA and the industry it regulates stays relatively cheap but it helps it maintain its level of safety. as it is the taxpayers, not just the participant of the Aviation industry that benefit.. why should the minority (users of the system) be forced to pay for something that in the end benefits ALL taxpayers??

[Chimbu chuckles]

The most fundamental flaw in the whole system is the 'users' have been very narrowly defined, for political reasons, as those of us who rely on aviation for our livelyhoods...the 'users' are really the general population, both tax payers and tourists wh demand safe transport of the highest standards, and we are the suppliers of said transport in a system that requires, by Law, that we comply with sundry requirements...like a medical renewed yearly or 6 mthly.:ugh:

[bentleg]

Ok bentleg lets look at it from CASA's point of view...

"Gee only 200 odd pilots bothered to respond to our online POL about Medical fees and only one is an AOPA member...68 were airline pilots who can either afford it or their emplyers can...68 were doctors and we're not really interested in their opinion because they aint paying...which means no one gives a flying ****, or the ones that do we have already chased off to RA Aus, so lets introduce $130 user pays fee for doing feckall..win win"


There was more than one AOPA member. There was one submission FROM the AOPA. Lets not get confused....

I think you will see Class 2 medicals being signed off by DAMEs in the not too distant future. We just have to wait and see. The $130 has no future for Class 2 medicals. CASA will price every GA pilot out of existence (or off to RAA). Self regulation for GA like happens in the RAA and the Gliding Federation is the way forward for GA, and get rid of CASA involvement. CASA say they are listening...... but will they act? It will take a :mad: long time before self regulation happens......

We need to get away and find an administration that actually focuses on our sector.

I agree. Self regulation of GA could become another thread (off topic for this one).

[KezFlyer]

With my CASA medical i didn't have too many problems, what I did have problems with is the doctor. After waiting patiently for a month (from having the medical) I got a letter from CASA advising me I had to have the ECG redone (they had put the right lead on my left arm and vice versa) so then had to wait another month after resending that ECG, to add insult to injury when I advised the doc I had mild shortsightedness he told me I am wasting my time and will never get a job with the big boys. No thats exactly what you want to hear when you're shelling out $50 big ones on training!

On the whole CASA were good, its the quacks you have to watch out for! Still think $130 is a rip off though for a piece of paper and a stamp?

[WilliamOK]

Yeha, the doctor forgot to send my ECG report as well, but CASA didn't bother to tell anyone so after about 2 months of no medical, I called CASA to find out what the dealio was and they said 'oh the doctor hasn't send the ECG'. Nice of CASA to tell me or the doctor that it wasn't sent, so I had to call the doctor and get him to send it. A bit of mucking about later and two weeks after the mucking about my medical appeared in the mail box.

[jsmitty01]

My DAME had forgotten to sign the paperwork before he sent it to the CASA. After a month I received a CC'd letter from the CASA saying that the paperwork was being returned to the doctor for his signature before they could proceed. It was good to be informed and two weeks later my medical arrived.

The day they change the D in DAME from 'Designated' to 'Delegate' is the day we can cut the CASA out of the loop when it comes to medicals.

[KezFlyer]

My tip for kicking CASA up the arse is CALL THEM (ALOT) I called a week after my medical at the doc to check they received paperwork, they said it was being processed and gave a relatively accurate timeline, at which point I received the messed up ECG letter, called them again to check they received the new ECG (this is where it really worked as the operator checked my application and realised it should be going off that week) Then called again to check where it was and the guy advised me over the phone that I had passed and I received the paperwork that day.

They might be sick of me by now but hey who cares, I got everything through quicker than most!

[kiwiblue]

Just out of interest... I sat Class 1 Meds on 16 January, was charged for the assessment about 2 weeks ago, received the documents today!!! My application for an ASIC was posted in the same envelope, card charged in early February but am still waiting to receive the document! Amazing service we get out of user pays, isn't it?