Expats with virgin nigeria [Archive]

whitedove2

16th Mar 2007, 01:07

I happen to have lots of friends from the US, Europe far/middle east, Asia, who have been flying and living in Nigeria for many years.
Some stay at 5 star hotels within the city while others live in apartments and im told its a wonderful experience cos the people are nice friendly and helpful, and the place is comfortable.
Obviously social infrastructure might not be as developed as in western nations, however the people seem determined to correct mistakes of the past and continue to make progress no matter how difficult and challenging the task is.
Statistics prove that crime in the capital city Lagos, is far less than in new york city.

ohnoriceagain

16th Mar 2007, 03:02

I have been there and you have no clue what are you talking about:eek:
with one ride in Lagos you have 99% cances to be stopped and robbed and maybe killed.:}
probably the Nigeria you are talking about is not in Africa:rolleyes:
i suggest you to not trust your friends anymore if its true what they have told you:E
anyway go there and have a look sure it will be a good experience if you happen to survive:E

MungoP

16th Mar 2007, 05:25

WhiteDove2...
Ohhh that's brilliant... so funny ... I'm forwarding it to just about everyone... can't stop laughing :D That bit about it being safer than New York ...wonderful stuff... you should be writing for Rowan Atkinson... Well done..keep it coming.. hahahahahah yyyeeeeehhhaaaaaa :ok:

surely not

16th Mar 2007, 06:05

Oh here we go again, pilots who last flew in to Lagos 15-20 years ago talking as if it was yesterday :mad:

I have spent quite a good part of 17 months working in Lagos and Kano in the last 2 years and the views of Mungo P and noriceagain don't fit with my views at all. I am an Oyinbo, not a West African, but I can honestly say that I didn't feel that Nigeria was a rampant crime centre if you didn't wander into the middle of Oshodi market, or start treating the locals like dirt. The comparison with New York was probably meant to cover the dodgy areas that the city of NY has, just like London and Paris etc.

My accommodation was at the Sheraton in Ikeja to start with. A souless hotel and without too many places to go nearby, but there is a restaurant called Londoners plus a couple of other bars that are near by if you have your own driver and transport.

Latterly I was in a boutique Hotel on V.I. and close to all the restaurants and bars of this area. I even rode an Okada or two :} when transport couldn't get me to Pats Bar.

Sure the roads are ****e, the power cuts frequent, the noise of the city goes on 24 x 7, and yes there are muggings and robberies just like in any major city in the World, but I didn't see any of the violence or suffer from it first hand.

The quote with one ride in Lagos you have 99% cances to be stopped and robbed and maybe killed. is utter alarmist rubbish.

Not everyone likes the place, several that I worked with disliked it's rawness with a passion, others actually grew to like it and its people a lot. Different strokes different folks I guess.

MungoP

16th Mar 2007, 06:19

Surely not...
I have first hand knowledge of the worst areas of the Bronx... have wandered through the Latino and Black areas around the worst public housing projects.. and not been bothered... If you think a white guy can do that around Lagos ( away from the Sheraton ) you'd be wrong... yes.. I might be mugged in NY.. or London.. or Paris... or even a small market town in the south of England... but I WILL be mugged..and probably seriously hurt ( just for the hell of it ) in Lagos. And it wasn't anything like 15 years since I was there...

LongJohnThomas

16th Mar 2007, 11:37

Just to add to what SN has said, and being a Nigerian myself, it would be expected that i would jump to the defence of my beloved country.
On the contrary, i would say, it's all about perception.
Mungo P and norice have very distorted perceptions of what Nigeria is like.
I have many expat friends who have worked, and still work in Nigeria, and having been there not so long ago, i can assuredly back SN by saying your comments are ABSOLUTE GARBAGE!
Everyone, regardless of nationality or ethnic origin or race, will have something derogatory to say about conditions which are alien to them.
To say that London is safer than Lagos is a relative term, as i know that hanging around Brixton even as a black man could end in a stabbing or mistaken death!
These are things that are present in every country. I must go forward to say that the colour of your skin (white) buys you more respect and caution in Nigeria. Thieves are known to have harassed foreigners to get Forex off them, but never to kill them or cause bodily harm. They happen to be conscious of the consequences of their actions if it ever develops into a diplomatic issue. Besides, ask the expats that these things happened to, they strayed into areas that i being Nigerian, would be apprehensive to even approach.
I must say at this point that the police in Nigeria practice a zero tolerance system for thieves and armed bandits. They shoot such at sight. I am sure others would agree with me on this.
For you to sit on your backsides and put others down does not speak well for a matured and exposed lot which i assume you lot to be, at least i see that you can make English compositions and can actually operate or manipulate computers.
The judge of all things for those who believe, remains God, and not any of you.
Let every man make a fair evaluation of a place unbiased by comments or preconceived notions sold by others who CANNOT hold their own out there.

surely not

16th Mar 2007, 12:58

MungoP I can assure you that not only did I walk on several occassions to a bar about a mile from the Sheraton, I also walked from the Head Office on VI to the hotel a couple of times without any harrassment other than from the dtreet vendors, but they hassle anyone to try to get a sale. I know others who actually live off compound in Lagos without any problems.

It is not a guarantee that you will be attacked if you step out of your Pajero in Lagos; unwise to repeat on a regular basis maybe, but not a guaranteed mugging. Where does the bit about 'seriously hurt just for the fun of it) come from? I don't think 'Happy Slapping' has caught on yet in Nigeria, that is a peculiar Western idea, as is youths video recording attacks on their unsuspecting victims.

Once you get into the North of the country it is even safer. More primitive from an accommodation point of view, and surely you will be stared at as a bit of an oddity as a white skinned person, but MOST Nigerians are keento be friendly and helpful......................maybe it was how you approached them.

ohnoriceagain

16th Mar 2007, 14:31

well guys are you kidding me?
i havent any ethnic or race pregiudice and i didnt make any comparison between Lagos or NYC or LOndon.
IMO Nigeria is a dangerous place thats it...and its dangerous because criminality doesnt give a s**t to your life or their life...and in Lagos you are a walking target (and you can feel it)... Im sorry but this is my experience.
Having said that I love Africa and its people.

ohnoriceagain

16th Mar 2007, 14:42

Im sure police practice zero tollerance with thieves:eek:
infact if the thieves take all the money out of you theres nothing let for the police:E @#$%$#@%$#@:mad:
i believe that the help you can receive from this forum is collect many different opinions and experiences:ok: ...so this is my experience and someone else experience might be different but that doesnt change mine:}

akounamatata

16th Mar 2007, 17:23

sn and ltj

at least 10 pilots have been shot dead in the last 15 years
from areo to mobile to chanchangui to the presidential fleet have lost crew to armed robers.
just about every pilot have been robed at least once;
the londoner that sn is talking about is one of the place where this killers relax b4 and after operation,the securityguard in the block next to virgin nigeria guest house in shonibare estate was hinding arms for assasin until 3 weeks ago b4 he was killed by mopol(kill and go).

NIGERIAN are friendly,but NIGERIA IS NOT A SAFE PLACE

armed robers kill everything and everybody chinese mexican muslim christian french american anything....

just pray that when they come for u (and believe me they will) that there are experienced armed robbers and not starters.

and when they come look to the ground dont look them in the eyes or that may the last time you ll c anything again ever.
anyway if u feel like coming and joining us you are welcome we are survivors
i let u know how we do it..........;

LongJohnThomas

16th Mar 2007, 20:14

Akmt(No problem),
I must say that knowing who you happen to be, surprises me that you have the gall to make such a deduction.
Yes, some pilots have been killed in the past and yes, many more maybe.
I'll start by educating you, first of all, was there any one of them who was not well known to the public?
It so happens that in Nigeria, if you make yourself popular and happen to have just a bit of change, you will be robbed by those who most likely hang around the areas where you'd usually have the odd drink and boast of how much you have or such.
Keeping a low profile and shying away from confrontation can be an added advantage in our jungle mate.
Like i said before, it's all about perception. But we'll just let that rest for now.
The point here is whether it's habitable for expats? The answer, as SN is a living witness to, IS YES!!!
I have had 3 brushes with the men of the underworld of Lagos in the past; i am a pilot and I'm still alive, how about that?
If you cannot prove what you say to be true, please keep it to yourself.
I am a Nigerian and very proud to be one, and despite my country's shortcomings, i will do whatever it takes to move it past what it has been painted with in the past.
I can only try to change the lousy perceptions which are sold out to individuals hoping to make something of themselves regardless of location.
As much as i believe we all are entitled to our individual opinions, i also think the point behind sharing views, is not to be derogatory.

nuclear weapon

16th Mar 2007, 23:43

Akmt and Mp
As a nigerian I find your postings very alarming. Crime in nigeria is the same as any other city in the world. I am currently based in the UK where five black students have been killed by thier school mates in the past two months all this in london not to mention the bankers in chelsea, pastors, innocent men trying to protect thier childeren you name it.To make things worse this are kids under the age of 17 what will they do when they grow older.

Crime is part and parcel of every society and my country is no different. Yes I might feel safer in london walking home in the middle of the night or picking up a brand new car and starting a cross country journey in the middle of the night becauce I am sure nobody will jump out from the side of the road to rob me.

But having spent my entire youth in nigeria 20+ years the trick as I have discovered is not to show off as ljt said. I know people that have been robbed four times in a single year yet we have never been robbed and pray to God almighty it remains that way. Avoid spraying money at parties as these robbers are there scouting for victims. The best advice that will guarantee your safety is to maintain a very low profile and clearly avoid going to some areas at a particular time of the day.

Good luck.

InSoMnIaC

16th Mar 2007, 23:49

Hi Guys,

I would just like to say that i recently passed the interview and sim assessment with VK. I have been offered a position for a start date as soon as 2 months from now.

I have never been to Lagos. I am very adaptable to any differences in Culture, Climate etc. However from what i read from some of you guys It sounds like I don't stand a change of living in lagos. I mean come on is it really that bad. I find it very hard to believe that EVERY pilot has been mugged in lagos at least once.

I am sure that if you show respect, keep a low profile and mind your own business that you'll be fine.

I would urge the guys criticising Lagos to be fair on people like myself who are contemplating on moving there. Ie don't exaggerate the bad things

eg "with one ride in Lagos you have 99% chances to be stopped and robbed and maybe killed."

ohnoriceagain

17th Mar 2007, 00:34

InSomNiac go there give it a shot.
but try not to get shoot:}
if you think that what have been said is not fair .... well you cant even imagine what has not been told:E

Flying Touareg

17th Mar 2007, 04:39

I LOVE NIGERIA ESPECIALLY LAGOS.CANT WAIT TO GET BACK:ok: :p

akounamatata

17th Mar 2007, 06:34

ltj

sorry bros,i had no intention of hurting nobody feeling.
but the fact is lagos in particular is not a safe place to live.
we in aero used to have contract with air france,just to fly there crew to sleep in neighbouring country benin(cotonou).why? because the crew bus was robbed twice btw the airport and hotel.

the first reason why aviation is so developed in nigeria is because the roads are not safe,and that is not only because of maintenance.

and yes all the pilots that been shot dead where low profil pilots.maybe i should but i will not name them....
sn is not to be taken has a example his position in the company would have allowed him to be provided with all the security he may need,and he was in the sheraton wich is pretty secure,this will not be the same for the rest of people,don t get me wrong here in aero we have at least 10 expats who have been in nigeria for at least 20 years and more,but it s by choice,u have to work with all the insecurity around,that s all!!!

i m sorry if u feel my opinion is derogatory,but it is the truth.

we has nigerian are very proud of the country even with all the killing and robbery etc ....maybe it s because we have nowhere else to go.

nigeria is good (nice countryside etc..)
nigerian are very hepful,hospitable in general ...

but has for security :sad: :( :mad: :} :ugh: :=

well,let the expat come and find out by themself

and thank you for educating me it will always be my pleasure;)

thanks again and i beg make u no vex

18left

17th Mar 2007, 08:09

99% chance of been killed,you should be in hollywood your talent will be well appreciated.
you are to dumb to figure out that most pilots posting live here in lagos,i wonder how we are alive if theres a 99% chance of harm to us by leaving in lagos,you think we will be able to reply your sensless post?
by the way i have lived in lagos all my life and my first encounter with armed robbers was in london paddington tube station over 10 years ago!

ohnoriceagain

17th Mar 2007, 14:32

well at least i have a talent and you are not even able to read:=
i said 99% you will be robed .... and maybe killed.... and i said also that was my experience.
your name calling is inappropriate like your quoting that most of the people posting here is living in Lagos which is not...actually not even yourself is living in Lagos.
and if you are from Lagos your aggressive manners are a demostration of what Im talking about:ugh:

ohnoriceagain

17th Mar 2007, 14:42

again i like to point out that this forum is a place where pilots can express their opinions and tell rumors to help other pilots to take a decision.
everything im saying is based on my experience so if someone has a different experience is welcome IMHO.
:ok:

chuks

17th Mar 2007, 16:36

I like the bit about what statistics can prove. Who provides the statistics, anyway? Lagos is unsafe, period. Is it more unsafe than New York City? Who cares? I don't plan any midnight strolls through Central Park, I can tell you that much!

From the time I spent in London recently I can agree that it, too, doesn't make an entirely pretty picture. What does that have to do with safety in Lagos, though?

I almost got my check cancelled on the way to work at Murtala Muhammed Airport, Ikeja, Nigeria in a crew bus, okay? My personal behaviour didn't come into it at all, except for the part where I bent waaaay over while the hot lead went whizzing past; it wasn't as if I were leaning out the window shouting at all the rowdy natives to clear the path for a White Man when the trouble kicked off.

I have a lot of good feelings for Nigeria and Nigerians but that doesn't mean that I would want to tell someone it is relatively safe when it isn't, not at all.

Put it this way: I have sent one of my children to visit New York City, under loose adult supervision. The wife and kids have visited London several times. Would I let anyone dear to me go to Lagos, though. There is just no way in hell! It is a place to go to work for lots of money, when you want to be very, very careful. If you are white your skin will make you a target and if you are black then you can expect to share the everyday hazards of Lagos; either way you can be in for a rough ride.

Only a fool would maintain Lagos, Nigeria is not a very dangerous place. Hey, it is a big city and it is not as though everybody everywhere is falling victim to crime there but when you spend some time there the stories do add up about people being robbed and killed.

I am a proud citizen of the USA. From that do you think I should tell you to enjoy Central Park by moonlight? It might be the last sight you ever see.

Just read the 'travel advisories' from the US State Department, ok? Don't bother with comments one way or the other here, just read what the experts have to say.

LongJohnThomas

17th Mar 2007, 18:33

It's now my guess that you all got shot and killed in the 99% chances, eh?
Put a sock in it guys, you lack valid points here.

stubby4inch

18th Mar 2007, 03:49

Hello boys,

I lived in Lagos for 3 years across from the IKEJA, Sheraton, had dinner there many times, and NEVER ever was robbed.

So what r u talkn about?

buncha noise on dis channel, say agin, you're comin in stupid.

ciao.
and pm me if youze have any questions.

da oyibo don fear, and no dey sho for face. sorry o.

love da country.

chuks

18th Mar 2007, 07:45

If you decide to go to Lagos, Nigeria and you get into an argument with a local (of that there is a 99% chance, since Lagosians are hot-blooded and disputatious) you will find that logic flies right out the window to be replaced by some variation on 'This is my country!' You may well think, "'Yes!' but what does that have to do with your car being parked in the side of our car?"

The local mindset, as you may here notice, is that the local knows absolutely 'what is what' and the foreigner is not allowed to comment.

This thread one will deteriorate into the usual slanging match, if it hasn't already. Just check the travel advisories before you go. When you get there check with your country's embassy for security advice.

We used to get pages of reports on security incidents in Lagos from the British High Commission, all very detailed with times and places, when this man was robbed of his car, that one was in a bush bar that was shot up, etc., etcetera. This was coming from people with no agenda at all, there to get along with the local people, being, after all, 'diplomats.'

I used to answer a friend who would moan about how I was risking my neck by pointing out that I would be in just as much danger in New York City under certain circumstances, hmmm? She didn't have any reply to that one.

On the other hand, in the case of our gun attack, it was pretty clear that the cops were not really in the business of chasing gunmen. I think we were expected to pay extra for that.

surely not

18th Mar 2007, 08:33

Well in 17 months I didn't have a Nigerian shouting at me, so where did I go wrong? :}

The trouble with putting a percentage on things is that statistics can be warped to back up most arguments. Very true that Nigerians are a very loud people when upset and will turn up the volume in the mistaken belief that he who shouts loudest is right; but then they also laugh long and loud when enjoying themselves which is also a regular event.

The government travel advisories are usually so vapid and general that they can only be taken as an indication. Full of Government fudge and fence sitting, they will not offer a definite opinion in case someone has a bad experience and sues them because there was nil warning from their Govt.

Can you imagine how busy the incident reporters would be if every firearms event in a major USA City was circulated, let alone every mugging. However it is an almost expected part of life so only the major events get reported in the newspapers.

Lets try to keep some perspective on this thread. Lagos has its dangerous areas, and it is unusual for an expat to walk anywhere, or drive themselves. However going there does not guarantee that you will be mugged, killed, tortured or anything else of that sort and it is possible to go to the shopping mall, cinema, restaurant, pub or club and live to see another day.