Etihad in flight engine fail

[MAXMEDLO]

Flying today within jeddah 134.4 and we heard an etihad flight (107 I recall) declaring a pan pan due to loss of an engine, what was really worrying was the way jed ATC was pushing the guys into telling him what was going on before even corresponding professionally to there immediate request to descent, good job from the etihad chaps keeping their cool while jed was in a chaos, one guy on the freq even told jed to give them some time.

[popay]

Oh please folks it's getting annoying really. Can anything happen in the sky without being posted on the pprune within 5 min? Come on lets give it a bit of a brake. Why don't we just let the things go it's way. If there was something out of order I'm sure EY will have no hesitation to deal with it.:ok:

[MAXMEDLO]

I'd say more than 9 hours ago would have been more percise,I was expecting it to be posted already by some one else earlier:}

[4HolerPoler]

I was on the frequency as well - the north-bound Etihad guy called a PAN, requesting immediate descent and the reaction from Jeddah was regretfully, entirely predictable - absolutely nothing. They called again. Nothing. They made a third call and Jeddah made a garbled response with a request for their callsign - this after they'd clearly announced their callsign three times in the past minute.

The EY guy who'd been really cool was loosing it & told Jeddah that he was out of his cruising altitude, descending 250. Jeddah said that was fine with them but still sounded like they didn't have a clue why they wanted to descend.

It finally dawned on our man in Jeddah that something was amiss & it was now that he chose to call the EY - three times in ten seconds - the guys were obviously busy with things like checklists & speaking with the crew and/or pax and didn't respond immediately to the call.

They had a decreasing oil quantity - I don't know if it was real or an indication issue; last I heard them they were going into Amman with the affected engine at idle.

In summary - a well annunciated call goes completely over their heads because it is not the usual position report and it takes a while for them to catch up, at which time they want to know every last detail oblivious to the fact that the crew is busy dealing with the situation. Surprised? ;)

4HP

[Tail Rota]

Hi Guys

Had a real cargo fire over Iran about 18 months ago, just as we crossed Papar. Put out a PAN call to Iran which was upgraded to a May Day once we realised it was not controllable. :cool:

We turned back to Dubai while trying to communicate with Tehran control.......and guess what! .....we never estabilished any communication of any substance with Tehran over our emergency. I told them twice in very plain and simple language what was going on........:ugh:

We changed immeadiatley to UAE and got the help we needed. On leaving the Tehran Freq we heard another Aircraft relaying our very clear and precise infomation to Tehran control and that we had diverted to Dubai.:ok:

This was a eye opener for me and a lesson well learned.....we are on our own fellas. ...reduce the ND scale to 40nm so you can see any traffic within range and just go go go. ...they will eventually catch on.:E

Be safe
TR:ok:

[mutt]

The Jeddah reaction sounds extremely similiar to how they reacted to the Nationair DC8........ :{ :{

EY should file a complaint with a copy to the ICAO oversight committee.

Mutt

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Not quite sure what popay's issue with the thread is. The thread starter is not having a crack at EY and the resultant thread has started some valuable discussion about how different units handle emergencies, which is invaluable for pilots and also ATCO's working in the neigbouring FIR's to know.

From a UAE perspective, we are required to do Emergency Training at least once a year (on our day off mind you :yuk: ), in which all these sorts of scenarios are played out in the simulator and we take it very seriously and have to pass it to stay operational (and guys have failed in the past). I would say it is not just good luck that our response is better to emergencies than some other FIR's, but good training. I hope it continues to be the case.

I would be interested to know how much Emergency training Tehran and Jeddah actually do, and how it is done. As Mutt said, even though I am doubtful as to its affect, put complaints in writing, as that is the only way things can change. That also goes for the UAE FIR. If you aren't happy with something write a complaint because they all get investigated fully, and are replied to quickly, and that's how things change/improve.:ok:

[Sinbad1]

:=
AirNoServicesAustralia (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=39687)

"I would be interested to know how much Emergency training Tehran and Jeddah actually do, and how it is done."


This part of the world have the best equipment money can buy, The only problem is when things Go Tits :mad: -up, The immediate reaction is "What do I do now???". Take yesterday incident at DXB for example total chaos, say no more.

And well done MAXMEDLO (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=107922) for your inital posting.:D

[popay]

AirNoServicesAustralia, hi there. Well, I'm neither pro nor am I contra EY or Jeddah though I hate it when they don't respond after one called in for the fourth time. Never mind, what I don't like to see is pprune turning into some kind of unofficial investigation board where everyone involved and not starts to judge who's right and who's wrong. WE can study a closed case where all cards are on the table and learn from that. Just remember one thing Innocent till proven guilty. I know it's all rumors and stuff but do we have to turn into tabloid format we get pushed under the door on the layover. At the end of the day if something was wrong let it go it's official way. Just my thoughts.:ok:
P.S The right course of action in this case would be if EY crew or anyone else being directly or indirectly involved files an ASR provided they think it's safety related. That's if you really apt to change anything but it takes some courage, I'm afraid.:ok:

[Dr. Evil]

This part of the world have the best equipment money can buy

Excuse me?????

[Tivoli Vertigo]

EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT WAS READY COZ THEY THOUGHT IT WAS DIRE EMER.... DUH!:yuk:

Pretty normal in ATC (worldwide). Any technical situation would require ATC to call at least a local standby. Our procedure not yours.

I know it can look bad for the passengers, but hey, better safe than sorry :rolleyes:

[Sinbad1]

:cool:
A332 EYV:zzz:

"I THINK THEY HAD... OIL QTY LOW,LESS THAN 5 QT., AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING UNTIL GONE AT.... 0.1 QT, ALL PARAMETERS NORMAL, EXCPT FOR OIL TEMPERATURE INCREASING"


Normally You get high oil temp warning with Single chime associated with Master caution and an Amber display on the LH lower part of the Upper ECAM when the engine Oil temp exceeds 160°C (320°F) for more than 15 minutes or it exceeds 175°C (347°F) at any time (ENG 1 OIL HI TEMP). The corrective action for this type of defect is to shut down the engine, this is Airbus recommendation. Is it EY QRH procedure to retard the engine rather than shut it down, I wonder. Also I would think that Low oil pressure warning would have been ON and associated with continuous chime and RED display on the lower part of the LH side of the upper ECAM(ENG 1 OIL LO PR)as well as red display of the Number under the curve of that engine indicating in red on the lower ECAM, the recommendation if that happen also is to shut down the engine. I would think that This engine is well and truly cooked. In my opinion the engine should have been shut down to prevent farther damage to the engine and possible fire. That engine lost all its cooling system, It is amazing that no catastrophic event had happen. Very lucky.:ok:

[DesertHawk]

Sinbad were you the fly on the wall in the cockpit cause as far as i know this is all speculation keep your conclusion on how they handled it to yourself until the final report comes out. unless u already know what actually happend casue u were there!!!!!!

[chinny]

Just reading this post amazes me how quickly a thread degenerates.:ugh:
It started out as info on an emergency......then went to barrating ATC......which they thoroughly deserve over there.........to having a go at the crew.......which the whole truth is not public knowledge yet.
At the end of the day, like the Bangladesh 310, the guys handled it well-it is after all ,what we train for and do in the sim, so when it happens for real all that is different is the language.
There will always be the ones on here that are out for the witch hunt-should have done this, i would have done that, not company policy-WHO GIVES A SH*T.
Good on you guys-got it on the ground-no dead/injured-lessons learned if any.:D
chinny
VTSP

[Arctaurus]

Sinbad - I hate to inject some facts here. But if it was a Trent, the ECAM oil temp warning is generated at 190 degrees C.

The FCOM procedure is to gradually reduce the thrust to try and contain the temperature rise. It then goes on to say to shut the engine down only if the condition exists at idle.

For the Trent engine, the FCOM is somewhat DIFFERENT to your interpretation of what should be done.

I will be following the ACTUAL FCOM if you don't mind, and by the sounds of it, that's pretty much what the crew on this occasion did.:ok:

[Sinbad1]

:confused:
Quote

"Sinbad - I hate to inject some facts here. But if it was a Trent, the ECAM oil temp warning is generated at 190 degrees C."

EYV and EYW is the only A330 on EY fleet fitted with GE CF6-80!!:ok:

I assure you when you have lost all the oil in the engine,Whats left?? When you start the engines, the first parameter you observe is the Oil Press, Am I right? and If you do not have oil pressure ?? you shut down the engine. No matter what make RR OR GE OR PW. The aircraft lost the whole oil QTY, Hight temp, followed by loss of oil Press, you shut down or you are asking for trouble. The temp inside the combuster is 2000 °C ,how an earth the engine will maintain cooling. Would you keep running your car if you lost the entire oil QTY??? :ok:

[tej]

Hi Sinbad
Glad you have been in the aircraft. :ugh: One of the first things a pilot learns in his aviation classes is : Get facts before making up you mind...
I think you should go back to step 1 .... even if you think you do not have to.. :E

[Sinbad1]

:confused:
This is not about arrogance, but its about facts. I do not know which airline you work for but it might pay you to go and visit the training school and ask with regards to this issue.

After all it is an Airbus Recommend action, better still visit the Airbus Representative office where you work, Will see who is the arrogant.
At the end of the day every pilot/engineer responsible for his own action.You are free to do what ever you like and you do not have to take my advice or any one else for that matter.:=

[semper fi]

Did anybody make mention to the fact that if you are etops certified and you do an IFS, that screws up your etops certification??? The guys did it right, landed with the engine at idle and had maintenance check it. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get etops certified again??:confused:

[MAXMEDLO]

I see that some guys own oil temp is rapidly increasing on this thread, anyhow, all of us being pilots in major airlines I hope, I was wondering which airspace in this area of the world would you rather have a Pan or mayday call announced, and since pilots only enjoy multiple questions( I wonder why?:E ), let me give you some options;

A-Dubai B-Bahrain C-Jeddah D-Muscat E-Kuwait F-Iran(including Boushehr)

MAX:ok:

[Sinbad1]

semper fi
Quote
"Did anybody make mention to the fact that if you are etops certified and you do an IFS, that screws up your etops certification??? The guys did it right, landed with the engine at idle and had maintenance check it. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get etops certified again??:confused:

Hi All
"I do not know why some of you are getting upset with what I wrote. I never criticised the crew for their action, All I wrote what airbus recommend during such condition. This is why I wrote in my previous post " I wonder what EY QRH recommend) from procedure point of view, NO MORE NO LESS. I wonder how some of you would really react if you were criticised.I am on you side any way.

As for the ETOP procedure, This aircraft lost the ETOP cat any way. Idle or no Idle, and if I may say this, the oil system on an ETOP aircraft is critical item, Which means even if you disturb the two engine oil system simultaneously while servicing the aircraft under normal condition, the aircraft have to be re-certified again. To get the aircraft certified again it is just a flight test for the duration of the ETOP specified time.:ok:

[REACH-69]

I think the guys did a great job and sorry to interrupt ,but after all this technical info...........Etops certification.....does the EY QRH mention anything about landing at the nearest suitable airport ,cause at one occasion JED controller asked for AMM ETA ,if i am not mistaken and i think they were closer to HAIL at the time of the incident......pls correct me if i m wrong ( just to clarify ).

[TURIN]

Erm, Sinbad old fruit. From my recollection, isn't oil used to lubricate and bleed/fan/ambient air used for cooling?

Just a thought, what with all these jibes about FACTS etc. :=

[Arctaurus]

Sinbad old boy - If you care to re read my post, I specifically referred to the Trent. :ugh:

I think you need to take an aspirin and lie down for an hour or so.:D

[bus787]

GULFAIR used to suffer a lot of engine probs.Luckily since the maintance has been changed to SR.not anymore .
Food for tought EY aircraft maintained by Gamco???:ugh:

[Severely Jetlagged]

If you guys can not handle another opinion based on reporting from one of the flight crew (Y O Y)

From YOY: I Think The Crew Handled It Well.... There Was A TRE On Board As Well

If YOY was one of the flight crew then he would know that the person onboard was not a TRE but a Nominated Commander and probably the worst one we have. Thankfully the Captain under check knew what he was doing.

[semper fi]

Well, guess the thread has gone its course, having established the facts and what not eh? Too bad things always take a turn in the wrong direction.
peace.:ok: