Skippers to offer pilots 20% pay rise.

[captwawa]

Skippers are poised to offer their aircrew an unprecedented 20% pay increase as a desperate attempt to stem the flow of what little experience is left.

The company is now staring at the reality of parking planes against the fence as aircrew numbers almost halve. The company has finally woken up to its ways after losing the first few of several contracts. The floored notion that pilot attrition is a direct result of pilots ‘wanting to fly a jet’ is going to be an expensive lesson.

The re-writing of the company business operations manual will soon have the word ‘Asset next to the word Pilot’ as opposed to dispensable.

Watch this space, and please don’t ask me to reveal my source as I will politely tell you to move on ;)

[illusion]

Rumour has it that the CP Mr. C is evening sending resume's to the jet operators. But don't worry Swanny, he has screwed enough pilots in his time at Skippers that his reputation preceeds him...........:p

[KRUSTY 34]

illusion,

I've known a few CP's like that in my time. Management lackys, when they should be representing the best interests of the pilots in their charge. She's a small industry brother, and only getting smaller. Good luck to them and bring on the karma.

Sorry 'bout the thread drift.

If true, methinks they may be attempting to close the barn after it's bolted.

Pro-activity has never been the strong suite of most aviation managers that I have encountered over the years. Maybe time for a rethink boys.

Let the games begin!

[Led Zep]

Phhhhhwoar! Them "cadets" who have bought themselves a job have landed on their feet!! :} :D

[Angle of Attack]

Interesting times with the likes of Jet* recruiting plus Virgin Blue with their international 777, plus jungle jets, ops next year, and the likely QF recruitment soon I was wondering when the bite would take effect. It will start at the bottom and not trying to make opinions Im not surprised Skippers would be the first to feel the bite. After all you gotta pay to get in there. I think the first industries to feel the bite will be these turbo-prop operators like Skippers, and I won't be surprised to see it spread. I think the real victims in the near future will be the initial turbo-prob companies, as the lack of suitable applicants will start to really take the toll. As a plus side the decent companies that have looked after their staff will continue to prosper and us fellow aviators will continue to reap the awards. Umm thats all, as for all the other companies, I guess its stiff bikkies! You get what you sow and that will be a feature of the future I gather! People talk of the so called pilot shortage in Airlines etc but where it will really hurt is in the companies such as Skippers, after all why go to Skippers when you can go t Jet* as a cruise F/O on slightly higher pay?? haha .. :}

[dijon moutard]

i have watched the comings and goings at skippers for many years ; the way they treat staff ; the way they bully and cajole people ;the way they charge for endorsements ; the way they pay staff.
gee i'm glad i never worked their and thank god i work under a award that treats staff with respect and rewards a "fair days pay for a fair day's work ".
everyone has start somewhere but if you can give them a wide wide birth !!!!!!

cheers
dijon moutard:ok:

[Capt Wally]

,,,,,,,,,,,sure sounds like Skippers & the likes are now reaping what they invested in in the past as in they gave little & their getting even less these days..........but..........& there's always a but here, the real long term damage will be when companies like Skippers for Eg. have to fold up or reduce in ops size & then offer even less, if that's at all possible. There are no winners here at the end of the day just greed & so called progress, two words that sadly often can be seen together in the field of aviation.

I just hope that pay increases as well as better job satisfaction now showing signs of being offered are two things that can keep our fragile industry going.

Tread carefully out there guys & gals the 'ice' of aviation is indeed at times very thin ! Good luck to all

.......we pilots may "win" in the end..........but at what cost?

Capt Wally

[No Idea Either]

So what happens to the mostly mining contracts if Skippers, Airnorth, M@cair, Jet Craft et al, can't get crews to the mines satisfaction?

[piston broke again]

Any idea of when all this might be happening? I'm guessing it would mean new AWA's to be signed but would they require any commitment in return?

[Over and gout]

Aren't they taking on 300 hour cadets who are paying $35000 for a year in the right seat of a Metro?

I'm sure the auditors on the mining contracts would love to hear about that....:yuk:

[Mr Maverick]

Rumour has it that NJS, who have hundreds of pilots on their books have just had 83% of a 717 intake decline the offer because of the AWA! :D

[piston broke again]

If that's true, I hope everyone can keep it up. It will only result in better conditions for everyone. With the lack of pilots at the moment, maybe that explains the result. More people are able to choose where they want to work rather than grabbing at that first jet job regardless of pay and conditions. Well done guys/gals.

[dijon moutard]

last known pay/award increase was around the year 2000 ; so 20 % pay increase divided by seven years turns out to be stuff-all.
get your hours up quick and get the hell out of the "hell-hole" ; a "ga" company is "ga" company !!!!!!!!!

cheers
dijon moutard :ok:

[Brasilian Bird]

More boys off to Virgin and NJS... run boys, you're getting out just in time!! And more cabin chicks making the jump to the Rat... Good luck to ya!! :} :ok:

Maybe now the managers there will see just how hard these girls and guys who've left in the last few years actually worked... a lot bloody harder than any of them did, I'm sure!! Guess there'll be no more p!ssup weekends in Leeuwin then, eh??? :E

[Taggert]

Is/Are Skippers paying the GA Award(98) or the Regional Airline Pilots Award(03)?

:confused:

[dijon moutard]

Taggert
they dont pay the regional airline award that is for sure ; they have a piece of paper you sign (and not to long because you "ain't getting much in return").
the piece of paper you sign is different each time ; and they always come up new ways on "how to not pay you the going rate".
as for the stories of $35,000 bonded cadets : gee whiz ! ! old charles dickens and stories of those lovely old "work house's" of 19th century england spring to mind.
skippers are certainly reaping those rewards that they insist on giving to pilots on a daily basis.

cheers
dijon moutard:ok:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Maybe they'll get the message if you say:
"Sure, I'll negotiate an AWA. I'll take a 35% increase on your standard wage and you can pay for my endorsement. "
At a bare minimum you'll make them waste there time at hour much an hour? :E

Just flood them with applications and tell them what you will work for.

[Stick Pusher]

so maybe a $5000 pay rise.....? but read the fine print the cost of getting an endorsement will now be $55,000!


:ugh: :D

[Flyingblind]

You guys cant be talking about the same Skippers that i've just read a glowing article in the latest Oz Aviation mag are you? they sound like a fantastic company and an exiting time to be there! :}

[areal]

More boys off to Virgin and NJS... run boys, you're getting out just in time!! And more cabin chicks making the jump to the Rat... Good luck to ya!!

Don't virgin hire girls, Brasilian Bird?

[apache]

an exiting time to be there

yep...exiting it is. EVERYBODY is EXITING.

dunno whether it is exCiting or not. never been there.

[dijon moutard]

the "skippers" of this world are interesting : treat pilots like crap ; pay like crap ; rosters are crap (what rosters ????) ; and life is generally crap @ skippers.
why would you want to leave such a job : because most player's on the next rung up have a little bit more respect for their employees for starters !!!!!
oh i forgot : they also have real rosters and pay heaps more !!!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers
dijon moutard:ok:

[Cypher]

"Don't virgin hire girls, Brasilian Bird?"

Dunno..

but I'll hire a Virgin bird with a Brazilian..... :E


Sorrrrry... couldnt resist...:}

[rockarpee]

Cypher, what are the chances of finding a virgin WITH a brazillian.:E

[Angle of Attack]

EBA's AWA's it doesnt matter when it comes to this situation it does'nt matter Skippers are desperate ATM! This is sweet justice, I hope they reap what they sowed, its so funny now that they are fairly much a GA outfit and everyone else beats them in conditions! lol!! I got so many emails from their recruitment site asking me to apply they really are pathetic!! I slowly ferment in the sweet justice of their misery!:E

[Brasilian Bird]

Of course they do. But as with a lot of companies, the guys far outnumber the girls (Pilots I mean), even at Skips. And lately I've only heard of guys leaving for other jobs. Maybe the girls are just faring better putting up with the sh!t that goes on there...

Award?! They wouldn't know what that is!!! (In any form :E)

[captwawa]

I'm sure that most of you wouldn't be suprised to hear that this was just wishful thinking or just plain BS.

I wanted to throw it out their in cyberspace to see what everyones feelings were on the subject. What I did find interesting was that most recomended to leave the company dispite the hypotyhetical pay rise; and as a few pointed out that the 20% pay rise would only have brought the pay in line with past CPI increases anyway.

I am actually following the goings on of a few companies in the industry at the moment. Skippers seem to be one of the worst and attract a lot of responses. Perfect for fishing.

Thankyou for the interesting reading. I hope the pilots there find a new, happy, well paying home somewhere in the near future.

[flylittlebirdie]

F.O's on casual wages after 18 months with the company, pay for training and wear a bond, move yourself to perth at your own cost.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

This seems like a huge beat up, what is so bad about Skippers ?.

Pilots often act like asses when they leave/get sacked from a company, is this the case ?.

What is a Metro Captain paid in the award, $53-54K odd right, don't Skippers pay more than that ?, how is it they deserve this topic ?.

It would appear some of you have defamed this organisation, why, please be specific, how far below the awards on the AFAP website ?.

Bonding is not an unreasonable concept, if any organisation makes an investment in a staff member, it is reasonable to expect some sort of return on the investment.

No one is forcing you to sign a bond.

Whinging about being a casual co-pilot, do you think the industry owes you a job ?, you accepted the job, if you are not happy, find another job, pay out your bond and leave.

Please set me straight, with facts, not with baseless conjecture.
No i do not work for said company.

[Aquaplaner]

This seems like a huge beat up

:D Very observant, there is not getting much past you is there? :rolleyes:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Aqua,

What is the point of your response ?.

[dijon moutard]

LRT
if you new skippy or somone working in skippy ie ordinary employees you would know the full story of working their.
i work with loads of "ex" employees and it is abmissal what goes on there.
"bonding" done in a civilised and defined manner not a problem.
"casual pilots" not a problem ; but only when prescribed and defined in writing (ie no constant moving goal posts).
"rex" salary rates fine not a problem but "skippy rates" well not too good at all.
awa's well ain't they great for pilots etc.
the list goes "on and on" at skippy.

cheers
dijon moutard:ok:

[bushy]

I remember a CEO of an airmedical operation commenting "I'd rather see that than to see him broke and unhappy"
Someone had told him that one of the pilots had a second job. (he already had a reasonably well paid full time job)
That CEO was smart.
It was not necessary to have a second job with that organisation (I know, I worked there) but this man obviously wanted more. As long as the fatigue factor was managed there was no problem.
There were no part time employees there, and there was a lot of standby time.
Before that I had "gone bush" because there were hardly any full time flying jobs in the city, and part time "freelance" or contract flying was not paying very well.
Working for "pay by the flying hour" was not working.
Many years later I was on the other side of the fence and emloyed pilots and filled gaps by hiring casual pilots paid by the flying hour as stipulated in the pilots (GA) award. Soon I found that this was not working very well either. Casual pilots could not rely on a regular income from regular flying, and I could not rely on the availability of pilots when I needed them.
Casual pilots are, too often "broke and unhappy" and the smart ones are soon gone. But the "obscene lottery" that airline recruiting has become keeps amny of them trying, even though they are angry and unhappy. You just need to read Prune to see that.
In today's climate, full time GA jobs are not common, even out bush. Most are paid by the hour. So happy GA pilots are not common. It seems that happy regional airline pilots are not common.
And this is now affecting regional airlines, and sneaking into the major airlines. There is not really a difference. Flying is flying, and ALL commercial flying including most Australian GA needs stable, reliable, well paid, happy pilots who work long and hard at making things better. You do not get this with temporary pilots, who are paid by the hour (sometimes), or are paying to fly.
I believe we have already paid a very high price in human lives for not treating small aeroplanes as seriously as we should.
People are talking about a pilot shortage, and there will be some movement soon. But our flying schools can train newbies much faster than they are needed, and there are many waiting in the pool of potential airline pilots. So the shortage if there is one will be of experienced prop pilots, and there will be another flood of young hopefuls.
That does not fix the problem. We need a change in how the airlines recruit and train thier new pilots.
I hope some of those who have been waiting for years will get to be well paid and happy.

[Charliethewonderdog]

Casual pilots are, too often "broke and unhappy" and the smart ones are soon gone. But the "obscene lottery" that airline recruiting has become keeps amny of them trying, even though they are angry and unhappy. You just need to read Prune to see that.
In today's climate, full time GA jobs are not common, even out bush. Most are paid by the hour. So happy GA pilots are not common. It seems that happy regional airline pilots are not common.
And this is now affecting regional airlines, and sneaking into the major airlines. There is not really a difference. Flying is flying, and ALL commercial flying including most Australian GA needs stable, reliable, well paid, happy pilots who work long and hard at making things better. You do not get this with temporary pilots, who are paid by the hour (sometimes), or are paying to fly.
I believe we have already paid a very high price in human lives for not treating small aeroplanes as seriously as we should.



This is where the respect for GA pilots MUST start.

[MUNT]

LRT, obviously you haven't come accross too many ex-employees...

Haven't heard of one other company with such a poor reputation, glad I never had the pleasure...

[Brasilian Bird]

LRT, 54 grand for a Metro Captain? In some dream land maybe... you'd make more getting yourself an entry-level office job!

And the crappy pay and conditions/lack of respect extends to more than the pilot group (but as stated not the engineers), they're the only ones making any money besides the CEO and friends... Maybe because they know without them the planes would be sitting on the ground all the time waiting to be fixed... that said, you need pilots to fly them, and pretty soon even that might be a stretch for these guys!!

PS - Slander is individuals, Libel is against a company... it can't be libel if it's true... and the truth is, these people treat their staff like rubbish, ask anyone who's worked there.

Disgruntled ex-employees posting here? Probably. But disgruntled employees are so for a reason; the reason here being that 'Skippy' simply do not value or care about their staff as other companies do. (Ask most who have moved on from, say, Maroomba and just about guarantee it would be for a 'better/bigger'job, not because they were unhappy with how they were treated (and no, I do not work for Maroomba, but it's well known that they DO know how to treat staff)

LRT, if it's what you want, go for it, but only if you can't get in somewhere else that treats you better!

[Howard Hughes]

it can't be libel if it's true...
That may be the case, but you are still required to demonstrate (prove) that it is true, for it not to be considered libel...:8

PS: These are not the only guys who pay the bare minimum wage and are seeing pilots leave! This phenomenon is being repeated all over the country, eventually someone will wake up and provide a decent lifestyle, myself and many others, are more concerned with lifestyle than shiny jets!!:ok:

[Aquaplaner]

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. As Captwawa has alrady explained, the whole thread "Skippers to offer pilots a 20% pay rise" is in fact a big beat up!

[Brasilian Bird]

HH, if it ever came down to it, there'd be more than a few who would tell a court how sh!t they've been treated... as Dijon said, there's quite a few ex-Skippys people around the place who are well rid of that company...

And, put it this way, if they tried to get anyone for saying what's being said here, there's more than enough mud that can be slung back at them re: what goes on behind closed doors... :E :} Which is why they'd never go after anyone at all...

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Aqua, Beat up on the 20% pay rise, i got that the first time.

But the rest of the thread, complaints etc etc, appears a tad baseless don't you think ?.

Brasilian Bird, so why attack this operator, it would appear the problem in this case is the actual "Award" being non reflective of the current climate.

It has been stated here by a number of you guys/gals that said operator does not meet the award, but truth be told it would appear they ( and many other operators ) are infact paying above the award.

If the award is not "up to date" ( is not inline with CPI ), is an issue that needs to be taken up with Industrial Relations.

Will certainly not be solved here by bitching and moaning.

If you think defamation ( be it Slander { spoken word } or Libel { written} ) is hard to prove, perhaps you missed the TACAN400/Dick Smith event recently.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

PS - Slander is individuals, Libel is against a company...
Where did you get that idea? As I understand it Slander is spoken, Libel is written.
Slander - Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
Libel - a defamatory statement or representation esp. in the form of written or printed words

[brown_hornet]

So there I went and splurged out on the weekend and wore out my credit card thinking that I would soon have a fatter looking payslip to pay it all off:{ Captwawa, fantastic windup, I wonder how many skippers crew fell for it:E

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I wonder how many people put an application in thinking it was true?
Captwawa - you aren't the man in charge of recruiting are you??
Watch this space, and please don’t ask me to reveal my source as I will politely tell you to move on It's you, isn't it!! Let me guess... a bonus for getting X number of pilots to apply??? :p

[duck_man]

whats the point in applying when over 70% of the company FOs are cadets in some shape or form. some of the hard working-piston running-people cant afford the 35 Gees to sweep into a metro or the 50 odd to get onto the dash. even asking for 8500 odd is getting a bit steep when you can get a 73 sticker for (what) 30K!
some of these cadets are really running up the ladder too. i know a few people in the company (the poor soles; working so hard for nothing) and ive heard a fresh no idea metro cadet managed to become a conquest fleet manager in less than 10 months? whats going on? :ugh: im sure that some of the rampees have more command time than they do!
whats the point in even attemting to apply? I say the payrise is a good gossip/lure but its a (airline) charter company soley there to make money; unfortunately not for the pilots.
the pot is definately reaching its boiling point and thats probably why everyone is running out of the kitchen!

[JetA_OK]

duck_man, I hear that C441 fleet manager is pretty bloody good mate - shouldn't that be the pre-requisite for promotion?

but its a (airline) charter company soley there to make money

Bloody hell!!!! Do you think they'll hold the front page on the Aus for us in the morning?

[duck_man]

Jeta_ok; really, ive heard otherwise. confusing :confused: .

i still think ill be keeping clear and heading to safer places over east.

out

[roger_ramjet]

Duck Man - I think that was a bit rude calling the the current conquest fleet manager a "fresh no idea cadet" when you have obviously never met him. Skipppers are one of the few aviation companies I have come across that actually look at individual merit and ability when it comes to advancement, not just the bottom line of your logbook. So to do what he has done in such a short period of time is simply testament to his ability, and perhaps a measure of how well some cadets can perform when given the opportunity. I agree that some cadets are in way over their heads in a metro with 200hrs, but with the right training and preparation many can and have done it very well.

Here's another tip - fleet manager has nothing to do with flying experience, it's an administrative position that deals with CASA/recruiting/rostering/maintenance etc, so you need someone with management experience, not 500hrs bashing around in a baron...

[dijon moutard]

Quote from RR :"Skipppers are one of the few aviation companies I have come across that actually look at individual merit and ability when it comes to advancement, not just the bottom line of your logbook".

geez i just "choked" i my weeties when i read this statement : they usually require something else on past exterience.

but look good luck to the individual concerned ; but remember to get "your hours up quick" so that you enjoy "skippy" from afar.

cheers
dijon moutard:ok:

[Much Ado]

And having allowed said individual to be rightly defended I think this thread has run it' course..click.