Which GPS?

[overhere]

Am currently looking to buy a GPS for general VFR & IFR flying.

Have been looking at the following 2 in particular, does anyone have one an would like to comment on their performance etc?

Lowrance airmap 600C and

Garmin GPSMAP 96C.

Thanks!

[transonic dragon]

You can't go wrong with Garmin. They are the industry standard, for good reason. I've actually been in a position to assess a few of the more common handhelds, cos I have had to do ICUS training for a company whose a/c had no GPSs. This mob were doing mailruns in remote areas where visual navigation was difficult due to featureless terrain, and the stations were not marked on WACs (!) :ugh: Therefore I got to see a cross-section of several handhelds which newbies brought with them, and I know which ones work best.

I've got a Garmin Pilot III which has served me well for many years. Not produced anymore, but try the relatively newer models:-

Garmin GPSMAP 96 (excellent compact model, good all-round performer)
Garmin GPSMAP 196 (better model but slightly more bulky)

Both come in kits with yoke mounts and remote antennas (an absolute must).

A great advantage to Garmin units is that they all use remarkably similar menu systems, so if you've used one, you've used them all. Even up to the panel-mount GNS430/530, if you've used a Garmin handheld, these advanced units will seem very familiar, whereas try using a King or Trimble and it's much harder.

What I will say is DO NOT get a colour-screen GPS! They look awesome when you're sitting in your lounge room, and certainly the colour imparts slightly more detail, but the colour screens suffer badly in bright sunlight. Difficult/impossible to read in the sun, battery life is much reduced compared to B&W, and screen life also poor. Therefore, avoid the colour versions (96C and 296).

All Garmin products bought locally have Australian database with airspace, navaids, etc. Naturally, consult your most recent charts for verification!! :rolleyes:

Avoid Lowrance. Avoid Lowrance. They are not the industry standard, and for good reason.

RESIST THE URGE to go cheap and buy a marine/road/hiking unit to save money. Sure you can program in the waypoints you might want, but you just can't beat a unit set up from scratch as an aviation box. A full aviation database is essential, but features such as VNAV, airspace alarms, etc are really valuable once you know how it all works (and it's easy).

That's TD's 2 cents worth. PS I'm definitely NOT paid by Garmin.:E

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Overhere

I don't know where the Transonic Dragon is getting his information from, but I have to disagree completely.

I have -

Garmin III Pilot - good basic GPS - now relegated to the flightbag as emergency backup.

Garmin GPSMap 296 - on the control yolk of the Bonanza. Absolutely magic little machine. I have NEVER had any trouble seeing the colour screen in sunlight (you can turn the brightness up). Can't tell you off the top of my head how long it runs on the battery cause I generally have it on power but I think its about 10 hours. I have looked at upgrading to 396, or 496 but can't convince myself that they are worth it as in Oz we do not have access to all the add-ons like weather, etc.

In the panel of the Bo I have a Garmin GNS430 with the terrain upgrade. Fantastic bit of gear.

I would not look at anything other than Garmin.

I also have a Motion Computing Tablet computer on the yolk of the Bo, running Jeppessen Flightdeck with the GPS info feeding from the GPSMap 296.

If I can help you with any specific questions - fire away.

FTDK:cool:

[George_of_the_Bungle]

haven't used a garmin GPSMAP 96C, although used a GPS Map 295 a couple of times and it is a very sweet unit, no trouble with screen brightness in direct sunlight...can anyone share the pros/cons with buying say a Garmin GPS Map 196 as opposed to forking out another $800-$1000 for a GPS Map 296? Is it really worth the extra dosh?

Cheers

[trolleydriver]

Garmin 96 would have to be the best value for money... neat with no cords running around ya feet etc. I've used them yoke mounted in all types of a/c without external power (lasts over 20hrs on good quality batteries) or external antennas and they've never dropped out. :ok:

[BrazDriver]

Had a Garmin III for years, Greatest thing since sliced bread!
Used a mates Garmin 196 for a few months while he was away, greatest thing since sliced bread rolls!!

The aircraft I am in now just have panel mounted GPS units.

Flew an aircraft with the new garmin (not sure of the number, 550 i think?) panel mounted display with the intergrated intercom, navs and comms, greatest thing since sliced Muffins!!

I ran out of breads towards the end!! Sorry guys!

[das Uber Soldat]

i have an ique 3600a. Absolutely love it.

[Dookie on Drums]

Slight thread drift but can anyone recommend where I could purchase a Garmin 196 preferably within the Sydney area for a fair price?

TIA

[Wheeler]

Dont know why anyone would pay the extra for the Garmin. when the Lowrance does everything the Garmin does and better. I have a 2000c with terrain. Much bigger colour screen than the Garmin too. The Lowarnce comes with all of the 'extras' also has some nice features like runway guidance and you can download all of the maps, datbases etc. I got mine in the States. Many of those sellers will Fedex all kinds of GPS and that kind of stuff to your door with Pacific dadabase and full warranty within a few days. The Aussie taxman does not seem to bother either for under $1000. Just Google! This probably really pees off the Aussie 'agents' but often when you compare the prices either they don't get good wholsale prices or their margins must be pretty high and so it hard to justify giving them the business.

'Overhere', none of these units are approved for IFR, although for some reason they seem to have IFR waypoints (even the RNAV ones - which is a bit of a worry if anyone is stoopid enough to try and use them for an approach.)

[Killer Loop]

I'd have to agree totally with FTDK. I also have the Garmin Pilot 111 in the flight bag as back up but is still a good piece of kit. Have the Garmin 430 with terrain in the panel and have never had a problem seeing detail because of colour issues.

[Launchpad McQuack]

Can you give any specifics? What features do you like etc? I'm contemplating buying one, seen a few of these cheap (ish!) on eBay etc, but have yet to hear from anybody who has actually used one in the field [air] and can comment...would you consider the aviation features of the 3600a worth the :mad: load more $$$ over the standard 3600 model?? All in all it looks to be an impressive unit, and the music functions would go down well with a DC-X11 or Bose X etc...

...and if anybody can point out the negatives, that would be appreciated as well...

Cheers in advance!! :}

PS Before I get lectured, no I do NOT listen to music all the time, especially not during critical stages of flight etc etc....:=

[das Uber Soldat]

well i'll do my best.

I just find the big color map very easy to read in the aircraft, gives me very good situational awareness. With the vertical design of the screen with track up you can see a long way ahead, which is handy.

The features are quite impressive, in my opinion anyway. The way you can display the data is great. I prefer the color map with dist to next waypoint, ground speed, ETA and vertical speed to arrive on profile overlaid. The terrain mode is good too, as long as you do not rely upon it. But if you're forced to fly night vfr, its a handy SA tool if you get a bit behind the aircraft.

It will tell you the wind, your density height, first light and last light. It stores all my regular routes in there, keeps an automatic logbook of all the places i've been and records all my flights with a trace line so i can go back and see where i've flown, look at the shape of my instrument approaches and show my students why their circuits are always too bloody wide. It also has information on every airport that I know of, so I can quickly lookup an airport and find runway info, comms info, fuel info and details about fuel available etc. A few times i've been heading towards airports and had center ring me up and advise that I may not get in. 2 buttons and it displays in order the nearest airports with avgas. Handy.

bad points?

- the battery life is horrendous, on full bright (which you need to use to see it in the sun) it lasts 3-4 hours only, so you really need the cigarette lighter in the a/c to work.

- all the PRD's are in blue, so its a bit difficult at first to see if you're flying into a restricted area.

- it seems to software crash a fair bit, maybe once every 3 flights you have to reboot it.

- It can be hard to use the stylus in bumpy conditions, though you can use the cradle mount buttons for nearly anything anyway.

overall i like it, just wish it took AA's instead of the lith ion battery which you cant take out.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

'Overhere', none of these units are approved for IFR, although for some reason they seem to have IFR waypoints (even the RNAV ones - which is a bit of a worry if anyone is stoopid enough to try and use them for an approach.)

Wheeler - I have a TSO'd GNS430 in the panel, but if I was stuck I would not hesitate to use my GPSMap296 to fly a GPS/RNAV Approach.

FTDK:cool:

[Wheeler]

No worries Forktail. I'm sure you would fill in the required incident report too, assuming you made it without RAIM, CDI etc etc. . Just suggesting that including those waypoints might be unwise in a GPS unit that is not legal to fly any kind of IFR let alone a GPS approach.

Having said that, anyone would do the same if they had no other legal option.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Wheeler

Removing the IFR and GPS/RNAV Appr waypoints from the database would severely limit the value of the unit as a backup to the TSO'd GPS.

The 296 does have a CDI function and my understanding is that the RAIM forcast available through NAIPS is substantially more accurate than the inbuilt RAIM prediction function of units like the 430, and supercedes the units RAIM prediction for an approach.

FTDK:cool:

[J430]

Go the Garmin 296.....best think you can do, but its not a 430, if you need the TSO'd bit.

However to fly off its a gem, and as FTDK suggests if the "good gear" went pear shaped, and flight instruments also, the battery backed 296 would actually save your life, not legally, but it would.

It is a good thing, unfortunately so good it could inspire the RAA or VFR guys o do things they should not!

J:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Product Comparison
I would never go back from the colour screen. Furthermore I think the 296 has a faster processor than the 196 and therefore "refreshes" at a faster rate.

FTDK:cool:

[Miraz]

FTDK:-
I also have a Motion Computing Tablet computer on the yolk of the Bo, running Jeppessen Flightdeck with the GPS info feeding from the GPSMap 296

I'm only asking out of curiosity:-
I take it that this is the LS800? - I have heard reports of hard disk problems with these units in unpressurised aircraft. Have you had any problems with it?

Have you looked at other software solutions for the more open platforms like your tablet?
I've been tinkering with www.pocketfms.com (http://www.pocketfms.com) and I'd like to understand the pros/cons vs the Jep Flightdeck software.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Miraz

I have only had the LS800 to 10k but I generally fly around 9 or 10k. The only problem I have had is occassional overheating, because the LS800 does not have a cooling fan. That problem is now solved because the RamMount people have released a cooling fan for the RamMount mounting for the LS800 that plugs into a USB port on the LS800 - works a treat.

I like the Jepp FliteDeck. Among its many features, it is useful to have the position of the aeroplane displayed on the Approach Plate while flying an approach.

If you don't want all of the features of JeppView and FliteDeck, but just want GPS position to display on electronic charts, then Fugawi is useful.

FTDK:cool:

[Over and gout]

Ive got a Garmin 96C and would highly recommend it.

- Fits in headset bag
- I can get over 50 hours battery life (with good batteries)
- Completely simple to use.
- Hasn't dropped out yet.


Whatever you do DONT get the IQUEUE.. It might be good as a PDA but as a GPS way too user unfriendly.

[J430]

Whatever you do DONT get the IQUEUE..

It runs a windoze operating system........and you would trust that for flying..........no way!!!!!:eek: :eek:

I see posted previously a few reboots are needed from time to time.....I rest my case.

J:}

[BD1959]

J430: It runs a windoze operating system........and you would trust that for flying..........no way!!!!!

Don't ya just hate these so-called smart units?

You sit the iQue down next to your iMate Jasjam and when your back's turned it's swapped its factory loaded Palm OS with WindowsMobile.

BD

[J430]

BD1959

And then it probably locks up on you requiring a reload of all your files and applications!:ugh:

I had the very early iPaq, yeah its kind of useful when they work, but really i ended up calling it a "Wanky Toy", coz that was it. I find the "iSpirax" notepad and "iPencil" works better.....the HB leads run out every year maybe but hey, the upgrades are much cheaper!

If it aint Garmin I aint goin':E

J:ok:

[NZ06AR]

J430

Im gona have to agree wif u ay... garmin are the cutting edge... but i have herd that panel mount bendix/king are also up for the job.... I have a garmin etrex as a back up for vfr, even tho it is for hiking it dose well if u get into the sticky lowish vis situation, it gives u track distances with the benifits of movon map... i also have(past tence it died many times) had an iPaq.... Nerver trust windows mobile...

NZ06AR

[J430]

NZ06AR

Mate the TSO'd bendix/king gear and probably other TSO'd stuff is ok, but the topic was based more around the items of the more portable and non TSO'd gear.

J:ok:

[NZ06AR]

J430

Yea soz for the rant.... i have looked into the garmin 96 but in the end i just didnt have the money... was it a portable that u had mounted in ur plane??

[J430]

NZ06AR

Yeah I have a portable Garmin 296 mounted into the dash, along with a Dynon EFIS. Apparently according to my jealous mate Squawk7700 I have 3 sets of pics of my panel on tis thread. Maybe I am just pretty chuffed with the result for a VFR panel! Look back a few pages.

The guy that designed it is a genious:}

Obviously not so easy in someone elses plane or an existing panle but they come with a yoke mount for those who have a yoke obstucting their cockpit!:E

J:ok:

[185skywagon]

I have had my 296 for a couple of weeks. What a great bit of gear.
3000 user wpts capacity is also good.
Only yoke mounted at this stage. I plan to rack mount it in the 185 soon.
185
http://www.skywagon.info/webshots/296.JPG

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Check out the AVMAP EKP-IV, best daylight readable screen I have seen,(including some large aircraft I can think of, when the sun is over your shoulder) still directly readable with afternoon direct sunlight.
Biggest screen around on a handheld, and the operating system is not unlike an FMS, with line select functions around the periphery.
Not cheap, but competitive with Garmin, with the usual aviation database. Alternative databases for yachting are available, where I think they are known as C-Map.
Tootle pip!!