Gags, Free Speech, Democracy, PPRuNe

[Judicium Dei]

Democracy - really a fiction in Austalia (statement, not question) but what of the benefit of accountability (fetid though that often is) through the likes of PPrune.

Is there legality by Corporations, Government Business Enterprises (ex), Defence bits et al, all gagging employees from posting on PPrune?

Such genocidal silence.

and what about a good old enquiry into our erstwhile government departments at a personal and organisational level. What magic moments that would provide. What happended to the Biff! Where is the independant check and balance.

Ahhhhhhhhhh

[speedbirdhouse]

There are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake for those with shares and options in orangestar.

The Tiggy Fullertons, Chris Masters, Paul Barrys and the like will be dissecting this sordid and corrupt affair in years to come.

Never before have so few, stood to make so much, at the expense of so many. :yuk:

[Track Coastal]

Democracy - really a fiction in Austalia (statement, not question)

Therein lies the problem, Australia is in reality a Plutocracy not a Democracy. Rattailstar and the Govt. is proof of existence of the concept.

(plutocracy

/plootokrhttp://www.askoxford.com/images/phonetics/schwa.gifsi/
• noun (pl. plutocracies) 1 government by the wealthy. 2 a society governed by the wealthy. 3 an elite or ruling class whose power derives from their wealth.
— DERIVATIVES plutocratic adjective. — ORIGIN from Greek ploutos ‘wealth’ + kratos ‘strength, authority’.)

[Jet_A_Knight]

There IS freedom of speech.
































As long as you don't say too much

[lowerlobe]

Track Coastal..Your right and it wasn't always the case,However the birth of Geoffstar is a case in in point.

The fares although cheaper are more of an illusion than reality.Try to book a flight with little notice as a lot of business flyers do.The fare is rarely cheap unless you are lucky especially so with it's new sibling geoffstar international.

So the question is who makes the money?

With Geoffstar the profit is not really there so you look at other reasons for it's existence.One possibility is to lower the wages and conditions of airline employees as a whole.Since then the profit is not really a factor the concept of business's like Geoffstar is to create a US type economy and trackcoastal's description of a plutocracy is more accurate than we might think.

I'm not sure whether pprune would be pressured by any company to delete or reduce any adverse information in the way of posts.However I'm sure there are people in the office of the same company's who do everything they can to steer a thread away from any criticism of themselves.

[Howard Hughes]

Australia is in reality a Plutocracy not a Democracy.
Show me a country that isn't ruled by wealthy people, democratic societies, socialist republics, dictatorships, monarchies, all ruled by the wealthy and all generally in it for themselves. Even or beloved labour party, who claims to be 'for the workers' is mostly made up of people who have never done a days work in their lives.:hmm:

Surely Pilots, ATCers and LAME's can be considered part of the ruling class, I mean they are all loaded!http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/stirthepothal.gif

[lowerlobe]

Howard ..Could not agree more but my point was that PM George W Howard as well as Darth are both seeking to increase the divide between the two groups.

[tail wheel]

Oh, dear! Full moon again?
”I'm not sure whether pprune would be pressured by any company to delete or reduce any adverse information in the way of posts.”
In ten years association with PPRuNe (since the days of one forum and the daily email of posts!) I am unaware of any airline company which has “pressured” PPRuNe. I don’t think the larger airlines really care what is posted on PPRuNe – after all, PPRuNe is not generally read by either their passengers or share holders!
”However I'm sure there are people in the office of the same company's who do everything they can to steer a thread away from any criticism of themselves.”
Really??? :confused: :confused:

I wish. Everyone – even a PPRuNe Moderator – has a price!!! I have not had contact with anyone who could be deemed “a manager in a major airline” for over 35 years.

Moderating PPRuNe is not a precise art and indeed, any two Moderators (and there are around 50 PPRuNe Moderators) may take an entirely different view of a post or a thread and may react differently. However, PPRuNe is not a democracy, it is a privately owned discussion forum for professional pilots and the owners total support Moderator's decisions.

Any moderating action taken in Dunnunda forum by myself and my Mod colleagues is due to the fact the post is in contravention of the rules, is un-related to professional pilots, has little merit or is totally trivial.

One thread I closed last evening was nothing more than a “chat” thread; most posts were pointless and had no merit.

I closed the Indonesian crash thread as it had degenerated into the usual pointless argument of accident cause by arm chair experts and the usual journo bashing. When further news of substance and merit becomes available feel free to start a new thread.

One user was given a seven day “vacation” yesterday after his third attempt at “outing” another user and continual flaming. I'm sure he would not agree with my decision but I really won't lose any sleep over it! :ok:

Rumours of some substance and reality will be accepted. Outrageous and highly improbable rumours and wind ups will be removed. General questions and matters regarding GA and flying training will be moved from R&N to GA and Questions.

Nurse, please dispense more reality pills to some of our users!!! :}

[Buster Hyman]

I have no problems with your moderating Tail Wheel, but who are those two blokes behind you in the sunnies?:ooh:

[lowerlobe]

Tail Wheel…I would have thought by my post that that was exactly what I was saying.

Nothing is certain but I meant that I doubted that any airline or company would approach a public forum and try to pressure them.

As far as my second quote is concerned my point was not that of monetary influence but one of literary pressure. By using argumentative posts they can hope to inflame the debate and having the thread closed!

I’m sure that there are those here who are not crew and do not want to see and criticism of the management and so are very happy to see it shut down by the moderator.

[tipsy2]

Moderating PPRuNe is not a precise art and indeed, any two Moderators (and there are around 50 PPRuNe Moderators) may take an entirely different view of a post or a thread and may react differently.
Yeah we know:=
Standards are of more that a passing interest to any professional (and that includes pilots!)
Well said "Jet_A_Knight"
Tipsy
IC scratch post & litter tray

[tail wheel]

Dunno Buster. But if they cross my palm with a nice brown paper parcel of unmarked bills, I could arrange "preferential status"! :} :}

But I think it's only The Cook in mufti!! :ugh:

Indeed, for 0.01% of what the QF executives will make if the takeover succeeds, I could even arrange for some nice things to be said about the QF CEO and his mates!!! :} :}

I may add, the vast majority of our PPRuNe Dunnunda users add real value and professionalism to our forums. Even the ones that follow strange footy codes!

Tipsy, it wasn't a Dunnunda Mod you crossed. := Besides, if it was one of the Dunnunda Mods you would stop plying us with beer every time we meet!!! :}

[B A Lert]

Even the ones that follow strange footy codes!

Geeeeez! And I always thought that the only footy played in Oz was with a Sherrin: there's something to be learned from PPRUNE every day.;) ;)

[Judicium Dei]

Goodness?
Ummm extraordinary thread creep. Perhaps I wasn't clear (intentionally admittedly). Read the key words and the clues. Perhaps even an outing for those who don't get out much and really really should (again avoid the literal sense).

Have a nice Dei. (sorry, sorry sorry).

[tail wheel]

Dei

About the only part of your posts I understand is your user name (http://www.lectlaw.com/def/j048.htm) which, I may add, should be my user name, not yours!

Now, would you care to sober up and explain the purpose of this thread? Or should I close the thread as just another of those meaningless, trivial threads I close or remove from time to time?

Age. Fac ut gaudeam!

Absit invidia. :ok:

Tail Wheel
PPRuNum Dei

[Howard Hughes]

Pity you didn't think of it first then...:}

I'm with you though Taily all I get is his user name...;)
Sadly I had to Google to get in on the joke.

[Jet_A_Knight]

Just to clarify, what I said was in the broader context of our 'democracy'.

As far as Prune is concerned, it's Danny's bat and ball, and the mods do as they are empowered to do.

You either accept that or you don't.

[Judicium Dei]

Tail Wheel, do as you must; beer beckons.

To relieve some frustration with interpretation (as I have said before, those who know, will understand these things and as such will understand the oblique references - help me here guys).

Let me simplify only one relevant part and perhaps we can invoke, incite or invite a few more neurons to fire across the ethersphere.

Can employers legally threaten employees to stop submitting information/rumours on PPRuNe? (The co-lateral issue may emerge).

Handing over. Do your wurst (sic).

[Howard Hughes]

I would say they can't stop people submitting information/rumours, they can however stop them submitting them whilst at work!:ok:

[Dick N. Cider]

I dunno about you guys but here in ATC land some of our managers only know what's happenening by reading about it only Pprune! don't let the only real information flow dry up now.

DNC

[tobzalp]

Makes me recall an Ops Supervisor of mine from the days before banishment to the land of the night time sun. He didn't know anything full stop! Apart from how to wear loud shirts.;)

[Buster Hyman]

Even the ones that follow strange footy codes!Right. I take exception to that & feel I must draw the line!

It is everyones right to enjoy their sport, no matter what the code & I feel that comment is unbecoming of a Moderator. Granted, NSW & QLD are Australia's "Sheltered workshop", but they have a right to enjoy stupid sports, just like the Kiwi's!!!:suspect:

[tail wheel]

Can employers legally threaten employees to stop submitting information/rumours on PPRuNe?

Well, yes they can - threaten.

We at PPRuNe love exposing them - and we've exposed a few over the years!!! :ok: Ditto employers who don't feel obliged to adequately remunerate their employees. Perhaps that is why spineless employers don't contact us as we usually try to make their day!! :}

I see you have my contact details - indeed, I've replied at length to your PM.

But I'm still none the wiser!!! :confused: :confused: :ugh:

Tail Wheel

[Contract Con]

*Thread drift*

Gday Tail Wheel,

Have you identified yourself as a Hobbit(little person, big hairy feet. AKA Kiwi) with your use of the term "Mufti"

I notice you have yourself listed in Aus.??

Cheers,

Con:ok: (in middle earth for now)

[tail wheel]

Con. Me - a Kiwi???? PPRuNers have been banished for less!! No Mate - I'm a born and bred genuine Aussie! :ok: And I shall remind you of that next time I see you!!! := (Now, that has got you wondering, hasn't it?)

I used the term "mufti" in very general terms. The Cook seems to change 20 times per day. We were talking the other day, told her when I get old I don't want to be dependent upon electronic devises and fed on fluids. So she turned the TV off and threw out my beer!!! :{Women!!! :mad:

Buster, you know the good thing about aerial ping-pong? It keep the Victorians and Taswegians occupied so they don't come up here and drink our beer!!! :}

[remoak]

Tailwheel old bean

n ten years association with PPRuNe (since the days of one forum and the daily email of posts!) I am unaware of any airline company which has “pressured” PPRuNe. I don’t think the larger airlines really care what is posted on PPRuNe – after all, PPRuNe is not generally read by either their passengers or share holders!

Hmmm.

Well, I too have been PPRuNe-ing since the very early days (and that is a lot more than ten years ago), and can think of more than one occasion when an airline has attempted to pressure Danny. The one I worked for was about to try it before we talked the Ops Director out of it, and I'm pretty sure that Ryanair have had a go too. There have certainly been others, if you go back far enough, you will find plenty of posts by Danny telling us all to behave because he has just had a snot-o-gram from some airline legal department. I'm certain that has happened in Dununder too, but I can't recall when.

BTW that doesn't mean that PPRuNe caved to pressure.

And, of course, it was often the case that anything posted that was even vaguely critical of Astraeus, disappeared very quickly indeed. I'm sure you know why.

Airlines most assuredly DO care what is posted on PPRuNe. Not because of passengers or shareholders (although tons of pax read these pages). No, they care because the PRESS read these pages very carefully indeed, and who wants a reporter trying to turn a molehill into a mountain? I know one or two journalists, and they watch this forum very carefully.

Any moderating action taken in Dunnunda forum by myself and my Mod colleagues is due to the fact the post is in contravention of the rules, is un-related to professional pilots, has little merit or is totally trivial.

Unfortunately, the last two categories are completely subjective, and have been used as the justification for muzzling one or two individuals with valid issues or concerns (not on Dunnunder AFAIK). No, it isn't a democracy, but the use of the word "professional" in the title implies a certain level of fairness and even-handedness on the part of the management (which, 99% of the time, is what we have).

Anyway... all good fun. The lack of a Kiwi mod is a serious omission though... :=:=:=

[Buster Hyman]

don't come up here and drink our beer!
Beer? Is that what you call it?:yuk::hmm:

[tail wheel]

remoak
"BTW that doesn't mean that PPRuNe caved to pressure."

Yes, you are correct. There have been a number of legal letters and a few Summonses sprayed around over the years and if posts have contravened libel laws, they have been removed.

I only wish PPRuNe users were more conscious of our legal obligations before they hit the "Submit Reply" button! :{

Buster. Your taste buds are so jaded that drinking our beer would be cream to the pigs!! :}

[haughtney1]

Being a PPrune cadet....a former employee of said airline Ashtrays are us....and a Kiwi....does that get me moderated?????
:E :ok: :p

Remoak.....do qualify as a Kiwi yet? (meaning do you have an unzud aceent yet?)

[remoak]

Mate, I'm as Kiwi as the day is long. I may have spent 20 years flying the Euro skies, but I still know how to find Taihape!

[tail wheel]

Or the Huapai Hilton!!! :} :}

[haughtney1]

What about the Coroglen Castle?

Or my particular favourite, the garden bar at the Sir George Grey in Russell:ok:

(sorry Remoak mate, I forgot:}...plus I'm in a state of depression that I've had to cancel my NZ visit next month due to an impending property transaction)