Taxes

[MyData]

Hi all.

Quick question - is there a web site that details the taxes / tariffs for passengers for various airlines / countries?

Have just booked a first return MAN->FRA->BKK using my Star Alliance points.

'Tax' was quoted at £232.20 which I thought was rather excessive!

Under Greedy Gordon's new mandate I thought that business class charges in EU were only £20 (MAN->FRA is business). So that leaves £212.20 to account for.

Do I get taxed on my return inbound flight to the UK? What are the taxes for flying into/out of Germany? Is there a massive tax on arrival in Thailand?

[Cyrano]

First thing to understand is that "tax" is a bit of a misnomer. It's really "tax plus whatever other costs we can manage to unbundle and lay on the passengers." Ryanair has led the way in rebranding this as pure "tax" - in fact the government only gets a relatively small part of it, recent APD increases notwithstanding.

A big chunk of the extra costs is likely to be a fuel surcharge, which varies from carrier to carrier (and LH's is pretty steep IIRC). Some carriers (Ryanair as the prime example) also add on their inflated version of "airport charges", "credit card fees", "wheelchair levy" etc. (on which the airline makes a profit - do a search on previous threads here).

Because so many of these surcharges are carrier-specific it's difficult to provide a general breakdown - but if you make a dummy booking on the carrier's website, quite often - before you actually have to put a credit card number in - there'll be an opportunity to get an itemised breakdown of the different charges.

[Tolsti]

There is a departure tax from BKK. It used to be 500Bht but has now risen to 700Bht. If your ticket was issued after 01/02/07 then it should be included in your ticket. If purchased prior to 01/02/07 then you will have to pay it prior to going through to departure Passport control. There is no arrival tax but make sure you keep the stub of your boarding card as the arrival Immigration will want to see it. If you pop it in your passport when you get on the plane it will save you time at immigration.

[gdiphil]

I have found it cheaper on many occasions to buy a ticket rather than use frequent flyer points. The most recent example of this was a BA LGW-GLA return ticket. I wanted to use Airmiles but if I had done so the "taxes" came to more than the BA.com ticket I subsequently bought (which included "taxes"). As a lawyer I am beginning to think it is time to have some legal fun with this by making a report to local trading standards people, and/or to the Office of Fair Trading and perhaps throw in the CAA, the EU Commission and maybe even the Dept of Trade.

[MyData]

gdiphil - point taken. We've stopped using our miles for local (EU) flights, it is perversely cheaper in some cases to book directly and pay full fare. For a long haul trip though we still can't beat the price we pay for 1st class flights by using points. I just did a quick search on Expedia, for the flights we have booked we are paying less than 15% of the quoted price - taxes included.

It would be interesting if you were to raise this with the relevant bodies - I'm sure that some means of justifying the prices could be found though.

[Hartington]

Tax breakdown:
TAX 80.00GB - UK APD
TAX 12.70UB - UK Airport specific charge
TAX 4.60DE - German Security charge
TAX 16.00RA - German Passenger Service Charge
TAX 10.70TS - Thailand Passenger Service Charge
TAX 108.60YQ - LH Imposed fuel and/or insurance charge

[PAXboy]

gdiphil I would gladly join an informal research team on this. Last year, I was making a 5-day extended weekend trip to Holland with a friend. I intended to use AirMiles (the company of that name) and compared with BA for the self same rotations. Naturally, I found the same problem.

I emailed A.M. for a breakdown of the charges (without explaining why) but it was an inconclusive reply that did not break it down in sufficient detail. Largely using the "We have to do what the airlines/airport/govt tell us" excuse. I booked with EZY and paid less.

I have stopped collecting AMs and will use them up at some time but, in the past two years, I have priced several trips of short/medium and long haul and they NEVER stack up as being good value. At one time they used to be but they appear to have reached the usual level of complacency/arrogance.


If we think about the way in which a consumer based information project on the web and word of mouth has led to banks having to refund false charges ... what chance we can start one for add-on charges by agents and rebookers?

My guess is that airlines are going to be fairly 'clean' on this as they set the charge and if you don't like it then you don't fly but the problem is companies lower on the food chain that have to pass on those charges and inflate them as there is no simple place to compare and reconcile. Given that 99% of flights are now bookable on line, we can gather data for separate 'flights' that are operated on identical rotations by a range of agents and compare them on line. The fees, surcharges and taxes SHOULD be identical.

The only obligation of the web site is to provide a Click Here box to see the breakdown but the breakdowns vary from one to another and they ought to be identical. Some agents do not tell you which flight number you are on when preparing the booking and that is sufficient for me not to book with them.

Lastly, the surcharge for using a credit card - this also varies enormously. Some charge per booking and some per seat. It can be £1.50 and it can be £3.00. The companies will say that they get different fees from the card companies and that the fee they pay is confidential and we know that the overall cost of some LoCos is still lower than the legacy carriers and so people will travel BUT isn't it worth a shot?

[gdiphil]

Paxboy. You clearly do what I do when booking a flight. I open a lot of windows with different on line retailers and compare, and in particular compare with the airline offering the same seat. I just wonder if all that is going on is simple capitalism. Each seller is trying it on and if it works then it is market forces in operation. What gets me going is the lack of breakdown of charges. Each site describes extras but each site is not using the same terminology so making it impossible to compare like with like. Hence one has to look at the airline's final price in order to get the one true overall comparison. It is the lack of transparency which is the problem. One other thing I've noticed is the tendency of some sites to put in, and here I quote from my next booking to SYD using Airline Network "Airline Failure Protection £5.00" which I had no option but to buy. I've not looked at the law on whether or not this is a legal requirement on all of us to purchase, but tie-in arrangements are generally speaking illegal. They are anti-competitive and the competition authorities can get very hot under the collar over them. Not all sites put this in and of course don't charge. Alternatively it may be it is required by law but it is not transparent on other sites and so once again a cause for consumer complaint. I notice on this QF ticket's invoice I've bought from Airline Network that they give some breakdown of the overall price. They of course tell me the fare the airline is charging but then there is "Adult Tax + Airline Fees". Once again a cause for complaint. Tax is a fact of life these days when buying air tickets but let's have breakdown. Perhaps if I flew with QF via BKK rather than SIN it would be cheaper by a few pounds. In other words the tax becomes part of the competitive pricing structure and in my view should be broken down to enable the consumer to judge whether or not they are getting the deal they want. Of course the phrase "Airline Fees" is the real mystery. If the airline is charging fees for a service, then I have to ask do I want that service? If I have to have it why is it not part of, and here I quote again from Airline Network's invoice the "International Adult Fare"? Once again perhaps the fees are cheaper if I fly from or through or to a different destination (a bit difficult for SYD I know but you can see what I mean). All this demonstrates a lack of transparency. So, what to do. You have suggested an informal research group. What do you have in mind and for what purpose? Am I right to make the assumption that you like me want more transparency to enable a more informed choice and to put pressure on regulatory authorities?

[smith]

I was looking to book using BA miles a trip to Orlando, the taxes were quoted as £160ish. I could have got a return ticket on the same flight for about £309, so after spending £20k on my credit card to earn the points I was only recieving £150 discount, hardly worth it. In the end I have booked business class one way, ticket price £2,978 (I only had to pay £157 tax though)and booked Flyglobespan business class on my return $529.

At least I feel I have earned someting now, so am getting a business class round trip from GLA-Florida for £400ish, cant be bad.:}

[chippy63]

Paxboy,
You can use your airmailes on hotels- I got some good overnight stays in the Middle east earlier this year.