IR Conversion From FAA To JAA?

[Tony_Soprano17]

Hey everyone new to this site, having a good look around some very useful topics.

Anyway here is my question, i have been researching into doing training abroad (america) to get to the frozen jaa atpl stage. However in the training u are receive a faa ir than u get an ir conversion, some people i have talked to have said that ir conversions are a very grey area and that is hould be very careful here. Something about that they are not seen in the highest regard. Could anyway shed any light on this it would be very helpul.

Thanks in advance
Tony Soprano17

[Whopity]

Converting the IR is very straight forward, you pass the JAA exams and do an abrieviated course of flight training to pass the flight test. The minimum hours to do this is 15 however budget for 25 hours in a twin.

[Ulv]

I agree with Whopity, that it's pretty straight forward, and that 25 hours would be the reallistic number. I'm doing the FAA ME-IR as we speak, and I'm very happy about my choice at this time. By doing the FAA ME-IR you get so to speak the best of both worlds and it might take some of the pressure off your shoulders, doing your JAA ME-IR, since you'll have more multi engine experience. Beware though, and I'm sure you'll bump into this situation eventually, the CAA must according to the LASORS accept any conversion course approved by the CAA of the issuing state, but as an example it is known that the CTC Wings programme only accept UK CAA issued conversions, so it might be a bit tricky depending of your choice of career. If anyone outthere has experience doing converion courses, especially in Spain, I too would greatly appreciate some comments and advice. Best of luck!

[bfato]

Beware though, and I'm sure you'll bump into this situation eventually, the CAA must according to the LASORS accept any conversion course approved by the CAA of the issuing state, but as an example it is known that the CTC Wings programme only accept UK CAA issued conversions, so it might be a bit tricky depending of your choice of career. If anyone outthere has experience doing converion courses, especially in Spain, I too would greatly appreciate some comments and advice.

Just out of interest, is there any difference in the details written in your licence if you convert from an ICAO IR rather than do a JAA IR from scratch? Can anyone tell from looking at the "ratings to be revalidated list" that you chose to do the bulk of your training abroad in an aircraft rather than in the UK in a sim?

Even if so, I'm surprised they're treated differently since, in both cases, you have to pass all the exams and the initial skills test. Some have opined that the Spanish initial skills test is less of a stretch than the British, but that's a different issue.

[Whopity]

but as an example it is known that the CTC Wings programme only accept UK CAA issued conversions

The CTC wings course is a complete modular training package from zero to MPA Type rating; you may get credit for a PPL, but they won't let you join in the middle so conversions don't come into it.

[Curtis E Carr]

bfato

In the ratings section of your licence, it will simply say "Instrument" i.e no indication as to how it was achieved.

[Ulv]

"The CTC wings course is a complete modular training package from zero to MPA Type rating; you may get credit for a PPL, but they won't let you join in the middle so conversions don't come into it".

You are quite right about the Wings Cadet scheme programme, but I was refferring to the Wings ATP, where you jump in at the Intermediate stage for the AQC.

http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/0404.html

The problem as I see it, is rumours like

Some have opined that the Spanish initial skills test is less of a stretch than the British, but that's a different issue.

because allthough the tests are the same, and it basically just cuts off some of the required hours of the IR, it allows for speculations as to whether the Spanish CAA and the Spanish Flight Schools (any other than the UK schools) are really up to speed considering quality and requirements towards the conversion. Personally, I simply do not want to spend a fortune on multi hours and accomodation and expenses in the UK, and I'm also really happy about the quality of my FAA ME-IR training. We all have different paths towards getting the required licenses and I am very happy about my choice, since it is going to get me more licenses and thereby hopefully better pilot skills, more multi engine time and a better chance of getting a 1st time pass on the very important and also extremely expensive JAA ME-IR.
I hope that eventually, when you have passed this early step in your carreer, you will find out that, it does not matter too much, where you got your licenses as long as you hold all of them issued by a JAA state.

Still I'm very much interested in opinions and experience in the matter...

[bfato]

Ulv, I think you're confusing two different things.

i). Doing an ICAO IR (eg FAA) and then converting it to JAA
ii). Doing a JAA IR from scratch in a country other than the UK.

The original poster is asking about (i). No-one is saying anything derogatary about the standards required to convert (in a given country) compared to learning from scratch (in the same country).

When you came on and appeared to be posting about (ii), I made a comment summarising others' opinions previously posted on pprune. The original poster had, after all, asked about the regard conversions were held in. My comment was to illustrate that the JAA country of issue, rather than conversion or direct qualification, is seen as a factor by some people.

FWIW, I agree with your second post. I'm booked to do my FAA IR in June, JAA in July.

[Ulv]

I know what you mean excactly. My intensions where merely to give Tony Soprano17 my personal view of why people seem to warn you about the conversions, the grey area of the IR conversions. Are there any factual concequences in doing the conversion course? I think and I hope not, but anyways good luck yourself on your conversions;)

[stefair]

Hi all,

I understand this topic has been discussed here on countless occasions but still I cannot find any reliable figures as to how many hours of training are needed on average to convert a FAA IR to JAA.

LASORS states that a ICAO IR holder would have to receive a minimum of flying instruction of 15 hours prior to taking the IR skills test. I find this pretty tempting as it seems to offer some serious savings. Numerous posts here however indicate that most people require way more hours. In fact, I have been recently told by a chief flight instructor that the average student takes twice as much which would make that route even more expensive than going JAA right from the start. So, to get a more trustworthy figure it would be great if those of you who have done a FAA-IR-to-JAA conversion could state how many hours you needed.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help! :ok:

[ItsAjob]

15 hours is a doddle as long as you are current and have been trained to a high standard in the US.
After all, its all you can eat approaches in the US, so get as much practice as you can for free.

[stefair]

Something important I forgot to ask:

Assuming having passed the FAA IR skills test and returned to the UK could I then start the conversion right away or would I have to wait for the FAA to issue me with the license? I have once read that conversion is a long-lasting, nail-biting process?

I am asking as wondering what would be the right moment to do the IR training over there, this summer before starting on my ATPLs, or after passing the first module, or after when all is done?

If having to wait for much paper work to come through I think I would be better off by doing it before the ATPLs as I could use the time needed for working on my ATPLs. On the other hand, doing the FAA IR this summer then studying the ATPLs and then doing the conversion will leave me with a 8-months-or-probably-longer break where I will forget about a lot of stuff which is likely to up the total price again.

Any thoughts in this as well? Thanks very much!!!

[ItsAjob]

My advise would be to sit the ATPLs first then do the FAA IR and coversion in one.
As far as paperwork, I done all the JAR skills tests on my temporary FAA ticket, but you can't submit it to the CAA untill the permanent one comes in the post.